View Full Version : Will Dance Blades Help With Threes?
My friend/skating director told me that she thinks I should switch to dance blades as they make three turns much easier. I'm afraid of falling off the back of the skate with that much shorter tail on the blade. OTOH, the length of the blade will more closely approximate roller skates, which is what I used to be very proficient on. Opinions, please.
icedancer2
10-25-2005, 07:17 PM
My friend/skating director told me that she thinks I should switch to dance blades as they make three turns much easier. I'm afraid of falling off the back of the skate with that much shorter tail on the blade. OTOH, the length of the blade will more closely approximate roller skates, which is what I used to be very proficient on. Opinions, please.
I can't imagine why they would help. The tails are shorter so you won't step on them (and if your weight is right over the blade where it should be you shouldn't fall backwards), and picks are smaller because you don't need them for dance. They are also thinner, which some say makes changes of edges easier.
Hmm... I would like her know her thought-process there. I can see the roller-skate analogy, though...
phoenix
10-25-2005, 08:01 PM
Assuming you do more with your time than just 3-turns--do you need dance blades for you overall skating? It's harder to spin in them. I never had any trouble w/ single jumps (no axel), but consider what jumping you're doing/plan to be doing.
If you're focusing on moves & dance, I'd say why not if you want to get new blades. If it's only for the sake of the 3-turns it wouldn't make much sense.
icedancer2
10-25-2005, 08:08 PM
Assuming you do more with your time than just 3-turns--do you need dance blades for you overall skating? It's harder to spin in them. I never had any trouble w/ single jumps (no axel), but consider what jumping you're doing/plan to be doing.
If you're focusing on moves & dance, I'd say why not if you want to get new blades. If it's only for the sake of the 3-turns it wouldn't make much sense.
Yeah, so true -- depending on the dance blade spins will be harder for sure and I couldn't do even a bunny hop in my MK dance blades -- I don't know how the elite skaters do anything on their toes with those (but of course, they are elite skaters...). The Ultima dance blade seems like it would be okay for jumps since it still has big toe picks, etc.
But just to get them so you can improve your 3s? I don't know.
I don't jump - hip and knee problems. I do moves and would love to do dance, as that was my roller experience. I believe my friend thinks that less blade at the back means less scraping. She's been wrong before, and tends to think that whatever works for her is great for everyone else too, which is not necessarily so. If I do try dance blades, it will be used ones that I can pick up fairly inexpensively.
pennybeagle
10-25-2005, 10:41 PM
I don't jump - hip and knee problems. I do moves and would love to do dance, as that was my roller experience. I believe my friend thinks that less blade at the back means less scraping. She's been wrong before, and tends to think that whatever works for her is great for everyone else too, which is not necessarily so. If I do try dance blades, it will be used ones that I can pick up fairly inexpensively.
Having less blade in the back does not equal less scraping. Scraping is caused by being on the incorrect part of the blade when you turn. I don't think I've never seen anyone scrape the ice on a 3-turn with the tail of their blade (except maybe for a couple of real freak accidents on the intermediate mohawk back-3 pattern or the novice 3-turn move from hell). The scrape is generally caused by being a centimeter or so off on the turning point of the rocker.
That said, I've heard dance blades have a tighter rocker radius than freestyle blades such as Pattern 99. I believe the MK Dance has a 7' rocker?
Synchro blades are kind of a happy medium between dance and freestyle blades--a bit more toepick, a bit shorter tail, etc.
Taking dance lessons would almost definitely improve your 3-turns, though. I'm convinced that the Willow Waltz and Ten Fox have taught me more about outside 3-turns than I'd ever learned before. (Heh...can't wait for that European... 8O )
Mrs Redboots
10-26-2005, 08:05 AM
I had synchro blades for years, and loved them. I'm now in intermediate dance blades (John Watts), and the Husband is in Coronation Dance, having upgraded from C. Ace. We can both spin far better in these blades, largely because we wore the rocker right off the old ones! Although I can't spin anyway, but the Husband's spin is becoming quite respectable - and, of course, these days a decent spin is as much a necessity for dancers as it is for free or pairs skaters! And we can both still do cherry flips - toe-loops (Husband got confused and thought a toe-loop was a flip, well, duh!) - we've tried!
