Rocker questions / blade concerns / boot fitting?

[Casey]

I'm sorry this is a long post, but I have a number of questions I hope some of you may be able to answer...

So, not being able to talk to the pro shop about my boot problems until Monday at the earliest, I've been thinking a lot about what a worst-case scenario of not being able to get replacement skates is going to be.

I'll have to save up for a good while, do some extra work, and get new boots; possibly stopping skating for a while (I don't know how much longer my boots are going to remain skateable - they're growing slightly worse every session). This is going to really suck because my current skates cost over $800, but I might not have a lot of choice, and it's not really the end of the world. I've been told that larger blades can be used on slightly smaller boots if you have the manufacturer make the sole long enough for them.

Well I pulled the footbeds out of my Grafs, and looked at the coloration from where my toes sit. My right boot is more than a half-inch too long, and my left boot is over 3/4" too long (and I just realized my feet are not the same size). Geez...and the fitter tried to talk me into getting a half size larger!!

I hear stories of boot fitters taking all sorts of measurement of your feet - mine just measured the length of mine on a Graf-branded measuring tool, and it said 11. I bought 10.5. What pisses me off is that when I tried on the skates, they seemed to fit well when laced up (the padding was new then), but if I loosened the laces all the way down, I could slide my foot forward enough to put a finger in behind my heel - the boot fitter told me this was normal and fine, and still wanted me to get size 11. I went to the best rink in town - why did I have to get a crappy fitter? *sigh*

Though my jumps are pretty good, my spins suck - it's very hard to find a center balance - could this be related to my foot being 3/4" shorter than the boot? Even though I'm a counter-clockwise jumper, clockwise spins were easier initially (they aren't now that I've practiced CCW spinning to death for months without practicing CW). Also, while almost everything is easier on these blades than the JW Majestics I had before, back 3-turns are a lot harder, if that indicates anything...

I have MK Gold Star blades now - needless to say these were quite expensive and since they've only had like 4 sharpenings, they obviously have a lot of life left and I'd rather not have to buy new blades.

BUT, the difference between the length of the boots versus the length I need makes me concerned that re-using these blades will not be possible, because the current blades barely fit on the skates I have as it is - the sole plates are right up against the very front and back edges of the sole. Can anybody give me a reasonable guess on this?

Will I need to get different-lengthed blades for different-lengthed boots considering that my feet are 1/4" different, and blades come in 1/4" increments? Is that an easy thing to do?

How much can one generally resell good-condition blades for? They have a few dings from where I've hit the blades together, mostly on the sides of the toepick, and one has a tiny spot of rust on the joint between the sole plates and blade that was there when I bought them new, but are in otherwise great shape. They skate very well - the rocker is perfect, etc. I'm a bit concerned about finding a buyer because they are 11.75" long, which isn't exactly a common size.

I've also been thinking about switching to a blade with an 8' rocker if I do have to replace them, largely because I like to skate very very fast, and I've heard that 8' rockers enable one to skate even faster. I also have heard that they are more stable - sometimes on my current blades (especially in forward spirals) my foot will wobble, but this usually goes away after resting a minute or stretching. However I've also heard that spinning is more difficult. Has anybody else here changed from 7' rockers to similar quality blades with 8' rockers? What were your experiences?

[*IceDancer1419*]

Hmmm... I think you *might* be able to stick with your blades, actually. Can you go to another fitter just to find out the size blade yoU WOULD need? It's not the end of the world if they're a little bit long, usually.
Considering your feet are probably not gonna grow much (i think :roll: ;) :P ), 1/2 to 3/4 inch might well make a difference. If your foot is wobbling, it *could* be the "bigness" factor as well. I used to have a pair of 8.5 Reidells, and Reidell runs big. I could fit not 1, but 4 fingers behind my heel... the long way, of course :roll: (well, my coach's fingers, which are probably larger than mine!) 'nuff said ;) I didnt' notice how huge they were (I bought them on ebay before I knew *anything* about skates, and didn't go through a fitter at all) till I got my lovely new 7.5 SP Teri's which I LOOOVE (done now :P )
IF you find a way to fix up the boots, you might still be able to sell them on Ebay or something. Not that YOU have to fix them, but if you can tell the person how they can be fixed, it might work. Or say that they really should be used by a more beginning skater who won't be too hard on their boot. :) That might work too. Selling the blades... well, I don't know, honeslty. How much did the ycost again? (if you don't mind my asking). I think they're around $400... you might be able to get a decent price, but I doubt there are too many people who want that size....
Remember that I am completely far from an expert here, though i am an Ebay addict and also overly interested in knowing about other peoples' skates (i have researched different brands, etc, too much just cuz I'm a dork like that ;) ).

