Questions on hinged boots & blades

[silverdragon]

Hello! I am a new member and found this web site by surfing the Internet. This looks like a good site to share information and learn new information. I would appreicate any feedback that I can get on a couple of topics that I am currently researching.

Background: I currently am skating in Harlick High Tester boots with John Wilson Coronation Comet blades. I have been skating in this set for quite some time (years). Actually, the current skate boots and blades that I have are my second set of each. Both have worked well for me, but since I am a genuine adult skater, I have not skated enough to have had the opportunity to skate in different boots and blades. My boots before my Harlicks were Reidell's, and those did not work for me well for very long (I do not remember the blade).

To make a long story short, before deciding on Harlicks years ago, I had tried on Klingbeil and SP Teri. The Harlicks were the most comfortable to me and seemed to fit my feet better. I have kind of narrow feet but my toes fan (long into short); they are not all the same length. The Klingbeils did not feel quite right, and SP Teri's actually hurt my feet and my bones, so I went with the Harlicks.

Well, I am now in the market for some new skates and possibly blades too. I have had an ankle injury and I am currently nursing another injury not related to the skate boots. I saw Skate America on TV a short while back, and noticed Alissa Czisny's flex/hinged boots. They talked about the injury thing and how the boots move with the natural motion of the ankle.

I started doing some research and I am very interested in this boot or one like it. I have researched two kinds: the Jackson Ultima ProFlex and the Graf hinged boot. The Graf hinged boot does not move like the ProFlex. Earlier this week, I discovered that one of the adult skaters was wearing a pair of the Graf hinged boots. Although I did not skate in it (I skated in her regular pair), I tried it on and liked the way it felt. It was very comfortable.

I am curious if any of you know anything about either of these two boots or have had any experiences with them whatsoever. I want to hear what everyone has to say, especially those persons who are adults and are over 100 pounds in weight. Do you know if the Graf is better than the Jackson or vice versa? The cost looks about the same, so I am interested in the fit and comfort, especially in the toes and the ankles. I am in a situation right now where I cannot perform a sit spin because of my injury; there is too much resistance in the boot.

Do not get me wrong, the Harlicks are great for me and have been for years, but sometimes it is time for a change. Also, my adult skater friend told me that she used to have Harlicks and JW Coronation Ace blades, but that the JW blade did not fit the Graf boot correctly. The Graf that I skated a few minutes in had a Graf Diamond blade. The blade felt great for jumps, but I could not spin well. I guess any change to boots/blades will take some getting used to.

Does anyone have any suggestions for the blades? I would like to keep my current blades, but I am not sure if the blade would fit on the Jackson boot (looks like it owuld not fit on the Graf boot). I am willing to step up to a more advanced blade (I like the bigger toe pick), but I do not want to give up my spins either. I read that the blade I have has an 8.5' radius, so would it be a problem to drop to a 7'-7.5' radius? Would it be best to stick with at least an 8' radius?

I am sorry for all of the questions and the long post; I am not sure what the protocol is on posting long messages to this board. I am pretty new to message boards! Any information is helpful to me! Thank you so much!

[dbny]

Welcome. First, I have to say that I don't have any personal or even second hand info on any of the hinged boots. Second, it would be helpful if you would tell us at what level you are skating, i.e., singles, doubles, axels, etc.

Re blades - there is no problem fitting any particular blade to any particular boot, but the length of the blade required can be different with a different boot. For example, if you are wearing a size 6 Jackson with a size 10 blade, and go to a size 6 Riedell, you might need a slightly longer or shorter blade. You can discuss that with you local pro shop proprietor when you get down to specifics. In our discussions of blades here, we try to use the term "rocker" rather than "radius" to refer to the curvature of the blade, and use "radius" to refer to the "radius of hollow", which is the cut of the blade between the edges. It helps avoid confusion. So, in that sense, you are correct that the Comet has an 8.5' rocker and you would definitely have to adjust to a smaller rocker. IMO, if you like your blades and are not doing doubles, you don't need to change.

[silverdragon]

Hi! Great - a response already; this is good. Ooops on the radius/rocker thing - too much fun for me this holiday season so far. That is what I meant; thank you for the clarification. I noticed that my blade is flatter than some other skaters' blades. Could this have to do with my 8.5' rocker?

I forgot to put down my skating level. I have all of my single jumps through the lutz (all consistent), and I am working on an axel (I am on a break for a while from that because of my injuries). I have all of my basic spins and some combo spins. I competed at this year's Adult Nationals as a Bronze lady.

I will hopefully begin axel work again in 2006. I am not ruling out the possibility of working on low doubles sometime in the future, so I would like to make sure that both my boots and blades would be able to meet up to the standard of low doubles since I can keep my equipment for years. If I can keep my existing blades, then I guess that means that I would need to just buy a shorter blade then? I currently have a 9 1/4 on my JW Comets.

Hope this helps. I would love to hear everyone's comments/suggestions. Thank you.

[Debbie S]

Silverdragon, you may want to do a search through the old threads on this subject. A month or 2 ago, there was another thread on this forum that covered the same topic. You might find the info you're looking for there.

