trying too hard?

[Mel On Ice]

Here's a dilemma you don't hear of too often - I have been told by my coach, my off-ice instructor and two of my skating girlfriends that I try too hard. I guess I get the concept, that I'm putting so much effort into learning something that I'm not "getting" the idea that it shouldn't be that hard and making learning that element harder than it should be.

Perfect example is the lutz. I work so hard to make sure everything is technically correct, that it's clunky and mechanical (outside edge, toepick in, arms in, jump, land). But when I am jumping quickly to get out of the way (like a kid barrelling down on me to do a double) I can do the jump with speed and flow because I'm thinking only of getting out of the way.

How do you recognize that you are trying too hard? How do you reign it back in so that you are just trying?

Outwardly, I laugh it off as determination and gumption, but inside I feel like an oaf, an uncoordinated one with no talent. I'm the first to admit that I'm not a natural athlete and at 36, I have my age against me.

Advice? Feedback? Help?

[Alicia]

I don't believe that you can not try too hard. Your actions may look mechanical but that's the learning curve. The flow comes after repetition, repetition, repetition.
When you perform as a reaction, you probably do a fairly poor quality jump.

I'm not a figure skater. This is good advice for any sport!!

[Mel On Ice]

well, no, everyone watching was amazed at how good the jump was and I was told to try it again that very same way. I replied I needed Ashley boring down on me to do it.

[flo]

Hi,
There does come a point when you are learning a skill when you will do it by feel, and not have to think out each step. You just have to trust yourself and give yourself credit for what you know how to do. Over-thinking the mechanics of the jump is not productive. I would suggest one "thought" at a time until that's solidly in your skill, then the next one. Imagine if skaters had to mentally review each motion and instruction before executing - we'd never get anything done. Also I do find that some of my best doubles are the first few - then as I try to work on errors, they are not as good, which is ok. If you change the timing/method of something, say a specific point you're working on, it will impact the rest of the skill - for better or worse. It's ok for a bit as you're trying to drill in the new habit, but remember you have to incorporate it back into the whole skill.

[Mel On Ice]

so it's a matter of trusting yourself and having the confidence you know what you are doing?

[flying~camel]

so it's a matter of trusting yourself and having the confidence you know what you are doing?

Easier said then done ;)

[Mel On Ice]

especially when I'm pitching myself into the filing cabinet doing a waltz/loop "in loop position!"

[flying~camel]

especially when I'm pitching myself into the filing cabinet doing a waltz/loop "in loop position!"

"Where are your arms??? I want to see the loop position!" ;)

[flo]

Hi,
Maybe not on the floor - I fall there! On the ice, just go out and do the first few - not sloppy or forgetting everything you learned, just relaxed and with "I've done this before".
You said when you were attempting to jump before crashing into someone, you can do it with "with speed and flow". Here's something to consider. When the jump (speed into) is faster the timing of the jump is slower, and the opposite - when the jump (speed into) is slower, the timing has to be quick - or you'll never have the time to finish your rotation and land. So what's probably happening is that when you go faster (aside from not having the time to conciously think about 100 tips) you have the time to implement what you've been practicing and your body knows what to do.

[Mel On Ice]

"Where are your arms??? "

I don't know! In what context?

[Mrs Redboots]

I believe trying too hard is a very common fault in adult skaters - which is why, sometimes, our coaches will just tell us to "shut up and skate!"

We are apt to over-analyse, which is no bad thing in some ways, but it can hold us back.

[NickiT]

I know exactly what you mean. I have been accused of trying too hard and the crazy thing is that when I relax a bit and don't "think" so much about what it is I'm trying to do, it happens and feels oh so easy. Then I'm thrown back into the trying to hard cycle again because I've done it once and it was easy! I don't think it's unusual to try to hard at skating!

Nicki

[samba]

Try not to focus too much on your age, that can give you a great psychological barrier, I'm not saying go for a triple or anything but be aware of your capabilities and at 36 you can and will do a lutz.

[flo]

Good idea samba. I started after that, and the lutz is one of my favorites!

[nerd_on_ice]

I fall prey to "trying too hard" as well; then I just stiffen up and nothing works. In general I try not to watch the little kids--it's just depressing to see a 6-year-old do a scratch spin that lasts for days when I can barely eke out 3 revs. BUT, watching young beginners helps me because they are so loosey-goosey and relaxed, so I try to make my skating like that. I overanalyze; they don't analyze at all. The happy medium must be in there somewhere.

[doubletoe]

I think there's a difference between "trying too hard" and "thinking too much." For example, I consider "trying too hard" to be something like trying to power a spin instead of just relaxing and holding the entrance edge until you're ready to pull in. But "thinking too much" is a different thing altogether.

