What does it mean to "look like an adult skater"? [Archive]

phoenix

11-17-2005, 04:36 PM

The "look" is the result of learning how to skate after you've grown up, and it is that you skate like a beginning skater--ie, head down, slow speed, probably little or no extension, toe pushes, hesitant--but at the same time because of your 'grown up' body people think you should look like a polished skater who's been on the ice all their life.

Look at the Basic 1-4 kids skating around your rink--then picture *that* style/quality of skating on an adult body, & you'll see what I mean. That would be 'looking like an adult skater.'

So while it's perfectly normal to have that 'look', sometimes people use it in a derogatory way, I think who may not understand how difficult skating is, and how long it takes to develop all that polish that you see in the higher level kids! The adults at the higher levels don't tend to have that look so much, if at all, anymore, but it takes years of hard work to get there.

I also think it takes longer (in general) for adult learners to lose that "look" because they don't typically get the opportunity for as much practice time as the kids do, and I really believe it's harder to learn skating as an adult than as a child. Or maybe it's that children who aren't naturally gifted tend to quit after a year or two, while an adult will keep on because they love it so much, regardless of whether there is God-given talent there or not! :bow:

Novice Spirals

11-17-2005, 05:01 PM

Looking like an adult skater to me means that you don't have soft knees like the kids. When an adult comes back to skating who skated as a kid, it's obvious. They have more speed, flow and ankle flexing. I've seen some adults who skate like kids, but when I see a former kid skater, I can tell.
The bests compliment I ever received from my coach is that I did something that didn't look "like an adult". It's not a bad thing--it just IS. Enjoy yourself and don't worry about what category you fall into--- ;)

skaternum

11-17-2005, 07:16 PM

I agree with the other responses, and I'll add that it also includes simply looking uncomfortable on the ice. Stiff. Not at ease.

I REALLY don't want to launch another debate about whether people who started as adults can be good skaters, or the differences between adults who started as kids vs. those who started as adults, however ... I don't think there's anything unusual about an adult looking like an "adult skater." I will add, though, that just because it's common doesn't mean it's a something to be satisfied with. Yes, we all look like that at some point, but the key to adult skating is twofold: (1) Strive to be the best skater you can be, just like the kids do and work hard to achieve that goal. Aim for skating like a Senior lady. (2) But don't beat yourself up if you don't look or skate like a 15 year old who's been skating for a decade!

Chico

11-17-2005, 08:45 PM

My goal as a skater has always been to be the best I can be. And yes, I didn't want to look like "an adult skater". No, this isn't a bad thing, I AM an adult skater. However, I want to look like a SKATER. Like Novice Sprirals the best compliments I have recieved in skating are when skating parents, fellow skaters and even COACHES have taken me as a previous child skater. In fact an old coach used to tell me I skated like a child not an adult.......at the time I wasn't sure I liked this but now I know it as the compliment it was ment to be. I'd like to think I skate like a child now but with a little maturity. =-)

Chico

blisspix

11-18-2005, 03:13 AM

To me, adult skater is someone who is older than a junior, and not on the competitive circuit deliberately or by design. So that would in my mind include skaters who were competitive as teens, and became more casual skaters as they got older, skaters who started as teens (a big group here in Australia) and those who started as adults.

I started as a teen (14) but quit when I went to graduate school. So I didnt' really start as a kid either. I'm starting again at 26, I sure feel like an adult. My knees are not what they used to be!!

quarkiki2

11-18-2005, 08:54 AM

I look like an adult skater -- I am one. I fully recognize that I'm not comfortable out there at any speed faster than slow. I'm working on it. It's not a bad thing, it's just where I am right now.

When I say I don't want to look like an adult skater, I'm actually saying that I want deep, fast flowing edges. I want to look secure, graceful and powerful. I just don't yet. It's just faster to say that I don't want to look like an adult skater -- lurching over every ripple in the ice, stiff-kneed and wobbly. It's especially frustrating to me because I was a dancer for 15 years and studied martial arts for 4. I AM graceful and sure-footed -- when the floor isn't frozen. It's such a natural response for me that when I push on the floor, it pushes back -- it's doesn't make me slide like the ice does. It's hard to re-train my brain that the slidy feeling is OK.

As someone who didn't start skatig until I was asily an adult, I can really say that I am proud to have decided one day that I would try ice skating -- something I'd never done before and had virtually NO experience with. It's not an easy sport to learn and I think it takes guts to just walk into a rink one day and give it a shot.

I have gotten one compliment that completely blew me away. I was back on the ice for the first time since having my son and was feeling terribly un-coordinated and even more clumsy than normal when a public skater approached me and told me that I was the fastest skater she'd ever seen. And she wasn't joking! It was then that I realized how far I'd come -- even if I don't jump or spin yet (darn fear!!) and I was all unbalanced and scrapy at the time. Small steps!

e-skater

11-18-2005, 04:58 PM

I agree with the other responses, and I'll add that it also includes simply looking uncomfortable on the ice. Stiff. Not at ease.

I will add, though, that just because it's common doesn't mean it's a something to be satisfied with. Yes, we all look like that at some point, but the key to adult skating is twofold: (1) Strive to be the best skater you can be, just like the kids do and work hard to achieve that goal. Aim for skating like a Senior lady. (2) But don't beat yourself up if you don't look or skate like a 15 year old who's been skating for a decade!

Luckily, though I started at 47 1/2, I am told by many I look comfy on the ice. I guess that's something.

