The Galaxy Saga Episode 4 - Mounting the Blades

[SkatingOnClouds]

WooHoo!!! I finally got to skate in these boots. And they fit pretty well. Still some tight spots, but they'll soon wear in.

Today I had just the 4 screws in the slotted holes in each blade. I started off following the MK blade mounting instructions, got my husband to do the temporary mount for me. True to the style of this story, it's going to take time to get this right.

I got the left foot how I wanted pretty quick, but not the right. My coach had a look, and reckoned both blades needed to be further to the inside. Now the right blade feels good, and the left feels horrible. The problem is that the blade doesn't feel like it's under my foot properly.

My coach reckons it could be because I am used to wearing ill-fitting boots and badly mounted (by me) blades, and that I would adapt. But if I'm not comfortable, if the edges aren't running smoothly and it doesn't feel right, then to me, it isn't right.

So now I welcome thoughts on this, and advice on how best to get the blades right for me.

Another thing, my ankles wobble. Not a problem I had with the ankle crushing Altamuras, but certainly did with the Jacksons. I have decided it is probably because although I'm a big fat woman, my legs are quite skinny above the ankle.

I'm thinking about wearing some sort of padding above the ankle to pad the boot out a bit. Anyone else have this problem, any suggested solutions?

Karen

(for those about to suggest taking them to the pro shop, read previous episodes about there not being one here)

[Skate@Delaware]

My daughter wears the bunga ankle sleeves. Another suggestion for her was to slip on the wide wristbands that tennis players wear-to cushion the area (she was getting blisters from her Gams). Either of these might work for you.

I have lace bite at the front of my ankles (I wear Jacksons), so I slip in the 1/2 sole gel pads made by Dr. Scholls for dress shoes; much cheaper than bungas and I needed something right away (my pro-shop doesn't carry anything if it isn't hockey).

Hope this helps, I'm sure you will get lots more advice!

[Elsy2]

If it doesn't feel right it probably isn't. It's not unusual to have different positioning of blades on the right and left. Since the left felt good before you moved it more inside, have hubby shift it slightly back. Make adjustments very small, and do give yourself a chance to adjust. Getting it right is such a trial and error. Keep trying until feel comfortable.

Bunga sleeves are the way to go. If I have additional sore spots, I slip cosmetic sponges under the bunga sleeve. This will take up some of the room if you need the extra padding.

[Skate@Delaware]

I'm also playing the blade alignment game (along with 3 others at my rink). I bought another pair of skates off Ebay and although the boots fit great, the blades aren't lined up correctly for me. I've scooted them to the inside a bit, but I don't have time to mess with them right now (Christmas show practice takes up most of my time, work and sewing costumes takes up the rest). I'm hoping to have them right by the end of the year. Then I can skate in them. For now, I'm skating in my old skates. :cry:

My coach has been skating in hers that have been out of alignment for years. They have never been quite right. It's even worse if you have ankle problems like supination or pronation. My daughter pronates and hers is bad, but she still manages to land her jumps, but her edges are awful! She will be getting an orthotic in about two months and I'm hoping it won't mess her up too bad (she is doing some small competitions starting in February).

I was wondering: are you ankles wobbling because the amount of support is different in the new boots? Is the height of the boot different? It's hard to tell from the picture.

[SkatingOnClouds]

My ankles wobbled like this in the Jacksons. I thought that it wouldn't happen in the Grafs because they have more support and hug my foot better.

It is a sideways motion. As I stand on them, I can wiggle my feet from side to side quite a lot. I have the laces pulled as tight as I can physically pull them, but there is still a lot of wiggle.

My coach reckons that time will see the top of the boots hugging around my leg better, and that will cure it. To tell the truth, I've been so focussed on getting the boots to fit over my bunions that I haven't worked on other aspects of fit.

In my old Altamuras, I used to wear the tennis player sweatbands around my leg above the ankle, but that was to even out the ankle-crushing pressure. Maybe it will be as simple as cutting off a pair of my husband's explorer socks to make sleeves like that again until the boots do hug better.

With the blade positioning, I have always had the left and right different, it is my coach who doesn't think they should be. I think though that maybe she hasn't had that many adult students with their accummulated sporting injuries (hockey, soccer and skating, as well as that unfortunate incident when I was trying to show off how close I could come to doing the splits, and tore a muscle :oops: ) and the like.

I am going to get it so it feels right for me. Is there anything in particular I should be looking for, like scraping on certain 3 turns or anything like that?

Karen

"too old to die young" - Billy Connolly

[Elsy2]

I wouldn't say scraping is the clue, usually that is no knee bend (which may be a problem in skates that are new). For me it was struggling to maintain an edge on a simple 3-turn though.....one ankle bone would start to have more pressure on it than usual and would ache. I just knew things weren't balanced. I can tell doing inside and outside edges on the line.

