landings

[Shinn-Reika]

What causes two footed landings. On all of my jumps I know I can land perfectly but I have yet to completely polish them.

[Anita18]

Um, if you're two-footing all of your jumps I wouldn't consider them perfect and up for polishing; they need to be seriously reworked. Falling on fully-rotated jumps is better IMHO than two-footing them, besides what COP says...I've even heard some coaches say that.

I think two-footing comes from your weight being on the wrong side of your body during the jump, which is a basic technical issue. Whenever I two-foot jumps, it's usually because I haven't committed to it, and haven't put ALL of my weight over my right side. The more hesitant I am going into the jump, the more likely the landing is going to be two-footed.

[Isk8NYC]

Conquer your fear - use pads if you're afraid of injury. Two-footed landings are caused by mistakes in weight balance, position, rotation, or movement.


Here's some tips:


Wrong position - stand up straight in the jump and lift your free hip. This shift your weight. Focus on upper-body position; you should check the entry, pull together in the jump, then check out the landing.


Landing foot - REACH for the ice with your landing foot - toe-to-edge transition. If you try to land just on the edge, it won't be controlled and you're less likely to hold the edge.


Free foot - land with the free foot/leg in front, then SWEEP it to the back. This should push you onto a back outside edge. There's debate whether you bring the foot around or through, but just get comfortable with the sweep that checks out the landing. (That's a good thing to practice off ice.)


Knees - Your knees should already be bent, but the landing leg knee has to deepen the bend in order to hold the landing edge.


There's lots of other tips, but try these for starters.

[stardust skies]

I disagree that you should use padding to overcome fear. The only time padding use is warranted is if you are already injured in an area (or have a really deep bruise) and don't want to irritate it further- then pad the area until the injury is healed, and start fresh with no injury and no padding. But if you use padding to overcome fear, then you will never get RID of the fear, you will simply be covering it- quite literally, too. That'll have your mind play tricks on you, and if/when you test and compete, you won't be able to do the jump without the padding because you will be afraid, and your mind will have formed a dependency to the security blanket you've created for yourself with the pads. Even if you don't plan to test or compete, though, this is clearly a sport everyone falls and gets hurt in, it's better to just accept it and go about your bussiness. Just my opinion.

As far as two footed landings, I agree with everyone, it means you haven't commited to the jump and have your weight on the wrong side of your body. It could also mean your jumps are underotated. This is most likely caused by you not switching your weight to the other side though, so really, it's all related. Practice backspins a lot, get the feeling of the snap. It should help with your issues. Also make sure your arm positions/movements are correct, and that your check and landing positions are very strong and secure.

I also agree that you cannot really consider that you "have" a jump, and are just needing to polish it, if you are landing them two-footed. Even if it's only half of them. It's not a question of polishing. It's a question of erroneous technique. You have no chance or potential of landing a jump that you are two footing. It's not a small thing that needs to be fixed, it is your entire jump. Go back to the basics, and go over your problems with a coach if possible.

[Shinn-Reika]

I guess I was a little quick to explain the situation. I've only been two footing in the past week, and it occurs mostly when I try two jumps in combination. I have noticed that I sometimes can get stuck in a poor technique when I start out in it. For example when I was learning the flip I couldn't land anything. I even picked up this bad habit of letting my skates click together in the air. Anyway I guess I can say that I've been confident in landing everything I know, I just don't know why.

do you mind elaborating on the check part of the jump? (I haven't had a coach for a while) . Also I only thought a backspin was neccesary for doubles/axel. I actually only began figuring out how to do them on thursday. I can see how neccesary the whipping is to cleanly land a jump.

and don't worry about me falling, I'm notorious for having very frequent spectacular falls and escaping them (relatively) unharmed. It's better to be held back by physical limitations than mental restraints, methinks.

[stardust skies]

Ohhhhhhh I see, Shinn Reika. Then that's a totally different issue- you used to land them clean, and now you're two footing? That's odd, I don't think I've ever heard of that before. I've heard of people losing a jump altogether, but not randomly starting to two-foot. Do you have ANY idea what might have happened to get you to start doing that? A particularly bad fall? Learning a new element? Reading on here or hearing a new piece of advice you hadn't thought of before and trying to apply it? Any and all of these things can get you to have altered one little thing that can throw you off. Did you ever land your combos clean before this new problem? Or is that when it started? That could be the issue. If you are particularly having trouble when it comes to combos, I would suggest going back to jumps individually, and then once they're nice and clean, figuring out what you do differently when you go into combos- odds are that you are thinking about the SECOND jump as you are doing the FIRST jump, and thus rushing your timing, which will definitely throw off your entire first jump. I'd maybe look into that.

I guess it's true that a backspin is only "needed" for doubles and up....but I think they really benefit you in ALL full rotation jumps, even singles. Especially for the loop, flip and lutz...you really wanna think about getting over to the other side, so I think it helps, especially if you've hit a rought patch with your jumps to begin with and need a little refresher of the feeling you need.