I agree with you. I am NOT satisfied with what I see on video, whether it be in practice, in competition, or from a show. I am striving to be the best skater I can be. My goal has been from the outset to cover the ice with speed, flow, grace, and hopefully some power, despite my age. I think this is possible. I push myself to test dance and Adult track, as if nothing else, having a goal hones at least specific skills.

In any event, it is why I push myself, and why, though skating is fun and a hobby, I take it seriously. I never know when I may no longer be able to skate. The reason may have nothing to do with me. So I value this experience, and my ice time. Also, when I began skating, I had no lessons except six weeks of group lessons. Then quite a while with nothing, only skating two hours a week, due to work. When I did start private lessons, I only had one a month. That was the first four years of my skating life. And I've skated now for seven. I think I'm just starting to make progress now.

Our rink is hosting Pacific Coast Sectionals this week. It gives one a certain perspective. When an acquaintance I hadn't seen in two years greeted me (her daughter used to compete regularly), and asked me "How is your skating going?", I replied, "Well, I'm an adult." ;)

Janet, www.geocities.com/e_sk8r

Casey

11-18-2005, 06:48 PM

Janet, www.geocities.com/e_sk8r
Hey Janet,

Did you get my E-mail response about the space for videos? I haven't heard back from you and since one of your previous responses went missing mysteriously, I figured I should ask...

e-skater

11-18-2005, 06:57 PM

Hey Janet,

Did you get my E-mail response about the space for videos? I haven't heard back from you and since one of your previous responses went missing mysteriously, I figured I should ask...

Yes, sent you an e-mail response also just now...hoping you receive.....it worked GREAT! I've got all the stuff I wanted to post for now there and people are able to view them without trouble! I've received quite a few helpful hints as a result, which are always welcome. Thank you again!

Casey

11-18-2005, 08:44 PM

Yes, sent you an e-mail response also just now...hoping you receive.....it worked GREAT! I've got all the stuff I wanted to post for now there and people are able to view them without trouble! I've received quite a few helpful hints as a result, which are always welcome. Thank you again!
Hmm, I got your message, but I tried to reply and couldn't:
Remote host said: 511 sorry, no mailbox here by that name (#5.1.1 - chkuser)
Are you checking the sk8rland.com email too? Why don't you have private messages on this forum enabled? I feel kinda bad for hijacking this thread, sorry!

Ahh well, glad you got it all sorted, I watched a few of your videos, good work!! Let me know if you need anything else.

kayskate

11-20-2005, 08:18 AM

I agree w/ what has been said about looking like an "adult skater". IMO, the primary problem is not spending enough time working on basic skills that will give the adult the qualities typically lacking. These include speed, flow, carriage, deep edges, etc. By simply working on stroking, xovers (back and forward), dance steps, etc.; the adult can greatly improve these areas that tend to pigeonhole us. When I skate, I spend at least as much time on basics as jumps and spins. Over the yrs, I have become very fast and powerful.

Kay

Tessie

11-20-2005, 10:01 AM

I agree with Kayskate 100%

As an adult skater I have worked very hard on the basics of cross overs (all directions) and am quite secure in those and have nice speed. I am less secure but feel vindicated that I can do an impression of a combination jump: waltz / toe. Which is more than what most will venture to do for the first time at 40 something.

My rink has a small but pretty supportive adult program. All of us started in the basics skills Adult 1-4. We have progressed at various rates but seem to have different strengths. I am now in FS 4, there are others in 5 & 6. Due to the number of people (4) we are all in the same class. The instructor spends 10 minutes of each class focussing on cross overs and edges of such. I have found that those who rushed through some of the more basic elements still struggle with these but they have the more advanced "tricks".

(edited for spelling)

I am sure we look like "adult skaters" but nobody makes fun of us!

blisspix

11-20-2005, 05:30 PM

I think you can look uncomfortable on the ice no matter your age... I see skaters from 6-60 doing crossovers without knee bends, looking stiff etc.

I took one class that helped enormously in fixing the basics - Annie Schelter's stroking class. I'd been skating a couple of years by then but didn't have big knee bends. By the end of the class things were much improved.

So I would suggest if you think you look/feel a little unsure with the basics, see if you can get a stroking class from someone, or work on crossover drills for a few sessions with a friend, and nothing else.

slusher

11-20-2005, 10:50 PM

I agree with Kayskate 100%

As an adult skater I have worked verty hard on the basics of cross overs (all directions) and am quite secure in those and have nice spead. I am less secure but feel vindicated that I can do an impression of a combination jump: waltz / toe. Which is more than what most will venture to do for the first time at 40 something.

I agree with Tessie! My coach has worked with me on crosscuts, again and again, I take stroking class with the kids and am always last but I keep trying to improve my power and that's where I'm getting my compliments (you fit in with the kids). I can also do a very nice toe/toe or sal/toe combination out of fast crosscuts. So me too, I can "fake it" with fast crosscuts and a combo (learned at age 43 btw) and not look like an adult skater. However, if asked to do a flip or loop or sitspin, or lunges, then I show my age because I'm all arms and legs with those things, just like a kid would be but it looks weird on me.

That's my measuring stick, is the sitspin. I'm determined to get it lower, smoother and faster, and then I feel I'd look less awkward new-adult skater.

singerskates

11-21-2005, 12:56 PM

Like Madonna's song Like A Virgin.

