Oy!! Cost of shipping skates!!

[phoenix]

I sent my skates back to Klingbeil today to have them rebuilt; strategically planned to take advantage of the holiday when lessons are cancelled, so I won't miss much skating or teaching. So I shipped them overnight; I went to the UPS store, thinking it would be cheaper than Fed Ex......with the packing fee (I didn't have a good way to package them), the total was a little over $100.00!!!!! 8O 8O Jeez, after paying Klingbeil $35.00 for the rebuild, and then shipping them back to me, I could have just gotten on a plane & talked to Don in person!

Does anyone know of a cheaper way to send them back?? I really have to have them by Thursday, so they will probably have to go overnight again.....so I may just be screwed. Has anyone else ever done this?

[stardust skies]

Well this may seem like an obvious and I'm guessing that if this were an option, you'd have already done it- but why not have a reputable pro shop do it for you instead? You don't HAVE to send them to the original maker. It might be worth it to drive an hour (or two, or three) and have them done by a good pro shop, rather than sending them (lord knows what'll happen with the heat, and delays, and packages getting lost). I would never send my skates out unless there was an unfixable defect and the company needed to send me new ones. Just my thoughts.

[phoenix]

Well, they're replacing the tongues, which it never occurred to me that someone else might be able to do. For future reference, can a pro shop do that sort of thing?

[vesperholly]

I had my skates rebuilt by Klingbeil last summer, and it was $50 shipping total. I think the overnight was what did it. I was without skates for about a week and a half with sending regular postage. Anything that needs to be expedited you usually pay out the nose for. :giveup:

[skaternum]

Yeah, I did 2nd day delivery from NC to Klingbeil, and it was less than $40. Overnight = $$$

And I would never have anybody other than Klingbeil rebuild my skates. I just don't trust anybody else.

[Casey]

My plan is to start working every day to save up money like a madman, then drive to New York to be fitted in person by Klingbeil, then stay in New York, working through a temp service while I'm there, until the boots are done and absolutely perfect.

Won't have to pay for shipping, and working during the couple weeks I'm in New York will hopefully cover the cost of the trip. Should be quite an adventure!

[icedancer2]

ROAD TRIP!!

Sounds like fun!!

[stardust skies]

Well, they're replacing the tongues, which it never occurred to me that someone else might be able to do. For future reference, can a pro shop do that sort of thing?

YES, a good pro shop absolutely can do that. Which area are you located in (pm me if you would prefer), I might be able to suggest a spot. The best place in the U.S. to get boots rebuilt, IMO, is Cooke's in Wilmington, MA- but if you're not at all in the general area, I might still be able to find a place. And I would not send you anywhere I wouldn't send my own skates, so if I sincerely don't know of a great place, I will just tell you so. Boots are too important.

[stardust skies]

My plan is to start working every day to save up money like a madman, then drive to New York to be fitted in person by Klingbeil, then stay in New York, working through a temp service while I'm there, until the boots are done and absolutely perfect.

Won't have to pay for shipping, and working during the couple weeks I'm in New York will hopefully cover the cost of the trip. Should be quite an adventure!

Well, if you're up for tha adventure that's great and it sounds real fun, but...be advised that (having lived in NYC), everything is SUPER SUPER expensive, starting with places to stay, and there are lines upon lines of people just begging that a temp agency will call them back...even if they've got diplomas and have been signed on for months. It's a really tough city. It would be much, much cheaper to just send your foot diagram, picture, even have a cast taken of your foot if you want to, and do it through correspondence. I mean, I've never been personally fitted by my boot company, and they still do a great job. No problems whatsoever. And if I do have a problem, I have a great skate person who re-adjusts my skates whenever I need. I mean at the end of the day, you will need to find a reliable skate sharpener and boot person. So might as well start looking now. And when you find him or her, you will be able to fully trust them to deal with your customs.

If you want to have a fun trip, go for it- but as far as to guarantee your boots will be perfect- you can't. They're handmade and there's always risks of errors, whether you go in person or not. And if that's all you're going for, it is not worth it, and you risk losing a LOT of money. Just my words of warning.

[icedancer2]

YES, a good pro shop absolutely can do that. Which area are you located in (pm me if you would prefer), I might be able to suggest a spot. The best place in the U.S. to get boots rebuilt, IMO, is Cooke's in Wilmington, MA- but if you're not at all in the general area, I might still be able to find a place. And I would not send you anywhere I wouldn't send my own skates, so if I sincerely don't know of a great place, I will just tell you so. Boots are too important.

I have had friends who had their boots rebuilt there -- and they had very satisfactory results. I am glad to hear they are still doing it -- wish I had "known" you when I wanted to get my old boots rebuilt -- I may have gotten a couple of years out of them.