But I think it is gradually overcoming my fear that has improved my 3-turns (which are now fine as long as I have a partner, still awful if I don't), not the blades!
jenlyon60
10-26-2005, 09:26 AM
MK Dance has a 7' rocker (or did as of a couple years ago). Supposedly the Wilson Super Dance 99 and it's variants have an 8' rocker. The original Ultima Ascend has an 8' rocker... I think the newer Ultima Ascend also has an 8' rocker.
That said, I've heard dance blades have a tighter rocker radius than freestyle blades such as Pattern 99. I believe the MK Dance has a 7' rocker?
skaternum
10-26-2005, 09:42 AM
I think your friend is full of it. Getting dance blades just because you have trouble with 3-turns is crazy! If you expect to be able to build on your skating skills, you'd best spend your energies learning to master a 3-turn. It's so fundamental to learning to control your body. You should NOT need a crutch to do it. Sorry if it sounds really harsh, but you NEED to be able to master a 3-turn on your own, in whatever blade you happen to have.
I think your friend is full of it. Getting dance blades just because you have trouble with 3-turns is crazy! If you expect to be able to build on your skating skills, you'd best spend your energies learning to master a 3-turn. It's so fundamental to learning to control your body. You should NOT need a crutch to do it. Sorry if it sounds really harsh, but you NEED to be able to master a 3-turn on your own, in whatever blade you happen to have.
Yup, you do sound harsh. I really don't need anyone to tell me how best to spend my energies or what I "NEED" to do, as I already know that. I was just looking for input from those who might have had experience with the switch from freestyle to dance blades. I'm well aware that my friend's take on this could well be off, as I stated already. Maybe I didn't state the question clearly enough though. I don't believe I stipulated that I only wanted opinions based on experience.
JulieN
10-26-2005, 01:05 PM
A girl at my rink has parabolic blades (Pattern 99's I think) and claims that they make turns a lot easier and automatic. She is working on Gold dances and skated on a Sr level synchro team. She said twizzles are so much easier and the blades practically turn by themselves, but that it took a little getting use to because the turning happens at the thinnest part of the blade, which is a little further back than she was used to in regular blades.
Not that you were looking for parabolics, but just thought I'd throw that out there. I'd love to try parabolics one of these days.
skaternum
10-26-2005, 02:06 PM
Yup, you do sound harsh. I really don't need anyone to tell me how best to spend my energies or what I "NEED" to do, as I already know that. I was just looking for input from those who might have had experience with the switch from freestyle to dance blades. I'm well aware that my friend's take on this could well be off, as I stated already. Maybe I didn't state the question clearly enough though. I don't believe I stipulated that I only wanted opinions based on experience.Dude, you're the one who said, in reference to switching blades in order to make your three turns easier for you: Opinions, please. That's my opinion on the subject. No need to jump all over me.
Mrs Redboots
10-26-2005, 02:20 PM
Not that you were looking for parabolics, but just thought I'd throw that out there. I'd love to try parabolics one of these days.Oh, so would I! And I'd love to try those ones with a closed-in tail - Freedom dance - I've seen some superb dancing on them, and absolutely covet them! But they're more wellie than I need at my level.
Dude, you're the one who said, in reference to switching blades in order to make your three turns easier for you: That's my opinion on the subject. No need to jump all over me.
Dude, I don't jump. I just said that :lol:
Casey
10-26-2005, 05:50 PM
My friend/skating director told me that she thinks I should switch to dance blades as they make three turns much easier. I'm afraid of falling off the back of the skate with that much shorter tail on the blade. OTOH, the length of the blade will more closely approximate roller skates, which is what I used to be very proficient on. Opinions, please.
If you execute a forward 3-turn properly, there's absolutely no difference, because the back of either blade is not going to be on the ice at all.
If you execute a backward 3-turn, there may be some difference of the pivot point, but I'n not entirely sure. I would imagine it would be trickier to do a back 3-turn on dance blades, but that's just speculation. Maybe it would be easier because you don't have to rock back as far, or maybe it's harder because you can't rock back as far...
The back of the blade is rarely on the ice anyways if you're skating properly. That being said, it's on the ice quite frequently if you're not properly getting up onto the ball of the foot during things like crossovers. I personally have a bad habit of heel-pushing on stroking and crossovers unless I think about pushing off the ball/center of the blade instead.
