Coplanar blades

[Casey]

These were brought up in another thread, but there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding, and I for one did not understand what these blades were all about until very recently.

If you look carefully at the front sole plate of any non-coplanar blades, you'll see that it is indeed *not* flat (planar), but rather follows a curve, which is a holdover from the days when pond skaters used to strap on blades to the boots they used to walk to the pond.

If you go to http://www.iceskateology.com/ and click on the coplanar logo over on the right, you'll see a very good illustration of this. In addition, the flat sole plate on traditional blades is NOT parellel to the front sole plate - if you were to take off your blades and place a flat object on the heel plate extended towards the front, you would see that it reaches a point below the front sole plate. I didn't really believe it until I looked at my sole plate from the side carefully and realized that this is true. I also took one of the Majestic blades off of my old skates and place it upside down on the desk - sure enough only the front- and rear-most points of the sole plates touched the desk.

There's also loads of good information there on the subject. The "coplanar" name comes quite simply from the fact that both sole plates are flat, rather than just the heel plate as on traditional blades. Ski boots went through this very same change 60 years ago.

So on traditional boots, the bottom of the boot is not flat, but slightly curved, and the blades are made to match. On boots made for coplanar blades, the bottom is perfectly flat. This results in the toes pointing slightly more downward, and supposedly results in longer stroking since the center stanchion is comparatively higher - sustained momentum with less effort.

In addition to freestyle, dance, and multi-purpose blade offerings with the triangulated stanchion at the rear, they also have a Pattern 99 blade which is identical to the regular Pattern 99 except for a flat sole plate.

The reasoning of the triangulated stanchion is that it provides added structural integrity for high g-force landings, and is a safety measure to prevent stepping on the heel of the blade in close footwork resulting in a nasty fall. The hole relieves weight.

There's more information about the history behind these blades, and acceptance by various bootmakers (not much outside of S.P. Teri and Klingbeil) here:
http://www.iceskateology.com/About.html

[*IceDancer1419*]

is there somethign in paticular that makes them easier/better?

[Casey]

is there somethign in paticular that makes them easier/better?
I thought I just explained that, LOL. Must not have done a good job.

According to their claims, with a flat boot sole, you can skate better because:
A> your toes point slightly lower in a more natural position.
B> the center stanchion is higher as a result of the sole plates being level, which generates more power in stroking, etc.
C> with any of the 3 triangulated models, you are much less likely to fall if you step on your (or your partner's) blade heel since your blade will just slide right off.

[luna_skater]

Other than the triangle at the heel, how are these different than Ultima blades then? Ultimas also have flat plates. When you have them mounted to your skates, you either have to have your boot sanded down, or the plate does not lie flush with the sole (which doesn't affect performance as far as I can tell; on my new skates the soles were not sanded down and you can see how the blades do not lie flat...but it's not affecting my skating).

[icedancer2]

People that I skate with that had the coplanars switched back to regular boots/blades. They did not like the coplanars at all, and didn't feel they made them "skate better".

I think it's all marketing. They know that what we all want is to skate better, and so they tell us that's what will happen with such-and-such new boot/new blade/new gimmick.

Technique. Practice. Technique. Practice.

Patience.

Do I sound like a broken record here? ;)

[Blosmbubbs]

I knew a skater with those coplanar blades with a kpick and she had graf boots.

[JulieN]

Other than the triangle at the heel, how are these different than Ultima blades then? Ultimas also have flat plates. When you have them mounted to your skates, you either have to have your boot sanded down, or the plate does not lie flush with the sole (which doesn't affect performance as far as I can tell; on my new skates the soles were not sanded down and you can see how the blades do not lie flat...but it's not affecting my skating).

With the Ultima's, they just have to sand down the front part of the boot so that it is flat. With the Co-Planars, they have to put a wedge on the heel. It's hard to describe... maybe when I get a chance, I'll post a picture of my modified Graf dance boots with the co-planar blade.

When I switched to co-planars back in 1998, it took me about 5 or 6 hours of skating before I got comfortable in them. Before that, I had MK Professionals that had gotten extremely flat and had no rocker. I believe I was adjusting more to having a rocker again than having co-planars.

A few years ago, I was considering switching to Ultimas so I borrowed a friend's skates who wears the same size as me. She has Harlick boots and Ultima dance blades (not the Ascends, but a cheaper version that is now discontinued). I couldn't skate at all! It put me so far back on my heel. With the co-planars, my weight is more towards the center of my foot. And the boots were like rocks. She said it took her a month to adjust to the Ultima's. I don't know what she had before that. She hated it at first too, but now will skate on nothing else.

Someone else had mentioned something about how the blade doesn't really make that much difference -- the bottom line is the skater and technique. I agree with this. I chose the co-planars because that's what my coach recommended for me. Plus I have the luxury of having the inventer of the co-planar mount my blades and sharpen them and he really does a great job! If I had switched to Ultima's, I'm sure I would adjust to them and then would skate fine, just like my friend.