I am also told I think too much, but people have no idea what would happen if I didn't think! All I can say is that eventually, things I used to have to think about in detail become things I can do with only one mental cue word, and then eventually, I can just do them by feel. I do my lutz by feel, and my axel and double sal are now down to 2 cue words instead of 5 (now that I've had them for 2-1/2 years!). But after landing my first double toe a year ago, it is still a serious mental deal for me. I have to think myself through every split second of it and STILL abort it most of the time.

Are there any elements you used to have to think about a lot that you no longer have to think about so much? If so, then you will eventually stop having to think about the lutz, too. But if you're like me, everything needs to be understood and translated by your brain before the message is sent to your body, so it just takes awhile until you can stop translating. But let's stop calling 36 "old" shall we? I landed my first axel and first double sal at 37 and I landed my first double toe at 39. I'm trying for my first double loop at 40 but I've got less than 2 months til my 41st birthday so I need to get a move on and being told that 36 is old doesn't help! :roll:

[*IceDancer1419*]

I think ti's not just adults... though i can definitely see it being more adults in general than younger skaters.

I have a LOT of trouble with this too! i was having major issues with my three-turns because I over thought them; I thought so hard about them I'd kind of screw them up. when I was talking to my coach, I did them jsut fine. Go figure. lol...

gotta love it when you make life more complicated! ;)

[Chico]

I've been told I do this. =-) My old coach used to tell me to stop thinking at moments like this. It did work on the norm too! Stop thinking and just feel the skill. Good luck.

Chico

[Sk8pdx]

I think there's a difference between "trying too hard" and "thinking too much." For example, I consider "trying too hard" to be something like trying to power a spin instead of just relaxing and holding the entrance edge until you're ready to pull in. But "thinking too much" is a different thing altogether.

That is a very good point, Doubletoe. :) While there is a difference, they lead to our very own paralysis when combined. There are many times (especially when learning something new) when I get the concept of a jump, spin, or other skating element in my minds eye but from the neck down..the rest of me doesn't get it. :roll:

I also find skating to be a "feeling" sport. Take something simple like spirals. Even spirals don't "feel" like what they "look" like. I often stumble into "over thinking" how to accomplish what I need to do and how a spiral should "feel" in order to get the right "look". This leads to the "trying too hard" part.

In your spin example, as I observe someone else enter a spin, I know what it is supposed to "look" like but when I try to imitate it, I try too hard to think about what "relaxing and holding the entrance edge" ..."feels" like.

I remember thinking how I would ever do crossovers or even skate backwards. Now it just feels like walking. Any time I feel frustrated, I can go to my comfortable place just stroking... :) So I know there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

[blisspix]

trying too hard... definitely. In me, that leads to stiffness, or concentrating too much on one thing, and not another, eg arms over hips. And overly-concentrated expressions.

I'm also a bit of a perfectionist too, so this leads to problems like endless lapping to find a good spot to do a certain jump. Eg axels must come off cross-overs around the centre of the ice, flips must be done diagonally to the corner opposite to my lutz, etc etc etc. madness!! :oops:

Skating is definitely a feel sport, the two best performances I ever had in competition were when I just didn't think or 'try', I let it happen. Extension in spirals felt more natural, spins were better, etc.

Stuff I don't think about now - waltz jumps, crossovers, a certain step sequence I used to do a lot etc. Everything else is still a thinking game. Even three turns, gah.

[skateflo]

Trying Too Hard has been the stumbling block for years for me....when first given directions to learn something new, I just did it without worrying how it looked or felt, and usually was momentarily successful. The TTH started right after that, wanting all the pieces of the puzzle to come together Now! For me I think it was the underlying insecurity of looking like a klutz and failure, thinking that I should be able to master a new move as quickly as the kids I see at the rink. As much as my coach would tell me that everyone has to practice and practice to get a skill looking good, I seem to only see good skills happening on the ice in other skaters - selective viewing. The more I tried on some things the worse they got - I got tense, if I failed even in the push-off, I would stop to start again rather than just keep going. Even when I kept going, mental and physical fatigue quickly set in. It is as if I expect myself to master a skill within 'x' period of time, which may be totally unrealistic, and get tense when time goes on and I don't feel any significant progress. I can laugh about it now, but I remember actually crying at the start of the push-off for a 3-turn because I wanted to do it soooo badly and it wasn't happening.

For me, giving myself permission to make mistakes as part of the learning process seems so hard! I also have had a hard time coming up with consistant cue words for all new elements.....I remember, after viewing a great tape on cue words from Canada and tried it with alternating edges, it really made a difference and gradually I got better at them.

Not all adult skaters are the same, mentally or physically. Some over-analyze each tiny movement....others just fling themselves with abandon. It is very difficult to change our underlying personality and how we approach learning any new skill in life. I also wonder if we think our coach expects us to learn as quickly as kids so we TTH to meet that expectation, when in reality they know each new skill has its own learning curve.....we just don't trust that coach will be patient enough with us.