[Skate@Delaware]

My left and right are slightly different-mostly because of the way my body carries itself (due to alignment from several auto accidents and a problem hip).

I can tell they are perfect now when doing one-foot glides; at first, I was having severe problems....I would glide and without moving my body, I would go off on a curve! Now I can glide and go straight. I also don't have to "adjust" my body to compensate for a poorly adjusted blade (which can cause you to have to lean in or out). Sheesh! Talk about learning more than you really wanted to!

My Jacksons are a bit big in the ankle also (but my pads take up the room), as well as being a bit stiff-even laced up all the way, I haven't been able to bend in them at all even though I have tried! I did write to Jackson Co. and was told the line was "re-designed" in structure and sizing.....which is why my boots are a bit too big and stiff (much stiffer than I like). I'm still not lacing them up to the top hook but I can still do my little jumps and spin in them :lol:

[SkatingOnClouds]

I should have titled this thread Episode 4 - the Phantom Menace (you know, in a Galaxy far, far away.... and I seem to be far, far away from getting them right, and my blades are Phantoms. Okay, lame I know....)

Next problem. I noticed that my blades don't sit flush on the sole of the boot. The boot toe curls up slightly - which could be my fault during all the heat molding attempts, or maybe they came that way. It could also be that for 20+ years these blades were on my Altamuras, which have higher heels, I think (Bunnyhop, if you're out there, how high are your heels?). Anyway, isn't the blade is meant to sit flush, and not have to be pulled down by the screws.

I am considering adding a layer of leather to the heel to even the sole out and get the blade sitting flush. The alternative would be a shim under the toe end of the blade, but I think because I am used to the higher Altamuras, perhaps it wouldn't be such a bad thing to raise the heel slightly anyway.

Thoughts, ideas, warnings?

Karen

One day I'm going to skate.

[SkatingOnClouds]

My husband is washing his hands of the whole skate thing. He said I should get these boots to someone who knows what they are doing before I ruin them or endanger myself. Well, reality check here; he's probably right. :frus:

Shipping them off to the US to have the blades put on would be way too expensive, time-consuming, and I believe of limited benefit if I am not there with them. I don't believe the local rink or my coach can help me. I don't know about personnel at other Australian rinks. That leaves me trying to get advice on-line.

Is there someone out there who knows this stuff, or someone you guys out there trust to sort out blade fitting problems like this, who if I sent pictures of the problem to, might be willing to help to me via e-mail ???

Just stuff like the advisability of adding leather to the heel versus putting some under the toe area, or whether to try to screw the boot down onto the blade. And if I add leather to the heel, the best way to do that?

Incidentally, I measured the Graf heel against the Jacksons, and it is about a 1/4 inch lower. I have read that different brand boots have different height heels, and you can get custom heel heights, so surely I'm not the only person with this issue.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllppppppppppp!!!!! :giveup:


Karen

[jenlyon60]

Soles of most skating boots are not perfectly flat. When the skate technician I used to use mounted my blades on my current boots, he sanded the soles flat before doing the actual mounting (If you do that, I strongly suggest you waterproof the soles after the sanding and before mounting the blade)

FWIW, my former boots (same blades) had a much lower heel than my new boots. In my case, same brand, but I chose to go to a higher heel. So it shouldn't affect the blades.

Now if the blades have gotten warped somehow, that is a separate problem.

[Mrs Redboots]

Next problem. I noticed that my blades don't sit flush on the sole of the boot. The boot toe curls up slightly - which could be my fault during all the heat molding attempts, or maybe they came that way.Mine did that, and my coach fixed them for me, once I was happy with the blade placement, by the simple expedient of screwing down the two front holes of the blade. He said it was a perfectly normal thing to happen, and no fault in either boot or blade.

So get your blades adjusted to suit you (my coach fixed mine after I had grumbled very loudly, but he said he didn't really think they needed doing! I disagreed!), and then screw down the front holes. End of problem.

[TaBalie]

Whre does your coach get his/her blades mounted? There must be somebody! I would *not* do anything else yourself to the skates...

[Bunny Hop]

Next problem. I noticed that my blades don't sit flush on the sole of the boot. The boot toe curls up slightly - which could be my fault during all the heat molding attempts, or maybe they came that way. It could also be that for 20+ years these blades were on my Altamuras, which have higher heels, I think (Bunnyhop, if you're out there, how high are your heels?). Anyway, isn't the blade is meant to sit flush, and not have to be pulled down by the screws.

The heels on my Altamuras, measured at the back of the boot, are 4.7cm (just over 1.75 inches for the Americans reading). Gosh, they are quite high, aren't they! Oh, and the blades don't sit flush at the toes on them either.