[Casey]

With the Ultima's, they just have to sand down the front part of the boot so that it is flat. With the Co-Planars, they have to put a wedge on the heel. It's hard to describe...
On both coplanars and Ultimas, the sole plates are flat.

On coplanars, the two sole plates are level with each other, so you could put the blade upside down on a table and the sole plates would be resting entirely on the surface of the table.

On Ultimas, though the front sole plate is flat, the angle of the front and rear sole plate is different - if you set them upside down on the only the back of the rear sole plate and front of the front sole plate would be touching the table - they follow the same traditional angle difference.

All other blades have a concave front sole plate.

Alternatively to sanding the front flat and wedging the heel to have the same level, you can also order custom boots specifically designed for coplanar blades. Klingbeil and SP Teri offer this option.

Hopefully that clarifies things a bit...

[luna_skater]

On Ultimas, though the front sole plate is flat, the angle of the front and rear sole plate is different - if you set them upside down on the only the back of the rear sole plate and front of the front sole plate would be touching the table - they follow the same traditional angle difference.



My Ultimas would disagree with you. :)

Julie, it would be great if you could post a pic!

[diagetus]

IceDancer - People that I skate with that had the coplanars switched back to regular boots/blades. They did not like the coplanars at all, and didn't feel they made them "skate better".

Lol. Well, I guess this is a blade who's consistent favor is neither here nor there. I was at a skating session just this evening and talked with guy who owned some coplanars with custom klingbeils. (You can tell because the blade has a branching back stem/triangle instead of a single stem). When I asked about the blade, he said that he tried them out about two years ago and said that the transition period was zero. He liked them and said he would never go back. Of course, his opinion was that the flattened boot/flattened blade setup needed to replace the traditional configuration and blamed the slow progress of the product more on a inert skate community and not the technology. His point was exactly what CaseyS said - the traditional boot is curved at the toe because it is a walking boot. A skating boot, on the other hand, would need to have: A. a curved plate to fit the curved boot (which is hard to do) or B. a flat boot to fit a flat plate. Right now, most plates do not contour perfectly to the boot just as many boots do not contour perfectly to your feet (unless it's a custom). I kept his comments in mind, but I'm still not running out to buy anything new anytime soon.

With new technology, it's not always a matter of making skate tricks easier, but overall improved body care. A new product may be less injurious. This isn't limited to just physical equipment. It applies to training methods as well.

[Casey]

I've been keeping this option in mind as I'm getting custom Klingbeils soon, so having them made for coplanar blades would be an easy option. It's just that it would really suck if I ended up not liking them and was then stuck with boots I couldn't use for regular blades! They haven't really got a lot of choice in blades - their own freestyle blade and their version of the pattern 99 are really the only options I would consider, since the others aren't really made for freestyle.

That limit of choices will probably keep me from ever trying them unless one day I chance across a whole bunch of extra money so I can afford the possible loss. :P

[stardust skies]

Ehhh...as I always say: if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

I think there is a reason why people won't switch into new technologies, whether it be hinged skates, coplanar blades (I'd never even heard of them before) or anything else: because what we have right now works well enough- sure there's injuries, but those are because of overtraining, ill-fitted and chosen boots, higher levels of difficulties at a younger age, etc...

As far as technology advancing to accomodate these "evolutions" in the sport, sometimes there's nothing you can do. Sometimes you have to realize that you have the best product you can, and that if you want less injuries, you need to stop encouraging 8 year olds to do triples and you need to start promoting better training habits and physical therapy from the start. The same thing happened with ballet- they made the Gaynor Minden this shoe that supposedly reduced impact while dancing en pointe. Well, I got them, and let me tell you....they went right out the window. Those things were crap and I'd rather dance on glue and folded newspapers. It works. And hey, if it it's good enough for all those top ballet companies out there, it's good enough for me. And same for skating! All the top skaters have regular blades, and regular boots. If it's good enough for them, it's surely good enough for me, and for you too.

[Casey]

Well put stardust, I know of at least one skater (online) who is the proud new owner of hinged boots with thos nasty matrix blades... *shudder, retch*. How much you wanna bet that if he sticks with them and still overtrains to the same point as other skaters who have gotten injuries on regular boots, that he won't end up with his share of injuries too?

Edited to add: Coplanars don't make any claim to prevent injuries though, I don't think.

