USFSA Rulebook Questions

[kar5162]

I find it difficult to find what I'm looking for in the USFSA's rulebook, so I thought I would ask here and see if anyone knows the answer or where to find it.

1) I believe once you fail (get a retry) on a test, you cannot retest it for 28 days. What happens if you do retest and you pass? When they realize this, do they take away your passed test? What happens if you've passed a contingent test after you passed the "retry" test and you pass that?

Example:
Aug 1 Test Juv MIF at Rink A (retry result)
Aug 20 Test Juv MIF at Rink B (pass result)
Sept 20 Test Inter MIF and Juv Free at Rink B (pass result)

2) If you were competing Inter free back in the figures era (late 70s-80s) and you are now an adult, you have to compete Masters. Do you have to take any standard tests to compete as an adult or can you just enter all Masters events (including AN)? Is there grandfathering into the Standard track - where would you have to start if you were interested in testing further?

Thanks,
Kim

[jenlyon60]

You CANNOT retest until the 28th day after a retry. If you are testing at the same club, it is typically the test chair's responsibility to ensure a re-test does not occur before day 28.

If you are testing at a different club, then you still have to get clearance from your home club. Our club requires that this permission be granted by home club test chairperson (who would know when the last time you tested was).

Contingency testing is typically test chair's option, depending on ice availability. Our MIF/FS test sessions are normally quite full so our MIF/FS test chair is tough on approving contingency tests w/i the same test session.

[Mazurka Girl]

If you retest before the end of the waiting period, the results are not supposed to be recognized & you would have to retake the tests again in the correct order. The club is not supposed to grant permission to take those other tests & a coach is not supposed to sign off on a test application knowing a skater is ineligible. If the tests have been taken at another club without your club giving permission, the results are supposed to be voided once your club has been informed.

[dbny]

I belong to a large club that sends a permission letter with every membership confirmation, so that could allow this circumstance to happen if the coach did not catch it. A change of coaches though, could get one into that awful situation.

[kar5162]

This isn't about me. However it came up recently. The situation is similar to what dbny describes where you get one blanket permission letter for the year. (Actually, it's probably the same club.)

There's a million rinks around the area and for many reasons, many skaters test at other rinks than their home rink frequently. The club holds test sessions at several rinks and each rink has a test coordinator. There is one overall test chair, but I would be surprised if that person reviews all applicants for each session, though it's possible.

The skater tested at one rink, was very close to passing and the next session was within 28 days. I doubt the coach even realized the test couldn't be taken for 28 days since it's never been an issue before. They decided not to test again so soon anyway, but I was curious about what would have happened if they had.

Anyone know about the second question? Could they just start in at Novice MIF?

Kim

[flo]

Something to think about is the likelyhood of a same judge showing up at the next test session. The coach needs to be enlightened.
As far as the second question, if the intermediate test was passed, or the third figure before 1977, then I believe you could compete in Novice Masters for non-qualifing events.

[Mazurka Girl]

Any coach who does not know the rule about the waiting period between tests should not be coaching skaters above no test level & taking money for it.

[dcden]

flo is right regarding competing in Masters Novice events. You can also compete in Championship Masters events, which combines Masters Novice, Junior and Senior (i.e. standard intermediate FS and up), at Adult Sectionals and Nationals.

[kar5162]

Thanks flo and dcden. That's what I thought. And the coach does know now.

As for Mazurka Girl...well, I would agree that coaches should no what they're doing, but I disagree with your statement. If the coach has only had one student fail a test, when are they going to learn about retests - probably after someone fails? Everyone has to start somewhere. Far more amazing to me was watching a Regionals competition last year and watching kids do incorrect elements in the short program, no flying spins in Juvenile, a triple in Juvenile, and many other things...and then seeing that the coach with the skater was someone I recognized and knew had been in the sport a long time and was "well thought of". I've also seen long time coaches enter their students in comepetitions 2 levels below test level - 6 months after passing the tests. I can excuse certain mistakes in newer coaches, especially those from other countries where they have wildly different testing and competition rules, but from PSA rated coaches and coaches who have had USFSA students for over 20 years it's ridiculous.

[Artistic Skaters]

Coaches not bothering to buy or review a rulebook is normally what causes the problems that have been listed. It's a discussion I've heard a lot about this year. They are charging fees for lessons & representing themselves as 'professionals'. When a degree or license is required for other professions they would be negligent or possibly even fined for doing things like this. A lot of times skating coaches charge as much or more than other professions that do require licensing & examinations. If they want to be considered professionals, they should wear the title responsibly.

[Artistic Skaters]

Originally posted by kar5162
Far more amazing to me was watching a Regionals competition last year and watching kids do incorrect elements in the short program, no flying spins in Juvenile, a triple in Juvenile, and many other things...
There's no SP in Juvenile & flying spins would be allowed but I know what you mean in theory & have seen it before. Things like editing music for the wrong times & other blatant errors. All it takes is a $10 rulebook & it's tax deductible for coaches. If they can't be bothered with at least that, I would question their motives & professionalism because whether they are a relatively new coach or an experienced one, it's damaging to the skaters.

[blue111moon]

The USFSA website has a section on Rulebook questions and one of the recent ones gave the exact rule on retests, as well as an explanation.

I believe that if the rule is violated, and a test is passed before the 28th day, then the results are voided, along with any other higher tests passed after that.

[Mazurka Girl]

kar5162, coaches have every opportunity to know those rules in advance. All they need to do is use their resources. If they want on the job training, they can charge a lesser rate & notify their students of that status. Not charge $60-$80+ & market themselves as professional skating coaches.