Female ice dancer wears practice trousers to competition, claims cultural obligation

[dooobedooo]

See link on another thread:

http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=17800

What do other skaters think?

[samba]

This young lady was wearing less than the men wear, she had a sleevles top with lovely matching sparkly black trousers (reasonably tight so you could see the lines) I'm not a religious person but if a guy can wear trousers then why not the gals.

Frankly there are times when I have thought that some ladies could do with covering up rather than flaunting their worst assets, and before you call me fatist, I've been there and always dressed appropriately.

[Casey]

I think it's great! People should be able to wear whatever they want. I see girls practicing in sports pants and jazz pants all the time, and look good doing it! I'm not saying "down with the traditional skirts" by any means - I think they look fine too, but I think it should be the choice of the individual as to what they wear.

And yes, there are cultures where the amount of exposure typically required of a female skater is deemed inappropriate, and that keeps a lot of them from skating!

*imagines a stocky bearded Scotsman competing in a kilt* Oh my! Let's hope he's wearing underwear under there! :P ;)

[samba]

*imagines a stocky bearded Scotsman competing in a kilt* Oh my! Let's hope he's wearing underwear under there! :P ;)

Oh no please, doesnt bear thinking about!!

[TashaKat]

*imagines a stocky bearded Scotsman competing in a kilt* Oh my! Let's hope he's wearing underwear under there! :P ;)

and let's hope he doesn't spin ;) I was sent a photo which, erm, gives a good representation and, well ... no!

[Cactus Bill]

Oh no please, doesnt bear thinking about!!

Click on this link if you dare...

http://www.angelfire.com/on/lummus/Scotland.html

and for those of you who are a bit less adventurous...

www.kiltmen.com/

but I haven't found any of men competing in kilts (well...competing on ice, that is. There are plenty of shots of big ol strapping hulks tossing various sorts of very heavy ironmongery through the air whilst wearing a kilt...)

[samba]

You bad boy!!
Anyway Mrs Redboots we know you wear a kilt for your dance programme how about your other half? just joking honestly!!

Oh I just rememberd I saw an artistic programme a few years back now where a man wore a kilt and it was hilarious and in the best possible taste.

[crayonskater]

I was rather annoyed and a bit incensed by the ill-considered Koran comment in the other thread. But then I realized the comment was probably born out of ignorance; there are many cultures where short skirts are not the norm, and in many cases it has nothing at all to do with religion. (The film Bend it Like Beckham has a good example of this; the girl plays soccer in pants, her mother worries about her playing in shorts,etc.)

In any case. From what Mrs. Redboots said, it doesn't seem as though the girl was demanding to compete in a full-body veil or loose clothing. (There would be a point if a skirt was PART of figure skating, but I'm willing to bet it's a holdover because the discipline was developed when women wore skirts all the time.) And it's a perfectly reasonable expectation given that she probably practiced every day in a pair of skating pants (and probably every other girl did, also).

The body-line concern, tbh, strikes me as a bit of a copout. Last I checked, we didn't require the men to wear tights like ballet dancers or to wear skirts for their line. It strikes me as more so given that the girl was allowed to compete with a practice skirt around her waist.

Irina Slutskaya wore a pantsuit for her short program; I remember an old Katerina Witt routine done to Robin Hood with pants and a blouse. Ice dancing is a bit different; I love that the skirts are longer, layered and flow around beautifully, but I also think that it would be fine done in trousers.

[Figureskates]

I don't have a problems with it.

Being a male I am glad I don't have to wear those little skating
skirts. I would think it would be a "tad drafty" back there.