I was skating almost non-stop for 5 years when I had to do a huge hockey stop last June do to my herniated discs. I am now forced to relearn what I know I can already do but I'm just so stiff. I feel like that Virgin Madonna keeps trying to say she is. LOL I can't get that low anymore (arthritis). My mind is willing but the body is just not snapping back into shape. I feel old when I first step onto the ice. It takes me a about 6 laps before I'm warmed up enough to even attempt anything. I also just bought new boots and blades too. So, they are breaking me in. I need to have the mounting finalized, re sharped with a deeper hollow and several spots need to be punched out. I'm not comfortable on the ice at the moment. I'm also thinking in the back of my mind, that I can't fall down. So I'm hesitant until I trick my mind into thinking like I'm skating pre-injured pre-Feb. 14 2005. I know that I will get injured more if I skating hesitantly then if I really go for everything I try whole heartedly.

The hockey stop is not what did it too me. It's just a term I used in my writing.

It will be a while before I can even think of competing again but for now, it's one small edge at a time on my way back to being competitive again.

Skate@Delaware

11-21-2005, 02:52 PM

I agree with Kayskate 100%

As an adult skater I have worked verty hard on the basics of cross overs (all directions) and am quite secure in those and have nice spead. I am less secure but feel vindicated that I can do an impression of a combination jump: waltz / toe. Which is more than what most will venture to do for the first time at 40 something.

My rink has a small but pretty supportive adult program. All of us started in the basics skills Adult 1-4. We have progressed at various rates but seem to have different strengths. I am now in FS 4, there are others in 5 & 6. Due to the number of people (4) we are all in the same class. The instructor spends 10 minutes of each class focussing on cross overs and edges of such. I have found that those who rushed through some of the more basic elements still struggle with these but they have the more advanced "tricks".

I am sure we look like "adult skaters" but nobody makes fun of us!

My rink has the same set-up and we have about 5 in our "adult" class!!! We have just started working on pre-bronze/bronze/silver moves (whatever she feels like throwing at us).

The nice thing to remember is....we are on the icy side of the glass, while the other adults at the rink are on the other side of the glass (in the lobby)!!!!

starskate6.0

11-22-2005, 04:32 PM

Hi Gang :D

Regarding what is an Adult skater.

I have had the pleasure to skate at iceworks PA for the past 3 years. :D
During that time the support of the club, the coaches and the rink staff have been out standing to say the least. Our adults are very lucky to have the ice when it is needed for practice and to run our annual competition and ice shows. The rink staff are very supportive of us all and we tend to help each other out. Today I got a lot of good advice from 13 year old Laurin who is on her way to Junior nationals. She is a wonderful skater but has always taken the time to give me a tip out of the blue to help my jumps or spins and it has been a great help to me. :D

The support of my coaches have always inspired my love for the ice, even when Im having a bad day, they do not ignore the adults. I have been an adult skater in one strange way or another for over 23 years. Adult skaters are people who want to express them selves in ways they may only have dreamed about as children, but are now given the chance to make it all happen. Some wish to win medals , some to entertain and others feel that great sence of accomplishment by passing a test.

I hope you will all find what brings you joy as an Adult Skater, Im not convinced it has anything to do with how you look as an adult but of how you feel when you have accomplished your goals , no matter how big or small that may be... :D have fun and skate..

doubletoe

11-22-2005, 05:04 PM

I have an idea. Since several posters have so eloquently described what constitutes the "adult skater" image, I think we are all clear that the "adult skater" look is really that of a "beginning skater." So why don't we all start changing the terminology? Whenever someone uses the term "adult skater" to mean a stiff, hesitant skater with poor flow over the ice, why don't we make a point of saying, "You mean a beginning skater?" I will be the first to commit to the new terminology! :)

e-skater

11-22-2005, 05:46 PM

NickiT

11-23-2005, 05:13 AM

While I was skating on patch this morning, the mum of one of our coaches was sat on the side. When I came back to the barrier to grab a tissue, she asked me if I skated as a child as I skated fast. I was pretty chuffed with that since I was well into my 20s when I started and I told her so. I always feel like I skate like an adult, so it was nice that for one moment someone thought different!

Nicki

skate1965

11-23-2005, 07:15 AM

I am not an adult skater by the rules everyone seems to use because I skated for three years as a child. But there are many skaters today who started as an adult who are fantastic skaters and skate rings around us former child skaters. Just look at those who placed in the top three in all areas of Adult Nationals. There were many skaters who started as an adult and skated very, very well.
Yes, I think it's harder to start skating as an adult. It was extremely difficult for me to start skating again as an adult. It was easy when I was a kid, but now it's a big challenge everyday. But I agree with Ross. This terminology has got to change. Let's stop using the term "adult skater" when we really mean a "beginning skater" and let's all just start trying to be good skaters. I think it is sad that the term "adult skater" has become a bad term, it should be a good one for all of us who are an adult and skate.

skaternum

11-23-2005, 08:47 AM

So why don't we all start changing the terminology? Whenever someone uses the term "adult skater" to mean a stiff, hesitant skater with poor flow over the ice, why don't we make a point of saying, "You mean a beginning skater?"Only if you're okay referring to someone who's been skating for 10+ years as a "beginning skater!" Because that's what you'd have to do. Many adult-onset skaters never really lose the "look" of hesitance, discomfort, and poor flow.