Do the Cooke's have a website? I will go have a look...

[icedancer2]

Here is the Cooke's website:

http://www.cookesskatesupply.com/

Pretty reasonable prices for rebuilds, I would say -- they haven't changed much in 15 years!

[Casey]

Well, if you're up for tha adventure that's great and it sounds real fun, but...be advised that (having lived in NYC), everything is SUPER SUPER expensive[...]And if that's all you're going for, it is not worth it, and you risk losing a LOT of money. Just my words of warning.
Mostly it's for the adventure. I don't work a regular job - I work for my own company with one other person which I can do from anywhere with an internet connection, and occaisionally through labor halls when I need some extra cash. I've done the latter for enough years to know that work is readily available anywhere for the willing, and if I stick around here, without the pleasure of skating, I'll end up doing the same thing anyways. I'll also probably spend most of my time on the east coast in Rochester and places in Maryland where I used to live, so the expense won't be that ridiculous. And heck, it'll be one of those experiences of a lifetime to be fitted in person by Klingbeil, not to mention the fun of driving across the country (I already did so last year when I drove from Atlanta to Seattle (2700 miles, versus the 2900 to New York), and years ago when my mom moved from Idaho to Maryland).

Plus I know there are good reputable boot fitters - Klingbeil recommended a woman in Oregon - but my bad experience has left a bad taste in my mouth. I might still end up going that route, or I might fly out there instead, but right now driving seems to be the most appealing option. In any case, I've got to save up money like a madman, so starting Monday (probably) I'll be working every day I can to save up.

[Stormy]

I just got my skates rebuilt at Cooke's last week. NO ONE touches my skates but Scott Cooke! :)

[*IceDancer1419*]

I have multiple friends who've gone through a lady around here... honestly can't remember who, maybe it's the same one that's down in Oregon. :) At any rate, they've had great experiences, and while I certainly understand the fun of going all the way there, it might just end up not being quite worth the money... just a note saying I know MANY people who were extremely happy with their fitters. :)

[stardust skies]

Exactly- and at the end of the day, Mr Klingbeil will do the same exact thing that a good fitter would do: take tracings, maybe make a mold, take a picture of your foot, etc...which you could just send over to him. He's not going to mold the boot TO the actual foot and build around it, haha. Although that would be great, albeit a little time consuming. But in the end, being there in person will make absolutely no difference on the boot given to you. And if you need maintenance or anything goes wrong with the boot when you get it, it is SO SO SO much better to have ordered it from someone local who can stand behind it and do anything to it that needs done, aka punching it out etc...Whereas if you bring a boot bought elsewhere (even from the manufacturer itself), they will make you pay for adjustements, and they may not be as willing to stand behind the product and help you out. I just think you should order it from someone local, whether you go take a vacation in New York or not. Seriously. But good luck either way.

[crayonskater]

A girl I skate with has Klingbeils, and she's had them fitted both by Mr. Klingbeil and by our coach, who also owns a skating shop... and she's said that our coach is better at fitting them, and although the experience is kind of fun in New York, it wasn't anything that ensured perfect boots.

But yeah, I think I'm inclined to agree with stardust here.. it's not as though having your foot around in New York is going to make the boot fit better. And you will need maintenance on your skates, potentially, after the break-in period, and having a local dealer you can trust is probably worth a lot more in the long run. All it seems you're saving is shipping hassles. Word of mouth can help you find someone reputable, and is someone you can work with in the future (I imagine you're not going to want to drive across the country all the time.)

And New York is insanely expensive. I'm sure you can find work, but rent alone is nuts! Better to save the money and spend it on lessons! :)

[stardust skies]

Well Casey said he knew people around Maryland (which is still really far from NYC, though..) so I don't think he'd pay rent, but...even gas money, and everything else, is something that could be better spent, I agree with Crayon. I guess the general message is that going there won't give you a better fitting boot, and that when you need maintenance, you'll probably regret not having established a relationship with someone local to stand behind your boot from the very beginning. Mr. Klingbeil serves a LOT of people, including a large number of high level and elite skaters. Very, very few of them ever go to New York for fittings, and they are doing just fine.