Good luck with that boot! I hope you can get at least a partial refund. That's HORRIBLE. My coach is getting a refund (she will make sure of that, and she can be mighty feisty when she wants to 8O ) for her custom Harlicks, which came back in REALLy bad condition from their 3rd adjustment. So, yeah. I *hope* you can get something. That really, really sucks. :(

[icedancer2]

Though my jumps are pretty good, my spins suck - it's very hard to find a center balance - could this be related to my foot being 3/4" shorter than the boot? Even though I'm a counter-clockwise jumper, clockwise spins were easier initially (they aren't now that I've practiced CCW spinning to death for months without practicing CW). Also, while almost everything is easier on these blades than the JW Majestics I had before, back 3-turns are a lot harder, if that indicates anything...

I have MK Gold Star blades now - needless to say these were quite expensive and since they've only had like 4 sharpenings, they obviously have a lot of life left and I'd rather not have to buy new blades.

BUT, the difference between the length of the boots versus the length I need makes me concerned that re-using these blades will not be possible, because the current blades barely fit on the skates I have as it is - the sole plates are right up against the very front and back edges of the sole. Can anybody give me a reasonable guess on this?

Will I need to get different-lengthed blades for different-lengthed boots considering that my feet are 1/4" different, and blades come in 1/4" increments? Is that an easy thing to do?

I don't know the answer to this, but I would like to know -- I have just gotten new boots with different lengths (by 1/2 size) -- my blades are both the same size, but, of course, one blade fits perfectly and the other one is too short. I would love to have two different sized blades but I figured that I would have to buy two pairs of blades and kind of mix and match. UNLESS I could find someone ELSE who wanted the same blades and wore the same size as me except that the foot size was the opposite of mine -- anyway, you get the picture...

My problem is that dance blades (which I wear) are really short anyway, and my coach and I both think that the left one (the one on the bigger, longer boot) is too short. There's really nothing I can do about it.

My blade guy (he mounts the blades -- I had my boots fitted (measured) by the manufacturer when they were here for Nationals) -- says that with freestyle blades it doesn't matter if the boot sizes are different -- it happens with custom boots virtually ALL of the time and nobody gets different sized blades, so you probably don't have to worry about that.

I've also been thinking about switching to a blade with an 8' rocker if I do have to replace them, largely because I like to skate very very fast, and I've heard that 8' rockers enable one to skate even faster. I also have heard that they are more stable - sometimes on my current blades (especially in forward spirals) my foot will wobble, but this usually goes away after resting a minute or stretching. However I've also heard that spinning is more difficult. Has anybody else here changed from 7' rockers to similar quality blades with 8' rockers? What were your experiences?

I don't do freestyle so I can't comment on spins, but I have just gone from a dance blade with a 7' rocker to one with an 8' and they are much, much faster -- the "run" on them is incredible, the only problem being that at my age (unfortunately) the speed scares me to death except when I'm doing just plain stroking and crossovers and stuff -- as soon as I get into the dances I start to bail...

Anyway, if you HAVE to get a new blade (which I suspect you won't) you might want to consider the Coronation Comet -- they are a LOT cheaper than your Gold Stars and have an 8' rocker (or maybe 8 1/2'?). The people I know who use them really like them because they are fast. You also might consider the Pattern 99 -- they have an 8' rocker and a slightly lower stanchion, which might make you more stable.

Blades are tricky. It's too bad you can't just try more without wrecking your pocketbook and the soles of your skates.

Good luck, Casey. I can tell you are kind of obsessing about this situation (I would be too) but it will all work out. Most of us obsess about our equipment -- it's nice when we can just shut our brains up and just skate, but that day, too, will come.

[Skate@Delaware]

I have the comets and I love them!!! They are absolutely great! When I first got them and went out on the ice, it was like a hot knife through butter! I was doing synchro, and as the end person on the kick line, I was getting tired but when I wore these for practice (and in a show) I was finally able to keep up without as much effort.

I can stroke 3-4 times and then glide almost the whole length of the rink! I am absolutely sold that if you can't yet afford new boots, at least get new blades! What a difference!

