Parabolic blades experience?

[Debbie S]

I'm thinking of getting the parabolic blades when I get new MK Professionals. The parabolic option doesn't cost that much more for those particular blades, and anything that improves my edges, turns, and spins (like the promotional copy for parabolic blades claims) would be welcome. But I'd like to hear from people who have tried them (or know people who have), if they actually make a difference. How long was the adjustment process?

I'm a Pre-Bronze skater (hoping to make it to Bronze any year now :) ) so I haven't even gotten all of my singles yet. Most of the discussion I've read on this forum (searching back through the old threads) was geared to high-level blades and higher level skaters. Would parabolics even be a good idea for someone at my level?

[Casey]

My skate fitter (a very good ice dancer) currently skates on parabolics. He says that they have pros and cons - you get an advantage on certain things but other things become more difficult. He said that he would discourage anybody lower than Novice level from purchasing them. FWIW.

[sunshinepointe]

I have parabolics - I don't test so I can't tell you what level I'm at, but I'm working on all jumps through the lutz and all spins up to the camel and layback.

Anywho, I don't notice a difference between these and other blades. Whatever *bonus* you get with them is negligible I think...maybe thats just me though :)

[mikawendy]

My skate fitter (a very good ice dancer) currently skates on parabolics. He says that they have pros and cons - you get an advantage on certain things but other things become more difficult. He said that he would discourage anybody lower than Novice level from purchasing them. FWIW.

What does he say the cons are? I've heard about the advantages but it would be interesting to hear what he thinks are more difficult with the blades....

[Casey]

What does he say the cons are? I've heard about the advantages but it would be interesting to hear what he thinks are more difficult with the blades....
It's been a while but I believe what was said is that spins were harder...and err...something else...but I think he said that on the other hand his edges were better now. As an ice dancer, it was overall a good thing but he seemed a bit hesitant with a definitive judgement. If I remember I'll ask again next time I get my skates sharpened.

[JulieN]

A gold level dancer in my area has them and claims that twizzles are much easier in them.

[stardust skies]

I think the benefits of these blades are mainly mental placebo-like effects, personally. The sport's always done fine with regular blades, the injuries etc...come from inadequate boots, there's really no need to try and add gimmicks to blades IMO.

[Casey]

I think the benefits of these blades are mainly mental placebo-like effects, personally. The sport's always done fine with regular blades, the injuries etc...come from inadequate boots, there's really no need to try and add gimmicks to blades IMO.
I wonder if you would have said the same thing if you were around back when they first added toepicks. :P

Nonetheless, I think it's best to leave the experimenting to somebody else - not to mention some of these new ideas scare me (i.e. hinged boots and Jackson Matrix blades, which just look horribly ugly and scary). I figure elite skaters have a lot more time, resources and knowledge about the subject than the average skater, so you're not going to outdo them and come out ahead by buying some expensive toy with lots of marketing dollars behind it. ;)

[techskater]

I've been on Phantom parabolics since June when I got my new boots too and I love them. Contrary to the ice dancer, I have found spins a lot easier (especially the camel spin) and turns are easier but not as noticeable as the camel spin. Your foot seems to settle over the sweet spot for spins and turns more readily like you are funneled to it. My body position itself didn't change overnight, but those elements of struggle did! I am currently an adult Gold level FS skater, so that may skew your results.

[stardust skies]

I wonder if you would have said the same thing if you were around back when they first added toepicks. :P

Nonetheless, I think it's best to leave the experimenting to somebody else - not to mention some of these new ideas scare me (i.e. hinged boots and Jackson Matrix blades, which just look horribly ugly and scary). I figure elite skaters have a lot more time, resources and knowledge about the subject than the average skater, so you're not going to outdo them and come out ahead by buying some expensive toy with lots of marketing dollars behind it. ;)

Okay, I mean blades have been fine since I've been alive, then. ;) Obviously skates have come a long way since the beginning of figure skating, but like everything else, I think we've sort of plateau-ed. It's fine though, the blades do their purpose IMO.

[crayonskater]

Aren't they harder to sharpen, too?

[sunshinepointe]

^ no, you sharpen them just like you do regular blades. In all honesty the "parabolic" state of them isn't really that significant.

[Casey]

It's tapered (side-honed) blades that are more difficult to sharpen, because the edges of the blade are not perfectly square to the bottom, so the sharpener has to be more skilled at judging whether it's been sharpened squarely (because you don't want one edge higher than the other) than just slapping the blade square up against the metal.

I don't know how parabolic blades are made - if the center of the blade is thinner all the way up then the square checking method would still work, if it's done through extra side honing at the base, then you have the same issue as with regular tapered blades.