[TaBalie]

Here is a good thread that gives you an idea of what people are wearing, if they are happy, their level, etc.

http://skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=18514&highlight=tabalie

[silverdragon]

Thanks, guys! This looks like a good thread to read through. I will do that to give me an idea of what folks are wearing and what they like about their equipment.

I was hoping, though, for a comparison between the Graf hinged boot and the ProFlex boot. I unfortunately have not seen anyone at my rink yet with those skates except for my friend with the Graf hinged boot. I get the impression from reading that the boots are fairly new on the market, so I suspect that not many people have had the opportunity to skate in both kinds or make comparisons. I will keep searching and researching.

Thank you all of you for posting responses to my questions. Have a great one!

[techskater]

Generally, people stick with what works for them, so it will be really hard to get an opinion from someone who has skated in both

[luna_skater]

A few people at my rink are wearing the Graf hinged boot...one low-level lady and two senior ladies (one who is on the National Team). They seem to be doing fine with it (the senior lady who is not on the NT has really improved her triples, which may or may not be directly related to the skates), but I haven't talked to them personally about the boots. I don't know anyone skating in the Jackson boots, sorry.

I was skate shopping back in May, and tried on Gams, Grafs, and Jacksons (I already had Riedells and wanted something different). The Gams and Grafs fit me very similarly, though the Grafs were stiffer and more snug (and I did get both heat molded in the shop). The Jacksons fit me too loosely in comparison; it felt like I was wearing a street shoe. So getting an idea of which brand fits you better first might make your decision process easier!

ETA: I ended up buying the Gams, BTW, because of cost and fit.

[TreSk8sAZ]

Just a word of advice when thinking of getting hinged boots. The hinged boots allow for more ankle flexion and are not as stiff as the normal boots, which means that your ankles have to be quite strong. If going from normal boots to hinged, make sure you take the time to strenghten your ankles so that the difference does not result in any injury.

[flo]

Another thing to think about - my friend has the hinged boots, and the knob at the back just broke. It will be fixed, but now she has down time as it's not easily replaced like a pair of laces.
A back up pair of regular boots would not be a good option, as the differences in the boots are too great.

[Lenny2]

I have also been searching for information comparing the Jackson hinge with the Graf hinge but have had little luck. My skater also is in Hacklick (custom). I have spoken with the mother of a senior pair skater who is in the Jackson hinge and has worn the Graf hinge. She told me that the skater likes the Jackson hinge, now that she is used to it. (This skater is probably about 5'2", maybe 90-95 pounds). It does take several weeks for skaters who do double axels and triple jumps to get all their jumps back in the Jackson boot, because of the extreme amount of flex it allows in the ankle. There is a lot of falling in the beginning, especially on the take-off of the lutz and similar movement where there is nothing to stop the foot from flexing forward. This mother told me that the skater did not see a great deal of difference between the Graf hinged boot and the Graf Edmonton boot, which seemed to me a good reason to use the Graf model as a transition into the new technology. Perhaps it allows a bit more flex in the ankle, but not as much as the Jackson, so it might be easier to get used to.

The little information I have found on the Graf hinge has been largely positive. I do know several skaters in the Jackson hinge, which Czisny wears, and they do seem to like it also, although they all have had mechanical difficulties with the knob, as the previous poster mentioned. All have broken, from time to time, so you have to know how to repair it, or you will be without your boots until you can get the factory to repair it. The Grafs would not have this problem.

Please post more information, if you are able to come up with anything. We have been very frustrated in seeking information, and there is nowhere in our area for my skater to try on the Graf hinged boot. I don't want her to order it and have a very difficult time with it once it arrives.

[Lenny2]

Here is the thread I started on this similar subject a few months ago:

http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=18799

I got a few replies that may be useful to you

[silverdragon]

Hi again! Thank you so much, all of you, for your responses. You all have been very helpful to me. My next step is to continue to do some more research on this topic and also to see if I can locate a shop in my area that hopefully carries at least one of these two models of skates.

I have heard positive feedback on these boots so far with the exception of the knob problems in the Jackson ProFlex. Does anyone have more detail on that? What I mean is, how much does it cost to repair the knob if it breaks? Also, does it break from something that the skater does incorrectly (turn it too tight maybe?), or is it something wrong with the knob itself like a defect? I am curious about that.

TreSk8sAZ, that is a good point that you bring up about ankle strength. I guess that means that it might be a good idea for a skater to take ballet or maybe do some of those special exercises for feet and toes before wearing this boot.

I imagine that the adjustment period for any hinged boot will be considerable and take a lot of patience. Of course, I am only performing single jumps, so I wonder if that period would be a bit shorter in my case. I can keep researching and let you all know what I end up doing. If I do purchase some hinged boots, I can let you guys know how it works for me after skating a few sessions in them. I talked to my coach about the boots yesterday, and she suggested that if I do decide to change boots/blades, that I should definitely wait until after Adult Nationals to make such a major change.

I will keep you all posted. Please continue to post responses and information if you receive any or if you are new and just reading this post and have some information. Thank you and have fun skating!

[silverdragon]

Oh, I forgot to mention that I found TaBalie's thread reference very informative. It looks like a lot of people are wearing similar boots and skating in a good variety of blades.

It also looks like a few skaters unfortunately are injured or have had injuries in the recent past. I am battling with one in particular right now and just trying to get healthy soon.