Just one adult skater's perspective........

[quarkiki2]

I'm right there with you, Mel. Well, not working on a lutz, but stuck in my dang brain. I've got a serious case of not wanting to be uncomfortable on the ice -- so anything that feels a little scary completely throws me. The only way I feel like I can master something is to break it down time and time again into the components. This helps in my overall presentation of "Frankenstein" adult skater.

The only thing I've found that helps me forget about my own feet is being on my Synchro team. If I'm calling the footwork for the team, I completely forget about freaking out about my own feet and then I can do all of the footwork that I can't seem to do when I'm not calling.

I also find that when I'm "marking" something I can do it 100 times better than if I'm really trying to do it. Who knows why...

The hardest thing for me is feeling clumsy on the ice. It makes it very difficult for me to say I have a skill if I'm still feeling clumsy while doing it. I don't feel like I've mastered something until I can feel graceful doing it. I hate looking like an "adult skater" and, therefore, practice and practice basic elements instead of movingon to more difficult things. I'll probably never get to a lutz... But that's OK because all I've ever wanted was to do a camel spin. Maybe someday...

[Sk8pdx]

...The hardest thing for me is feeling clumsy on the ice. It makes it very difficult for me to say I have a skill if I'm still feeling clumsy while doing it. I don't feel like I've mastered something until I can feel graceful doing it. I hate looking like an "adult skater" and, therefore, practice and practice basic elements instead of movingon to more difficult things. I'll probably never get to a lutz... But that's OK because all I've ever wanted was to do a camel spin. Maybe someday...

Me too, regarding feeling clumsy and ungraceful... I decided to take an adult beginning ballet class (our rink has a dance studio upstairs) to help my skating look more "pretty". :)

[Casey]

Whee this sounds familiar...

I'll go to a public session on a Saturday night...the rink is small, the ice is bad, it's crowded and there's no room. But I'll find myself doing pretty well anyways. Then the following Monday I go to a freestyle session...the rink is spacious, the ice is perfect, and there's 2 other people on the ice. But suddenly, I find that my skills have seriously declined. Frustrated, I'll keep working on them, trying to alter this or that detail to get it back to being right. After an hour, 10 more people show up. Suddenly I can skate again. I think it's something about the distraction - having to keep an eye out for people perhaps, or maybe the additional challenge of doing things with less space to spare...whatever it is, I usually skate really poorly when I have the ice to myself, and better the more people there are on it, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

[emma]

I dont think you can ever try to hard. Most coaches love it when a student really tries and works hard on getting a new jump or new move. The harder you work the better you get !!!!! Your body gets the idea when learning something new by trying it over and over.So if that is trying to hard i would keep on doing what you are doing!

[Skate@Delaware]

and there's 2 other people on the ice. But suddenly, I find that my skills have seriously declined. Frustrated, I'll keep working on them, trying to alter this or that detail to get it back to being right. After an hour, 10 more people show up. Suddenly I can skate again. I think it's something about the distraction - having to keep an eye out for people perhaps, or maybe the additional challenge of doing things with less space to spare...
ooooh, I get sooo nervous when there's too many people on the ice!!! especially the little ones!!! egads! they NEVER watch where they are going and I'm not good enough to predict where they will show up next! The mom in me worries that I might hurt them. And I gave up going to the popular Friday and Saturday sessions because of the dangerous hockey kids.

I love being the only one there! I can FOCUS on doing everything without being disturbed, and run down my laundry list of moves. When I'm the only one on the ice, I can get more done!

[e-skater]

I believe trying too hard is a very common fault in adult skaters - which is why, sometimes, our coaches will just tell us to "shut up and skate!"


Annabel, you know it's bad when your friends (and mine are truly evil, I'm convinced, through and through :evil: ;) ) yell it out to you whilst you are skating!!! I've been hearing this one a lot lately!!!! Must be those painful new dramatic program run throughs. I guess you can actually see me ticking off the checklist as I sometimes flow 8O , sometimes halt, through the thing!

[Mrs Redboots]

I dont think you can ever try to hard. Most coaches love it when a student really tries and works hard on getting a new jump or new move. The harder you work the better you get !!!!! Your body gets the idea when learning something new by trying it over and over.So if that is trying to hard i would keep on doing what you are doing!There's a difference between working hard and trying too hard, though. Yes, of course we need to work hard - but sometimes we simply aren't getting the element, and the more we try, the worse it gets (like my cross-cuts this morning, grrrr) until we have to give it up in despair.

Don't forget that, as well as practice making perfect, practice also makes permanent - we don't want to get a mistake ingrained in muscle memory.....