[Casey]

Well I was just browsing around, and happened to notice coplanar blades on the feet of both Trent Nelson-Bond and Natalie Buck, whom are the current national Senior Dance champions in Australia:

http://www.isa.org.au/buck-nelson-bond-2.jpg

So, some top skaters are wearing these blades, at least... :)

[stardust skies]

Not to take away any of their accomplishments, but in certain countries, it's not all that hard to win because of the sheer lack of competition, so unless they go somewhere on the world level, I don't really consider them "top" skaters. I think that right now, the only countries who have very strong internal competitions are Japan and the U.S., really.

This perception obviously differs from person to person, it's just my personal opinion.

[icedancer2]

Not to take away any of their accomplishments, but in certain countries, it's not all that hard to win because of the sheer lack of competition, so unless they go somewhere on the world level, I don't really consider them "top" skaters. I think that right now, the only countries who have very strong internal competitions are Japan and the U.S., really.

This perception obviously differs from person to person, it's just my personal opinion.

I was going to say something like that, stardust, but you said it much better than I could have!! Thanks!

[prettyinpink]

Thought I'd jump into the conversation here...

I'm a tried-and-true coplanar girl. I find it kind of interesting that some of you have never heard of them, since I've been in them for just about 9 years and when I first bought mine, I thought they were pretty well known. Shows how much I know! :)

I'm going to be ordering my 5th pair of Klingbeils within the next week with my 5th pair of MK Conchord Coplanar Dance blades attached. I switched from SP Teri to Klingbeil when I quit freestyle for ice dance, and found the transition from freestyle blades to coplanar dance to be relatively easy, despite the change in length. That said, the majority of people I know who dance are in coplanar blades, while the freestylers I know aren't, despite the fact that MK makes coplanar freestyle blades. The consensus among those that I know with coplanar blades is that they like them because of the edge quality versus regular blades. I'm also a fan of the triangle at the back of the blade, as it has saved me numerous times from getting hooked with a partner's blade :)

I think a big part of it is the kind of boot you have. The other reason I switched to Klingbeil was because I needed custom skates to fit orthodics when I was younger, and thus the coplanar blade came along with it. But, to each his own! :)

[aussieskater]

Not to take away any of their accomplishments, but in certain countries, it's not all that hard to win because of the sheer lack of competition, so unless they go somewhere on the world level, I don't really consider them "top" skaters. I think that right now, the only countries who have very strong internal competitions are Japan and the U.S., really.

This perception obviously differs from person to person, it's just my personal opinion.
stardust skies, ITA. Sadly, we don't have a great depth of skating in Oz. (But we seem to do OK at summer sports...! Might have something to do with the fact that it's currently our mid-winter and is 16 degrees C at 3 pm right now.)

[jazzpants]

Not to take away any of their accomplishments, but in certain countries, it's not all that hard to win because of the sheer lack of competition, so unless they go somewhere on the world level, I don't really consider them "top" skaters. I think that right now, the only countries who have very strong internal competitions are Japan and the U.S., really.Not even the Russians? :o

[vesperholly]

I think a big part of it is the kind of boot you have. The other reason I switched to Klingbeil was because I needed custom skates to fit orthodics when I was younger, and thus the coplanar blade came along with it. But, to each his own! :)
How did your coplanar blades "come along" with custom Klingbeils (or do you mean orthodics)? I know quite a few people in Klingbeils including myself and none of them have coplanars. I believe their "default" is non-coplanar, but they can adjust to make any boot coplanar since they are after all customs.

[prettyinpink]

How did your coplanar blades "come along" with custom Klingbeils (or do you mean orthodics)? I know quite a few people in Klingbeils including myself and none of them have coplanars. I believe their "default" is non-coplanar, but they can adjust to make any boot coplanar since they are after all customs.

if I remember correctly (and this was 9 years ago, so my memory may be a little foggy), the Klingbeil dealer I went through suggested coplanar blades because of the orthodics. I should have made myself clearer, sorry! :)

[stardust skies]

Not even the Russians? :o

Well I was going to include them with the U.S. and Japan, but then I realized: The Russians have some of the BEST skaters in the World, it's true, but they only have one for each discipline: Irina for ladies, Plush for mens, Totmiamana (sp?)/Marinin for pairs, and Navka/(what IS his name?) for dance. So really, these people own everyone- but as soon as they retire, I think the Russians are going to be a while before they come up as a threat on the World level again. Plus, there's not that much internal competition. The people above win everything Nationally, and the people behind them are very FAR behind...IMO. I wouldn't call Andrei Griazev, Ilia Klimkin or Elena Sokolova big World threats anymore, and yet they are pretty much the next best things after Irina and Plush to come out of Russia. So that's a pretty large gap, IMO.

[Casey]

...and Navka/(what IS his name?) for dance.
Google says: Tatiana Navka and Roman Kostomarov

[stardust skies]

Google says: Tatiana Navka and Roman Kostomarov

Bingo! I've met him a couple times, you would think I'd remember. Nice fellow. But with a partner like Navka, I think any guy would get eclipsed. :bow: