Oberstdorf comp

[Debbie S]

Decided to start a thread for news, results, personal stories, etc. from the comp.

I'm not there, obviously, but there is a small article (with pics!) on the USFSA website: http://www.usfigureskating.org/event_story.asp?id=30176

Jazzpants, your coach is famous! (although he sort of is already, I guess) :)

Can't wait to hear the stories from the skaters when they return. I sure wish results were being posted.

[Casey]

Gosh, it sure annoys me when websites put up little thumbnail-sized images that you can't click on for a bigger version.

It does look like fun though, and Germany is beautiful.

[sk8joyful]

...........

[jazzpants]

Jazzpants, your coach is famous! (although he sort of is already, I guess) :)

Can't wait to hear the stories from the skaters when they return. I sure wish results were being posted.Oh, geez!!! Who in the competitive adult skating community doesn't know of my primary coach? :roll: :P :lol:

I would LOVE to hear how he did competing against starskate6.0 and Live To Skate too!!! Can't wait to find out the results!!! :P

[NoVa Sk8r]

Results are posted:
http://www.isufs.org/results/adult05/

[Casey]

1. Please complete both the subject and message fields. Press the back button, correct the problem and try again.
2. The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

Well that's great. I want it deleted. It used to work. The edit button does after all say "Edit/Delete Message" if you hold your mouse over it.

[flo]

Looks like it was a mini Adult Nationals. I was hoping for a greater international turn out so it would be repeated.

[manleywoman]

I agree Flo, though I don't think a lot of other federations are really organized for supporting their adults, so it's possible that there aren't a lot of adults in other countries who even can join clubs or know about competitions. Perhaps that's something that our adult community here in the US can do, is try to reach out to those adult skaters elsewhere.

[jp1andOnly]

I think a lot of people thought that this would be a very expensive trip for an INVITATIONAL event. For me, unless I was planning a trip to Europe, I will not be spending money just for an invitational event.

Maybe one day, when I plan that Europe trip, I'll stick it into my agenda.

I think there is also confusion on the fact some people still think it was adult worlds. It's just an ISU sanctioned event for adults..

[flo]

I wanted to go to be able to meet and compete with non-US skaters. I hope there was enough interest to hold it again, and have more international skaters attend. If there's not an international presence, I'm not as interested as I compete with other US skaters at AN.

[singerskates]

I agree Flo, though I don't think a lot of other federations are really organized for supporting their adults, so it's possible that there aren't a lot of adults in other countries who even can join clubs or know about competitions. Perhaps that's something that our adult community here in the US can do, is try to reach out to those adult skaters elsewhere.


Many of the clubs here in Canada don't know about adult events. It's we adults finding out for ourselves and through the internet on here and at Competitive Adult Skaters skaters spread the word. The more skaters join CAS the more skaters of different countries will be at the next one.

also some of us are strapped from competing in our nationals financially and then there are the injuries. I would have loved to go if I were well and had the cash to go.

singerskate

[singerskates]

I think there is also confusion on the fact some people still think it was adult worlds. It's just an ISU sanctioned event for adults..

Yes, that's true it was an invitational event for adults. But isn't that how US Adult Nationals and Adult Canadians started out, an invitational event. It has to start that way because of the lack of countries who have adult skaters who can afford to compete globally. It will someday be the ISU Adult Worlds. Just watch.

singerskates

[jp1andOnly]

I'm not saying it won't. It probably will. Its just at this point in time I'm not interested in an invitational event. I could spend my money on something else or save it for another year

And adult Canadians IS an invitaitonal event. But compared to the amount I'd pay elsewhere, that one is cheap.

AN in the US IS invitational for many groups and qualification for some.

Yes, that's true it was an invitational event for adults. But isn't that how US Adult Nationals and Adult Canadians started out, an invitational event. It has to start that way because of the lack of countries who have adult skaters who can afford to compete globally. It will someday be the ISU Adult Worlds. Just watch.

singerskates

[singerskates]

And adult Canadians IS an invitaitonal event. But compared to the amount I'd pay elsewhere, that one is cheap.


Yes, it still is invitational only because of the low number of adult skaters in the provinces. As adult competitive skating becomes bigger in Canada we will have to qualify. It takes time. We have only had two competitions so far. You've had how many in the US?

Brigitte

[JulieN]

Looks like the ISU posted results!

Oberstdorf Results (http://www.isufs.org/results/adult05/)

ETA -- I guess someone already posted it -- sorry for the repeat! :P

[flo]

I don't mind that it's an open event like most of AN. I would just like to see more international competitors participate. This year was a pilot to see the level of interest. I don't know what numbers or what US/international mix they were aiming for, but I hope the international interest grows. It's too expensive a trip to compete with most (and smaller numbers) of the same people you competed with 2 months ago at AN.

[sk8er1964]

The CoP scoring is interesting to look at.

[jp1andOnly]

Yup,

Especially to the US Adult skaters who haven't used it or really haven't learned about it yet.

For us adult Canadians, we've already had 2 seminars on it, and Ive attended 2 other seminars because we WILL be using it this year at our national championships.

Let's just say, gone are the days of cross cuts/jump/armmovement/jump/spin/crosscuts/footwork section/spin, etc. In order to get the maximum number of points you have to work the system. My footwork section for this year is insanely difficult. In order to get a higher level I have chosen circular, in the opposite direction I usually skate, have 3 changes of direction in it, a variety of turns, change of speed (not stopping) and levels.

The transitions have also been changed from crosscuts and the occasional 3 turn or mohawk, to more difficult things.

Spins have to be held for 2 full rotations in the position. Camel spins must look like camel spins, and sit spins must sit (means your bottom should be the same height as your bent knee)

Cheated jumps are not welcome, and if they are cheated they better be a 1/4 turn cheat or less

Falling is the kiss of death. Trying to save a jump and not end up on your bottom is very important. So no throwing in the jumps that are not consistant.

The CoP scoring is interesting to look at.

[starskate6.0]

OK :D Im Back and Ill give you some info.

IT WAS FANTASTIC.... ;) I was very happy to compete in this amazing event. The town is a picture post card where ever you look the people could not have been better, The ISU was AMAZING to all of us.
Here is a few high points for me.

1. The trophies where wonderful. Big trophies, lots of smiles. :D
2. The awards where outstanding, spot lights, podium, on the ice, music for the awards, ( just like the Olympics), The head of the ISU did the Awards,
flags, you name it.
3. We got extra presents, skating plates, ties, special skate rages embroided with the Oberstdorf competition, All winners where anounced
( like it was worlds )
4. Even those who did not come in the first 3 places got a huge medel for participation that was so nice, and a towel or tie and plate.
5. Closing night Party, rented out the whole resturant upstairs at the rink, big spread of wonderfull food and deserts ( hot apple strudel), and a tradititional German Band.
6. An explination of how the ISU judgeing workes with personal scores and results for every skater to take home.
7. The rink was beautiful with flower boxes around the edges ( like worlds), they treated us like champions... :D
8. Got discounts for the cable caar to see the mountains and met the mayor of Oberstdorf....It was great..

Iv got Photos and Ill put them up as soon as i get a disk done. :D :D
The crowd was outstanding during my event... thankyou. :bow: :bow:

" Oh I got third". :D :D :D :D

One more thing, Its on again next year, or so they say and the age groupe will change 28-70... :D

[jazzpants]

" Oh I got third". :D :D :D :D

One more thing, Its on again next year, or so they say and the age groupe will change 28-70... :DCongrats to you, starskate6.0!!! :bow: :bow: :bow:

Now the question... did they mentioned whether it's still gonna be in Oberstdorf, Germany, or whether it's gonna be somewhere else? And if it's the latter, where? :D Thanks in advance...

(And yes, it IS interesting to see the CoP scores for the skaters!) ;)

[starskate6.0]

Yes ;) ;) The CoP marks work for me. I had some trouble on the jumps and spins but over all it was a lot of fun and i pulled up a lot on those skating and artistic marks, the crowds where fantastic :D
Lots of cow bells and cheers,,It was better than the Nationals.

As for Location, Almost everyone wanted it in Oberstdorf again, and its not confirmed yet but The head of the ISU said it will be put forward again for Oberstdorf and most people agree its a wondrful venue. :bow:

" Oh and i must say that Mark Pepin was a well deserved second in my event, :bow: Overall good skater and great music to boot, Its a great number, :bow:

[Debbie S]

Congratulations, starskate! Now I guess this means you'll have to change your screen name to starskateCoP. :)

Congrats to everyone who competed!

That's too bad it will be in Germany again. I'm sure it was a great location and all, but it would be nice for it to move around.

[singerskates]

Congratulations, starskate! Now I guess this means you'll have to change your screen name to starskateCoP. :)

Congrats to everyone who competed!

That's too bad it will be in Germany again. I'm sure it was a great location and all, but it would be nice for it to move around.

Deb, you beat me to it. "change your screen name to starskateCoP. ".

Hope I have the cash next year and I'm healthy. I've got relatives all over Germany that would love to see me and my skating. MOstly me.

Brigitte

Yummy Apfel Strudel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[coskater64]

I thought it was a really nice event, and I got to see Carolina Kostner at the rink. Mostly she was working on flowing edges and power, in fact a lot of the children were.

I liked the CoP, it is very helpful even though there was some variation between the days, it seems like saturday they eased up on the non-technical side of the marks. They did it (COP) w/ pencil and paper no computers, and the announced results for the entire group generally 5-10 minutes after the event was over. We all sat in a kiss and cry after we had skated and waited for the results together, it was fun and I enjoyed it.

Oberstdorf is a sleepy little town and not a lot of english was spoken but enough. I managed to order food and get taxi's easily, overall a good time.

la :D

[Figureskates]

Way to go Karen Guenette.....doing the SCLP proud!!

[sk8pics]

A few more things to add... I had a fantastic time! It was really amazing to be part of the first one. And even though there were a lot of U.S. skaters, there were also quite a few very good skaters from other countries. I saw some very strong German skaters, for example. In fact, the woman who won my group was German, from Berlin she told me, and I thought she was very good. Really nice, too! Actually, everyone was very nice and friendly. Lots of comaraderie. It was so much fun sitting together in the Kiss & Cry watching the others in the group skate.

As for me, i skated really well for me and I was happy, my friends were happy, the audience seemed to like my effort and several people told me I looked relaxed and like I was enjoying myself. Of course, the judges didn't like my jumps but that's not a huge surprise. Oh, and people threw stuff to me!!! :bow: That was really amazing. It was funny, too, because I picked some stuff up, and some of the people watching called me back but I couldn't see anything more on the ice, and someone yelled out, "Wait! There's more... it's coming!" And another little stuffed animal flew onto the ice. 8-) It was so cool.

And a special shout-out and thanks to Mrs. Redboots for the soap! :bow::bow:

I had the impression from Cinquanta's remarks that it will be in Oberstdorf again. While I like Oberstdorf, it is kind of a pain to get to. I was sick of hauling my luggage around trains by the time I got back. People everywhere I went helped me, though! And the people around Oberstdorf are so incredibly nice. I had a lot of fun chatting with them. Some of them had heard about the competition, but others had not and were astonished to hear about it, LOL!

If anyone has some specific questions, I will try to answer them.

Pat

[flo]

Congrats! I'm glad to hear the event was such a success. Spread the word and encourage folks to go!

[daisies]

Wow! Congrats to all who competed! I am so envious of you, but in a good way. :)

I wanted to go until I realized, around February, that I really couldn't afford it. As it turned out, I re-injured my back after AN and have been off the ice for four weeks now, so it's a good thing I didn't plan to go to O'Dorf or else I woulda been really bummed. LOL.

I can't wait to read more reports about the event! Congrats to all!

[Belusova]

How do we order the videos?

[pennybeagle]

The CoP scoring is interesting to look at.

Wow, no kidding. I was curious to see how this was going to turn out, and here are my general thoughts and rants...

I'm looking at the scores and thinking: Spins. Spins. Spins. Oh, and spirals and footwork.

