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Isk8NYC
11-04-2005, 09:02 PM
I'm taking a page out of Patsy's book and starting an ongoing thread for coaches. I'm not sure how many coaches are on this board, but it seems like there are a lot of them. Here's a place to discuss our teachings, sort of like the weekly Good/Bad thread in the "On Ice" section. Try to be discreet, so no one recognizes their children.

Tell us the good, the bad, and the ugly. What did you try that's new for you? Did it work? Why / Why Not? Vent if you need to, but again, be discreet.

Enjoy.

Isk8NYC
11-04-2005, 09:08 PM
I had a lot of fun today. One of my twins' friends had a skating party at my home rink, so I volunteered to help out with the rookies. (They didn't plan to hire an instructor.) I had a blast! I basically wandered around, helping and teaching. I showed a few kids how to do a two-foot spin, then I realized a bunch of them weren't even with the birthday party group! They were just so thirsty to learn, how could I turn them away? Not me.

I taught one little girl how to skate forwards and backwards. Just marching, gliding and wiggles, but it was astounding how well she did because it was her first time ice-skating! Oddly enough, another little girl came up to say a big hello to me. It was a darling girl who I had for Mommy & Me a few years ago. Kid's a prodigy, too: DBNY had her doing swizzles by the end of her first lesson! (DB's pretty good, too.)

Several people asked about private lessons, but I feel like I'm fishing in a barrel: they're all parents with kids in my children's classes. Could be a problem if we have a conflict. What do you think?

frvanilla
11-05-2005, 06:36 PM
Good one~ just came home crippled from 5 hrs of instructional skating...

The good:
Yesterday one of our little boy in the program called my head instructor #1 "Mrs. Furyboots", refering to her fury boot covers! How cute!!!

I got a good bunch of kids this year who were always listening and asking questions. :)

The new:
Head instructor #2 skated by when I was teaching backward inside edges and told me a way to cheat on a it -- just to get a start.

Instead of facing away from the path and doing that "awkward" T-push to start with, you start with doing backward double scullings, and then you lift one leg up and you get the backward inside edge!!! :bow: :bow: :bow:

(Yes, then she got the not fair complain from me coz she used to coach me over 10 years ago and I was never taught to cheat!)

Isk8NYC
11-06-2005, 08:08 AM
That's a great tip to get them started on back edges. How do they hold up their free foot? I teach them to "present" their free foot by stretching it out to their front but they struggle with it at first.

I sort of "cheat" when I introduce backward skating. I start by having them line up on the wall, bend their knees, then "blast off" by pushing with their arms. Then, they just glide. Beginners never go more than a foot or two and I "spot" the scared ones. To keep them from "splatting" forward, I tell them to push off and point at their nose in the glass with both arms. For tiny ones, I put a sticker on the wall as a "PUSH AND POINT" target since they can't see in the glass. They take the sticker with them later.

After they've mastered the back push/glide, I tell them to "blast off" and "do the twist" which gets them wiggling across the ice! That little boost makes it so much easier to get them going. After a few tries, I take them to the middle and do the wiggles without the push. It's still hard, but not too bad.

phoenix
11-06-2005, 08:34 AM
great tips on getting them going backward!

We started a new 8 week session yesterday & I have a class of beginning adults that are going to be a ton of fun! By some miraculous divine intervention, all 8 of them are very similar in level, even though a few have never set foot on the ice before. They all learn fast, & all did very respectable bkwd swizzles, forward skating & gliding, & standing 2 foot turns by the end of class. I also introduced 1 foot glides & a few are already doing those quite comfortably. I love the adult classes!

One of my little private students is starting to learn mohawks--any one have any good tips for teaching them? I usually draw on the ice but right now we've been banned from using markers due to an upcoming speedskating competition. I have her doing a small spread eagle & then lifting up the back foot, because she totally was not understanding how to turn the foot & set it down backward. (she's 6 btw)

AshBugg44
11-06-2005, 10:56 AM
Today was the last week of classes, so I won't get to see a lot of the kids again. I had some adorable kids in some of my classes, and only 3 kids out of my 4 classes did not pass. Yesterday I was actually working at the ice rink as a cashier, and we kept getting asked if anyone could teach their kid a private so I had to keep clocking out and ended up teaching an hour and 15 minutes worth of privates! Woohoo!

frvanilla
11-06-2005, 08:32 PM
That's a great tip to get them started on back edges. How do they hold up their free foot? I teach them to "present" their free foot by stretching it out to their front but they struggle with it at first.
It is always tricky to hold up their free foot.

The way I do it is to have the kids first practice backward one foot glide. I tell them first suck in their tummy to stand up straight and pretend there are magnets on their knees. When they hold that free leg up after a C-push they will "snap" their knees tightly together and stretch it plus point their toes.

A very helpful way to balance to through all the edges and backward one foot glide is to put their weight on the skating leg, lean on it, and sit on the hip of the skating leg just like a chair.

Then for the hands part on all the edges, I usually let them experiment a "no change of hands" and go out of whack. Then I tell them their shoulders are their steering wheel. When they feel they are skating away from the circle (at the third count), steer their shoulders to where they want to go, ie. into the circle.

Isk8NYC
11-09-2005, 07:33 AM
How about tips on beating the "Skater Shuffle Syndrome?" You know - where the kids REFUSE to take their blades off the ice.

One little girl told me that Grandma said that her feet were supposed to slide, so she was determined to keep both feet on the ice at all times. I tried to reason with a four-year old (dumb idea) and told her that real skaters don't do that, watch the big kids or the TV shows and you'll see that. Nada. Kid was a bit bratty anyway, I think she just liked getting my goat. Too bad, though. I couldn't pass her out of Snowplow Sam 1 -- Marching's a required element.

So, what causes beginners to shuffle along without lifting their feet?
What can we do to combat it from the start?
How do you change the behavior permanently?

blue111moon
11-09-2005, 07:43 AM
I'm teaching two extremes this year - Kids Just Off Cones and an Beginner Adult class. The first is pretty much of a Monkey-See-Monkey-do group - they'll copy whatever I do regardless of what I'm asking them to do. The Adults are mostly moms of kids in the program with a wide array of abilities - everything from First-time-wall-clingers to I'm ready-for-back-crossovers. But they're a fun group and it's nice for me to be able to explain WHY something is done the way it is.

Isk8NYC
11-09-2005, 07:44 AM
One of my little private students is starting to learn mohawks--any one have any good tips for teaching them? ... I have her doing a small spread eagle & then lifting up the back foot, because she totally was not understanding how to turn the foot & set it down backward. (she's 6 btw)

Never tried a spread eagle for mohawks.

I usually teach mohawks off-ice or along the wall for beginners, so they get the "toes go here" thing without too much danger.

They really have to check the turn, both before and after. I teach the arms and shoulders as "use a balancing pole while you change feet." The "pole" keeps them from swinging their arms all over the place. I have a modified hockey stick handle I use for teaching this and three turns. If they hold the ends, you can give them support while they check their arms. An imaginary one works pretty well, too.

Emphasize that the free foot "slides" into place near the instep of the skating foot, heel first.

Isk8NYC
11-13-2005, 12:21 PM
We're nearing the end of our first group lesson session, so I did testing this week. They love getting the USFS Basic Skills books with the stickers, but they can never find them for the next session! (The idea is to keep the book as you move up and have the instructors sign as you master each level.) I told them to keep the books in their skate bags. Next session, I'm printing up labels that say that and sticking them right on the envelopes!

My Snowplow Sam 1 class did well; everyone passed that level. Two of the kids are absolutely wild and fearless; they should really move up to SS2/Basic 2. I made notes on my test sheets and the attendance sheets for the Director.

My Basic 4/5 class, which includes two girls that belonged in a Basic 5/6 class, all moved up. The stronger skaters had to repeat some of the lower-level maneuvers, but they had really mastered them by the end of the class.

phoenix
11-13-2005, 01:45 PM
Ugh I'm dreading my adult class tonight, & usually I look forward to them. While my Saturday class is great, the Sunday one has 3 people, a wife/husband/father trio, who obviously have no interest in learning anything. I don't know why they bothered to sign up for LESSONS when they didn't listen to a single thing I did with the class last week, snickered at me as I was talking to the class, and openly talked to each other---about me!--when I was standing right there. Not to mention that this is an adult 2/3 level, & none of them knew how to skate backwards!