I understand what it's like not to trust anyone after something bad has happened- I once had a streak of about five people in a ROW who sharpened my blades badly, and it was going from bad to worse, and by the time I tried a sixth person I was so, so desperate that I nearly had a panic attack while he was sharpening my 500 dollar blades, but....he fixed everything that had been done wrong to them, and gave me a perfect edge. I have never and will never go to anyone else, and I can sleep a lot better at night knowing that I have someone reliable right in my neighborhood to give me the perfect edge everytime I need a sharpening. You'll eventually need to find someone you trust. You gotta keep looking. I guarantee there's people in at LEAST your time zone. ;)

[skaternum]

I chose to have Mr. K do the fitting himself in NY because my feet are just plain difficult. He started out making corrective shoes before he got into doing skating boots, so I know he's going to be able to handle all the weird issues I have with my feet (bunions, pronation, arch problems, etc.). He's seen everything in the decades he's been doing this. The only authorized Klingbeil dealer near me just doesn't have that experience.

And, quite frankly, I'd rather NOT have a middle man if I'm trying to get my boots adjusted. I don't want my fitters husband working on them, nor do I want the fitter to try to explain to Klingbeil what needs to be fixed. I'm perfectly capable of doing that myself. And if the problem was that the measurements weren't entirely right, the company can't do a whole lot. They can only work off what they're given. If Mr. K took my measurements, he's going to do everything he can to make those boots fit right! And I know from experience that many fitters/pro shops just won't keep working at getting your boots right the way I would. Unfortunately, some of them just pass the buck.

For people with reasonably normal feet, a local fitter might be fine. But not for me and my feet. I'm really glad I went to NY for my fitting. These are the only boots I've been happy with.

[jazzpants]

Well, if you're up for tha adventure that's great and it sounds real fun, but...be advised that (having lived in NYC), everything is SUPER SUPER expensive, starting with places to stayI agree with stardust skies. It's very expensive staying in NYC at a hotel while there. Three star hotels can easily run you about $180 if you're lucky. Thank goodness for me, I am able to stay with the in-laws and all I have to do is take a half hour to an hour train to Penn Station in NYC. And based on my recent trip experience there... don't go during the winter!!!! (WAAAAAAY too cold for this CA gal!!!) BRRRRR!!! (But I will say though that I LOVED it there!!! It was a fun city to be around in. Plus, it's fun skating at Trump's Central Park's FS session, taking a lesson with my "NYC coach" at the Sky Rink, and of course, hanging out with DBNY!) :mrgreen:

Not discouraging you... but...

[Casey]

Well I looked into Amtrak, and it's cheaper than driving with less risk of unexpected surprises (and doesn't require fixing my car first), but then I have a lot more limited mobility and am stuck in NY. Since I don't really have any money as it is, the hotel cost is quite concerning - I'd probably have to resort to staying at a homeless shelter, LOL. :)

I think I was lying to myself before - while the adventure aspect of it is appealing, I don't think it's the major reason I want to go - I think the real major reason is that I am distrusting of boot fitters and the thought of having to ship them back multiple times for corrections scared me. I think after a lot of thought that you guys are right - I think I might instead go to the fitter they recommend in Oregon.

No, I'm not indecisive or anything!

[stardust skies]

Being indecisive is normal. You wasted a lot of money because your previous fitter advised you badly and didn't listen to you or your concerns. Meanwhile, if it makes you feel any better- I really doubt Mr. Klingbeil would risk recommending somebody unless he knew for certain that they were reliable and have a good working relationships. And if this fitter is good, you might not even need to send them back and forth. Once might very very well do it. I've never sent my skates back. I've never actually had them punched out or adjusted either. Just rebuilt. But...if I needed to get them punched out, I would just have the local fitter do it. It's pretty much a no brainer. Good luck on everything! :)

[Isk8NYC]

Klingbeil's itself IS an experience: kitschy/eclectic decorating, NY coffee and bagels, entertainment (as Don teases people). You do know it is in Queens not Manhattan, right? You may not get the adventure you're expecting.

If Don recommended someone, you can trust them.


As to the original shipping question, if you watch the Sunday sales circulars, Staples, UPS Stores, and OfficeMax occasionally offer discount coupons for shipping.

[phoenix]

WELL--- I found out that the UPS Stores & and the plain ol' UPS do NOT charge the same for shipping! The stores set their own prices. True story: shipping my skates to Klingbeil via the UPS store cost me $103.00. Klingbeil shipping them back to me cost $58.00!! 8O 8O 8O

Boycott the UPS stores!

[Isk8NYC]

Well, that explains the coupons in their stores. Taking a bit off the markup, huh? What about Mailboxes, Etc. stores? Same deal?

[Isk8NYC]

Klingbeil shipping them back to me cost $58.00!!

You paid Klingbeil's $35 for the rebuild. Did you have to pay the $58 shipping in addition to that charge? If not, you got a bargain! If so, the average shipping was $80 each way. (Small consolation, I know, but you got the skates both ways safely.)

You could try complaining nicely to the UPS store. Maybe they can give you a price adjustment for goodwill since you're now ready to boycott their stores.

