Log in

View Full Version : Decision time--what should I do? Please help!


oz01
08-09-2005, 10:48 AM
My husband and I like to keep our 6 year old daughter at ISI but feel like if we tell her coach, our daughter won't get as much attention any more since most of the coach's students skate at USFSA. My husband likes our daughter to switch to another coach and I like to keep the coach since she is very good technically. What should I do?

stardust skies
08-09-2005, 02:03 PM
Well, why do you want to keep your daughter in ISI? Is it because you don't want her to deal with all the competition that happens in USFS? Or because you want her to only do this recreationally? Either way, if there's no real reason for her to stay ISI, perhaps you should try USFS as well. If she's serious about skating then she'll want to get started on the program and its tests ASAP.

If you never want her to take it to the competitive levels (aka regionals, sectionals, nationals, etc...) and you want to keep her ISI for this reason, then find a recreational/ISI coach. It is true, and I will not lie, that a coach who has mainly competitive, USFS students, will most likely give the ISI student less importance. Although honestly, when you are IN a lesson, a good coach should give you his/her undivided attention. But it's possible (and likely) that your daughter's lessons might be cancelled with little notice to accomodate someone testing the week after, or going to a competition, or similar interruptions.

I personally think everyone should enroll in USFS, even if it's just to test out- the MITF and the structure of the tests (testing in front of judges, not coaches) makes for better skaters. You can see the drastic difference in even edge quality if you go to ISI Worlds, and then go to *any* little interclub USFS comp. ISI's most important comp doesn't have the quality of skating that the USFS's most obsolete comp has. And that's just something I've seen with my own eyes. But if you still just want to keep her ISI and nothing else, then find someone who will accomodate that, and who you have no doubt will not treat your kid differently for it.

CanAmSk8ter
08-09-2005, 05:03 PM
What level is she in ISI? If she's below Freestyle 5, the only USFS competitions she'd do well in would probably be Basic Skill comps, which are very similar to ISI comps- there's probably no real point in switching her over yet. If she's Freestyle 5 or above, she could compete USFS No-Test or Beginner events, but she could continue to compete and test ISI as well.

I'm sure her coach's more advanced students do get more attention, but at six years old ISI may well be the better place for your skater regardless of her level. A good coach should understand this and not treat her as less important because of it. One important thing to consider is how your skater would handle going to a competition and not getting a medal, or taking a test and not passing it, because these are things that happen in USFS far more often than in ISI, and they're often hard for young skaters to deal with.

As far as changing coaches, have you talked to your daughter about this possibility, and if so, how does she feel about it? What are your husband's reasons for wanting to change?

kgl2
08-10-2005, 08:23 AM
Depending on the structure of your rink, wy can't she do both? Our rink held classes for the ISI, and private instructors taught skills for both ISI and USFSA tests. I found that the USFSA structure got my kids moving through the skills quicker (especially the jumps and spins) and they worked ahead of the ISI tests. So when it was time for an ISI test, my kids were already comfortable with the skills, and they rarely failed an ISI test. But, for young kids, or kids who are not natural athletes, I liked the ISI structure because each test sets definite and unchanging goals: a jump, a spin, a field move, etc. That's easy for a young kid to remember.
I didn't move my kids to USFSA until they were in FS 5. My youngest passed FS 7 and her USFSA intermediate tests. My oldest passed FS 10 and her Senior USFSA tests. And the ISI 10 was way harder than any USFSA test, more like the Canadian competitive senior test. It would have been impossible for the oldest to pass 10 without USFSA coaching. IMHO, I think you need USFSA coaching to get anywhere past ISI FS6.
And you need a coach who is willing to do both. I was very lucky in having the support of some very good people to guide me through the process.