As far as checking...you don't want to be swinging into your jumps. You want to check ALL entry three turns and mohawks so you have a good straight entry into the air (doing the Preliminary 3-turn pattern on the blue line really helps you to learn how to STRONGLY check your jump entries, if you don't practice those already). This is key to being in the right position to land on one foot. Also, when you are landing, you want to make sure that you are straight, with a deeply bent knee. Your arms should be to your side- but a little bit forward, and just slightly higher than hip height- not higher. If they are too far back or too high up, they'll throw you off balance.
Practice gliding backwards in the landing position. You want to glide STRAIGHT back. That's a good check. If you're curving, you're not checking your right shoulder back enough (right shoulder because the left foot is lifted...that's checking...evening out your body so it stays straight despite a curving action). This is the position you'll want to hit when you're landing your jumps.

Hope some of this helps. :)

[Skate@Delaware]

I disagree that you should use padding to overcome fear. The only time padding use is warranted is if you are already injured in an area (or have a really deep bruise) and don't want to irritate it further- then pad the area until the injury is healed, and start fresh with no injury and no padding. But if you use padding to overcome fear, then you will never get RID of the fear, you will simply be covering it- quite literally, too. That'll have your mind play tricks on you, and if/when you test and compete, you won't be able to do the jump without the padding because you will be afraid, and your mind will have formed a dependency to the security blanket you've created for yourself with the pads. Even if you don't plan to test or compete, though, this is clearly a sport everyone falls and gets hurt in, it's better to just accept it and go about your bussiness. Just my opinion.

I disagree. I'm one that has successfully used padding as a tool to help overcome fear. As one of the biggest chickens in my class, I wouldn't jump away from the wall. My biggest accomplishment wasn't until I got my padding. Then I was able to move away from the wall. Once I fell, with my padding on, and realizing it helped keep me from major damage, my moves got bigger and bolder. After a while, the pads just got in the way. I now jump without them, although I might wear them when learning a new jump and will be buying a new tailbone pad soon. Without the pads, I would still be hugging the wall and not jumping. I fall now without the pads on-no big deal.

[Shinn-Reika]

okay thankyou

[Anita18]

I disagree. I'm one that has successfully used padding as a tool to help overcome fear. As one of the biggest chickens in my class, I wouldn't jump away from the wall.
Funny, I learned to get away from the wall after the third time I fell against it and jammed my finger. :P Seriously hurt. Was fun explaining THAT to my piano teacher that week...

I've never skated against the wall since. From my experience, it hurts less to just fall out on the ice than hitting the boards with a leg/hand/arm. In addition, most people have a tendency to lean towards the boards when skating close to them, and that's definitely not what you want.

I've also never had a problem with only being able to do an element in one area of the ice. I don't know, I just don't have a pattern. It probably drives the other skaters crazy, but I can do anything almost anywhere, LOL.

But I'm still a chicken. Scared to trip over my toepick, and I compensate for it by straightening my back on crossovers, spirals, and sitspins. It's good for aesthetically pleasing spirals, but not good for crossovers or sitspins, LOL...

I agree that you have to think about one jump at a time when doing combos. I have yet to successfully land a loop in combination, but I can do them fine in isolation. *sigh*

[Casey]

Well since the discussion has turned to falling and padding...

I have to agree with stardust - I've never worn pads, and the only times I've thought they might be a good idea is when some spot is really sore because I've fallen on it 3 times within the past few days.

When I fall now, it's no big deal. I've gotten so used to it that it's more like "whoops my legs aren't working out right now, time to set yourself down on the ice, nice and easy now..." than falling. :P My worst falls were when I first started to skate - they've just gotten progressively easier to handle. I think that if I'd worn pads along the way, that would have been a much slower process, and I'd probably learn to fall on the padded areas because it wouldn't hurt, which are exactly the places I wouldn't want to fall on without pads.

Try street skating - pavement hurts! Ice doesn't if you fall properly. I really don't understand why people are so afraid of falling on ice, but walk down the street every day where falling hurts a lot more without any issue. :P

Seriously though, I do understand why some people wear pads, who have areas that are really sensitive to injury or whatnot - but they're not for me!

[*IceDancer1419*]

I don't know about pads... I think both sides have some pretty convincing arguments! ;)

Just have ot agree with Casey that in general, falling is no biggie for me anymore... it's like I've fallen so much I've become immune to the pain ;) Except for one particularly nasty fall I had a couple of weeks ago, I was spiraling and I fell SMACK down on my right knee, and proceeded to keep falling on that knee for the next week. It still hurts. lol. It got immensely swollen. I'm pondering putting a pad on that one so I don't keep reinjuring it, and also because even the lightest fall on that knee HURTS and I get afraid (I won't be when it's healed, though) of falling on it. sigh.

And... according to my coach, falling on ice should hurt a LOT less because you slide (most times... not on that spiral fall I talked about above though!) and that takes away some of the impact. I can fall on ice no problem... but falling on my hardwood floor after spinning in socks (I'm a dork! :D ) hurts a LOT. So, yeah. The other day i fell and went sliding and it didn't hurt at ALL (on the ice).

[Isk8NYC]

A backspin is useful for all jumps, but most people don't learn the back spin until they've started landing their singles. By that time, they've usually mastered a basic scratch spin and maybe a sit or camel, so they've developed spinning ability and are ready to move onto the opposite foot back spin.

Since you seem to be struggling with combination jumps, I would think that your problem is coming from not staying in the "ready" position when you land the first jump. You have to land with your free foot in front, then be ready to pick in (as for a toe loop) or pull up (as for a loop) into the second jump. Practice landing the first jump in the "ready" position and h-o-l-d the landing that way.

"Checking" a jump mainly refers to the arm and shoulder positions. Once you've mastered a jump, you can mess with the positions, but beginners should really try to focus on correct position. Here's what I teach for counter-clockwise jumps:


The pre-jump check is with your left arm in front of you and your right arm straight behind you. Think of a seesaw or teeter-totter - the arms are straight and parallel to the ice.

When you jump, your right arm comes around to the front. Some people say to pull it in, but I use "bring it around" to meet the left one. (Personal preference.)

If you're landing the first jump in a sequence, go back to the entry check above. You need to be ready to jump again.

If you're landing the last jump in a sequence, you'll check out the jump. When landing, bring your right arm to the rear again. As you bring the left foot through/around, the left arm has to stay in front, but it should be more across your body to counter the outside landing edge. (If you bend your left elbow, you should be able to touch your right shoulder.)

The other possibility with your combo problem is body position: you have to stay straight without breaking at the waist for the second jump. Think about that next time you practice - maybe posture is doing you in.

Good luck.

[Mrs Redboots]

Funny, I learned to get away from the wall after the third time I fell against it and jammed my finger. :P Seriously hurt. Was fun explaining THAT to my piano teacher that week...I wish someone would explain to Mr Redboots that if he spins near the wall (which he does) and if his spin travels (which it usually does), he is liable to spin right into the plexiglass (which he has!). You would have thought he'd learn, but no.....

I find it can be very useful working on turns, as it keeps my body aligned. I don't skate holding on to the wall, you understand, but facing it - gets my body in the right place do to (say) a Mohawk or inside 3 properly. Wish I could retain the feeling when facing the other way!

[samba]

I wish someone would explain to Mr Redboots that if he spins near the wall (which he does) and if his spin travels (which it usually does), he is liable to spin right into the plexiglass (which he has!). You would have thought he'd learn, but no.....

:lol: Sounds like a sight to behold!!

[Mrs Redboots]

:lol: Sounds like a sight to behold!!It was! This was at Slough, and he spun straight into the barrier there, banging his nose on the Plexiglass. He was terribly disappointed that it didn't bleed..... I was more worried about his spectacles, since he didn't have his spare pair with him. Fortunately both were okay.

But he still spins far too near the barrier!

[samba]

:lol: Annabel I can always rely on you to make me laugh when I'm down, getting so nervous now about my first dance comp this week that I think I'm going to be sick.

[Mrs Redboots]

:lol: Annabel I can always rely on you to make me laugh when I'm down, getting so nervous now about my first dance comp this week that I think I'm going to be sick.Grace, there is so nothing to be nervous about - no more so than of free, anyway. Just as in free skating, you can't control what the other skaters are going to do (and knowing some of your opposition in that dance class, that is truer than a lot of people realise!), you can't control what the judges are going to think (not under the old system, anyway), so all you can do is go out there, skate as well as you're able on the day, and have fun! That makes you a winner in my book - and me, and anybody else out there.

Just wait until you see me on Thursday doing my Artistic. The requirement now is for "an exhibition-style routine" - well, that's about what I make of myself, an exhibition..... I even have pink hair..... And I shall probably come last, but so what? I don't care, as long as the audience enjoys it. They did in France, and they did on Sunday, so.....

[samba]

Thanks Annabel you are so right. I cant wait to see your artistic if its anything like the last one I saw you do it will be a blast, see you soon
Grace

[Raye]

Please send a picture of the pink hair. Best of luck to you on Thursday.

[NickiT]

Hey samba. Can I join in with feeling nervous about this week's competition? I skate tomorrow.....eeeek!!!

Nicki

[samba]

You most certainly can Nicki, glad someone else feels the same, we will be like two jellies on a plate!!
Look forward to seeing you, you wont miss me, my hair is rather red now.
Cheers
Grace

[NickiT]

You most certainly can Nicki, glad someone else feels the same, we will be like two jellies on a plate!!
Look forward to seeing you, you wont miss me, my hair is rather red now.
Cheers
Grace

Looking forward to seeing you Grace. Also looking forward to the minute I get off the ice after my programme! I skate for fun, I skate fun, I skate for fun.....so why are competitions so nerve-wracking???

Nicki

[Mrs Redboots]

Best of luck for tomorrow, everybody! Raye, you already saw my pink hair - and there are photos of us together after our Interp class to prove it!
http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/amsmyth_2000/detail?.dir=7b69&.dnm=3f3a.jpg&.src=ph
Anyway, be that as it may.... good luck, one and all, and to me, too!

[samba]

I will second that.
See you all tomorrow
Grace