Many of the cheaper sharpeners will refuse to touch either tapered or parabolic blades, but that's fine because I wouldn't trust my blades to them regardless. Even the good sharpeners can tell when you've been to another sharpener, and will critique how the other guy affected the rocker, how the sharpening machines each do a distinct job, etc. Each seems to have a different style and some people prefer the feel of blades sharpened by one over the other. What can be said for certain is that regardless of who you choose to sharpen your blades, they'll last longer if you always have the same person do it.

Find a good sharpener you like, and stick with them. Don't be tempted by the guys that cost half as much and sharpen 3 times faster. Regardless of what type of blade you have, it will pay off. :)

[doubletoe]

I think the benefits of these blades are mainly mental placebo-like effects, personally. The sport's always done fine with regular blades, the injuries etc...come from inadequate boots, there's really no need to try and add gimmicks to blades IMO.

Is that an assumption you are making, or have you tried them and compared?

[dooobedooo]

Is that an assumption you are making, or have you tried them and compared?

Give the girl a break. We all know that she is an advanced competitive skater who trains alongside top skaters and knows what she's talking about.

My feeling - and no, I haven't tried them because I'm happy with straight edge blades, and don't want to waste time and money trying - is that parabolic blades are a fashion issue, deriving from the ski industry.

10 to 20 years ago, recreational skis were very long, narrow and stiff, derived from downhill racer skis - standard length about 180 to 200 cm, I was skiing on 190 cm. Of course skis have always had a waist with a slight parabolic shape, but then someone worked out that it would be much easier for beginners to turn the skis if this waist was narrow, and the tips wider. Hey presto - parabolic skis were invented, which became carvers. Now ski rental shops try to put me into skis with a max length of 170. There are now many fancy shorter skis available, many highly waisted (parabolic), with a width difference of 10 cm or more along the length.

But ski technique is different from skating, and the blades are different...

Skis - made of flexible springy moulded plastic - over 170 cm long - very waisted with very spatulate tips and narrow heels - moulded in three dimensions so that the centre of the ski is raised off the ground when the skis are flat - technique involves using that build-in spring in the skis to edge (down) and flow (rise). When you press the ski onto an edge, the flexible nature of the moulded plastic naturally takes up a tighter arc if the ski is more waisted (parabolic). Most of the ski length (160 cm plus) is in contact with the ground most of the time). 99 percent of recreational skiiers only skate intentionally in a line.

Skates - made of rigid steel - maximum length about 28 cm - straight edge ( or for fashionistas a parabolic edge with a difference of about .1 cm along the length) - curved heel-to-toe along the bottom with a rocker under the ball of the foot - technique involves utilising the rocker with a change of weight from heel to toe (along with complex use of ankle flex, knee bend, body weight, hip rotation, upper body rotation). Only about 1.5 cm of the skate length is in contact with the ground all the time. Furthermore, the weight can be at any point on the blade at any time depending on the move (so where do you position the waist for a parabolic blade????!!!!). 99 percent of recreational skaters want to spin, jump, drag, hop and move backwards.

A bit different, huh ....
:??

:idea:
A question for stardust and any others - do you know any competitive skaters who skate on parabolics and prefer them?

[russiet]

[QUOTE=dooobedooo]... is that parabolic blades are a fashion issue, deriving from the ski industry.

10 to 20 years ago, recreational skis....
But ski technique is different from skating....

Skis - made of flexible springy moulded plastic...
Skates - made of rigid steel -

A bit different, huh ....
:??

QUOTE]

Well said.

[Casey]

Give the girl a break. We all know that she is an advanced competitive skater who trains alongside top skaters and knows what she's talking about.
I agree with the feeling and assessment in your post, but I don't think doubletoe meant any insult by their post - it was just a question as to whether stardust had arrived at her conclusion (which was clearly phrased as just being her personal opinion) either from her own experiences, or by assumption based on things she's seen and heard from other skaters. 8-)

[Isk8NYC]

Casey -

When are you going to start your own pro shop? You're very knowledgeable about blades, sharpening, fitting, etc. I think you'd be great at putting people int the right skates and keeping them in good condition!

[stardust skies]

Is that an assumption you are making, or have you tried them and compared?

It is just an assumption, which is why I started with "I think". :) I have never tried them, but I have a lot of friends who have and who could honestly not tell the difference between regulars and parabolic- and they're much better skaters than me so if they can't tell then I probably won't, either. The concensus with the blades through the people I know is: not good, not bad, just no difference whatsoever. That's why I said that. I could be wrong though, it's just what I think based on other people's experiences.

Give the girl a break. We all know that she is an advanced competitive skater who trains alongside top skaters and knows what she's talking about.