twokidsskatemom
08-10-2005, 03:51 PM
I agree with above. Most kids here stay ISI at least till an axle or ISI fs 4/5.My kids skate both USFSA and ISI.
What goals do you all have? Does your skater really want to compete and understand she will not always place well?If she needs the experience of performance, ISI at first is the way to go. They have lot more things to compete in than USFSA for that level.
Ie My 6 yo ISI level 3/4 will do an ISI comp where she will do 8 or 9 events.She will do an local USFSA comp, at no test, where she can do 2 or 3 events tops.She likes the EXPERIENCE of all of it, so she does skate both.
Even if your 6 yo just does USFSA, the older skaters who are having more lessons, and doing more things, will take more attention than a low level skater n o matter which route you go by.
You have lots of time to pick what YOUR CHILD wants, so just wait a bit and let her skate :)

oz01
08-11-2005, 11:37 AM
Thank you so much for your responses.
My daughter started skating because of me. We used to watch figure skating on TV and practice together. She totally loved skating and progressed very fast. Maybe I am biased, but I think she is talented (she landed single loop and lutz after one lesson). However, I had a baby a few months ago and she doesn't seem to be interested in skating as much. She still takes private lessons once a week but hasn't learned much in the past year. I have seen too many kids pushed by their parents at early age and don't want to do that to my daughter. I hope she can keep skating in ISI and maybe one day she will beg me for more lessons then we can do USFSA. She is learning axle. Her coach mentioned more than once about starting doing basic skill competitions in USFSA.

My another concern about USFSA is money. A skating mom just told me that each month her daughter's skating cost is about same as their mortgage payment. All the USFSA skaters I know (as young as 6 year old) take at least 5 half hour lessons a week. My husband and I make decent money but it sure will be very hard for us to have 5 lessons a week. Is skating just for the rich?

My husband has his concern. He thinks competitive skating takes too much time and a child should spend more time on reading. He has no problem with our daughter just skating in ISI. He thinks our daughter's coach is too good to care about ISI skaters. WE are just wasting our money if we continue paying her.

Thanks again for all yor advices

stardust skies
08-12-2005, 04:30 AM
Well- one lesson a week isn't enough if your girl is already working on her axel. It will take her so much longer to get it that way, if she gets it at all (and she might). But when you start working on axels, you wanna consider at least 3 lessons of 20 mins. a week. And 1 or 2 moves in the field lessons (these are tests that come before each freestyle test in the USFSA format, and make so many improvements on a skater's overall skating). Yes, 5 lessons a week is typical. Once you start doing doubles, you need that much. When you do triples, you will need more. And there's always both freestyle and moves in the field to learn.

I'm not sure that skating's only for the rich, but it's, IMHO, when talking about a kid that wants to make it, only for the rich or the poor willing to sacrifice everything in order to level with the rich. Michelle Kwan's dad sold their house to pay for Kwan's skating. It's a leap of faith, and most kids won't make it. If your kid wants to stay recreational, there is NO NEED to spend so much money- 2 or 3 lessons a week should be fine, and if you can only afford less, then do less. But the thing is that one lesson a week is ok for single jumps- after that, you are not going to see much progress with a weekly class. Skaters plateau after singles. Either you up the coaching and ice time, or there's no way they will be able to grow and keep up with doubles. Doubles require endurance, muscles, and a lot of excercises and reptitions that cannot be done in 20 minutes' time of lesson once a week.

As far as "time should be spent reading", well, I guess every family has different beliefs. While I love to read, and value every book I've read...I think skating's taught me more about life than any book ever could.

oz01
08-16-2005, 09:02 AM
Thank you again! Stardust skies:
I again talked to a skating mom yesterday. She told me all good kids (USFSA pre-ju and up) have 1 hour lesson a day 6 days a week. Is it typical for your skaters and most USFSA skaters? Or just my daughter's coach requires more?
I want to gradually increase to 2-3 30 min lessons a week. Do you think with that my daughter has any chance to land a single axel?

phoenix
08-16-2005, 10:34 AM
Thank you again! Stardust skies:
I again talked to a skating mom yesterday. She told me all good kids (USFSA pre-ju and up) have 1 hour lesson a day 6 days a week. Is it typical for your skaters and most USFSA skaters? Or just my daughter's coach requires more? I want to gradually increase to 2-3 30 min lessons a week. Do you think with that my daughter has any chance to land a single axel?

Heavens, you certainly don't need 6 hours of lessons a week yet! She needs time to practice too, & unless she's skating 3-4 hours a day, that much lesson time would just be wasted. And anyway, your daughter wouldn't be pre-juv level, she'd be pre-preliminary. Re. her landing an axel, of course she has every chance in the world. She's only 6. Whether she gets it in a year, or less, or more, depends entirely on her ability, determination, practice, etc.

Kids that skate at such a young age need to be having fun. Period. Whether they eventually excel at competition is secondary, and frankly, right now whether she gets that many lessons a week won't matter much in the long run. And if she's pushed hard & fast to get that axel, doubles, work harder, longer, etc. she'll just end up hating it & quitting.

The other thing is, you do what you can afford. Throwing a fortune (beyond what you can afford) into a 6 year old's skating is foolish at best. You have no idea yet how far she can, or will want to, go.

You are giving her an opportunity to live a lifetime of healthy activity, learn how to focus, set goals, strive for something that is difficult to attain, control nerves, be an independent analytical thinker, be confident. All of these things will stand her in very good stead for the rest of her life. If she becomes a successful competitor on top of that, great. If not, she's still gotten invaluable skills that will carry over into anything she does.

Okay, just re-read that & realized I'm ranting & not really addressing your questions.......breathe.....breathe...... :oops:

My opinion is that the USFS program is superior because of the Moves tests requirement, among other things already mentioned. If you don't want her to compete, then don't compete. Just because someone's testing USFS doesn't mean they have to compete. And as others have pointed out, she can do both.

If she connects with this coach (VERY important for a young skater!) & is improving, I'd think you should keep her. You should probably sit down w/ the coach & have a conversation about goals, what you want out of her skating, etc. If the coach will only work w/ kids who are on the fast track to compete, then maybe you'll have to switch. But don't assume anything until you've talked w/ the coach.

kgl2
08-16-2005, 11:48 AM
I definitely think your daughter will be able to land an axel, if she wants to badly enough. But 6 1 hour lessons a week? 8O Yeesh, that's what my senior lady got, and she was working on triple flips!
I would think twice about what that skating parent told you. I think lots of parents are very willing to take things to an extreme because it makes them feel that they have an "exceptional" child. Once a coach tells them that their child has talent, they stop thinking practically and put everything they've got into skating. And then when the kid has a growth spurt and reaches 5'8", or finds a boyfriend, or decides they want a car instead of ice time, they realize they'e thrown away the equivalent of a college education.
I' m very suspect of any coach who allows parents to go overboard with kids who don't have a full (or almost) set of doubles. When the child is as young as yours, if it isn't fun, it isn't worth it. A 6 year old needs time to play with friends, ride their bike and develop other skills besides just skating. Skating did a lot for my 2 daughters, but not at the expense of their social, emotional, and academic development. Let her be a kid first, then a skater!
Sorry if this seems ranting, but I've seen lots of parents "taken" by lots of coaches who push too hard to soon.

CanAmSk8ter
08-16-2005, 08:08 PM
Thank you again! Stardust skies:
I again talked to a skating mom yesterday. She told me all good kids (USFSA pre-ju and up) have 1 hour lesson a day 6 days a week. Is it typical for your skaters and most USFSA skaters? Or just my daughter's coach requires more?
I want to gradually increase to 2-3 30 min lessons a week. Do you think with that my daughter has any chance to land a single axel?

I don't know any pre-juvies who have that kind of lesson time! Most of the kids I know at that level have two or three 30- or 45-minute lessons a week and skate four or five days a week. I would think that two half-hour lessons a week sounds about right for your skater's age and level, and I don't see why she couldn't land an axel with that. At 6, the axel may take her awhile; even nine- and ten-year-olds frequently take six months or more to land a clean one, and often longer to get it consistant.

I agree that it may be time to schedule a conference with your daughter's coach in regards to goals, committment, and what her expectations are vs. what your expectations are. Get it out on the tabe and then make a decision about whether your daughter should switch coaches, start USFS, or stay ISI and whether you want her to compete or not.

twokidsskatemom
08-16-2005, 11:07 PM
At this point, Im not even sure what you are asking?
Yes, Im sure there are a ton of kids who have lessons once or even twice a day.
There are also a ton of kids who have lessons once or twice a week.
First, and not to sound mean, its not about the AXLE. Its about the skaters love of skating. Its also alot about power, speed, edges, control,spins, presentation, footwork. The whole package.
Just because some has an axle or doesnt, doesnt make them a good skater.Its not just about tricks. Landing a loop once doesnt mean its good enough to put in a program to compete.Kids land jumps, lose jumps and land them again.My skater age 6 could test pre pre today and pass. But she will not test until she has her axle.What is the hurry?My skater has her loop/loop, her waltz loop, her sit and camel spin. She also has her first 4 dances.All of this on two lessons a week.
Second, what does your daughter WANT?Does she want to test? Does she want to compete? Does she get the idea that she will not place first everytime?Does she want to do ice shows, exibitions?Every skater is different.Every child is different.
My skater has two 30 min lessons a week and 2 power/stroking classes. She also spends alot of time practicing moves, jumps, spins.Is your daughter self motivated? Does she want to practice?Even the boring stuff?
Skating can be spendy or it can be three times a week for fun.Its what you make of it !! :)

stardust skies
08-17-2005, 03:04 AM
Thank you again! Stardust skies:
I again talked to a skating mom yesterday. She told me all good kids (USFSA pre-ju and up) have 1 hour lesson a day 6 days a week. Is it typical for your skaters and most USFSA skaters? Or just my daughter's coach requires more?
I want to gradually increase to 2-3 30 min lessons a week. Do you think with that my daughter has any chance to land a single axel?

Ah yes, the Skating Parent Snob (tm) who has so much money dripping out of their ears (most likely that the husband earns while the mother does nothing other than flaunt said money) that they wouldn't understand value if it smacked them in the face.

Put it this way: I'm skating Junior this year (which is 4 levels up from pre-juv) and I don't even have 1 hour of coaching 6 days a week. I have 40 mins. 4 days a week, and the 5th day I have to myself, unless it's competition season (which is now upon us...) in which case I get 20 mins on the 5th day. I do not skate weekends, never have. I work out, though. But anyhow, some parents like to validate how "serious" their kid is about skating by telling you how many lessons or how much they spend on them, and if you can't do it too then your kid isn't "worthy" or something. It's total crap. My mom used to tell those people "wow, your daughter takes an HOUR to learn what my daughter can pick up in 20 minutes...I am so sorry for you." It's true. I never had an hour a day (yes, some kids do...although NOT at pre-juv!!) and I still got the jumps quicker than most of my peers.

I would say, the MOST your kid would need is maybe 30 mins 4 times a week. This is the most and probably already bordering on too much...but anything over that will be wasted at this level. There is so much still for her to learn...and it gets harder from here on out...if you had her coached for an hour a day, then what would she need when she's learning triples? 2 hours a day? That's ridiculous. That parent who talked to you clearly has a kid with no attention span, no focus, and no internal motivation, otherwise she wouldn't need to be coached an hour at a time 6 days a week. Most of us can take what we learn in a lesson and work on it on our own and improve without having someone watch over our shoulder.

Instead of feeling bad or like you're not giving your kid what she needs when you hear stuff like this- laugh instead. Because those parents are trying to one-up you, and they're not.

PS: As for the axel, no one can tell you if she'll get it, or when. IMO it's an easy jump, but...some kids never, ever get it. You can't tell. And if she gets her single, she may never get her double, and then she will never be competitive in anything past preliminary, which I think you can only compete in until you're 10 or so. So, no one can tell. You gotta let her do it cause she loves it, and if she doesn't progress...so what? At least she's staying fit and having fun. Time will decide the rest.

Isk8NYC
08-19-2005, 10:14 AM
While you obviously need to have a discussion with the coach, remember that it's your child and wealth at stake. She seems to be doing well with the lessons and time she has on the ice. At the age of 6, she should be having fun on the ice. She certainly has skills, both mastered and potential.

Just make sure she makes friends: that's what Clubs and practices (without lessons) help establish. A sense of belonging and friendship will go a long way towards teaching her sportsmanship, commitment and achievement. The ISI really does try to emphasize those ideals.

There's no reason she can't test the USFS track as well. She doesn't have to compete in those events, although the Basic Skills are fun.

This is best worked out with the coach.

Tania
08-19-2005, 09:44 PM
At six, anything lesson over 20 minutes is supervised practice. Very expensive. Most children at this age have a limited ability to concentrate on learning anything new. Fortunately, six year olds do have the drive to master things that interest them so they will practice until they get it right...on their own.