[*IceDancer1419*]

I don't like the short freestyle skirts (I mean wearing them... sometimes they look odd, but mostly it's wearing them ;) )
But I LOOOVE the feeling of a dance skirt swishing back and forth... the nice long ones are SO fun to spin in (as if I could spin :roll: ). Anyways, I do practice in pants sometimes, and skirts other times. Wearing skirts/dresses sometimes makes me feel more... "professional" :roll: but like I said, they're also rather fun ;) Pants are pretty comfy, though, and odn't involve changing back and forth ;) (though I have been known to walk around at school with over the boot tights and skating dresses on... with the over the boot part just hanging off the top of my shoe :roll: :P :lol: YES I am an addict ;) )

[samba]

Icedancer, I can relate to that, there has been many a time I have been in a rush to get to work after a lesson and just put my business suit over my rolled up stirrup tights, only to forget to change when I get to work and end up getting funny looks as they fall down over my feet. :oops:

[TreSk8sAZ]

I guess that I have mixed feelings about this whole situation. I don't know the woman or her culture, so I don't know her exact reasons for not wanting to wear a short skirt. I know there are plenty of people that are uncomfortable doing so, and the rule change for freestyle and pairs reflects this attitude.

But, I have to wonder why her coach didn't know that dancers still have to wear skirts. If it was going to be that big of an issue, why didn't the coach let her know ahead of time that she would be required to find something other than trousers to wear?

I understand there are many different ideas around the world on what is or is not appropriate for a woman to show. But the woman does have options other than a freestyle-type skirt. Long skirts, especially for dance, which this was, are perfectly acceptable. I don't know what length she is allowed to wear, so it may or may not be a solution. Trousers with a practice skirt, or competition skirt, like she ended up wearing could have been thought of ahead of time. The fact is, she joined a sport knowing the tradition has always been that women wear skirts.

I guess I don't really blame her, but more have an attitude of why wasn't the coach prepared? Especially if this was a beginner in her first competition. Best of luck to her in the future, and I hope that it all gets figured out with the proper authorities.

[samba]

Without wanting to pry I asked her if she could wear black stirrup tights as an alternative but she said no, she is a sweet young lady and was so nervous at first that she skated off in fright after the first few seconds but came back later to a loud round of applause. I would like to see her perform again in a year's time as I think its all there waiting to come out, watch this space.....

[NickiT]

Without wanting to pry I asked her if she could wear black stirrup tights as an alternative but she said no, she is a sweet young lady and was so nervous at first that she skated off in fright after the first few seconds but came back later to a loud round of applause. I would like to see her perform again in a year's time as I think its all there waiting to come out, watch this space.....

I couldn't agree more. I'm sure that she'll gain confidence and be back to compete in the future. She was extremely nervous and I can't help but think this whole skirt / trousers issue didn't help.

I agree with the previous poster about why her coach hadn't worked this out though. As a coach he should have been aware of the rules with regard to suitable competition attire. At least if she'd known in advance she'd have had time to decide whether to go ahead with the competition or not. I guess it just proves that even coaches make mistakes at times.

Let's just hope it hasn't put her off for good and that she can come up with a suitable solution for future competitions.

Nicki

[Mrs Redboots]

I, too, hope she hasn't been put off. Her coach was as gobsmacked as she was, to be honest - I don't think it had crossed his mind.... and yes, it probably should have done!

All the same, I personally thought she looked extremely good in the outfit she had chosen, and I can't think that the judges would have had a problem in seeing how well or otherwise she skated. In fact, tying a long practice-skirt round her middle rather hid things than otherwise!

I'm sure that, if she continues, she'll come up with a creative and pretty solution, she seems to me to be that sort of person!

As for the Scotsman in a Kilt, wasn't he the guy who played the drunken Scot in the Interp/Exhibition class at Sheffield 2 years ago? Can't remember his name, but it was a very funny programme.

The artistic programmes at this year's competition seemed to have a higher-than-usual proportion of cross-dressers (including a cross-dressing Torvill & Dean routine which nearly made me wet myself laughing) and male strippers..... you do wonder, sometimes!