Rollerblades are another story entirely, because usually all of the wheels are on the ground at the same time.
soogar
10-26-2005, 08:17 PM
My friend/skating director told me that she thinks I should switch to dance blades as they make three turns much easier. I'm afraid of falling off the back of the skate with that much shorter tail on the blade. OTOH, the length of the blade will more closely approximate roller skates, which is what I used to be very proficient on. Opinions, please.
Is your friend getting a cut from the rink's pro shop? The reason why I ask is that there is no reason to get dance blades to do 3 turns. They can be easily done on Coronation Ace blades. My opinion is that you save that money spent on blades for more ice time/lessons to get 3 turns.
I'll also add that parabolics and other sexy blade options (ie K-picks, Pattern 99s) should be saved for when you master all the basics at the very least. All the technique taught is based on the basic blade (Coronation Ace, whatever other equivalent blade by another manufacturer). When you get a fancy blade, it takes longer to learn the proper technique (ie flatter blades don't allow you to spin as well).
cecealias
10-26-2005, 11:10 PM
When i changed about 3 years ago from 9" inch blades to 9 1/4" (at the suggestion of the boot maker) it took over a year for me to adjust to the new turning point for backward 3 turns. And this was after I already had good back power 3 turns. The increase in blade length caused some of my turns which were fine before to start scraping. Forward 3 turns weren't really affected but I noticed a little difference on my salchow 3 turn entry. I'm still tempted to go back to 9" because my body has a lot of muscle memory ingrained from training on that length. I can't imagine what would happen if the blade got shorter.
jazzpants
10-26-2005, 11:33 PM
dbny: What kind of boots and blades do you have now and what are you thinking of switching to? (I think I remembered you saying you had Klingbeil but am not sure, but I definitely didn't ask you what blades you had...)
I had a similar experience as cecealias, except I went DOWN a 1/4". BOY, did I like the change!!! No feeling like I'm going to trip on the back tail of my blade and my LFO3's (which were pretty weak at the time) suddenly got easier for me. (I changed my blade from 9 3/4" blade to a 9-1/2" blade on my second purple boots b/c Harlick told me that my boots would fit better with a smaller size blade.) But it could very well be that for the boot that I'm wearing, the new blade was JUST right for me!!! :mrgreen: My rocker radius didn't change though. (I stayed at 7" radius, which is average.)
Now, I know you're asking for experience of people who have gone from FS to dance blades, so you can take my opinion with a couple of grains of salt, but what I'm trying to say is that it might not be a matter of going from FS blades to dance blades, but maybe going to the right size blade for your boot may be a concern? (Hey, that's just my experience...YMMV)
JulieN
10-26-2005, 11:42 PM
I used to go back and forth between my dance and fs boots/blades. However, both blades were co-planar, so the only difference is that the dance is shorter and the toe-pick is smaller. I didn't feel any of the length difference while swapping back and forth, but I much preferred not having to deal with the scratchy toe-pick if I'm not going to be doing jumps and spins. I don't recall feeling any difference in turns or twizzles.
dbny: What kind of boots and blades do you have now and what are you thinking of switching to? (I think I remembered you saying you had Klingbeil but am not sure, but I definitely didn't ask you what blades you had...) (Hey, that's just my experience...YMMV)
Yes, Klingbeils. In fact I'm going there tomorrow morning for yet another adjustment. I've been there so much lately that when I called for the appointment on monday, the receptionist told me she recognized me behind Katarina Witt at Skate America. Soon, Don is going to invite me to try another brand and will probably pay me to do so :roll:. I've been on Coronation Aces almost from the beginning, and always 9.5". I could go another 1/4 inch shorter, but I think the shorter tail on a dance blade might really feel better to me because of the roller skating. In any case, I'm not doing anything too expensive, and I might have to try another boot simply out of desperation, so I would be putting my money there first.
soogar - there is no need to be snarky. I know 3's can be done on Aces, I do them on Ace's now, and no, my friend does not get a kickback from any pro shop.