I'm also thinking: something is not quite right with the scale of scores for the jumps. A loop-loop (base mark 1.0) is worth the same as an axel (base mark 0.8), and a sal-loop-toe (base mark 1.3) is worth the same as a double sal (base mark 1.3).

Also of note, looking at the masters score sheets... a level 1 combo spin with a change of foot has a base score of 2.5, and a double sal-double loop combo has a base score of 2.8. Now, I think I have a pretty good chance of getting a base score for a change foot combo spin, but I have no chance in heck of ever landing a double sal-double loop combo. At least, not in this lifetime.

Looking at the silver ladies score sheets...I am seeing "1A" and "A" as two different elements, with "1A" being worth 0.8 and "A" being worth 0.0 points. Eh?? I am going to go out on a limb and assume that "A" means an axel attempt, but that it was more than a quarter turn cheated. So attempting an axel gets you absolutely no points whatsoever, since it counts as a non-jump. You're better off doing a toe loop, which is worth 0.4 points. Or better yet, another lutz, since it's worth 0.6 points. Or, maybe you get the axel around but you two-foot the landing, so you get a -1 or -2 in the GOE score, and end up with basically the same amount of points as a toe loop or salchow. (Not to try to single anyone out, but see Shirley Black, who received 0.43 for an axel and 0.73 for a sal-loop).

Is it just me, or is there something wrong with this? Why is an axel only worth 0.2 more than a lutz? Did I punish my body for two years to learn this jump for virtually no gains in score? Call me old-fashioned, but it is TOUGH for an older body to learn an axel, and I want to see people rewarded for having the guts to try it. I'm not just talking about me--I'm saying this for all the men and women out there who have been working on this d*mn jump for years.

Now, don't get me wrong. I think I would do very well under CoP. I have a flying sit spin that, when it works, should qualify as a Level 2. I don't cheat my axel. I have decent speed and moves. More importantly, at the end of the day, I don't care how few points an axel or a double sal is worth, because I will continue working on them anyway because they're fun in a masochistic sort of way.

However! It's frustrating to think that I will be putting all kinds of time and money into learning these skills, and to see them get passed up in points with skills that I can do already, like a Level 1 camel-sit-change sit or a lutz-loop-loop. Shouldn't more challenging moves be rewarded? If someone in my silver competitive group lands an axel-loop, I think she should get more credit for that than my sal-loop-toe...currently, they're both worth 1.3.

Just MHO. Sorry for ranting. I hope that everyone had a great time.

[sk8pics]

Pennybeagle -- Yes, you are right in saying that a jump abbreviation with no number with it means the jump was downgraded. And downgrading from a single means you get no points at all. I do think the scale needs to be revised at the lower levels, although I haven't scrutinized the point differences the way you have. I would guess they would realize that and make adjustments as they go. On the one hand, that makes it tough to hit a moving target so to speak, but if something is not really scaled right it should be adjusted. I'm not crazy about a Code of Points type of judging system, but I do like the concrete feedback that you get.

Pat

[Lives to skate]

I can tell you, to those who did not attend, that this was great! Do not miss it for any reason next year! The Organizing committee did a fantastic job of making everyone feel special. The location was magical and beautifule and locals very friendly and accomdations reasonably price. Food was fantastic Nice gifts and even more gifts on the podium.

The trophies were big and the awards ceremoniy made you really feel like you had been in the World or International Competition. The CoP was a little difficult for some, but had you read the ISU website before hand you should have known what beats what in points and adjusted your routine accordingly.

They were very severe on cheated jumps and deductions for falls. (the kiss of death) Anyway , I skated a clean routine and was honored to have won first place in Gold Men's II.

I did notice for example that a single salchow, single toe loop, single loop did score the same as a double salchow, so it helped to level the playing field for those who are not strong JUMPERS, and they really rewarded intepretive and creativity in your program.

Original music and choreography beat othewise strong technical content everytime. WELL BALANCED is what they wanted to see. It weas very obvious fromthe marks. And Combo spins that were not held did not acheive as high of a total score as a well centered indvidual spins done extremely well.

Congratulations to all who attended and a big high five to Team USA who had the largest contingent of skaters.