[Casey]

and for those of you who are a bit less adventurous...
www.kiltmen.com/
Oh hey, I just finally looked at this page, and realized it mentions Utilikilts in the first paragraph. One of my current landlords was one of the founders of the company! It's a small world after all. :)

[samba]

Oh hey, I just finally looked at this page, and realized it mentions Utilikilts in the first paragraph. One of my current landlords was one of the founders of the company! It's a small world after all. :)
Bet he doesn't look as good as Sean Connery!!

[Skate@Delaware]

Who did an exhibition skate a few years back in a kilt skating to Braveheart? I remember the whole thing was very physical and sexy!!

[Clarice]

There was an adult woman in our club once whose Muslim husband was opposed to her wearing traditional skating attire (she was not Muslim herself). In deference to his feelings, she normally wore black tights under her skating dresses. She also had a long-sleeved flesh colored leotard with a relatively high neckline that she wore under her sleeveless or low cut dresses. He never came to watch her skate, and seemed satisfied that as long as she was totally covered up it didn't violate his religious convictions. I suppose this solution wouldn't be right for everybody, but it worked for them.

[jazzpants]

She could also do a skating number similar to that Japanese skater (Arakawa???) where she wears a pair of jazz pants under her black dress. (I think she was skating to an strings version of "Paint It Black" by the Rolling Stones...) It would definitely NOT violate the husband's strict Muslim beliefs and still look like an elite skater!!! 8-)

[ice-princess]

And yes, there are cultures where the amount of exposure typically required of a female skater is deemed inappropriate, and that keeps a lot of them from skating!

I don't actually think that it keeps a lot of people from skating, unless you know many people personally that don't skate because they have nothing to wear...

There are loads of different religious groups or plain and simple I-don't-want-to wear-a-skirt people at my rink and all of them have come up with perfectly reasonable ways of skating without wearing something that they don't want to.

I think the question that we should be asking is why is there a rule that makes skating in competitions more difficult for some people. I don't think that skating in trousers would give someone an advantage over the next person, but maybe I'm wrong...

[stardust skies]

I personally think that if you are going to join a certain sport, then you need to know the required attire for competitions. You don't go to a equistrian competition without the appropriate gear. Same with field hockey (actually, at our school, ONE guy was allowed to join the girl's field hockey team, cause there wasn't a guy one, and he was made to wear the skirt too, and guess what...he did, even though he was straight as a board and got a LOT of crap for i; but tradition is tradition). Same with EVERY sport. I mean, what if that woman wanted to be an Olympic swimmer? And she didn't want to show her legs? They wouldn't let her wear pants in the swimming pool.

I respect other people's religions (though I think forbidding women to show whatever they want to show is sexist, but we won't even get into that), but these people know ahead of time wha is required to compete in certain sports, and they should choose appropriately. Skating is being made more and more accessible to more and more different kinds of people, and rules are being accomodated for it, but it's really the ONLY Olympic sport to be doing it, and to still be called "elitist" or to be blamed for leaving people out when it doesn't alter rules even more. Gymnastics doesn't change it's rules. I think there have been enough rule changes in skating to last us a while, personally, and I don't see anything wrong with requiring ladies to wear skirts if we require gymnasts to wear leotards and male swimmers to wear speedos. It's the way it is for a reason. And ladies wear tights in skating. It covers more than any of the other two sports I listed, WAYYYYY more. If that's not good enough, well, no one is forcing her to compete, she could still skate for fun.

[Mrs Redboots]

The silly part was, nobody made her wear tights (she didn't!), she just had to wear a skirt. Which was just plain silly.....

I notice that the Indian long-jumper - Anya Bobby George, I think they call her - wears a far more modest T-shirt and shorts than many of her competitors, who wear what is basically a bikini. And many of the young women competitors from countries like Ethiopia do so, too. But women from places like Saudi Arabia just don't compete, end of!

I know there were some girls at my daughter's school who were not allowed to go swimming unless the school would guarantee that there were no men present - and most of the local pools offer women-only sessions, for that reason.