TashaKat
10-27-2005, 01:09 AM
You may (or not) remember that I used to switch between Dance and Free blades and didn't have a problem after the initial 'getting used to' period. I did find 3-turns MUCH, MUCH easier in Dance blades, spins were more difficult but not impossible. Jumps weren't as easy either though I did try all jumps up to Flip in them :D Saying that, though, my Dance coach almost pulled off a 2Axel in his! I say almost in that it wasn't quite fully rotated but then it wasn't as if he was a Free skater so it was pretty impressive :D
If I ever have the time and money to start skating again I'll still switch between blades as I found Dance easier in Dance blades.
crayonskater
10-27-2005, 09:29 AM
My inclination (having asked my pro-shop-owning coach) is that 3-turns are easier in dance blades due to the rocker, certainly, but that a problem with a 3-turn is more likely due to technique than a serious problem with the blade.
Rather like how a k-pick helps with triples, but that it's nothing that couldn't be accomplished with better picking technique. (And certainly not something necessary for singles.)
The back of the blade shouldn't be a factor because your weight isn't over that part when you turn.
If you're thinking of doing dance anyway, especially with your roller skating background, it probably makes sense to switch to dance blades; but otherwise, there's lots of other things you may need a freestyle blade for, and obviously you can't change out blades mid-program. :)
luna_skater
10-27-2005, 11:06 AM
If you think you might like a shorter blade but want to keep freeskating, definitely consider synchro blades. I've been wearing synchro blades for almost 10 years, and have been using the Ultimas since 2000. They are the same width as a free skate blade, and just a bit longer than most dance blades. The Ultimas still have a decent-sized pick on them. I have no trouble with all my single jumps, and they advertise that you can do doubles in these blades (I haven't gotten that far yet!). I can't comment on spinning, because I never really took a serious whack at spinning back when I had crappy free skate blades.
CanAmSk8ter
10-27-2005, 02:00 PM
Do you know anyone who has dance blades you could try out? It might be worth a shot (I'd reccommend Coronation Dance, they're more similar to freestyle blades than the MK Dance or the Ultimas) but I'm skeptical that they'll really help much, plus there can be a real adjustment period. I hate to say it, but your fear of going off the back of the blade could be valid- I never did it, but I've come close.
icedancer2
10-27-2005, 02:45 PM
I was thinking about Coronation Dance, too -- might be just the one!!
I feel like there is no perfect blade. I guess I would like to design my own blade, just for me, so I could skate better. I know exactly how it could be designed -- and of course I would love the opportunity to just say, "No, that one didn't work, let's try another" until the right one was found -- and only have to pay for one pair.
Now wouldn't that be nice?
(I know this isn't answering your question dbny, but honestly, wouldn't that be great? -- I have several friends who are going through blade-agony at the moment [including me] and I think we all wish we had the same size feet so we could trade off blades -- in fact, I have a whole closestful of blades that I could try if only I had the time... -- hey, what size do you wear? Maybe I could lend you a pair??)
I switched from freestyle to Dance Blades about 15 years ago -- from Coronation Ace, where my 3-turns were just fine thank you -- to a blade called Wilson Dance (which they don't make anymore), which was a Wilson Majestic with the backs cut off (and yes, much more $$ than the Majestics, I might add). This was a normal-width blade with lower-level freestyle picks, shorter than a freestyle blade but not as short as the MK Dance or the Super-Dance 99. I found the 3-turns more difficult in these blades because I kept riding up and hitting the toe-pick, especially at first.
BUT I got through my dances through the Silvers and one pre-Gold in these blades, felt comfortable with all of the solos (though I didn't test solo) and now wish I could just have those blades again, because when I switched to the MK Dance, things started to fall apart for me dance-wise. 3-turns were not a problem, though.
I used the MKs for about 4 years, did Dance, Moves AND Figures in them and then switched to the Super-Dance 99 when I got new boots this year. 3s are pretty easy on the Super-Dance 99. Doing back 3s in Dance blades is no big deal (I can't do all of them, though -- I think it's more a matter of technique) because you still turn on the rocker of the blade, not off of the backs.
So I don't know what the answer is, but I wish you well.
BTW -- I watched that SA broadcast and tried to figure out which one of those ladies behind Katerina Witt was you -- PM me?
Thanks for all the ideas. I wear a size 9.5, if anyone has a spare pair or would like to unload an old pair with not much blade left. I was looking at the synchro blades, because I saw some on sale for $136, but my budget can't go that far at the moment.
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