[blue111moon]

Even from the point of view of one of the non-medalists, this event was fun. I met lots of old friends and made (I hope) many new ones. It was nice to meet the officials and Mr. Cinquanta as well. I think he was favorably impressed with adult skaters in general and he commented on the enthusiasm from the stands as well.

It was interesting to see how my program ranked in COP. I was pleased to see that the Tech Caller at least recognized all my elements as what I'd designated on the initial form and I got some credit for all of them except my spirals which I know weren't held long enough to count (I was behind the music and had to cut them short to get to the footwork on time). While it was disconcerting to see all those -1, -2 and -3 GOEs next to elements I thought I did pretty well, I was thrilled with some of the PC marks I got so it balanced out.

Considering that this was really the first time COP has been used with lower-level skaters, I thought things went pretty well.

While the US contingent was the largest, I think the Canadians and the French were competitng for the loudest cheerers. The Germans have some incredible skaters (Bettina!!!) and the New Zealanders get my vote for the friendliest and most fun people to be around. The Brits and the Italians were great people too; it seemed that everywhere I went in town we ran into them and ended up in long non-skating chats.

Oberstdorf is a lovely town, a mix of Aspen up-scale shops and Heidi-like ruralness (gotta love the cows travelling through town every day). The scenery was breath-taking. My only regret is that by the time we got the free time to take the gondola trip up Nebelhorn, it was raining too hard to go. :cry:

It was an incredible experience and I'm really glad I got to go.

[Kristin]

And adult Canadians IS an invitaitonal event. But compared to the amount I'd pay elsewhere, that one is cheap.



I definitely like to be thrifty when I am traveling out of town for invitational events. But at this point, if I am going to travel, I like for the surrounding area to be worth looking at or checking out (if possible). Sometimes comps can be in the back industrial areas of some big city and that can be a bit of a downer especially after having traveled to a glorious place like Lake Placid. So locale is a big draw for me now, invitational or not.

Kristin

[Mrs Redboots]

Hi, all, glad you got home safely! Wasn't it a blast! Didn't we have fun?! And didn't we skate great, even those of us who didn't!

I agree, the new judging system worked very well. It needs a few tweaks - there were a couple of odd results which were caused by the random dropping of marks with only 5 judges. Maybe they can adjust for this with a smaller panel. But the principle is sound, and results came very quickly - it will be very possible to implement it, even for smaller rinks & clubs.

Imagine, your name in lights, just like "proper" skaters... but in fact, we are proper skaters now! Cinquanta announced at the closing banquet that adult & masters skating was to be a recognised displine! Is that great, or what?

It was lovely to see so many entries from so many different countries (even if some were skating under the auspices of the USFSA because of difficulties in joining their own national associations), and to see skaters who had come all the way from Australia & New Zealand to compete. The Canadian crowd were fantastic, very vocal in support of their skaters, even those who were total strangers to one another at the start of the event.

The British (of course!) opened and closed the competition, and did extraordinarily well (and I was so proud of my husband and his Other Woman! They finished exactly where they'd expected to, but they were out there, they did it, and they got through it - and Other Woman finished a fantastic 4th place in Bronze Ladies III, which she was thrilled to the back teeth about!). We got loads of medals in dance - two golds & 2 silvers, I think - and a few more in free, including at least two more silvers and a rather unexpected bronze!

And, of course, the Americans did well, and it was great to meet so many old and new friends. The masters events were superb, and attracted a huge crowd.

I just hope that next time it's held, I'll be good enough to skate there! I tell you something, and that is that playing coach is infinitely more nerve-wracking than actually skating!

[daisies]

Is it just me, or is there something wrong with this? Why is an axel only worth 0.2 more than a lutz? Did I punish my body for two years to learn this jump for virtually no gains in score? ... Shouldn't more challenging moves be rewarded? If someone in my silver competitive group lands an axel-loop, I think she should get more credit for that than my sal-loop-toe...currently, they're both worth 1.3.

I understand what you're saying, but remember that those scores are base scores. It all depends on how you actually perform the element. A true lutz is really hard - I don't know a lot of people who don't change to an inside edge before takeoff, but those who do will be rewarded on grade of execution and those who don't will get deducted on GOE. So technically a (true) lutz is almost as difficult as an axel.