For example, I've been skating for 10 years now (minus 6 months here and there for various injuries/surgeries). I'm 41, and I consider myself a good adult skater. I voluntarily started testing standard track moves before the Adult Committee ever even thought of the (horrible IMNSHO) idea of mandatory adult moves. I work on my basic skating. I'm at the Silver level. I generally place well in competitions (almost always medal, sometimes final round at AN, etc.) And yet ... if you put me on the ice with a 41 year old who started as a kid and asked us to do the same things, I almost guarentee you could tell who of us was adult-onset and who wasn't. And I can say the same for most other adult skaters. (Yes, I know. There are always exceptions to the rule. I'm not asking for a list of fabulous adult-onset skaters everyone may personally know. I'm generalizing on purpose.) But I think it's safe to say that there is typically a difference. No matter how long we skate, most of us adult-onset skaters will always look different.

Personally, I don't have a problem with that. So what if I look like an adult skater. I am an adult skater. I'm still going to push myself to be the best skater I can be.

skateflo

11-23-2005, 04:31 PM

I accept that I am an adult skater (started at 46) and over the years have wished I had more time and money to make my body on the ice look more 'natural.' I wonder if there was more research, articles, off-ice seminars, local classes designed specifically for the adult learner that some of the stiffness, etc. would be reduced. There is a big gap in the exercise/ballet world between young supple bodies and those riddled with arthritis. Realistically, off-ice exercises, ballet, etc. focus on the less than 30 yr. group, if you can even find them. Teachers are so focused on the young that even finding one that understands the physiology of the more mature body and can prescribe and guide us is sooo needed. It may take longer to attain the fluidity and flexibility but the joy with the result would be boundless! I just know I could do better if I had the right instructor.......

doubletoe

11-23-2005, 11:55 PM

Only if you're okay referring to someone who's been skating for 10+ years as a "beginning skater!" Because that's what you'd have to do. Many adult-onset skaters never really lose the "look" of hesitance, discomfort, and poor flow.

OK, point taken. I kind of like your term, "adult onset" skater (even though it does sound somewhat like a disease, LOL!)

stardust skies

11-24-2005, 04:46 AM

Mrs Redboots

11-24-2005, 05:40 AM

I don't really know any adult skaters, but I'd like to point out there's plenty of kids (even ones doing triples, sadly) who look awfully hesitant on the ice. They'll do the jumps, but then they won't even be able to do correct crossovers, they trip all over themselves, don't point their feet, it's horrible. I see a lot of those, actually.This is poor teaching, and something to be addressed by the coach. The best teachers don't let them get away with it! And the older ones suck their teeth and complain about the demise of figures.

So it's not an adult thing. It's just a....bothering to learn how to SKATE thing. A lot of people don't bother. And some people just aren't meant to be on the ice, it's not like everyone's got it in them to do it effortlessly. Some people feel at home on certain surfaces, and alienated on another. For example, I've known how to swim my whole life, but I still feel like a drowning dog in a swimming pool. I'm not at ease in water. But I feel more at home on the ice than I do on concrete. I think I find this very slightly offensive - it sounds as though you are saying that people who can't skate, or who are never going to be any good, shouldn't be on the ice? Sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more - skating is not just about being an elite skater. It's about fun and exercise and challenging yourself to do better, to get off the bottom, to finish ahead of a rival.... or simply about fun and exercise! Not everybody even wants to test or compete, although they might well want to skate as well as they possibly can.

Another thing that I'm sure affects the "look" of older skaters is fear. You're more afraid to fall when you're older. When you learn as a kid you aren't afraid to fall, and by the time you are older you know that falling ISN'T a big deal, so you aren't ever afraid. Plus, if you've skated all your life, you've got so many injuries and chronic ailments by the time you're an adult that even if you fall it really won't make a difference to your daily pain level, so why bother being afraid? Heh. A broken bone, for an adult, could be a great deal more serious than for a child, if only because it would result in loss of earnings, time off work, and might even (depending on the age of that adult) mean permanent loss of mobility. And a fall that a child would bounce back from might well mean a serious injury for an adult.

Skate@Delaware

11-24-2005, 07:02 AM

I see too many "kids" on the ice just doing jumps and spins....rarely ever working on edges, 3-turns, crossovers, etc. which are the foundation of everything. This is a big problem and may be a contributing factor on why they look so alien on the ice. They have never mastered the basics.

As far as the "fear factor" I've seen and know adults who are terrified of falling so much, they never leave the wall! Yes, they are on the ice, but if they never leave the wall they will never advance. I used to be one of them. I finally left the wall (padded up and scared to death, but I didn't die). I've taken some nasty falls, but nothing broke (so far). I also visit my chiropractor a lot ;) Sometimes you will fall on challenging moves. There may be the fall that seriously injures you-you have to take that into account. I work a part-time job and my husband earns the $$$. I can go on convalescent leave with no pay. That's my backup plan. That's life in the skating world.

But the worst thing I have seen are the skaters who have lost "it"-the love and joy of the sport. They go through the motions and skate like robots without feeling. That makes me sad.

NickiT

11-24-2005, 08:23 AM

This is poor teaching, and something to be addressed by the coach. The best teachers don't let them get away with it! And the older ones suck their teeth and complain about the demise of figures.

I think I find this very slightly offensive - it sounds as though you are saying that people who can't skate, or who are never going to be any good, shouldn't be on the ice? Sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more - skating is not just about being an elite skater. It's about fun and exercise and challenging yourself to do better, to get off the bottom, to finish ahead of a rival.... or simply about fun and exercise! Not everybody even wants to test or compete, although they might well want to skate as well as they possibly can.