[skaternum]

WELL--- I found out that the UPS Stores & and the plain ol' UPS do NOT charge the same for shipping! The stores set their own prices. True story: shipping my skates to Klingbeil via the UPS store cost me $103.00. Klingbeil shipping them back to me cost $58.00!! 8O 8O 8O

Boycott the UPS stores!Um, how did you think they make money? They're not shipper; they're a middleman. You pay for the "convenience" and not waiting in line at a real UPS, FedEx, or post office. BTW, I shipped mine from the U.S. Post Office, with insurance. Reasonably cheap.

[blue111moon]

You also paid the UPS Store people for the packing materials and to pack it for you, plus you paid for the overnight shipping - Premium service costs.

It's cheaper to DIY.

[phoenix]

Twice as much? I don't consider that a reasonable mark-up. Klingbeil shipped it back to me the exact same way I shipped it to them. And I paid 12.00 for the packing, so that makes the first shipping about $90.00.

And for some reason Klingbeil gave me a discount on the rebuild, down to $15.00. I'm not sure if it was because they took longer than originally stated, or maybe the damage was so bad they considered it partly a defect? Anyway, I'm glad for that!

[flippet]

BTW, I shipped mine from the U.S. Post Office, with insurance. Reasonably cheap.


Yep--definitely look into shipping by the post office next time. I ship large packages overseas all the time, and it's nearly always cheaper to send them through the USPS, than it is through FedEx, or UPS, or DHL, or any of those services. Even with purchasing extra insurance, or certified delivery/return receipt, etc. And yes, it's much less expensive to package your items yourself. (For instance, at the post office where I've worked, we charge 5 cents for each strip of tape if you've forgotten your own, six cents for a regular envelope, etc., etc.--and we generally didn't carry any padding at all. It's certainly not free.) Just be sure you're adhering to regulations--which basically means no writing/printing on the outside of a pre-used box--black it out (and the USPS won't take AVON boxes at all anymore...good to know), and tape it well with packing tape (not masking or scotch tape). Send your skates with covers on the blades, so when the post office asks you if you're sending anything dangerous, you can say no.

Also, let your fingers do the walking--all of these services have a website (post office is www.usps.com), and you can compare costs for the size and weight of your package, and method/speed of shipping, across the board.

[Casey]

flippet, why wouldn't you take the blades off before shipping the boots back for work? I bet the bootmaker takes them off anyways to be able to work with them, and it would reduce the weight and therefore the cost of shipping.

I also agree with USPS as the best way to go. UPS has damaged multiple packages I've shipped, costs more, and of course won't deliver to P.O. Boxes. If I really cared about the package not getting damaged I've heard better things about FedEx, but I've never had USPS damage anything.

[Isk8NYC]

flippet, why wouldn't you take the blades off before shipping the boots back for work? I bet the bootmaker takes them off anyways to be able to work with them, and it would reduce the weight and therefore the cost of shipping.

Blades are sometimes tricky to get just right, so I wouldn't remove them. By the way, Klingbeil doesn't take the blades off to work on the skates. I've had rebuilds, tongue replacements, adjustments - you name it! They don't even keep the guards on them. (Maybe that's so they don't misplace the guards.)

[icecatepairs]

OK I should probably read this whole thread more carefully before I reply, but I'm going to put in my 3 cents worth anyway. I live in New York and have worn klingbiels from bronze through gold and i am famliar with the area as well as the klingbiel system. If you are really set on having klingbiel fit the boots (i wouldn't have anyone else adjust mine!!) here are a few options...the actual fitting /measuring can abe done by any of his recommended reps....its after the boot is made that you might want to consider coming to NY. keep in mind that he only takes appointments on thursdays, fridays and saturdays. and it can take months from when you are measured to when they come in. when he notifies you that they are in you might want to come up north for a few days. there are plenty of reasonablly priced hotels within 1/2 hour drive of queens, and lots of rinks. there is $65 a night hotel in stamford, three blocks from a rink, and 10-20 minutes from another 3 at least. i would suggest saying a few days. let him ship you the skates and skate at home to see what needs to be adjusted. then bring them with you to new york. see him on a thursday morning and skate your butt off on thursday and friday and have another appointment already set up for sat. he should be able to get it right by then. remember, gone are the old heavy klingbiels. I broke mine in 5 days before my gold moves and free test. within one day i was doing axels, and on the second day full program with doubles. third day we did pairs. limited throw jumps, but were able to death spiral. all of this would have to be planned in advance,. i you are interested , pm me and i can help you. i know the rink schedules and areas ionside out from our traveling gypsy pairs practicied (we practice on 9 different rinks!!!) good luck