I really don't care if adults in a class ignore me & want to go off & do their own thing, though it's an abysmal waste of money, but I've never ever had anyone be so downright rude before. I was so flabbergasted I didn't even know what to say. So I've had a week to polish my little "speech" they're going to get if they pull it again today. Not to mention that I'm not going to waste my time w/ them when there are other people in the class who actually are there to learn. Geez, if these were kids I'd be talking to their parents. The one guy has to be at least in his 50's--grow UP!! :x :frus:

Debbie S
11-13-2005, 04:15 PM
Yuck, phoenix, that sounds frustrating (I'm not a coach, btw, just reading). I used to be a teacher and during a back to school night, two mothers sat there and talked the entire time I did. And it was a small class, and not everyone's parents came, so it was maybe 10 parents - so the talkers could definitely be heard - they weren't even whispering! They didn't seem to be talking about me, but it was kind of annoying when I standing up there explaining the curriculum and the textbooks, etc, and they're just going off.

And these women's kids were also "talkers". Sheesh, you can figure out where they got their respect for others from. :roll:

Isk8NYC
11-13-2005, 08:06 PM
I've taught computers as an adjunct instructor in Continuing Education classes, so I can sympathize. I've had people in their 40's blatantly mock me, view porn sites, and hold instant-messenger conversations during classes. Sadly, these were people who held "real" jobs such as firefighters, teachers, and EMT's.

Keep your head up and try to separate the troublemakers. There's strength in numbers, so keep 'em apart. Try doing some relay races and put them on separate teams so they have to compete. And, be sure to make the races have backward skating in them, so they're blown away by the others.

Isk8NYC
11-18-2005, 09:26 AM
I have a great private student that's really starting to take off. He's a boy, so he's kind of reluctant to learn any spins or jumps, so I've focusing on speed, turns, and stops. Kid's got great balance and coordination. Hopefully, he'll stick with skating after his birthday party next month.

Yesterday's groups were great! It was the last week of the session, and I did all my testing and handouts last week, so we just played. I used a variation of the "all fall down" on my beginners. I held their hands, one at a time, and had them sit on the ice to practice falling. Then, I gave them a boost as they were about to touch the ice, so they slid a few feet. The laughs and giggles were so great! We called it "Sit and Slide!" and did it for a good five minutes. I mainly did it to help out the stiffest beginner - this child is going to break something if she falls. I think it's real fear, but she doesn't have a bent joint in her whole body. She's a shuffler, even with good skates, but it takes her the whole 1/2 hour just to get moving on her own. She really didn't even pass Snowplow 1 because she just won't march for me.

My Basic 4/5/6 class was fun. We just played with lunges and spirals - I taught them back spirals, which was great. We worked on Toe Taps, which the higher level girls mastered in a heartbeat. Most of the lower-level kids picked it up by the end of class. I also had three of the four do a decent waltz jump for the first time ever! Love it when things go right!

frvanilla
11-18-2005, 10:02 PM
Yesterday a girl fell on her wrist when we were learning the 2-foot spin. It was swollen up like a big ball and her mom was taking her to a X-Ray clinic. I really hope that it was going to be a sprain and not a break, with my fingers crossed. :(

Then today I got this spoiled 4 years old who talked S**T to us. He said to my Head Instructor, "I don't like you so I'm not going to skate." Then 15 minutes into lesson he "TOLD" me to open the door so he could go to his mom. Of course I'm not giving in to him. When it was time to go, he yelled at me, "it is ALL your fault that I can't go home." CRAP! What a spoiled and rotten kid!!! Next week I won't sweat if he fall flat on his face! And if he wants to go home, he is going to skate to the door and open it up himself. I ain't gonna help! :twisted:

[Edited 6/15/2006 to remove profanity. Isk8NYC]

frvanilla
11-18-2005, 10:19 PM
How about tips on beating the "Skater Shuffle Syndrome?" You know - where the kids REFUSE to take their blades off the ice.

One little girl told me that Grandma said that her feet were supposed to slide, so she was determined to keep both feet on the ice at all times. I tried to reason with a four-year old (dumb idea) and told her that real skaters don't do that, watch the big kids or the TV shows and you'll see that. Nada. Kid was a bit bratty anyway, I think she just liked getting my goat. Too bad, though. I couldn't pass her out of Snowplow Sam 1 -- Marching's a required element.

So, what causes beginners to shuffle along without lifting their feet?
What can we do to combat it from the start?
How do you change the behavior permanently?
Oh, don't you hate it when parents tell the kids the wrong thing? I saw parents who tell their kids to skate with their toe picks, stop with their heels, and shuffle on the ice. (Why don't you take my job smart-axx~) :evil:

I think sometimes this is a security issue.
What happened when you hold their hands? Are they willing to pick their feet up?
For some kids, I think it takes some time to get over the fear. I found most of the kids will eventually grow over it.

Yesterday I told the kids that we are having a contest. You have to tap the loudest to win. It worked some how, at least two who weren't picking up their feet were taping their toes, but when I'm not loooking they started shuffling again. :evil:

Another time you'll find them flying on this ice and doing a good job is when you tell them it's home time. :evil:

Isk8NYC
11-30-2005, 02:37 PM
I have a 9yo boy who's just starting out. His parents BOTH took lessons from me this past Saturday, along with a friend of theirs. I loved it - it's fun teaching adults, although the Dad has over a foot of height on me!

Our Sunday general sessions are pretty empty, and I'm hoping to start picking up some more lessons on that day. I (finally) found my insurance paperwork, so I'm going to set up privates at another rink nearby on Saturdays.

Isk8NYC
12-05-2005, 04:12 PM
I think sometimes this is a security issue.
What happened when you hold their hands? Are they willing to pick their feet up?

You're probably right: it's a security issue. I had this yesterday with a nine-year old girl. I tried retying her skates (loose to start with) and holding her hands. Still shuffling along unless I nagged her to pick up her feet. If no one held her hand, she would pull herself along the wall where the ice is at it's worst.

The worst part: whenever she lost her balance, she just PANICKED and started flailing around. She gave me such a kick in the knee, I'm black-and-blue!

On the other side of the coin, I had a new 4-yr old who was skating just fine, thank you, while wearing Modell's specials. She was absolutely delighted to be skating (first time) and she was absolutely delightful. Just did everything I asked, somethings before I even demonstrated or explained. Love the child, hope her Mom decides to stick with the lessons.

AshBugg44
12-08-2005, 12:52 PM
Does anyone have any tricks and tips for getting brand-new skaters to keep their arms still? Some kids just can't manage to keep them still, which result in lots of falling! Any tips?

frvanilla
12-08-2005, 01:54 PM
Does anyone have any tricks and tips for getting brand-new skaters to keep their arms still? Some kids just can't manage to keep them still, which result in lots of falling! Any tips?
This is what I always said to the kids, especially the beginners/walkers.

"Let's rub some super glue on our hands."
"And then we are going to stick our hands to the table and push the table forward."
"Hold on tight to the table or else you'll fall."
"If your hands are moving, it means that you didn't put enough glue on your hands! Let's rub in some more."

My students always find the "super glue" idea very funny. :lol:
Um... in the mean time, excuse me for talking like a 6yo. :giveup:

Isk8NYC
12-09-2005, 07:08 AM
Some kids just like to flail when they fall or even just moving forward. I think a lot of it is tied to weak/poorly fitting/loose skates: if their feet can't move easily, they use their arms and upper body to go forward. If they're old enough, tell them that their arms are making the fall worse. The key words I use with older kids is "keep your hands where you can see them, on the table." For little ones, try telling them to push a shopping cart or ride their scooters.

For a drill, try putting small beanie babies on the backs of their hands and see who can get across the ice without dropping them. Some people recommend coins, but they freeze to the ice instantly. You have to scrape 'em out before anyone gets hurt!

Isk8NYC
12-09-2005, 08:18 AM
Stiff knees: yeah, you tell 'em again and again to bend their knees and still some kids look like stick figures. One little girl who just returned to my group yesterday looks like she hyperextends her knees: it makes my knees hurt to watch her. She's not afraid of falling, as far as I can tell.

She can do a dip, and even a two-footed shoot-the-duck. But, she has to be constantly watched for those stiff knees. Could it be her skates? They're Modell specials and they look a bit big. What do you think?

AshBugg44
12-11-2005, 06:13 PM
This is what I always said to the kids, especially the beginners/walkers.

"Let's rub some super glue on our hands."
"And then we are going to stick our hands to the table and push the table forward."
"Hold on tight to the table or else you'll fall."
"If your hands are moving, it means that you didn't put enough glue on your hands! Let's rub in some more."

My students always find the "super glue" idea very funny. :lol:
Um... in the mean time, excuse me for talking like a 6yo. :giveup:

I use that when I teach them to little jumps, when I want them to put their hands on their knees!

frvanilla
01-07-2006, 10:30 PM
Just curious, what is a dip and a two-footed shoot-the-duck?

I'm not sure if this will help but may be you can give it a try for stiff knees, tell the kids to put their knees together and keep their hands on their knees while skating forward.
(I also do it for backward skating because I find this very helpful to keep their upper body squared.)


Spend the whole week at the rink and today is the worst of all. :evil:

dbny
01-08-2006, 02:51 PM
First a little rant: For two weeks in a row, my Sunday 10 AM group has been totally messed up. All the kids on my list are already in someone else's class. I end up with one kid! Telling the director does nothing, as she is totally disorganized. Today we started a new Snowplow 1 class at 11 AM. We had about 15 kids. I did the initial off-ice part, then I and two other coaches got the kids out to the lesson area in the back. By the time I arrived, wtih the slowest and most difficult child, another coach was dividing the kids into classes. I got three kids who could not stand up or get off the wall!!! I don't mind except that it looks bad that the other classes are all marching etc, while my class in spending all their time being coaxed off the wall and helped up off the ice. One poor little girl, of 6, but as big as a large 8 yr old, was literally scared stiff. I ended up giving her a private lesson by escorting her from the lesson area to the front of the rink after the group. She needed it, and her mom was very grateful, but OMG, it was super tiring! A class like that really needs a helper, but if the helpers are not trained, it does no good.



Stiff knees: I tell the kids (adults too) to push their knees over their toes. If the edges are surfaced properly, you can also have students face the boards and touch their knees to the wall.

Shuffling: Once I see that the student is able to pick up both feet, but isn't doing it for whatever reason, I race them with special rules. The rules are that the student has to keep hands on table, look at the finish line (usually the wall or a line of cones), and must pick up both feet. As long as the student does this, I cannot pass him/her. I skate just behind, stomping my feet and calling out things like "head up, or I'm going to pass you", "both feet, I'm right behind you". It's amazing how many kids do their best skating in this kind of silly race. At the end, of course, they are all winners, and I make a big deal out of it. I do this with both private lessons and groups whenever possible.

Keeping upper body still: I use the "glue your hands down" also, actually putting imaginary glue on each hand and placing hands where they should be. I also sometimes tell a student that their feet already know what to do, so don't think about anything except keeping hands on the table. Then we race, as above, and it works pretty well.

Generally getting them moving: It's hard to do this with more than one or two at a time, but I have a plush Jack-o-lantern that I play ball with. Just tossing him (Mr. Pumpkinhead) back and forth gets hands in front and a more relaxed movement on the ice. If the student is working on swizzles, I have them do a swizzle over the ball every time they, or I, miss a catch. This also works well for the ones who are afraid to let go, but you know they are capable. We start just handing the ball back and forth, and then gradually move away and toss the ball a short distance.

Isk8NYC
01-09-2006, 03:18 PM
I have an interesting progression happening in my weekend privates.


About three weeks ago, a 6-yr old girl started private lessons. She mentioned that she'd be going to a birthday party at the rink in a few weeks. She's a low-level beginner, but she tries really hard. The parents picked up a pair of the softskates for her for a song, but I'm not sure I like them. In any case, she's still learning how to glide and push. She did master stopping this week, but she can't glide for more than a foot. (Stumbles and falls.)

Over Christmas break, a friend of her also started lessons with me based on the first kid's parents' referral. She's also going to this skating party. This girl glides like anything and has terrific balance, even in the sock-like Modell Specials she's wearing! We're working on turning and stopping: she mastered a snowplow stop with a skid on her first lesson!

Last week, I met the birthday girl and the kid skates beautifully! She's working on spirals, but pushes with her toes. Very polite and friendly. I assumed she was already in lessons, but this week, her mother asked me about lessons for her two daughters!

Interesting: everyone's taking lessons because of this party and each new student has more skills than the earlier one. Can't wait to see what happens after next week's party!

BTW: a "dip" is just a knee-bend. We teach them standing still and moving. A two-foot shoot-the-duck is a glide with a much deeper knee bend.

dbny
01-09-2006, 04:03 PM
Interesting: everyone's taking lessons because of this party and each new student has more skills than the earlier one. Can't wait to see what happens after next week's party!


That's actually how a lot of kids get interested in skating lessons. That's how I got started with roller dance. It is an interesting coincidence that the kids have progressively better skills.

I have a situation that's making me a bit uneasy with two students that have been having lessons together. This is their third season with me. They don't skate after the outdoor rink closes. When they started, H was clearly better than D. D was stiff and scared, while H was flexible and not at all scared. About mid-way through the second season, H started complaining about her skates to the point that I suggested to her mom buying the Jackson Softec, which H had received already as a hand-me-down. Once D got the new skates, she started progressing very rapidly. At that point, it also became apparant that D was very interested in learning everything, and always paid close attention to my demos and what I was saying, while H was always looking at whatever was going on in the rink and generally spacing out a lot. You guessed it, H has surpassed D in spite of having less natural ability. H is really starting to look like a skater, playing around, figuring things out for herself, and spinning very nicely. The uncomfortable part for me is that if this continues, it's going to be very hard to teach the two of them together and do justice for both. They will be 9 this year and are in school together. The moms are friends and occasionally have a lesson with me also. Since this is just a seasonal passtime for them all, I don't think anyone is going to complain that I'm not giving enough attention to one or the other, but the kids are bound to notice when I have to give them different things to do. It also will not be so much fun for them then.

mdvask8r
01-09-2006, 09:06 PM
. . . You guessed it, H has surpassed D in spite of having less natural ability. . .
Maybe you could use this situation to motivate D to work harder so she can continue to share this lesson without holding her friend back.

dbny
01-10-2006, 11:38 AM
Maybe you could use this situation to motivate D to work harder so she can continue to share this lesson without holding her friend back.

I would love to be able to do that, but I'm stumped as to how to encourage D without hurting her feelings. I don't think comparing their progress would be a positive thing for either of them. Any ideas on encouraging while avoiding comparisons? For that matter, maybe I just need something new to grab D's attention.

Isk8NYC
01-10-2006, 03:15 PM
The uncomfortable part for me is that if this continues, it's going to be very hard to teach the two of them together and do justice for both.

I just addressed this with one of my semi privates. One girl can barely glide, the other's whipping around the ice like a speed demon. I just wanted the parents to be aware that I would manage the situation by giving them different, but similar, skills to work on. So, one does two-foot glides and the other starts working on onesies. The Moms were fine with the situation: they just wanted the girls to have fun together.

You have to talk to the parents. Maybe they've noticed the skill gap. You know you can manage the two together, you just want to explain why you'll be giving them different tasks. See how the Moms feel about the shared lesson. It's better if you bring it to their attention and defuse the situation before the kids figure it out.

BTW, if you don't mind my asking, I usually charge the same for one student as for two in a lesson. (More than two's a different situation, IMO) My logic is that two kids are more likely to stick with the lessons and (hopefully) turn into two separate, higher-level lessons down the road. Anybody else have a different rate or viewpoint?

dbny
01-10-2006, 06:17 PM
The rates at two rinks where I work are set by the director, and are based on the per lesson price of the group lessons so as not to undercut group enrollment. At both rinks, we charge more for a semi-private lesson than for a private one. I've PM'ed you with the specifics.

dbny
01-10-2006, 06:44 PM
I got a call this afternoon from a woman who was referred to me by an adult student of mine. She wanted a few lessons for her daughter, who, she said, it totally uncoordinated. Her goal is just for her daughter to be able to enjoy skating. We were actually able to schedule the lesson for later in the day.

The girl is 9 years old and did not seem at all interested in skating, much less in having a lesson. She didn't pay much attention as I showed her how to put her hands on "the table", and how to march. When we got onto the ice, she started windmilling both her arms and legs, really tearing up the ice, but still managing to stay upright. I got her to slow down, and we made our way to the lesson area at the back of the rink. I had brought my plush ball in case she needed encouragement in letting go of the wall. What I found in this child, was perfect balance (I'm turning green), coupled with very little control of her upper body. She was constantly distracted, almost never looking at me unless I specifically asked her to, and then only for a moment. I tried every trick in my book to get her to show some interest in skating and/or improving.

The two things that finally worked, were playing ball and racing me, but what she really wanted to do with the ball was play soccer 8O. Although she could not do "heels together, toes together", when I asked her to skate over the ball when it dropped, she just naturally swizzled. The racing got her going, and she really tried to control her upper body in order to stay ahead of me. By the end of the lesson, she wanted to race me around the rink, so I told her she would have to be able to stop to do that, and she tried stopping enough that I agreed to the race. When we were done, her mother was ecstatic. It seems that this child is so hard on herself that when something is difficult, she quits rather than not be good at it right away! That's why the racing worked with her. She was so enthusiastic about skating that she stayed another 40 minutes after the lesson, going around by herself (mom was on skates too). She's signed up again for next week :) I only wish mom had given me the inside story before the lesson.

Mrs Redboots
01-11-2006, 06:34 AM
BTW, if you don't mind my asking, I usually charge the same for one student as for two in a lesson. (More than two's a different situation, IMO) My logic is that two kids are more likely to stick with the lessons and (hopefully) turn into two separate, higher-level lessons down the road. Anybody else have a different rate or viewpoint?The coaches here charge the same per lesson whether they have one student or a small family. Classes are different - you pay the rink for those, and they pay the coaches - but in private lessons you pay the same for the coach's time no matter how many of you there are. Husband and I each pay the same for our solo lessons as we do for our couples lessons.

dbny
01-14-2006, 12:38 PM
My problem of the two friends having a lesson together and progressing at different rates/having different focus has resolved itself! It turned out that skater H was apprehensive, as it was her first time on the ice this season! I wish someone had told me that. Their next lesson was wonderful and fun for all of us. D had learned to do a one foot forward glide with free foot up to her knee and arms extended overhead in "ballerina" position. Of course H wanted to do it too, and with just a little coaching about getting feet together on two foot glide first, she succeeded! They were soooo cute! Also, although the rates had gone up last year, I didn't raise theirs. This time, the mom who brought them asked me about that, and proposed that we meet midway between the old rate and the new, and I accepted, of course :D.

BelleOnIce
01-14-2006, 06:41 PM
This is my first post in coaches corner!!
I assisted in my first set of group lessons on friday, counting towards my N.I.S.A Level 1 coaching hours!!
It was so much fun I loved being there and helping the skaters!
My first group were 5 and 6 year olds, most know how to stay up right and balanced and there were only a few who had never been on skates or roller blades before. It felt so good by the end of the hour there was one wee girl who at first didnt want to let go of my hand and by the end of the session she was skating forwards herself and even turning on the spot.
The next session was 7 and 8 year olds. Some were complete beginners and then some of the boys were just insane!! They just kept skating as fast as they could and hardly listened to anything I or my mentor coach said!!
To be honest I think the younger group were better at actually listening to what they were being told to do and following it through, where as the older kids just thought they knew best!!
The lessons are arranged through their school so there were several who just didnt want to be there, I wish when I was at school though we had the chance to go skating!!
I cant wait to coach again, just cant believe I wont see these kids for two weeks as Iv got an exam this friday morning!

MichTheSkater
01-15-2006, 11:39 AM
Just curious, what is a dip and a two-footed shoot-the-duck?

I'm not sure if this will help but may be you can give it a try for stiff knees, tell the kids to put their knees together and keep their hands on their knees while skating forward.
(I also do it for backward skating because I find this very helpful to keep their upper body squared.)


Spend the whole week at the rink and today is the worst of all. :evil:

A two footed shoot the duck is when you have both of yyour feet on the ice and then you bend your knees untill your butt touches your ankles its kinda hard at first because you might fall back wards but just lean forwards.




I am a junior coach and this little girl came up to me and said " The skate sharpining guy forgot to sharpen off my toe pick so im going to be falling alot today. My mom said she will get him to shave it off tomorrow"

After the lession i wen over to the girls mom and had to explain to her
that you dont shave off the toe pick. since im a junior coach the mom didnt belive me. she ended up being mad at me. :roll: i was just trying to help :giveup: haha:P

Isk8NYC
01-16-2006, 09:04 AM
Here's a great line that I read in yesterday's paper:

"As a special education teacher, I have a request for parents of special education students. When you enroll your child at a new school, please inform the school that your child is a special education student. ... If you and your child are adamant that he or she not be givent he extra services, inform the school that you don't want these services." (I've paraphrased slightly.)

I was thinking about this in terms of skating. I had an adorable new student start lessons on Saturday. After having her ignore my every direction and remark, the mother finally told me that the girl doesn't speak English! The student is 3-1/2 years old and she was more interested in chasing after her cousins and running. Back-breaking work, keeping her from falling down and hurting herself. (No helmet, of course, and those slippery nylon mittens.) However, she did have fun and learned how to fall and get back up safely. When she started to make ice angels, I called it a day.

BelleOnIce
01-16-2006, 09:09 AM
Ah yes ice angels, one of the groups I had on friday- 7-8 year olds, could speak english but just wouldnt listen and one actually lay down and started making ice angels while I was talking to her! I was not happy! But I guess I have more of that and worse to come!!

Isk8NYC
01-16-2006, 09:12 AM
Welcome to the Coaches' Corner, BelleOnIce! Sounds like you had fun teaching them, so I'm sure the kids had fun learning.


We're celebrating National Skating Month (January) so the rink had a special session for the skating school students to bring friends. The DJ was fun - some of these kids are tremendous, doing "Cotton Eye Joe" and the "Electric Slide" on ice. One little munchkin came up to me and said: "You're here to teach me? I want to go fast!" (Yes, she was a bit rude.) But, all she wanted was for someone to drag her along while she stood still. I turned the tables and made her PUSH me (I skated backwards) so she kept her balance and still went fast. The main goal is to get new students into the school, so hopefully some of the kids will sign up soon.

I have such a great group of students this year. I just added Saturday skating to my schedule, so now I'm working seven days a week. Unfortunately, only three are for skating :cry: . Well, I can dream of the future.

BelleOnIce
01-16-2006, 09:17 AM
Yeah although there were some horrors in the group there are always ones who make it worth while! One little girl at the beginning didnt want to move herself so I took her across the ice while the others skated in front. When I suggested she try a bit herself she almost started crying, but it was the type you know it was genuine she had a fear not that she just didnt want to do it. So I let her carry on just skating with me while we taught the others, she helped me decide who should go what order in line etc and then gradually she wanted to try some of the things herself. I guess she just needed that extra bit of support and probably felt ashamed a bit since others in her group were younger and had no fear. But what made me really happy was at the end, once all the kids were talking their skates off and I was still standing on ice at the barrier she came up to me and thanked me for her lesson and for helping her.
Really made me excited about what I was doing and how much I was helping!

AshBugg44
01-17-2006, 04:32 PM
It is indeed frustrating when a parent doesn't tell you that their child has special needs. We've had that happen at our rink.

garyc254
01-18-2006, 11:29 AM
She didn't pay much attention as I showed her how to put her hands on "the table"

Had a five year old boy in a group lesson that when I told them to keep their hands on the table said "We already did that. Let's do something new."

:roll: :lol:

dbny
01-18-2006, 11:47 AM
Had a five year old boy in a group lesson that when I told them to keep their hands on the table said "We already did that. Let's do something new."

:roll: :lol:

Cute, but also :frus:. Yesterday, I had one in a private lesson who wanted to play football and did amazingly well with the "ball" tucked under one arm. She is a real challenge, as she is now having fun and is going to have to work hard to improve. Where is her incentive to do that? Ideas, please.

jazzpants
01-18-2006, 07:30 PM
Cute, but also :frus:. Yesterday, I had one in a private lesson who wanted to play football and did amazingly well with the "ball" tucked under one arm. She is a real challenge, as she is now having fun and is going to have to work hard to improve. Where is her incentive to do that? Ideas, please.Make the kid chase after the ball and come back with the ball, maybe??? :P

dbny
01-18-2006, 07:57 PM
Make the kid chase after the ball and come back with the ball, maybe??? :P

One thing I have her doing is a rocking horse over the ball before picking it up. Maybe I'll just get tougher with that, ask for a higher standard on it, or maybe several in a row.

She's a speed demon and loves to do that kind of thing. The problem is that she is almost totally out of control. What I need to get her to do is slow down and apply some discipline to what she is doing. For example, she will tear down the ice at a crazy pace, pushing straight back with toe picks and not falling only because she keeps going. As soon as she stops the "windmilling", she falls, but is so loosey goosey that she just slides down onto the ice most times and thinks it's great fun. Maybe I'll find something she can balance on her hands when they are still. It can't be too hard though, because she is easily discouraged.

Isk8NYC
01-19-2006, 07:58 AM
I had my beginners building snowmen last week. The parents thought I was teaching them to mime. LOL I had them skate to the imaginary snow pile, bend down, scoop up a huge snow ball, skate while carrying it in front of them, then place it on the snowman. Then we went "shopping" with carts for a carrot, buttons, hat and scarf. The scarf was fun: we all held hands and skated along with it like a team. Then we wrapped it around the snowman.

If they're bored with the table analogy, try scooter handlebars, shopping carts, or strollers. I'll bet his arms were flapping like mad, Gary. I've also told them they were waiters/waitresses with trays to carry. Then, I put a pretend glass on the tray! (I also use this when I teach swimming and have them hold up kickboards so they have to use their legs to kick on backstroke.)

garyc254
01-19-2006, 09:02 AM
dbny, if you can draw some lines on the ice, make a short football field across one end of the ice. Tell her she's got to "run" the ball to the first line and put her toes together to stop, then to the next line and dip, then repeat all the way across for a touchdown.

You might also try passing practice. Have her skate to a line, stop, then throw a pass to you.

`

dbny
01-19-2006, 10:06 AM
dbny, if you can draw some lines on the ice, make a short football field across one end of the ice. Tell her she's got to "run" the ball to the first line and put her toes together to stop, then to the next line and dip, then repeat all the way across for a touchdown.

You might also try passing practice. Have her skate to a line, stop, then throw a pass to you.

`

We played ball in the first lesson, and it's great for getting the arms in front and for turning. She's great at running with the ball tucked under one arm, but is wildly out of control when doing it. What she needs to do now is get control. I've decided to have her do two foot glides with hands on table, and I think the football field idea is great for that, as the lines can measure her progress. Only thing is, that I have very little idea what a football field looks like! Guess it's a case for Google.

garyc254
01-19-2006, 11:09 AM
FOOTBALL FIELD LAYOUT (http://agebb.missouri.edu/stat/football/dimfootball.htm)

`

dbny
01-19-2006, 11:17 AM
FOOTBALL FIELD LAYOUT (http://agebb.missouri.edu/stat/football/dimfootball.htm)



Thank you! :D

Isk8NYC
01-19-2006, 12:33 PM
Gary - you're so accomodating. (I would have just used the hockey lines.)

Thank you!

dbny
01-19-2006, 12:38 PM
Gary - you're so accomodating. (I would have just used the hockey lines.)

Thank you!

This particular rink does not have any hockey markings on the ice. I really miss the circles and lines!

Isk8NYC
02-06-2006, 02:44 AM
I helped out with the "beginner hockey" group yesterday. It's just a bunch of boys who can barely glide that wear equipment. The hockey helmets, pads and pants make them think they're hockey players. They're all under 6 years old and adorable.

I saw the oddest fall during this class. They were all standing with their backs to the wall. Some were lazier than others and actually leaned on the wall. The instructor wanted to have them skate across the ice, so he called to them to come away and "walk like ducks." One little boy let his feet go forward, but kept leaning on the wall with his back. Needless to say, he flopped backwards onto the ice and his back and helmet took the brunt of the fall. Knocked the wind out of him. He kept saying the top of his head hurt - the helmet must have shifted upon impact. Very surreal to watch since it happened so slowly. He was okay after getting a drink of water.

My groups are going okay. Apparently, the majority of my skaters signed up for the Show. In two weeks, we start Show Group rehearsals. Hope we have the music early, so I can choreograph beforehand. I'm always torn between working on new skills and working on the skating program. Hopefully, I can keep both going this season.

frvanilla
02-15-2006, 10:03 PM
I am totally beaten up by the BO, BI mohawks...
Can't get the kids to "open up their hips" and step while keeping the edge. :frus:
Any tips for teaching BO, BI, and FI mohawks?


Meanwhile, my kids went crazy after my Mr. Sketch markers. All they wanted to do is just to *stiff* them!

mantysk8er
02-18-2006, 10:29 PM
Our Learn To Skate season is over, and we have started ice show rehearsals also. Our show is "There's no place like home" (I bet you can never guess what the theme is!) and I have been assigned the flying monkeys. A group of 8 boys between the ages of about 6-10. Oh. my. gosh. They are all over the ice, just doing their own thing! We only have five half hour practices to get ready for the show. I COULD NOT keep the focused, no matter what. It was insane. I consider myself to be a very patient person, and I was almost in tears! Wish me luck, it's going to be a long month!

Other than that, I have a few girls doing spring competitions, but that is going well.

I'm kind of looking forward to the season winding down.

Isk8NYC
02-19-2006, 10:52 PM
I have been assigned the flying monkeys. A group of 8 boys between the ages of about 6-10. Oh. my. gosh. They are all over the ice, just doing their own thing! We only have five half hour practices to get ready for the show. I COULD NOT keep the focused, no matter what. It was insane. I consider myself to be a very patient person, and I was almost in tears! Wish me luck, it's going to be a long month!

I had a group a few years ago that I referred to as the Wild Childs - they were terrible at each and every practice. When they showed up - at least one was out every week. :frus: Somehow they pulled it together for the show. They always do, don't they?

My trademark is a pinwheel of some sort, depending on their skill levels. I've got a Basic 2-3 group and a Basic 5-6 group, so it'll be fun this year. I love it when one falls off - it reminds me of the old Ice Capades shows with the little one racing to catch on. LOL! :lol:

Still, you have my sympathy. Flying monkeys - how appropriate.

Isk8NYC
02-20-2006, 02:25 PM
Just had the most wonderful lesson with a 15-year old today. She's returning to skating after a 3-4 year absence. I'd say she's a Basic 3 or 4 skater, but the child has control and really tries everything I asked her to do.

I asked her "Is there something in particular you want to work on?" and she requested spins. By the end of our lesson, she was doing some pique spins! I was so excited!

It's kids like this that make your day, right?

garyc254
02-21-2006, 11:29 AM
It's kids like this that make your day, right?

You've got that right!!

We're on the 2nd to last week of our learn-to-skate session and that meant evaluations for next session.

The Sam 2 class isn't exceptional. We moved all but one (she's only 3) up to Sam 3, but they just barely made it.

However, I put the Sam 1 group through their paces just to see how well they could do (I go into drill instructor mode on evaluation night). WOW!!! Fall down, get up, hop, skate forward, glide, dip, touch your toes, stop, and even rudamentary swizzles. We were stunned by how good they all did. :o

8-)

Piper
02-23-2006, 12:03 AM
I'm new here, but after reading some of your posts, I thought I'd tell you a bit about myself...

I coach 3 or 4 days a week, depending on how much they need me and who wants lessons when. I coach a synchronized skating team, a group of private students, and for some extra cash on the weekends, learn to skate/basic skills.
I love coaching synchro. It's my passion and is what my life is all about. I skated on a high level team for years, but decided to take this year off to save some money and persue coaching a bit more. My private students are pretty cute. I'm known thorughout my rink as the powerful-synchro-skater... So that's basically what I work on with them. They're all a bit lacking in power and presentation, which is a major factor in synchronized skating. I do a lot of footwork with them too, which is my favorite, and other jumps and spins too. And LTS/BS, well, I do all the usual. We have about 100 kids in our LTS program, so I'm always on my toes! Sometimes my little sister comes to help out too... She's 14, competes at Juvenile Free, and has Junior MIF but is so small for her age, it doesn't always work out that well.

Well, I look forward to meeting you all!

Also, if you're interested in seeing some synchro, you should check out my website here: SynchroVideos (http://synchrovideos.blogspot.com/2006_01_01_synchrovideos_archive.html)

Bothcoasts
02-24-2006, 07:54 PM
Just had the most wonderful lesson with a 15-year old today. She's returning to skating after a 3-4 year absence. I'd say she's a Basic 3 or 4 skater, but the child has control and really tries everything I asked her to do.

I asked her "Is there something in particular you want to work on?" and she requested spins. By the end of our lesson, she was doing some pique spins! I was so excited!

It's kids like this that make your day, right?

Congrats, Isk8NYC! Teens can be lots of fun to work with, particularly if they have some skating experience. I love working with teen skaters!

Isk8NYC
02-26-2006, 07:25 PM
I had a little four-year old last week take a private lesson with me on the public session. It was noisy and crowded, and I really couldn't use any of my usual toys. She was ready to get off after 20 minutes, tired and bored.

I taught her this week on the group lesson session and used the toys - what a difference. She laughed out loud and smiled. When the session ended, she begged to stay for the public session and skate around with me some more.

Had some great privates this week with newbies. I hope they stick around for a while - I really enjoyed teaching them.

My teenage student had another lesson this weekend, which went incredibly well. I'm going to start working on edges and such with her.

The only concern is that she's falling to the inside on her right foot. (Riedell 220's) The blades are riveted in the front, but screwed on in the heel. How can that be adjusted or offset?

mantysk8er
03-01-2006, 10:51 PM
My "flying monkeys" that I spoke about a few posts ago are coming along. They aren't any better behaved, but they are actually learning their routine, and doing pretty well...when they actually focus and do what they are supposed to be. They'll be okay. The other group I'm working with are girls, the "Cyclones" (our ice show theme is Wizard of Oz). They are doing really well, and are much easier to work with than the boys. I'm also choreographing our Synchro groups number for the ice show. It's been fun!

Skate@Delaware
03-02-2006, 11:56 AM
My "flying monkeys" that I spoke about a few posts ago are coming along. They aren't any better behaved, but they are actually learning their routine, and doing pretty well...when they actually focus and do what they are supposed to be. They'll be okay. The other group I'm working with are girls, the "Cyclones" (our ice show theme is Wizard of Oz). They are doing really well, and are much easier to work with than the boys. I'm also choreographing our Synchro groups number for the ice show. It's been fun!
We are doing the same show, but we don't have that many boys (maybe 3-4). Wow! Isn't it fun!!!

dbny
03-02-2006, 02:43 PM
I have a blue canvas bag full of small stuffed animals that I use in teaching the tots. At the outdoor rink, the lesson area is at the back, and there is a pipe on the other side of the boards that I hang the bag on while I am working. I keep the bag in the skating school office at that rink. Well, one day last week, when I came in the morning to teach adults, the blue bag was missing from the office. I was sure I had brought it in the previous afternoon, but it was gone nevertheless. I ran to the lost and found...not there. Into the rink manager's office - where an employee knew right away what I was looking for, as he had spotted it on the pipe from his Zamboni seat the previous afternoon, and brought it in! Getting ready to go out and teach, and in comes one of the college aged coaches. I told her "can you believe I left the animals out yesterday?", and she immediately began profusely apologizing! She had borrowed the animals, and forgotten to bring them in. She did have my permission to borrow, but I figured right away that I had left them out in a senior moment. I so relieved that I wasn't the one who forgot them! I told her they were crying when I picked them up in the office, and we both had a laugh.

Isk8NYC
03-03-2006, 07:12 AM
Glad you didn't lose the whole bag! That's a real temptation for any age to keep.

I use toys when teaching the tots and I also keep them in a canvas bag. I felt really uncomfortable leaving the student to get the bag or the toys. I can't leave the bag on the ice because someone will trip over it sooner or later.

I've found that if you take one of the tall, ratty cones, the ripped-up top is perfect to hang the bag. Then, I trundle the cone around with me. The toys are right at hand and the cone keeps the skaters safe.

cecealias
03-04-2006, 03:19 PM
Just out of curiousity, what level is expected before you can start teaching in skating school for basic skills at your rink?

I'd like to teach someday, but not now. Right now I'm working on my Novice moves, and hopefully through senior someday.

beachbabe
03-04-2006, 05:39 PM
Just out of curiousity, what level is expected before you can start teaching in skating school for basic skills at your rink?

I'd like to teach someday, but not now. Right now I'm working on my Novice moves, and hopefully through senior someday.


haha, not very high. When i was in Basic skills, my coach had never even gone above freestyle 1 herself...no i'm not joking. Even now that i see her like 3 years later, I'm working on doubles and she can't even do a waltz jump...well, barely.

I wanna coach someday, trust me they need all the coaches they can egt for basic LTS and they'll tae anybody who can do all the basic skills themselves. There is more competition for privates, b/c ppl see the flyer and if you don't have a top of small print under your name about all your achievements, they look down to the next coach. Prents want to make sure their 3yr olds are taught by olympic champions lol

dbny
03-04-2006, 10:32 PM
haha, not very high. When i was in Basic skills, my coach had never even gone above freestyle 1 herself...no i'm not joking. Even now that i see her like 3 years later, I'm working on doubles and she can't even do a waltz jump...well, barely.

You could land triples and still might not be as good a teacher as your former coach. Teaching and skating are two completely different skills.

Of course, one needs reasonable basic skills and must have a technical understanding also, in order to teach. But aside from that, it's the teaching skills that really count. It can be hard to get your foot in the door if you don't have advanced skating skills. I did it by volunteering. In one case, I had volunteered to do desk work in exchange for ice time and the skating director saw that the kids liked me and started me off teaching. In another case, there was an opening in the tots class I had volunteered with, and I was asked if I wanted it. Since, I've been asked to teach other classes, including an adults.


There is more competition for privates, b/c ppl see the flyer and if you don't have a top of small print under your name about all your achievements, they look down to the next coach. Prents want to make sure their 3yr olds are taught by olympic champions lol

That isn't always true. There are rinks and schools where such things are much more informal and there are actually a lot of sane parents out there who know that the best teacher is one who can keep their child interested and progressing. I've seen champion skaters turn kids off very quickly by expecting way too much too soon. IMO the important thing is to know what you are good at and focus on that. Word gets around. I have a reputation for being good with the little kids, and with beginner adults. There are enough of them wanting private lessons to keep me busy, and I enjoy it all.

dbny
03-04-2006, 10:36 PM
I've found that if you take one of the tall, ratty cones, the ripped-up top is perfect to hang the bag. Then, I trundle the cone around with me. The toys are right at hand and the cone keeps the skaters safe.

At the outdoor rink, the lessons, both class and private, all take place in the coned off rear end of the rink. There are two openings in the barrier there with boards placed across. The supports for the boards project upwards and make a convenient place to hang the animals' sleeping bag. It's not very visible to skaters, but easy for me to grab. The only problem is that since it's out of sight, it can be forgotten. I wouldn't be able to use a cone at this rink, since it is just too crowded on all the public sessions except for early morning, but I'll remember the tip for other places.

Mrs Redboots
03-05-2006, 05:51 AM
Just out of curiousity, what level is expected before you can start teaching in skating school for basic skills at your rink?

I'd like to teach someday, but not now. Right now I'm working on my Novice moves, and hopefully through senior someday.It depends what country you're in; here in the UK you can start training at a fairly low level, but the lower-level a skater you are, the longer training you must have before you can even become a "Programme Assistant" and teach learn-to-skate classes under supervision. I believe the minimum requirement is 50 hours on-ice training, plus the various off-ice modules required, and if you are not at a certain level of skating, it rises to 100 hours or more. That's just to become an assistant coach - we have five levels of coach training (at the moment - like all our things, I believe this is due to change again!), and you may not take private pupils or coach unsupervised until you have your Level 2 qualification. Which, I think, usually requires another year or more training after you get your Level 1 (Assistant Coach). And so it goes... but things are different in different countries.

cecealias
03-05-2006, 01:27 PM
Right on- dbny. I think of my own situation and coaches and I know exactly how true that is. Thanks for the feedback :)

You could land triples and still might not be as good a teacher as your former coach. Teaching and skating are two completely different skills.

dbny
03-05-2006, 02:26 PM
It depends what country you're in

Good point! Thanks for the reminder.

Well, I just had a coach's worst nightmare happen this morning. With a class of only three kids, one of them twisted her ankle and fell. She had to be taken off the ice on a stretcher. I accompanied her, of course. I didn't even see it happen. She had been in class with me earlier and had gone from paralyzed with fear to doing F swizzles, falling on purpose and getting up, and having a lot of fun. Her father had seen it all and was very happy. Thank goodness he met me after the earlier class! Her second class was a make up for a snow day. I think she got a little giddy and a little careless. She may even have caught her blade on something, as there was wind blown debris on the ice, but she said she didn't. She's only nine years old, and had to go to the hospital in an ambulance with her ankle iced and wrapped. There was considerable swelling, so I'm sure there is some damage, but won't know what till later. I exchanged numbers with her father. He seemed very calm and very nice, but you never know. Boy do I ever not want to get sued; that would be the nightmare in the nightmare. Guess this is what coaching insurance is for.

dbny
03-05-2006, 04:31 PM
I just got a phone call from the sweetest little girl. This doll called me to tell me that she is in a splint, they gave her cartoons (I think she means the splint has cartoons on it), and that they don't know yet if anything is broken. She has crutches, which she says are hard to walk with. I got to speak with her mother, who was just lovely. The mom told me that the dad had said how well their daughter was doing before the accident. I think I can stop worrying about being sued. I got her address so I can send a card, and the mom says the daughter wants to skate again next year, so I will enclose instructions on where and how to buy skates. I've invited them to the skating show next Sunday, and I really do hope they come.

Mrs Redboots
03-06-2006, 02:39 AM
I just got a phone call from the sweetest little girl. This doll called me to tell me that she is in a splint, they gave her cartoons (I think she means the splint has cartoons on it), and that they don't know yet if anything is broken. She has crutches, which she says are hard to walk with. I got to speak with her mother, who was just lovely. The mom told me that the dad had said how well their daughter was doing before the accident. I think I can stop worrying about being sued. I got her address so I can send a card, and the mom says the daughter wants to skate again next year, so I will enclose instructions on where and how to buy skates. I've invited them to the skating show next Sunday, and I really do hope they come.I hope she does, too. I also hope - dare I say it - that it is a fracture, as that will heal quicker than ligament damage. Poor little girl - I do hope it doesn't put her off! Am I right in thinking that in the USA, the "Long John Silver" type of crutches are the default, rather than the elbow crutches we have here? They must be really hard to learn to walk on!

At least sensible parents still know that accidents happen! But coaches here have to carry the most enormous amounts of insurance (one reason they are all qualified - the rinks also carry enormous amount of liability insurance, and won't employ non-professional coaches as it would make matters even worse!), just in case!

dbny
03-06-2006, 10:27 AM
Alas, you are right about the crutches. Coaching insurance is available here to anyone registered with the USFS as a coach. Amazingly, one can be registered as a coach with a USFS basic skills program for only $5. Of course, the insurance costs considerably more.

Isk8NYC
03-07-2006, 07:24 AM
Kicking and Screaming:
What do you do when you have a student who throws a tantrum?

(Topic courtesy of a post in Patsy's Parlor.)

garyc254
03-07-2006, 08:18 AM
Kicking and Screaming:
What do you do when you have a student who throws a tantrum?



Depends on the age of the student.

Try to handle it like you would your own kids. I've used a time out on the ice. Actually had the boy sitting on the ice in the middle of the class by himself while everyone skated around him. He was 5. I'll bet his bottom was cold. :lol:

He eventually got with the program and became a decent skater.

8-)

CanAmSk8ter
03-08-2006, 10:56 AM
Kicking and Screaming:
What do you do when you have a student who throws a tantrum?

(Topic courtesy of a post in Patsy's Parlor.)

My first instinct is "ignore", but I don't suppose having a child lying kicking and scream on the ice is safe, for him or the kids who might trip over him ;)

If the parents were in the vicinity, I'd bring the child to them and simply say, "I need you to keep him until he calms down." I'd tell the child to come join us when he's ready to skate, and then go back to the class. If the parents weren't nearby, I'd either take him or have my helper take him off the ice and say we'll get back on when he's ready to listen and follow directions.

Luckily, we're rarely in charge of a tot class by ourselves at my rink; I don't know what I'd do in that situation if I didn't have a helper to take either the child or the rest of the class. Maybe I'd join in the tantrum myself ;)

I should mention, I also have a LTS Director who wholeheartedly supports us coaches when it comes to discipline issues; none of us are afraid to remove or "time-out" a child who's being a distraction to the point of being dangerous.

Chico
03-08-2006, 10:28 PM
I used to teach young kids with emotional problems. Issues were the norm to some extent. This is what I did: Ignore as long as possible and safe. Move the child to a safe spot and ignore. If needed, remove the child from the ice and leave with their parent. " " can rejoin the group when they settle down and I come and get them. IF " " can't settle down and follow the rules they will need to go home. Sounds tough, but issues like you describe need to be nipped in the bud. Otherwise, this child will be testing you FOREVER. Your the boss, prove that you mean business in a kind and firm manner. This is hard, good luck.

Isk8NYC
03-09-2006, 07:04 AM
I pretty much do what you've suggested: ignore, move to safety, move 'em off with a return option for good behavior.

You're right Chica: some kids really do have emotional problems that we aren't aware of and that don't show. Someone once told me that ADHD kids don't like to be touched and I've found that that's true in skating. I have had a few kids whose mothers confided that they were ADHD. Those same kids are the ones that I struggle to teach because they pull their hands away when you try to guide them into arm positions and beginning spins. I've found having them put their hands on top of mine seems to work well as an alternative.

It's really important to know how to deal with these things since those kids can really, really benefit from the exercise, discipline and social aspects of skating.

New Question, well part II of the last question:

What do you do when the PARENTS don't want their children corrected for poor behavior?

dbny
03-12-2006, 03:49 PM
My nine year old student who had to be taken off the ice on a stretcher got a diagnosis yesterday of a broken growth plate at the ankle end of either the tibia or fibula (I don't know which). The good news is that the fracture was so small that they had to have an expert read the x-ray, which is why it took a week for the diagnosis. The parents were told there is nothing to worry about re future growth. The child is in a cast for a month, and then should be as good as new.

Bothcoasts
03-13-2006, 03:45 PM
What do you do when the PARENTS don't want their children corrected for poor behavior?



Good question. I'd love to know others' responses.

I can't count the number of times I've gently corrected a child for poor behavior--or mentioned it to the parents--only to be told that I erred by correcting the child. You can almost always immediately tell that the child's negative behavior stems directly from the attitudes of the parents at hand!

garyc254
03-13-2006, 03:54 PM
What do you do when the PARENTS don't want their children corrected for poor behavior?


I take it we're talking about "while on the ice". If it's in a class I'm teaching, I'm in charge of the class. My behavior rules apply. I try to be fair and fun with the kids, but won't put up with any nonsense. If the parents don't want their child corrected during my class, then they'd better find another class.

`

Chico
03-13-2006, 09:58 PM
Here's my answer. I would talk to the skating director. I would get their support to remove a child from my group lesson if needed. Make sure the director understands your reasons. If I couldn't keep my "kids' safe, the child in question included they would be asked to leave. I would tell the parent and be very be very firm that I would not put kids in jeopardy because their child would not follow rink/class rules. Be kind and firm. If issues continue, send them on to the director after class. Make sure the director agrees with this! I was a classroom teacher not a coach but I have been there. No fun! Good luck.

Chico

Isk8NYC
03-14-2006, 07:25 AM
I was a classroom teacher not a coach but I have been there. No fun!

That's why I think classroom teachers make good group lesson instructors - they know how to manage classes of kids. It's an art in itself. That's why so many beginning instructors struggle with group lessons - they don't know how to manage a class. (I say with my "Wild Child" group coming up on Thursday - I love them, but they tend to wander off and there are a lot of them!)

I believe that's why one particular student was moved out of my class about three years ago, but I had no confrontation with the parent. (The Director said it was because the Mom thought the kid was too good for that level, but I saw her struggle miserably in the other class.) This girl pushed three kids during the first 30-minute class. When I called her on it with a "Everybody keeps their hands and feet to themselves," and a time-out in the penalty box, the kid was in a different group the following week.

I have the Director's support, so I agree with Gary - don't like how I discipline, pull your kid out. Earlier this year, the Director told me that she gave a parent a refund for groups because there was no way she could make this woman happy. She'd prefer her to leave the school than be in the office every week complaining. "My daughter doesn't like the instructor, They're not working on what she worked on last session, yadayadayada."

I can usually spot those parents and I "kill 'em with kindness" before and after each class. I tell the parents, right in front of the kid, what the rules of class are (no PUSHING!) and afterwards I report back "Stacey pushed Peter again, so she got a time out. We'll try again next week."

I can't count the number of times I've gently corrected a child for poor behavior--or mentioned it to the parents--only to be told that I erred by correcting the child. You can almost always immediately tell that the child's negative behavior stems directly from the attitudes of the parents at hand!

ITA. I would personally be stunned if a parent challenged me about correcting their child on-ice. It's never happened, so I don't know how I'd respond. That's why I posted the question, hoping to be prepared in the future.

Chico
03-14-2006, 10:32 PM
Here's a tool that I used in the classroom. Make sure you compliment ANY positive improvement in behavior you spot. Sometimes you almost need to find one. And, make sure you tell the parent after class. With difficult children you almost need to hand feed them the desired changes and behavior you want. Giving a sticker or stamp at the end of the class with at least one kudo for each child is also helpful. Kids need something they can see as well as hear. Make sure all the kids hear something good, they will notice that your giving them to the "difficult" child. Kids won't understand this and it can create another whole bag of worms.

Chico

Bothcoasts
03-15-2006, 12:14 AM
ITA. I would personally be stunned if a parent challenged me about correcting their child on-ice. It's never happened, so I don't know how I'd respond. That's why I posted the question, hoping to be prepared in the future.

If not challenging us, they do like to act unconcerned.

One of my co-workers yesterday told me that one of her 6-year-old pre-alpha students made a death threat to another student in the class a few weeks ago. In class, the coach told the students that such comments were not allowed, and then also approached the parent after class. When hearing about her child's threat, the parent simply said "Oh, she says that all of the time..." Yikes!

Isk8NYC
03-15-2006, 10:03 AM
When I was Parents' Guild Prez, I had a mother talk to me about the teacher's "overreaction" when her daughter said something in class. The mother said that the kid used a phrase that she herself uses frequently. The phrase was "Oh, I'm gonna kill myself." Gee, I wonder why the teacher was concerned? (I told her to use the "curse jar" approach to break BOTH of them of the habit.)

I had the nicest lesson last night. I went to the rink early, so that I'd be ready for a new private student. Turned out that I was just in time for her 30 minutes' free time between group lessons! (The Dad had forgotten about the second group.) Whew! The kid is terrific, a bit stiff-armed, but I had a great time teaching her. Apparently, she's not too thrilled with spins, but I had her work on a few anyway. This rink's season ends next month, but I'm looking forward to working with this girl for at least a few weeks.

When I asked her to show me a toe loop, she could only do it from a waltz jump landing. I had to "remind" her about the RFI entrance, and then she was okay. When I worked on a ballet jump with her, she did it from a left outside three-turn, and she was very sure that was the right way to do it. I always do/teach it from a RFI three-turn, like a toe loop.

Is the entrance optional for a ballet jump?

Isk8NYC
04-12-2006, 10:12 AM
I've been teaching the little "hates to spin" girl for a few weeks and yep, she still hates to spin. (I still love teaching the little jumping bean.) She whimpers when I have tell we're going to practice spins. After the second spin, she starts acting dizzy, to try and get me to move onto something else. I have to cajole her to do four or five spins during the 30-m lesson.

She doesn't realize it, but she's very close to hooking the three-turn and getting this down. Another few lessons and she'll have it solid. If I can coax her into really working on them seriously, she'd master the spins.

Any tips on making spin practice more fun?

slusher
04-12-2006, 05:19 PM
Draw a circle on the ice and tell her that she has to make a spin fit within it. Otherwise the ice alligators will eat her if she gets outside the circle.

Isk8NYC
07-15-2006, 11:01 AM
Ice alligators. Hmmmm.

I was asked to teach a girl yesterday. The father told me that she took a few lessons at another nearby rink during the season. Always wary of poaching, I asked who her coach had been and he told me that it was a woman who I like and respect a great deal. I actually skated with her when we were younger. I guess he wanted to complement me because he said she wasn't as high-level a skater as I am and she couldn't demonstrate much of what she was trying to teach the students.

I had no idea of what to say to that, so I faked it. I know she has beautiful dance and MITF skills, so I said she was an ice dancer. I don't really know that for sure, and she does do jumps and spins, but I didn't want to be accused of bad-mouthing her, especially since I like her.

Did I do the right thing?

twokidsskatemom
07-15-2006, 01:06 PM
Not that Im a coach but...
Have you explained to the dad how things work? That when you take from one coach, and wish to take from another there are rules to follow. I think when you start out, people have no clue how this is SO different than other activities.
I believe being honest is the best way to go.
Imo

mdvask8r
07-15-2006, 03:27 PM
. . . When I worked on a ballet jump with her, she did it from a left outside three-turn, and she was very sure that was the right way to do it. I always do/teach it from a RFI three-turn, like a toe loop.

Is the entrance optional for a ballet jump?
Seems to me that the LFO3 entrance would make it a split jump or a half-flip, unless you step down on the R after the 3, then pick with the L. --- or was she doing the LFO3 then picking R and turning CW ??

Isk8NYC
07-15-2006, 04:02 PM
Not that Im a coach but...
Have you explained to the dad how things work? That when you take from one coach, and wish to take from another there are rules to follow. I think when you start out, people have no clue how this is SO different than other activities.
I believe being honest is the best way to go.
ImoSorry, I forgot to write that the other rink is seasonal (closed now until Oct) and the girl was in group lessons, so there's no poaching issue. It was the backhanded insult towards the other instructor that I needed validation about, not the changing coaches issue. I'm very good about that.:halo:

twokidsskatemom
07-15-2006, 04:05 PM
Sorry, I forgot to write that the other rink is seasonal (closed now until Oct) and the girl was in group lessons, so there's no poaching issue. It was the backhanded insult towards the other instructor that I needed validation about, not the changing coaches issue. I'm very good about that.:halo:
Oh I get it:) I think you handled it fine!!!!!
again, from a moms view, not a coaches view