Teacher and former skating mom:)

twokidsskatemom
08-19-2005, 09:52 PM
At six, anything lesson over 20 minutes is supervised practice. Very expensive. Most children at this age have a limited ability to concentrate on learning anything new. Fortunately, six year olds do have the drive to master things that interest them so they will practice until they get it right...on their own.

Teacher and former skating mom:)
Not for all kids.Maybe for most.But that is a blanket statement which doesnt have to be true.

Lmarletto
08-21-2005, 10:32 PM
My (recently turned 7yo) daughter's coach has a fair number of mid-level kids and probably an equal number of kids working on single jumps. The coach's advice to me was "no more than two 20 minute lessons per week until a child can spend 2X that amount of time practicing on their own". And that's real, focussed practice on the elements they're working on in lesson, not just skating around doing what's fun and comes easily. We've actually backed down to one lesson a week to make room for other activities my daughter was reluctant to give up.

When I commented one time that I doubted that my daughter had the right sort of temperament for competitive figure skating, her coach was completely :roll: (in the nicest way :lol: ). She's had kids who dabbled until 9 or 10yo and then, all of a sudden, became obsessed and progressed very quickly. And then she's had others who were obsessed at 5 or 6yo and by 8yo had given up skating completely. She claims that only a masochist would plan a skating career for a 6yo. I like very much that she has let my daughter set a pace that is fun for her. BTW, this coach is strictly USFSA.

twokidsskatemom
08-21-2005, 10:39 PM
My (recently turned 7yo) daughter's coach has a fair number of mid-level kids and probably an equal number of kids working on single jumps. The coach's advice to me was "no more than two 20 minute lessons per week until a child can spend 2X that amount of time practicing on their own". And that's real, focussed practice on the elements they're working on in lesson, not just skating around doing what's fun and comes easily. We've actually backed down to one lesson a week to make room for other activities my daughter was reluctant to give up.

When I commented one time that I doubted that my daughter had the right sort of temperament for competitive figure skating, her coach was completely :roll: (in the nicest way :lol: ). She's had kids who dabbled until 9 or 10yo and then, all of a sudden, became obsessed and progressed very quickly. And then she's had others who were obsessed at 5 or 6yo and by 8yo had given up skating completely. She claims that only a masochist would plan a skating career for a 6yo. I like very much that she has let my daughter set a pace that is fun for her. BTW, this coach is strictly USFSA.

But as I have said before, there are kids who can practice on their own.There might not be alot of kids like that, but I feel like no one thinks there are self motivated kids who are 5 or 6.

Lmarletto
08-21-2005, 11:14 PM
But as I have said before, there are kids who can practice on their own.There might not be alot of kids like that, but I feel like no one thinks there are self motivated kids who are 5 or 6.
I didn't mean to imply that there aren't. My daughter's coach has one now and the little girl actually does practice on her own for about an hour, 3-4 times a week. She seems like she's having a very good time. But most of the kids her age spend most of their time outside of lessons goofing around. She appears to have absolutely no interest in their games. I think either situation is fine as long as parents, coach and kid are all on the same page.

twokidsskatemom
08-21-2005, 11:27 PM
I didn't mean to imply that there aren't. My daughter's coach has one now and the little girl actually does practice on her own for about an hour, 3-4 times a week. She seems like she's having a very good time. But most of the kids her age spend most of their time outside of lessons goofing around. She appears to have absolutely no interest in their games. I think either situation is fine as long as parents, coach and kid are all on the same page.
Im sorry, its the pms talking I think :)

I guess because I have a skater who does things people say she shouldnt , it seems to bother me kwim?
She practices 3 days a week by herself, and has lessons two days a week for 30 minutes.She skates 2 hours a day, 5 days a week.
She practices her 4 dances she knows, she warms up stroking,she works on moves in the field, she does her edges, crosstrokes, progresives,backstrokes,her jumps 5 times each, her spins 5 times each, she runs through all her programs ect. She doesnt need prompts, she knows what to do. She does come and get me sometimes, to ask me to watch her do something.She wants to learn it all now.
If she can, and the ice is empty, she puts on music and works on interpetive.
if she wanted to stop tomorow, we would be very happy.But this is what she does.

oz01
08-22-2005, 09:06 AM
Lmarletto:
It's been so hard to find a good coach like your daughter's. WHere do you live?