Adult Silver Ladies FS-Elements?

[Integrity]

Hello Everyone:

After not competing for a few years I am putting together a Silver program. What elements do ladies have in their programs today in order to be competitive with the field?

How many jump passes? How many in combination?
How many spins? How many in combination?

Are a lot of Silver ladies doing Axels? I do not have one. :cry:

Thanks a lot!

[pennybeagle]

It somewhat depends on what age group you're in, but here are my planned elements, anyway (for the new Silver II):

Loop
Axel-toe (sometimes replaced by a flip)
Outside spreadeagle-inside ina-Flying camel-Back attitude spin
Lutz-loop
Axel (sometimes replaced by salchow)
Layback
Straightline step into flip
Split jump-falling leaf-salchow-toe
Camel-sit-backsit

So...I guess that's 6 jump passes and 3 spins. You cannot have more than 3 different combination passes (one can be a sequence), and only one of your combination passes can be a 3-jump combo...at least, that's my understanding of the rules.

You do not really need an axel to be competitive. It is nice, but not necessary...unless you are planning to win Silver I at nationals. Also, note that while I have two axels planned in my program, I have never landed two in competition (usually, I get too nervous and botch both of them). :roll:

But seriously, if you haven't competed in a while, don't worry about what other people are doing. Do what you do well, skate a program you like, and do elements that you are comfortable and confident in for your first time back out...and THEN start tweaking it after you have that first competition out of the way. Anyway, that's just my 2 cents (although I'm noted for never taking my own advice).

[doubletoe]

Actually, although you are only allowed 3 jump combinations or sequences, there is no rule limiting how many of those can be 3-jump combos (Take a look at the balaced program rules in the USFS rulebook). I had two 3-jump combos at AN last year and I'm glad I did. The important thing is to only do a 3-jump combo if you can execute all 3 jumps equally well and have outflow coming out of the last one. If you can't do that, you'll be better off with a 2-jump combo executed cleanly.

There was a broad range of difficulty levels at AN last year, and of the 40 ladies in Silver II (now Silver III after the reclassification), there were only 2 or 3 clean axels in the final round. So it's really not about the axel. There were a lot of Silver ladies who made final round just by executing simple elements cleanly. If you limit your elements to what you can do well, skate clean, and work on speed and flow, you should be able to make it to final round.

[NaomiBeth1]

There was a broad range of difficulty levels at AN last year, and of the 40 ladies in Silver II (now Silver III after the reclassification), there were only 2 or 3 clean axels in the final round.

I agree! And in Silver I (now Silver II), very few woman (incl. myself) had clean axels. I would also say less than 5. PennyBeagle - you were definately one of the few that had a beautiful axel in competition.

In terms of spins, lots of individuals fell out of there spins at nationals last year (especially camels). Well-Balanced Program is the key.

[skatingatty]

I'd say most of the women in the younger age groups attempt axels, but many (incl. myself) don't land them cleanly. You don't have to do an axel to place at the top if everything else is good. I'll be in Silver II and at this time, I plan to only attempt one axel, b/c I don't want to keep worrying about 2 attempts and possibly mess up the program, run out of time scrambling to get up off the ice, etc. :) I plan to do a lutz-loop-loop, flip-loop-loop, footwork to lutz, salchow, stag jump into toe, hydroblade into loop-- all of which is speculative because my new coach is going to help re-do the choreography this week! Having lessons again is really motivating me to practice more, and I'm getting less winded after practicing now.

BTW, which spin combo do you guys think is more difficult/impressive to the judges: camel-sit-Y spin-back sit or camel-sit-layback-back sit?

[singerskates]

Actually, although you are only allowed 3 jump combinations or sequences, there is no rule limiting how many of those can be 3-jump combos (Take a look at the balaced program rules in the USFS rulebook). I had two 3-jump combos at AN last year and I'm glad I did. The important thing is to only do a 3-jump combo if you can execute all 3 jumps equally well and have outflow coming out of the last one. If you can't do that, you'll be better off with a 2-jump combo executed cleanly.