A broken bone, for an adult, could be a great deal more serious than for a child, if only because it would result in loss of earnings, time off work, and might even (depending on the age of that adult) mean permanent loss of mobility. And a fall that a child would bounce back from might well mean a serious injury for an adult.

I totally agree with everything Annabel has said. A broken bone for an adult IS a big deal when for a child it doesn't matter so much. Having just got over a broken wrist and having broken my ankle five years ago, I only know too well. I don't work but my husband runs his own business, and he had to reduce his working hours in order to run the kids to and from school. This meant his income was reduced. I therefore may look a bit fearful about falling because right now it's the last thing I want to do! Fortunately I have the full support of my husband to return to skating and we both accept that accidents can happen.

As for some people not being natural on the ice - I would say a lot of skaters both adult and child, aren't natural. Skating isn't natural after all! My daughter has been diagnosed with dyspraxia so while she enjoys skating, she isn't a natural as she has major balance and co-ordination issues. However she works to the best of her own ability and is landing lutz-loop in her programme so I don't see any reason why she shouldn't be on the ice just because she's not an elite skater and never will be. The skating is doing wonders for her dyspraxia and is a lot more fun than the designated balancing and co-ordination based exercises given by the medics!

Nicki

Tessie

11-24-2005, 09:58 AM

Hi Gang :D

......I hope you will all find what brings you joy as an Adult Skater, Im not convinced it has anything to do with how you look as an adult but of how you feel when you have accomplished your goals , no matter how big or small that may be... :D have fun and skate..

Perfectly stated!

techskater

11-24-2005, 12:02 PM

Another thing that contributes to the "look" is knee bend. A taller adult may bend their knees as much as a 4'8" kid but it doesn't look that way because of the proportion!

The most important thing is for people to do what makes them happy!

sk8er1964

11-24-2005, 12:55 PM

I'm going to come to Stardust's defense here, because I don't think she meant to be offensive, and I do understand where she is coming from.

As most of you know, I'm an adult who skated as a kid. Falls don't matter too much to me -- and I've had some doozies. However, you should see the reactions of adults who don't know me (and even some who do). They're horrified that I'll take those kinds of falls, and amazed that I'll get right back up. To be totally honest, I never even think about breaking a bone or getting seriously injured when I skate. I know that others do, and that's ok. If it happens to me, I'll deal with it.

As for the not bothering to learn proper technique, I think that may be more of a kid thing than an adult thing. All of the adults I know definitely have the desire to learn proper technique. Now some of them won't completely get all aspects of skating, just like I will never get how to draw a horse (something I've always wanted to do). I tried and tried as a kid, using books and asking my art teacher to help me. I simply do not have the ability to make my horse look like a real horse. It completely amazes me when I see people who can draw. Some people, adults or kids, simply will not have the ability to do smooth, deep crossovers. Does that mean they should stop skating? Absolutely not. Should they accept their limitations and be proud of what they can do? Absolutely. Hey, I can draw a fairly decent dog and cat caricature, and a Kilroy, and a Christmas tree -- so when I draw that's what I draw! ;)

kayskate

11-24-2005, 01:21 PM

Falls don't matter too much to me -- and I've had some doozies. However, you should see the reactions of adults who don't know me (and even some who do). They're horrified that I'll take those kinds of falls, and amazed that I'll get right back up. To be totally honest, I never even think about breaking a bone or getting seriously injured when I skate.

When I was working on something new, I fell continuously. Now that I skate less, I still take my share of falls. However, I used to skate a session w/ a lot of other adults. Their reaction to my wipeouts was surprising to me. Adults came up to me after every collapse asking if I was okay. I know they were concerned, and I was probably taking nasty falls, but they looked worse than they were. I always popped right back up and kept going. But it sure did get tiresome to keep assuring ppl, "Yes, I'm okay. This is just part of skating". IMO, I doubt these particular adult skaters had ever seen an adult skating so hard and trying advanced moves.

Kay

stardust skies

11-24-2005, 03:51 PM

I think I find this very slightly offensive - it sounds as though you are saying that people who can't skate, or who are never going to be any good, shouldn't be on the ice?

That's not what I mean at all. What I meant is that every person has some things that come naturally to them, and other things don't. So while, say, Michelle Kwan, probably had ice skating come naturally for her, some of the people who look uncomfortable on the ice after ten years of practice probably don't have that natural ability- it probably lies somewhere else, and anything they do on the ice is a product of hard work, with no help from their genes.

I'm not at all saying you shouldn't be on the ice (or anywhere else..) if it doesn't come naturally to you, I'm just saying that while some of the problem is poor coaching, and while some of the problem is impatience (of the kid, the parent, the coach, everyone really..) that sometimes, and this isn't ever really considered into all these discussions, sometimes the problem is just that a particular person wasn't born to do this, it isn't naturally in them, and anything they are going to do in ice skating will be a real struggle and a real challenge, and that they probably never will look as comfortable as someone who does have the "calling" to be out there, and that there really isn't much that could be dne about it, and that it isn't anyone's fault at that point. I think it's a bummer to blame the skater or blame the coach when sometimes it just isn't something that can be helped.