The program gets a cumulative score, so IMO it's not fair to compare one's axel-loop to another's sal-loop-toe. You're comparing a two-jump combo to a three-jump combo. You're only allowed three combos, and only one of them is allowed to have more than two jumps. So, the skater with the axel-loop is still allowed a combo with three jumps, and if they make it hard enough they'll get more than the sal-loop-toe. It's not like sal-loop-toe skater can go around seven times doing the same element; that's their one shot at bunch of points together.

It's apples & oranges! :)

[flo]

Actually if you look back at some of the previous USFSA characterizations of levels of difficulty, the axel was very often in the same group as the lutz.

I think this reinforces the concept of whatever you do, do well. If it's not reliable, leave it out. It's interesting that this type of program use to be rewarded quite well at the adult level. However I've noticed over the years a shift to rewarding poorer executed attempts at "higher" level skills over solid "lower" skills. It seems that the pendulum is swinging back, which I believe is a good thing for adults.

[Mrs Redboots]

Here is a photo of two Skating Forums members, BlueIIIMoon (left) and Skatepics, which I thought you all might like (sorry about the red-eye!):

http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/photos/Skatingforums01.jpg

[samba]

They certainly look as though they enjoyed themselves, lovely dresses too. I hope my dance ones turn up for Bracknell next week or I am going to have to wear my free skating dress.

[samba]

I just hope that next time it's held, I'll be good enough to skate there! I tell you something, and that is that playing coach is infinitely more nerve-wracking than actually skating!

I couldnt agree more Annabel, I would much rather be out there doing than watching someone I care about going through it.

[starskate6.0]

I did well under the new CoP marks and loved the time in Oberstdorf. ;)
I spoke some German and had a good time off the ice with a bunch of Germans I met who where there for a dancing forum on the weekend. ;)
They invited me to a pub after the event , 20 of us all speaking German and no english for 5 hours with more than a few beers added , it was a real batttle for me to keep up but I learned a lot more German... :lol:

[sk8pics]

Cool picture, Mrs. Redboots, thanks!

I will have to try to get a picture posted of the dress, since we were talking about custom dresses in another thread, and I think it turned out very well.

Ross- I also speak German and had a lot of fun talking to the locals. That's hard to follow a conversation between a lot of people, never mind the beer! Sounds like fun!

Pat

[blue111moon]

Well, at least that's one of the better pictures I've seen of myself.

That dress I'm wearing has to be almost twenty years old. I bought it off the rack in Lake Placid and love it because it always fits me no matter what shape my body is in at the moment. Mostly it's my back-up dress but I opted to wear it this time becuase the rink in Villard was too warm for my velvet one (darned hot flashes!). Then I got enough complements on it, that I stuck with it for Oberstdorf.

My coach found the protocols from my event fascinating and she was pleased with my description of what I did. Now we have to wait for the DVD to come to see how accurate I was. :D

Me, I'm happy I managed to remember - and do - some of the things I learned from the coaches I worked with there. Usually I forget instructions ten minutes after getting them.

[Lives to skate]

Pictures from France and Germany

http://www.icepav.com/images/Farewell_party_France1.JPG
http://www.icepav.com/images/rink_Obersdorf__Mountians_background_good.JPG
http://www.icepav.com/images/white_party_1.JPG

[Lives to skate]

More pictures from Burton
http://www.icepav.com/images/white_party_3.JPG
http://www.icepav.com/images/villiage_view_from_lift2.JPG
http://www.icepav.com/images/Team_USA_Draw_party_Germany.jpg
http://www.icepav.com/images/Burton__Dot_Gothic3.JPG

[sk8pics]

Mrs. Redboots -- I have a couple of pictures of the awards ceremony for the event your husband was in. If you want to PM me with your email address, I'll send them to you. They're not the best shots since I had only my little point-and-shoot camera, but what the heck.

Pat

[Skatewind]

How exciting! Thanks for sharing the photos & stories. Congratulations to all the adult competitors who participated in this event & helped to get it off the ground! I hope there will be many more.