I believe they have an 8' rocker on them and I have a 1/2" hollow. I sharpen them about every 20-30 hours or so (I like 'em sharp, seem to spin and do edgework better).

[Isk8NYC]

Blade lengths are "recommended" based on the boot's sole length. However, there can be a 1/4" variance - so you can have a blade that a little longer or shorter than the standard blade size. You can keep your old blades when you get new boots, or use the same pair of blades on different-sized Left and Right boots.

The key is in the mounting, which I DO NOT profess to be an expert. (I really want to be, however.) The fitter has to be certain that the blade is centered on your foot side-to-side as well as in the proper spot front-to-back. I think they usually match up the heel plate first, but in the different sized boot case, they will probably measure back the same distance from the toe.

[jenlyon60]

I had 9" MK dance which fit my current pair of Klingbeils pretty good--I probably had about 1/8 to 1/4" of "extra" at the back. Changed to 9" Ultima Ascend (same boots) and had a good extra 1/8" at the back of the blade.

I have new boots on order and we specified to have the soles made to fit my 9" Ultima Ascend blades, as they're only about 18 months old and have a fair amount of life left in them.

[Skate@Delaware]

The key is in the mounting, which I DO NOT profess to be an expert. (I really want to be, however.) The fitter has to be certain that the blade is centered on your foot side-to-side as well as in the proper spot front-to-back. I think they usually match up the heel plate first, but in the different sized boot case, they will probably measure back the same distance from the toe.
This is so true! Take it from me, mine were off by being mounted 3/8" to the inside too much on my right skate and it really screwed things up for me, who's not that great a skater! Imagine it would really screw things up for a better skater! It's fixed now and I'm in skater nirvana :bow: :bow: :bow:

[flo]

casey - what's your foot size?

[Casey]

casey - what's your foot size?
In properly fitted skates? Probably 9.5 or maybe 10. My current skates are 10.5, which are too large.

Here is a picture of the footbeds in anybody can confirm or deny that the boots are ill-fitted:

http://sk8rland.com/users/kc/pictures/?act=slide&archive=ice_skating-boot_problem&file=footbeds.jpeg

(as you can see by this, my left foot is 1/4" smaller than my right! Hey, you learn something new every day!)

[icedancer2]

Casey --

How do the boots feel? I am no expert on fitting boots, but maybe they fit the boots so they would fit your bigger foot.

You need a little "wiggle-room" for your toes (too tight or too short and you would definitely feel a cramp. Are they snug in the heels or do you feel your foot sliding forward in the boot?

Whenever I've taken the foot bed thingys out of my skates it always looked as though they were too long also, but they never felt that way.

Just wondering.

[phoenix]

It looks like from side to side they fit right. And I don't think your toe prints will come right to the edge in the front--they might be all right. Mine don't come all the way up.

Also, probably the toe prints are mostly made when you're kind of "gripping" with your toes, which would be farther back than when your toes are relaxed.

ETA, remember every skate brand is sized differently, so if you end up switching brands don't assume a 10 (or whatever) will be the correct size in that brand.

[Casey]

Casey --

How do the boots feel? I am no expert on fitting boots, but maybe they fit the boots so they would fit your bigger foot.

You need a little "wiggle-room" for your toes (too tight or too short and you would definitely feel a cramp. Are they snug in the heels or do you feel your foot sliding forward in the boot?

Whenever I've taken the foot bed thingys out of my skates it always looked as though they were too long also, but they never felt that way.

Just wondering.
The heels are pretty snug - the right one is actually more of a problem as it occaisionally rubs and gets a sore spot on it. I think the heel is held pretty well in place by the tongue and fact that I tie the skates very tight.

As for the feeling though, the toebox feels too roomy - more too *tall* than anything (i.e. I can press down on my toes, and lift the ball up a little bit, and vice versa). I have this same problem in one of my pairs of shoes that's a little too large (where it doesn't actually really matter), and in both my skates and shoes, if I slide my foot forward the problem goes away (I have to loosen the skate laces to be able to do this).

I may be overanalyzing, but I've been warned about the boots being too large by people who know a lot better than me in the past, and since they're now coming apart, I just want to get everything figured out so that when I do get another pair of boots, they're better. I bought this pair of skates with the intention of them lasting a loooooong time without any worries. I'd rather not fail at that goal again.

[Casey]

ETA, remember every skate brand is sized differently, so if you end up switching brands don't assume a 10 (or whatever) will be the correct size in that brand.
(what does ETA mean here? Certainly not estimated time of arrival?)