As I said, there are things I've learned how to do for years, and I still feel like they're just not my territory. I learned an axel in a week, and most of my doubles were clean a few months after that. Double axel didn't take me a year or two years like most of the other kids. My coach has kids who STILL can't land a double axel after two years- so it's not just that I had an amazing coach (which I did), it's just that I had a little help in my genetic make up. Now, if I tried to, say, play the clarinet, I could probably be at it for ten years and never learn a single piece of music correctly, no matter how great my teacher is, cause I'm just not good at woodwinds (and I did try..so I know, haha). But what I'm saying is that you cannot be good at everything. Obviously, if someone likes something, they should keep doing it and keep trying to improve, but for some people, complete ease on the ice just isn't in the cards, for any given reason, and there's little that can be done to create it. It doesn't mean you should quit, NOT AT ALL, just that you should accept that it is what it is, and enjoy the skating without worrying so much about that "appearance".

As a side note, I had never thought about how injury could keep an adult from working. You are very right about that. That does put an added dimension on the "fear" factor some adults have that I had never considered before. Thanks for pointing it out. :)

Mrs Redboots

11-24-2005, 04:39 PM

That's not what I mean at all. What I meant is that every person has some things that come naturally to them, and other things don't. So while, say, Michelle Kwan, probably had ice skating come naturally for her, some of the people who look uncomfortable on the ice after ten years of practice probably don't have that natural ability- it probably lies somewhere else, and anything they do on the ice is a product of hard work, with no help from their genes.Oh, okay, fair enough!

I'm not at all saying you shouldn't be on the ice (or anywhere else..) if it doesn't come naturally to you, I'm just saying that while some of the problem is poor coaching, and while some of the problem is impatience (of the kid, the parent, the coach, everyone really..)

But why is it a problem? Surely, it's only a problem for those who really want to be elite skaters - for the rest, it's just part of the challenge that skating provides. And, as Nicki said, it can be a real help to some people with learning or other difficulties. Some rinks here have a "SkateAbility" programme for those children, and I've seen a group of skaters with those sorts of issues do a wonderful exhibition for an adult audience. Okay, so objectively they were pants, but they were out there, they did their best, they had fun, and in my book, that makes them champions!

As a side note, I had never thought about how injury could keep an adult from working. You are very right about that. That does put an added dimension on the "fear" factor some adults have that I had never considered before. Thanks for pointing it out. :)And adults are more likely to hurt themselves badly in a fall, too, alas.

e-skater

11-24-2005, 05:15 PM

When I was working on something new, I fell continuously. Now that I skate less, I still take my share of falls. However, I used to skate a session w/ a lot of other adults. Their reaction to my wipeouts was surprising to me. Adults came up to me after every collapse asking if I was okay. I know they were concerned, and I was probably taking nasty falls, but they looked worse than they were. I always popped right back up and kept going. But it sure did get tiresome to keep assuring ppl, "Yes, I'm okay. This is just part of skating". IMO, I doubt these particular adult skaters had ever seen an adult skating so hard and trying advanced moves.

Kay
Kay, I know exactly the reaction of which you speak....from other adults, particulary on the "adult session". Of these particular adults, I noticed that they are in the group of those who never seem to fall. Not that I enjoy falling, but I find that there's almost something missing if I'm NOT falling---when pushing to learn new skills. I agree that falling is just part of skating. That said, one always hopes that friends, or oneself, does not become seriously injured from same! Janet

e-skater

11-24-2005, 05:37 PM

Only if you're okay referring to someone who's been skating for 10+ years as a "beginning skater!" Because that's what you'd have to do. Many adult-onset skaters never really lose the "look" of hesitance, discomfort, and poor flow.

if you put me on the ice with a 41 year old who started as a kid and asked us to do the same things, I almost guarentee you could tell who of us was adult-onset and who wasn't. And I can say the same for most other adult skaters. (Yes, I know. There are always exceptions to the rule. I'm not asking for a list of fabulous adult-onset skaters everyone may personally know. I'm generalizing on purpose.) But I think it's safe to say that there is typically a difference. No matter how long we skate, most of us adult-onset skaters will always look different.

Personally, I don't have a problem with that. So what if I look like an adult skater. I am an adult skater. I'm still going to push myself to be the best skater I can be.

I agree, there are exceptions in the adult onset skater set. Like the woman who visited our rink, who was a former ballerina. Well, let's say her body movement was definitely not that of the typical adult skater. And, she was 58!!!! On the one hand, this tells me never to lose hope. It can be done, without having skated as a child (oh, sure, years and years of ballet training might help <smirk>).

A coach told me once that determination and perseverance could carry one further in skating than talent, or anything else. I believe her.

Janet

batikat

11-24-2005, 06:22 PM

OK my 2 cents

The 'adult skater' look IMO is basically about lack of flow, speed and mostly knee bend. The later you start skating the more 'ingrained bad bodily habits' (and various injuries) you have to overcome. Kids learn much more naturally - almost anything is easier learned as a child as the good habits become ingrained.

Those adults who start as adults and manage to overcome the 'adult skater' look often tend to have been dancers or roller skaters or gymnasts when younger (yes there are exceptions and those I'd put in the 'naturally talented' section). Very few people, kids or adults, are naturally talented as skaters but it's easier for the kids to overcome any lack of talent by hard work and perseverence.

I've worked hard to try to overcome the 'adult skater' look and interestingly have been told that I had better flow and knee bend etc when competing in an 'improvisation' competition than when competing my programme and there's probably something in the fact that adults tend to 'overthink' their skating rather than losing themselves in the ice and the music.

I do think that sometimes some coaches (not mine) fail to take adult skaters very seriously and dont push their adult pupils to improve the way they would the kids.

I started at the same time as my kids and if anything I take it more seriously than they do. My son in particular has a sickening amount of natural talent but is just not interested enough to practice, although he enjoys his lessons. Still, he is at level 5 (UK), whereas I am at level 1. He has 1 or occasionally 2 half hour lessons a week and no practice. I have 2 half hour lessons and practice 4 or 5 hours. My daughter also started the same time but is not as naturally talented on the ice. She has still reached level 4 and close to level 5. I will never be able to look as good on the ice as either of them. My main problem is knee bend rather than speed - I love speed :D - but my knees just don't like to bend and as you get older your flexibility does decrease so it's harder and harder to achieve the desired result. I will keep trying though.

angelskates

11-24-2005, 10:15 PM

Thin-Ice

11-25-2005, 02:27 AM

One of the coaches at a local rink describes that look as "skating with an adult accent". He compares learning to skate as an adult (when your movement patterns are already laid down from years of practice) to learning a second language as an adult (when you have years of practice hearing and pronouncing the tones and rhythm of your native language). Most people who learn another language as an adult always have traces of their first language pop up in the other language.

He says both can be overcome, but it is usually easier to learn new movements/languages as a child -- and mistakes are more easily forgiven by the general population when committed by children.

But he has had several skaters who start as adults overcome this because he drilled them on basic edges, knee bend, speed, etc. during every lesson and insisted they practice all of those things every time they skate. (Most of his students are REALLY good at figures!) His adult skaters have done very well and I believe he knows what he is talking about since he has seen quite a bit of the sport... he was US Champion during the 1940s.

vesperholly

11-25-2005, 04:41 AM

I have been reading this thread and thinking very hard about how to articulate in words what is different about people who started as adult vs. started as kids. I feel like the Supreme Court justice who said, "I can't tell you what pornography is, but I know it when I see it!" :lol:

I have some video of adult-onset skaters, and kid-onset skaters, so I went back and watched them carefully side by side. Where I could tell the difference the most was on crossovers and stroking. The AO skaters were weaker at pushing with their whole blade, did not complete or hold the second part of the cross over where the legs are actually crossed, and there was a marked hesitancy in the steps.

For example, on forward XOs, instead of the free foot tucking behind while on the FI edge, it stayed towards the side and had slight toe pushes. On backwards XOs, the free leg does not push fully backwards. The feet always stayed too close instead of really pushing away from each other for power and speed. It's so basic, but it really does reflect in every single element a skater performs. I think the remedy to this is dance lessons - or at the very least, a good coach for stroking lessons.

Mrs Redboots

11-25-2005, 06:06 AM

I wonder - is it our backs and shoulders? I know I suffer from serious lack of flexibility in my upper body, and so does my husband (at least we match!). Here in the UK, we have a very popular television programme called Strictly Come Dancing (http://www.bbc.co.uk/strictlycomedancing/) where so-called "celebrities" are paired up with professional ballroom & Latin dancers and have to compete. Very often - all too often - the celebs look like "adult skaters" while on the dance floor, and we've come to the conclusion that it's something to do with their backs and shoulders. The athletes and pop stars - and those actors who did dance training at stage school - tend to do better than the newsreaders and cooks!

What I don't know is exactly what it is about their backs and shoulders... I can see it, but can't describe it, nor can I correct it in myself!

batikat

11-25-2005, 07:11 AM

I wonder - is it our backs and shoulders? I know I suffer from serious lack of flexibility in my upper body, and so does my husband (at least we match!).

OOh I can definitely relate to that - my chiropractor said my lower back had all the flexibility of an 80 year old! Yes, that's 'eight, zero'. Doesn't help the old skating much (nor does the minor slipped disc and seized up sacro-illiac joint, intermittent 'frozen shoulder', damaged knee cartilage from old skiing accident etc. - but hey, that's what you have to deal with as an adult)

I was also reminded by Vesperholly's post of what a coach once said to me about adult skaters. She reckoned you could always tell a 'learned as an adult' skater, as they never rolled their ankles over for the under push in crossovers. Needless to say it's something I've been trying to correct in myself ever since. And the reasons why adults don't do it - well I think it's related to all the reasons people have given above - eg having to overcome ingrained body movement patterns, fear (of catching an edge, or falling whatever), lack of time available to practice, coaches not willing to push adult skaters as hard. There are lots of factors.

kayskate

11-25-2005, 07:43 AM

you could always tell a 'learned as an adult' skater, as they never rolled their ankles over for the under push in crossovers. Needless to say it's something I've been trying to correct in myself ever since. And the reasons why adults don't do it - well I think it's related to all the reasons people have given above - eg having to overcome ingrained body movement patterns, fear (of catching an edge, or falling whatever), lack of time available to practice, coaches not willing to push adult skaters as hard. There are lots of factors.

Not that kids don't get bored, but I have known many adult skaters who get so bored w/ basics that they become very frustrated and want to move on. I fell into this category early in my skating too. Since adults are "skating for fun" (and so are most kids!), they simply move on w/o mastering a move. Some of this is normal. Moves are taught together and ppl learn them simultaneously. I don't recommend beating a skill to death, but an adult should not forget basics in favor of jumps.

Myself, I was so used to skating crowded sessions, when I finally got to an empty rink, I realized I had no idea how to cover the ice. I had always spun/jumped in the middle. I had never bothered to learn to skate powerfully around the rink or do any sort of MITF. And no one bothered to push me.

I have seen some cases that are very extreme. One adult I knew could barely do xovers. She scratched her toe picks on every stroke. A coach put her in a harness to try an axel. No, her other jumps were not good either. She skated like a kid in basic skills grp lessons. She was bored, she was paying good $, and the coach entertained her fantasy.

Kay

Joan

11-25-2005, 08:29 AM

This is such an interesting thread. I agree with many of the reasons people have given for why an adult onset skater looks the way he/she does on the ice. I've been skating for 12 years, started at age 41, and have been in private lessons most of that time. I am still improving and learning new tricks. When I see myself on videotape, and other adults, I notice how my arms are rather stiff. I need to learn some of those ballet arm movements and how to coordinate them with stroking. The comments on stroking, above, are right on too. I have been working lately on getting that cross-under of the free foot during cross-overs. It looks better and it generates power to do it correctly. My knees don't bend as much as they could - and that gives me a look of having my weight slightly forward when skating. I notice this look a lot in adult onset skaters. Anyway, I don't know WHY all this is the case for many adult skaters, but I think we can recognize what is happening and try to correct it. I am trying...

stardust skies

11-25-2005, 02:12 PM

But why is it a problem?

I don't think it's a problem at all. The people who think it is a problem are the people who overanalyze themselves and try to beat the "adult skater" look out of themselves. I was just trying to share my opinion on why they might look that way and why it might be a waste of their energy to try and rid themselves of it, when they could just accept it and let it go. I clearly didn't articulate that properly, but it was still my point. Move on and make the best of it, is what I say. :)

samba

11-25-2005, 03:04 PM

Thanks for the link Annabel, it's lovely to be able to watch my favourites over again, but I have changed my mind about Colin after hearing the way he spoke to Erin tonight, maybe it was tongue in cheek but I didnt like it, so come on Bill for the oldies or Zoe for the younger ones.

Oops sorry I forgot this is a skating forum, but couldnt resist. As for looking like an adult skater, count me in, but there is nothing I or anyone else can do about it so I may as well just enjoy.

Cheers
Grace

starskate6.0

11-25-2005, 08:06 PM

Welcome - nice to have yet another Aussie!! Have you seen Aussie Willy's site just for Australian skating? Australian Skating Forums (http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=14532)

just to let you know Starskate is an Aussie too.. ;) g-day

starskate6.0

11-25-2005, 08:08 PM

Perfectly stated!

Thanks Tessie.. I live to watch anyone who has a love for the sport. It realy shows on the ice... :D

doubletoe

11-25-2005, 09:08 PM

When I see myself on videotape, and other adults, I notice how my arms are rather stiff. I need to learn some of those ballet arm movements and how to coordinate them with stroking. The comments on stroking, above, are right on too. I have been working lately on getting that cross-under of the free foot during cross-overs. It looks better and it generates power to do it correctly. My knees don't bend as much as they could - and that gives me a look of having my weight slightly forward when skating. I notice this look a lot in adult onset skaters. Anyway, I don't know WHY all this is the case for many adult skaters, but I think we can recognize what is happening and try to correct it. I am trying...

I totally agree! Whether it's the "old dog learning new tricks" syndrome or whether most adults just don't follow the same step-by-step training that most of the kids do, the point is that each component of the "awkward look" can be identified and corrected. We can learn and practice arm positions and we can work on actively bending deeper, pulling harder on those under-strokes and arching our backs. These are all very do-able things if we get them broken down for us. I'm working on these exact things as well!

sk8er1964

11-25-2005, 10:22 PM

just to let you know Starskate is an Aussie too.. ;) g-day

Yeah, but you're our US Aussie! ;) :D

jazzpants

11-25-2005, 11:48 PM

Mel On Ice

11-26-2005, 07:59 AM

yeah, what jazzpants said!

Mrs Redboots

11-26-2005, 10:04 AM

As for looking like an adult skater, count me in, but there is nothing I or anyone else can do about it so I may as well just enjoy.But you don't, Grace - at least, not in free skating. At least, you don't look nearly as much like an "adult skater" as many of us do.

And that, for the benefit of those folks who don't know Grace, is partly because she still has the build of a skater. Many of us are built more like adults than like skaters.....

samba

11-26-2005, 10:28 AM

Gosh thanks Annabel, dont know how true that is but you sure made my day, and your'e looking good yourself you know.

Cheers
Grace

e-skater

11-26-2005, 05:29 PM

"Yeah, I skate like an adult! I AM an adult skater!!! You wanna make something out of it???" http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/figuren/c080.gif

Seriously, in the end we got to work hard and do the best with what God gave us...and enjoy the gifts we receive from this sport! Those who wanna make fun of how we skate can go to H***!!! :evil:

Woo-hoo, jazzpants! I'm with ya!

I had a thought today (amazing in and of itself!) ;) :

"Adult Onset Skater" :roll: -- kind of makes it sound like a disease (which it is.....but in a different way than I mean right now). Sometimes I think that thinking of ourselves as "adult skaters" is the problem. Yes, we are adults. So what?! I think of myself as a skater. Who is an adult. Not an adult skater. I think there's a difference.

It occurred to me that when I learned skiing in my mid-30's, and skied for the next 15 years, not one single person EVER referred to "adult skiers". It's just interesting!