There was a broad range of difficulty levels at AN last year, and of the 40 ladies in Silver II (now Silver III after the reclassification), there were only 2 or 3 clean axels in the final round. So it's really not about the axel. There were a lot of Silver ladies who made final round just by executing simple elements cleanly. If you limit your elements to what you can do well, skate clean, and work on speed and flow, you should be able to make it to final round.


The person who responded second to this thread is probably Canadian. At our Canadian Adult Nationals we are only allowed 6 jumping passes in our Silver level which is actually equivalent to Adult US Gold. Our Adult Levels are Preliminary, Bronze (reg. Can. Junior Bronze, US Adult Silver), Silver (reg. Can. Senior Bronze, US Adult Gold), Gold (reg. Junior Silver and higher, US Adult Masters Novice and higher). I hope they separate the adults in Gold for 2007 Adult Canadians into Gold (reg. Junior Silver, US Adult Novice), Masters 1 (reg. Senior Silver, US Adult Junior) and Masters 2 (reg. Gold, US Adult Seniors).

Brigitte

[techskater]

Penny Beagle and Double Toe are both people who went to US AN's last year. It just happens that when you look at well balanced program requirements and the time alotment, 6 jump passes with no more than 3 combo/sequences and and three spins with footwork, connecting steps, etc are about all you can fit in a 2:10 program

[vesperholly]

I will be competing in Silver I this year. My planned elements, so far, are:

lutz-loop
axel
camel-layback-back sit
flip-loop
footwork into lutz
flying camel
circular footwork
salchow-BO3-mohawk-flip

I need another spin and a toe loop somewhere (I HATE toe loops). All my singles are solid but my axel is not consistent. I am hoping to have a small spread eagle somewhere. I am not open hipped but I have been working on them and they seem better. What I really need to focus on is stamina so the end of my program is as strong as the beginning. When I start looking all droopy and blah :oops:

I am very curious to know what other Silver I skaters look like. An elements list isn't very revealing about the quality of skating.

[doubletoe]

I will be competing in Silver I this year. My planned elements, so far, are:

lutz-loop
axel
camel-layback-back sit
flip-loop
footwork into lutz
flying camel
circular footwork
salchow-BO3-mohawk-flip

I need another spin and a toe loop somewhere (I HATE toe loops). All my singles are solid but my axel is not consistent. I am hoping to have a small spread eagle somewhere. I am not open hipped but I have been working on them and they seem better. What I really need to focus on is stamina so the end of my program is as strong as the beginning. When I start looking all droopy and blah :oops:

I am very curious to know what other Silver I skaters look like. An elements list isn't very revealing about the quality of skating.

Personally, I would hold off on putting the spread eagle in your program until you have a really impressive one. It isn't worth any points like a jump or spin, so if it isn't gorgeous, all it is likely to do is hurt your presentation marks.

If you feel like you need a toeloop, why not just add it onto the flip-loop or lutz-loop, so that you'll still get credit for the 2-jump combination even if you mess up the toeloop. I used to hate toeloops, too, but they got a lot better once I was forced to work on the takeoff for the double toe. For a solid toeloop, just remember to (1) pick a little to the outside, not straight behind your skating foot, (2) make sure you are still facing backward when the toepick goes into the ice, and (3) take the time to get your weight onto the toe before jumping off it.

[vesperholly]

Personally, I would hold off on putting the spread eagle in your program until you have a really impressive one. It isn't worth any points like a jump or spin, so if it isn't gorgeous, all it is likely to do is hurt your presentation marks.
That's why I said small. :) I doubt one semi-unattractive move would be enough to hurt presentation marks in any appreciable manner. If I put it in my program, it will force me to work on it to make it look good. I probably won't though, because I want all the connecting moves in my program to be really comfortable and reliable, and spread eagles just aren't yet.

If you feel like you need a toeloop, why not just add it onto the flip-loop or lutz-loop, so that you'll still get credit for the 2-jump combination even if you mess up the toeloop. I used to hate toeloops, too, but they got a lot better once I was forced to work on the takeoff for the double toe. For a solid toeloop, just remember to (1) pick a little to the outside, not straight behind your skating foot, (2) make sure you are still facing backward when the toepick goes into the ice, and (3) take the time to get your weight onto the toe before jumping off it.
My toe loops are solid enough. I just don't like the feel of them. I like the "pop" of loops better.

[doubletoe]

That's why I said small. :) I doubt one semi-unattractive move would be enough to hurt presentation marks in any appreciable manner. If I put it in my program, it will force me to work on it to make it look good. I probably won't though, because I want all the connecting moves in my program to be really comfortable and reliable, and spread eagles just aren't yet.
That's true. When you have something in your program, it does force you to work on it and make it better.

My toe loops are solid enough. I just don't like the feel of them. I like the "pop" of loops better.
I know what you mean. I've always hated single toes, too. They almost feel like a non-jump and were always just sort of a necessary evil. . .

[doubletoe]

Oops, my reply to your comment about the spread eagle got buried in the quoted part! I meant to say,

"That's true. When you have something in your program, it does force you to work on it and make it better."

[skatingatty]

I am very curious to know what other Silver I skaters look like. An elements list isn't very revealing about the quality of skating.

I'm not in Silver I anymore, but it all depends on who shows up to the competition. Most Silver I competitors can land the single jumps cleanly with flow on the landings and some height (i.e, none of the halt-twist-step over type jumps beginners who are scared of jumping tend to do). I feel like I'm goin' fast when I skate, but blah, after I see it on video I see how much slower I really am going. I can do a layback with 7 revs. but it travels, and my butt's not low enough in a slow back sit. My "flying" camel gets at most 2 slow revs. so I'm not going to attempt one unless something drastically changes by next Feb. There's a big difference when I see the gold and masters skaters. They're a lot faster with easy knee bends, better posture, better and faster spin positions, and more height in jumps.

[JulieN]

If I compete, it will be in Silver III (yikes!). I don't think I'll have time to come up with a new program, so it would be with a lengthened version of my Bronze '04 program. Unless we wind up totally re-choreographing it, the elements will be:

back scratch spin
LFI spiral change edge into LFO spiral (might change to outside ina into spiral)
loop/loop
outside spreadeagle into inside spreadeagle into layback/back sit
falling leaf/toe loop (maybe add a salchow in this combo)
lutz
camel/sit/back sit
diagonal footwork into flip
flying camel (this is in my dreams... :roll:)
lutz/loop/loop

Right now the flying camel is still a figment of my imagination. If it doesn't happen, I will add a forward scratch spin to the ending instead. For Silver III (former Silver II), can I be competitive without an axel and flying spin?

[flo]

I've had some experience competing at Nats. I've competed in 5 fs events at nationals and medaled twice, and except for once, have always made finals. I've always figured that, except perhaps for the axel, we will all have the same jumps and spins, so it's a matter of doing what you do well. I think that's even more the case now, as the required or suggested elements have become more standardized. I think the new scoring system will help the adults as far as the concept of an entire program being rewarded. Weather the new system is specifically used for adults or not, the judges at Nationals will have used it. As it is many of the judges do not really judge the adults and kids differently with the same system, so I don't really expect them to use two different systems.

So I would suggest to not worry about the specific elements, but highlight your strengths and do what you do well.

[Mel On Ice]

I will be competing in Silver I this year.

is GC buddy and dinner companion going to AN this year!?

[vesperholly]

is GC buddy and dinner companion going to AN this year!?
You know it!!! (that is, once I pass the Silver FS test) :mrgreen: Will you be there?

[vesperholly]

Those who have taken Silver FS - what did you do for your sequence? I am planning flip-falling leaf-loop but I am thinking about possibly switching it, mostly because I'm worried that it isn't enough of a sequence with the falling leaf in it (which necessitates a FI 3-turn before the loop).

[singerskates]

Why not do a loop/ half loop/ flip?

[NaomiBeth1]

Those who have taken Silver FS - what did you do for your sequence? I am planning flip-falling leaf-loop but I am thinking about possibly switching it, mostly because I'm worried that it isn't enough of a sequence with the falling leaf in it (which necessitates a FI 3-turn before the loop).

For the Silver FS test, I recall a lot of people doing a waltz-half loop-salchow. Not a huge fan of the waltz, I instead did a loop-half loop-salchow for the test. I do sometimes substitute the flip for the salchow, but that is much much harder.

[LoopLoop]

For my silver test, I did flip-half loop-sal-toe loop as the sequence.

[Spreadeagle]

I did split-flip-mazurka-flip for my sequence on the silver FS test.

I always thought that was a weird requirement. Though it seems to get us to come up with creative choreography!

[flo]

I like a falling leaf,1/2flip, 1/2 flip, flip loop.

[NoVa Sk8r]

Those who have taken Silver FS - what did you do for your sequence? I am planning flip-falling leaf-loop but I am thinking about possibly switching it, mostly because I'm worried that it isn't enough of a sequence with the falling leaf in it (which necessitates a FI 3-turn before the loop).It's fine as a sequence.
USFS remarks:
"Jump sequence may consist of any number of jumps of any number of revolutions linked by hops and turns immediately following each other. There cannot be more than one revolution on the ice between any hop or jump, the sequence must have a constant rhythm and there can be no crossovers during the sequence.
-If there is more than one revolution between any hop or jump, or if there are crossovers, then the jumps shall be considered two separate jump elements with connecting steps or transitions and shall take up two of the skater’s allowed jump elements.
-Sequences which contain only Unclassified Jumps, including jumps of less than one revolution performed as part of connecting footwork are permitted and are not considered to be jump elements (split jump, falling leaf, stag, half loop, etc.)."

Please note, however, that a "jump sequence," consisting of only one listed jump together with other nonlisted jumps is not considered a jump-sequence but will count as a single jump.
For example, a falling leaf into a salchow is only counted as a single jump. The nonlisted jump must link two (or more) listed jumps.

[doubletoe]

Those who have taken Silver FS - what did you do for your sequence? I am planning flip-falling leaf-loop but I am thinking about possibly switching it, mostly because I'm worried that it isn't enough of a sequence with the falling leaf in it (which necessitates a FI 3-turn before the loop).

That's a textbook jump sequence, so if you like it, do it! Or if you want something ridiculously easy, you can do what I did on my test, which was a single jump immediately followed by a waltz jump-loop. (I did a lutz-waltz-loop but you could do a flip-waltz-loop). I think a flip-waltz-loop would offer you a lower risk of screwing up because you don't have to land the flip with the free foot in front, then take off from the same foot right away.

[doubletoe]

I like a falling leaf,1/2flip, 1/2 flip, flip loop.

That actually wouldn't be considered a jump sequence; it would be considered footwork into a combination jump.

[doubletoe]

For Silver III (former Silver II), can I be competitive without an axel and flying spin?

I would beef up the falling leaf-toeloop to add a jump before the falling leaf (otherwise it's not considered a jump combo). But other than that, you should make it to final round with those elements if you just skate it clean and with good flow. This year I won AN at Silver II (now Silver III) with no flying camel and it was just as well that I didn't attempt one because 2 of the 3 skaters who came in right behind me attempted a flying camel and missed it. That happens a lot. . . ;)

[pennybeagle]

I would beef up the falling leaf-toeloop to add a jump before the falling leaf (otherwise it's not considered a jump combo). But other than that, you should make it to final round with those elements if you just skate it clean and with good flow. This year I won AN at Silver II (now Silver III) with no flying camel and it was just as well that I didn't attempt one because 2 of the 3 skaters who came in right behind me attempted a flying camel and missed it. That happens a lot. . . ;)


Ahhh...now I know who you are! ;) I saw you skate in the final round--you were great! And if I recall correctly...didn't you have that awesome axel-loop-loop?!?!