...and yeah, I know. My next boots will be customs anyways.

[phoenix]

:lol: ETA= Edited to add.....

[icedancer2]

It looks like from side to side they fit right. And I don't think your toe prints will come right to the edge in the front--they might be all right. Mine don't come all the way up.



I think that is right -- your toe-prints are only so much of the picture because your actual toe goes beyond the toe-print, at least on my feet. That's why when you get boots, they sometimes draw around your feet while you are standing up so that they get the correct size -- if you are sitting down, your weight will be distributed on your butt instead of your feet, which will spread a little while you are standing.

You might want to try this. Draw around the outside of your foot while you are standing. Cut out the drawing and then compare it to the footbed thingys that you have pulled out of your boots. My guess is that the cutout drawings will be larger than your toe-prints on the footbed thingy.

Now I'm obsessing about your obsession. :roll:

I will have to see whether I can lift my toes in my boots and whether if I press down on my toes I can lift the ball off the bottom of the skate. I have a feeling that I will be able to and I think that's okay.

As far as your original question about not being able to spin in these skates -- spinning is hard -- the boot/blade may make a little bit of difference, but you just have to get the feel of it. It's hard to describe -- I think of little kids learning to spin -- they don't really care or notice how their boots/blades are and they eventually get it...

Good luck with your boots Casey. Did you get the fitter to look at them yet?

[Casey]

I think that is right -- your toe-prints are only so much of the picture because your actual toe goes beyond the toe-print, at least on my feet.
Yes, well I put my feet on the footbeds, lined up the heel with where it actually sits, and all the toeprints... My toes maybe extend an extra 1/16th of an inch or so - but I took this into account with my earlier measurements.

I will have to see whether I can lift my toes in my boots and whether if I press down on my toes I can lift the ball off the bottom of the skate. I have a feeling that I will be able to and I think that's okay.
Probably...but in mine it's noticeable to a bothersome degree. For instance when I just do regular stroking, and push off with the flat my ball is not on the bottom of my skate until nearly the point that I step back onto that foot.

As far as your original question about not being able to spin in these skates -- spinning is hard
Oh, I can spin, if not well. It's just that spinning was easier to do clockwise at first, and I wondered if it might be because my right skate (spinning foot for CCW spins) fits better than the left one.

I'll respond further in the other thread that's more on the topic :)

[luna_skater]

If the ball of your foot is lifting, it sounds to me like your skates are either too big, or they are laced too loose. Are they snug in the rest of the foot?

[icedancer2]

Are you pointing your toes?

That might help.

(Just a thought). 8-)

[icedancer2]

Probably...but in mine it's noticeable to a bothersome degree. For instance when I just do regular stroking, and push off with the flat my ball is not on the bottom of my skate until nearly the point that I step back onto that foot.


I know you're probably pretty sick of this whole topic, Casey, but maybe you could put one of those Dr. Scholl's insoles in your boot so that they don't feel so big. I have also seen some "Bunga-Pad" type things that go just under the ball of your foot.

I got my new boots punched out yesterday -- then this morning they felt too big. I had to dink around with them for about twenty-minutes until they felt okay. At a certain point, I had to just say to myself, "Just Shut Up and skate!!"

Good luck with your situation. Keep us posted.

[TaBalie]

My blades are MK Phantoms, and I got them in 1988.

8O

They were originally on Harlick Customs (I think, I can't remember) which I got in 1988 when I was competing... I quit shortly after that, so the blades didn't get a lot of wear (I am sure my parents were pleased! LOL) . Fast forward to maybe 6 years ago and I had them put on some Riedells (can't remember, but they were not right for me and only had them a few months)... Then SP-Teri Super-Teris.

I just got Graf Edmonton Specials, and the blade is still fine!

On my SP-Teris (size 6C), they were not mounted correctly, and were extending past the sole at the front of the boot. I knew this was wrong, but where I lived no one really knew what they were doing, and I didn't want to buy a new blade.

When I just got my new Grafs last week, I asked the fitter "Is this blade still ok"? I didn't want to force the wrong blade just to save some money, since I really wanted to skate more often and committ to improving. The fitter said they were fine, and the blades fit perfectly. The blades are 9.5.

I know this is sort of an old thread, but perhaps the blade will work. My fitter said the blade CAN be longer than the boot, but it should always extend off the BACK of the boot, never the front.