Best of luck with the ongoing adjustments!

[Isk8NYC]

Before we go any further, could you take a straightedge and make sure the blades are truly aligned, please? I once had someone reuse holes and "torque" the blades front-to-back. Very interesting to have a different edge toe-to-heel and not very good for moves.

There is someone on this board who is a skate fitter/pro shop person, but his ID escapes me...

[Edited to Add]
The blade plate will sink into the boot if it's not flush now.

[SkatingOnClouds]

The blade plate will sink into the boot if it's not flush now.


I hope you mean that in a good way, not that it will bite in and give me worse problems??!

I am intrigued by the differing heel heights, and whether that makes much difference to one's skating. I have had terrible balance problems since returning to the ice after 20 years. It's hard to tell what is age, not skating for 20 years, being fatter, lousy fitting boots, lousy blade mounting, or maybe heel height as well.

Thanks everyone, from the comments here it sounds like I'm panicking over nothing, that screwing the front of the blade ought to do the job.

I won't get a chance to skate again until Saturday morning, when I hope to get both blades feeling right enough to go for the full mounting. Then I should be able to tell if the boots and blades will pull together when the front screws go in.


Karen

"Sometimes even I become bored by the soap opera that my life has become"

[jenlyon60]

A higher heel will generally put you more on the front of the blade (just like high heeled shoes). For a lot of people a higher heel also can help with increased knee bend. The side effect (besides making it easier to find the toe pick) can be in the posture. With a higher skating heel, it's much easier to be tilted forward from the hips and/or waist (voice of experience...)

Dancers in particular seem to migrate towards the higher heeled skating boots.

[Skate@Delaware]

I had a he** of a time adjusting to my skates....I have never danced and don't normally wear any heels. Wearing them on my skates was torture and I pitched forward all the time! It took several months (and toepick spills) before that was corrected! :frus:

I have taken to wearing heels at work now, and keep them the same size as my skate heels....seems to be helping (then, when I'm on break, I can practice off-ice sit-spin positioning :lol: )

[Isk8NYC]

The blade plate will sink into the boot if it's not flush now.
I hope you mean that in a good way, not that it will bite in and give me worse problems??!

It won't go throught the boot, no. LOL. That's the last thing you need, isn't it?!? Sorry to alarm you. As the blade gets screwed down tighter and tighter, the blade plate won't give way, the boot sole will get compacted. I don't think you have to worry too much about your gap. The waterproofing will protect your boot soles.

[blisspix]

Next problem. I noticed that my blades don't sit flush on the sole of the boot. The boot toe curls up slightly - which could be my fault during all the heat molding attempts, or maybe they came that way. It could also be that for 20+ years these blades were on my Altamuras, which have higher heels, I think (Bunnyhop, if you're out there, how high are your heels?). Anyway, isn't the blade is meant to sit flush, and not have to be pulled down by the screws.

That's odd... it was my altamuras that curled up slightly at the end, not the Teris so much. Don't worry about it, the new boots probably came that way. And IIRC, altamuras did have a fairly high heel.

[SkatingOnClouds]

A higher heel will generally put you more on the front of the blade (just like high heeled shoes). For a lot of people a higher heel also can help with increased knee bend. The side effect (besides making it easier to find the toe pick) can be in the posture. With a higher skating heel, it's much easier to be tilted forward from the hips and/or waist


I do wonder about this. I am 46 and fat, and my knees complain at demands to bend deeper, which means I get toe pick pushes if not really careful.
When you say higher heels help with increased knee bend, does that mean it helps you bend deeper, or that you get more bend for less knee work?
(if you know what I mean)

Karen

[jenlyon60]

A bit of both, at least for me... and I too am mid-40s and chunky with one cranky knee (torn cartilege at a minimum).

Of course I also had dance scallops added to my boots when I got them this summer, so that could be part of it.

[Isk8NYC]

Of course I also had dance scallops added to my boots when I got them this summer, so that could be part of it.

What are dance scallops? (I really never heard that term before)

[jenlyon60]

There's 2 types. One type has the leather in-between the lace holes at the ankles cut, so that the lace hole is in a U-shaped piece (connected to the main boot). See the photo on the Harlick web site (below) for a picture of a single scallop.

http://www.harlick.com/img/boots/scallup2.jpg

The other type that Klingbeil offers on their dance boot has more of a wide-U shaped cut-out with no lace hole in the middle. SP Teri also offers something similar, only in more of a V shape (see below)

http://www.spteri.com/TeriDance_image.htm

And the SP Teri cut-out is available on their super strong boots (KT-2 and KT-3)

The advantage of the scallops/cut-outs is that they enhance the bend-ability of the boot at the ankle without seriously sacrificing the boot strength in the ankle. In the past I hadn't gotten my boots with the cut-out because I was afraid it would cause the boots to break down too fast... Now having gotten it, I am of a different mind. I was able to skate comfortably in my new boots after about day 2 or 3, with the only challenge being that I switched to a higher heel with this pair, and that took getting used to.

[Skate@Delaware]

Some manufacturers call it a "flex-notch" (Jackson does).

[SkatingOnClouds]

Yesterday I had my second go at trying to get these blades right. Spending more time off ice than on.

The left is feeling good now, the right so close I am tempted to screw it down now.

Looking at the sole of the boot they look like they are too far to the inside - but when you look at the width of the whole boot, including my bunions, they appear perfectly centred.

I am holding good, strong, running edges in them without backward/forward rocking or blade stutter. My 3 turns are all working fine and I'm now able to hold the edge after the turns. One foot glides on either edge or straight, changes of edge are going fine.

Only thing I am worried about is my spins. Obviously with only the 4 screws in, I didn't go flat out at them. 2 foot spin seemed okay, a bit toey, but the only one foot spin I attempted consisted of the entry edge, followed by a horrible sideways scrape as soon as I started to turn, stopping me dead. It was like the blade just couldn't turn, it bit into the ice.

It could just be that before I was skating in boots at least 1 size too big for me, with the blade mounted in the middle of the length, but this seemed more of a sideways problem than lengthways. It isn't happening on 3 turns though.

Just want to check with you guys whether you think it could be me just not being on the right part of my blade, or likely to be a blade placement problem?

Next Saturday is our last group session for the year, more of a fun day. Maybe I should try to arrange a private session with my coach to work this out before I screw the blades down.

Karen

[Casey]

It could just be that before I was skating in boots at least 1 size too big for me, with the blade mounted in the middle of the length, but this seemed more of a sideways problem than lengthways.
Speaking lengthwise, the blade should be mounted such that the front edge of the front sole plate is right up against the front edge of the sole, regardless of where the back plate comes to - it's more important to get the rocker under the ball of the foot correctly (so as to avoid toepick mishaps and just have a generally "more correct" feel that won't hold you back). If there is more than 1/4" of space between the back edge of the sole plate and the back edge of the heel sole, then you could stand to get a longer blade, but it's probably not too critical.

[Elsy2]

There is no big rush to permanently screw your blades down. Make sure they are where you want them to be first.
I know my daughter skated for a few weeks before we put the final screws in, and she was training at a fairly high level. Doubles and flying spins......

After permanently screwing them on, we checked them and retightened until the blade was more flush over time. The blades were absolutely not flush at first. (Boots are Harlick customs, blades Ultima freestyle).

I was curious and my one boot has 5 screws in, the other 6. Four in top plate, two in the heel plate. Guess I may have lost a screw in that one boot.

[stardust skies]

I am holding good, strong, running edges in them without backward/forward rocking or blade stutter. My 3 turns are all working fine and I'm now able to hold the edge after the turns. One foot glides on either edge or straight, changes of edge are going fine.

Only thing I am worried about is my spins. Obviously with only the 4 screws in, I didn't go flat out at them. 2 foot spin seemed okay, a bit toey, but the only one foot spin I attempted consisted of the entry edge, followed by a horrible sideways scrape as soon as I started to turn, stopping me dead. It was like the blade just couldn't turn, it bit into the ice.

Karen

I think it must be really tricky to try and get them right on your own, and maybe it would be best to leave well enough alone until you get to a point where nothing feels right anymore.

I really think that if you can hold all your edges and do all your turns correctly without struggle that you shouldn't judge the positioning of your blades by spins. If you can do three turns, there should be no problem doing spins with the blades, so I'm tempted to think it's probably an issue that you're thinking too hard about the blades, and plus as you said, with the whole ordeal you're not spending much time skating.

If the edges and turns feel good, I'd leave the placement alone, cause that's pretty much what every skating move is based off of, so they should be alright. Just my thoughts.

[Joan]

I am having blade mounting issues too. I got new boots 2 months ago and had my old blades mounted on them. I keep asking for the left boot blade to be adjusted this way or that, because it doesn't feel quite right. Two weeks ago, I finally decided it was OK and got it final mounted. But today, I tried something on the ice that told me it is not OK. What I tried was to change edge from a straight spiral to an outside or inside edge spiral. On the left foot, even the straight spiral was hard to hold straight - it kept pulling to the right just a little bit. It is very hard to change from straight to outside edge on my left side; but no problem on the right side. My conclusion is that the blade is not straight. It looks straight, but since I too have bunions, it is a little hard to tell with these weird shaped boots! So I left them off to have all the final screws removed and go back to trying to adjust the position again. :frus: By the time I'm done, the bottoms of these boots are going to be nothing but filler!