A question for stardust and any others - do you know any competitive skaters who skate on parabolics and prefer them?

Thank you so much for saying that, although just cause I can do a few more jumps and skate the high sessions doesn't mean I'm always right....veryyyy far from it. If I felt I had nothing to learn I wouldn't be here :D I don't think doubletoe was saying it in a mean way, but I appreciate your response a lot either way!!

As for your question...I don't know anyone who's stuck with parabolics. I know a couple coaches who have 'em but never really skate freestyle anymore- and they were all pretty disappointed that they felt the same as regular blades, since they'd been so hyped up. All the elites at my rink use regular Gold Seals, save for a couple rebels who use Phantoms, and one guy who has Pattern 99's.

[crayonskater]

Most of the former competitive skaters (Novice & Junior) that I know didn't use parabolics, and my skate shop seems to think that they're mostly gimmick; they might work for some people, but it's going to be the sort of teeny difference important to an elite skater, and not so much for a beginner/lower-level type.

[diagetus]

CASEY-It's tapered (side-honed) blades that are more difficult to sharpen, because the edges of the blade are not perfectly square to the bottom, so the sharpener has to be more skilled at judging whether it's been sharpened squarely (because you don't want one edge higher than the other) than just slapping the blade square up against the metal.

I don't know how parabolic blades are made - if the center of the blade is thinner all the way up then the square checking method would still work, if it's done through extra side honing at the base, then you have the same issue as with regular tapered blades.

Yes, the sharpener in my town (probably the best in area) said essentially the same thing. He hates sharpening them, but a lot of the high level skaters insist on buying them. The "square checking method" Casey is refering to requires the use of a precision square. It's like a tiny little T-square ruler that can fit in the palm of your hand. You can line it up to the bottom of the blade and if a decent gap shows between the vertical edge of the precision square and the side of the blade, you have a problem. Well, you can't really use this method on the parabolics because the side edge is not straight. The sharpener might very well have done a perfect sharpening with both edges being even, but the precision square will show a gap.

Whew! That was a mouthful, does this make more sense? You almost have to see it to really understand it. Just ask your friendly neighborhood sharpener and they can show you.

[Casey]

When are you going to start your own pro shop? You're very knowledgeable about blades, sharpening, fitting, etc. I think you'd be great at putting people int the right skates and keeping them in good condition!
Haha, thank you for the compliment! But though I have done a considerable amount of research on blade properties and sharpening and stuff in the past, my knowledge is rather limited (hence the disclaimers). A lot of it boils down to opinion and preference, and that's where people like stardust skies come in most handy. :D

It would make a lovely job though, to fund the skating! :lol:

[InlineUnited]

As far as dance blades go, I've had my parabolics for almost 2 competitive seasons and here's my opinions, keeping in mind that as someone previously mentioned these blades may not be best for skaters below a novice competitive level.

The biggest thing I noticed is how long I can go between sharpenings, as well as how easy it is to skate after a sharpening. I regularly go 2+ months without a sharpening and honestly don't notice a ton of stability issues. After a sharpening, if done properly, there's none of that first day on a fresh sharpening "bite" I found with normal parallel blades.

Also, deep edges are a bit more stable, with more weight being to the center of the blade, and I *surprisingly* found twizzles to be easier on my parabolics.

The big downside is finding someone to sharpen parabolic blades *properly*. They are more difficult to sharpen, they take longer to sharpen, and a poor sharpening will give you BIG problems. (I couldn't hold an outside edge, whether all on it's own or even in a crossover in a stroking exercise, for the longest time until I switched to a different person for my sharpenings.)

So make sure you get someone who knows they can do parabolic blades properly.

[Casey]

I regularly go 2+ months without a sharpening and honestly don't notice a ton of stability issues.
I do that too, and skate 10-20+ hours a week. Did you upgrade blades significantly when you changed to parabolics as well? I believe it has to do with a higher quality steel being used in the more expensive blades.

After a sharpening, if done properly, there's none of that first day on a fresh sharpening "bite" I found with normal parallel blades.
That's entirely based on the sharpening job as far as I know. A very soft finishing stone can be run along the blade to reduce/eliminate that first day feeling of extra bite.

[stardust skies]

That's entirely based on the sharpening job as far as I know. A very soft finishing stone can be run along the blade to reduce/eliminate that first day feeling of extra bite.

Agreed. And if you have a good sharpener, you will NEVER get first day awkwardness. I used to dread getting my skates sharpened until I found the right person. Now, even if I go the day before a competition, there's NO problem. The only difference between before and after sharpenings is that my edges feel better.

[crayonskater]

Yup, that's true. My coach can put an edge on so all that you notice is that your edges are more secure. And I have entry level Mirages.