Character of SP-Teri and Reidell boots

[diagetus]

Hello all. I'm new to the forum. I'm not out to start a war here, but I am interested in the characteristics of a SP-Teri and Riedell boot. I've read that the SP-Teri is a more boxy boot and the Riedell boot is more narrow. Have the members of this forum found this to be true? Has anyone tried both boots? If so, what kind of foot do you have and which boot did you prefer? If this subject has already come up, please forgive me. A point in the right direction would be great.

I'm also starting out with Double Star blades. Anyone tried them?

Thanks.

[dbny]

Try the same question at the On Ice - Skaters forum. There are lots of boot and blade discussions there.

[diagetus]

Thank you for the help dbny. I'll look in that forum.

[*IceDancer1419*]

I *had* Riedells and now have SP Teri... but I don't konw if you really want to talk to me about it, since I had relatively low-end Riedells that didn't fit me AT ALL.

You really have to watch for sizing with the Riedells, because they run BIG. I had a size 8.5 (my shoe size! :roll: ) and my teacher could fit FOUR fingers (count 'em, FOUR) behind my heel. as in, th elongest way 4 fingers go :roll: So... yeah, just one little hint. ;)

In general I really like my SP Teris. I think the toe is more boxy, and I htink it looks better, honestly. My old Riedells looked TOO long and thin... just looked a little... odd...
Have you had a chance to try both of them? (as in, the boots)

[luna_skater]

It sounds to me like your Riedells were way too big! The pair I had was 2 sizes smaller than my street shoe, and that's how all the dealers I know size Riedells. The Riedells I had were an old Silver Star model, so I can't really compare them to the current models.

I've heard the same about SP-Teri's being good for a wide foot (actually a wide ball, with narrow heel), and Riedells being good for a narrow foot. I would say my foot is on the narrow side, the Riedells worked well for me for a long time.

[Anita18]

Same for me here. I can't properly judge Riedells since the stock size that I got (from a sporting goods store) were waaay too big for my feet. I had to get something to fit in between my foot and the heel since the heel kept on coming up. The skates also looked very very narrow.

When I went to the SPTeri factory, I was properly fitted to a combination size boot 1.5 sizes smaller than the Riedells, I think. It was a while ago...But yes, I'd have to get a similar combination size in Riedells to properly compare the two. I really like my Teri boots - I've had them for about 3 years and they're still going strong! Obviously I don't skate as much as I'd like, but they haven't died yet! ;)

[techskater]

Don't go by what you READ about boots because everyone has differing opinions. I would highly suggest a master boot fitter and trying every stock brand there is - Harlick, SP Teri, Reidell, Jacksons, Gam, Risport.... to find what fits your foot best

[dbny]

It sounds to me like your Riedells were way too big! The pair I had was 2 sizes smaller than my street shoe, and that's how all the dealers I know size Riedells. The Riedells I had were an old Silver Star model, so I can't really compare them to the current models.


Riedell has since brought their sizes in closer to street shoe sizes. I think there's about a single size difference in the current models.

I agree with everyone who says you should see a master boot fitter.

[flippet]

I've heard the same about SP-Teri's being good for a wide foot (actually a wide ball, with narrow heel), and Riedells being good for a narrow foot.

I suppose this is true, for the most part. I started out in Riedells (older models, the 220, then the Silver Star), and they worked all right for me at the beginning levels. I do have an especially narrow heel, and I thought that the Riedells could have been more snug in that area. I felt that they broke down somewhat quickly, and when they did go, it felt like the heel area, especially, had compressed, or stretched, because the heels got really sloppy. I was in two-sizes-down-from-street-size, too.

I now have SPTeris, the Super-Deluxe (the actual boot is a few years old, though I'd only skated in them for about half their age--they sat on the shelf for a while before I bought them). I LOVE my SPTeris...although I could probably use a tiny bit more room in the ball area (I'll probably get a split width next time), the heel fits like a dream. I prefer a rock-solid boot, too. I believe my SPTeri sizing is about 1 1/2 sizes down from street size.

[Lurking Skater]

I started out in Reidells (it was one of the lower end models) and thought they fit fine in the ball of the foot, but my heel slipped constantly. I have SP Teris now, in the combination width, and they fit great. My SP Teris are actually a half size bigger than my Reidells were. My toes would have butted up against the front of the boot in the smaller size and that would have driven me insane.

I echo the others that recommended you go to a good fitter. Everyone's feet are unique and the best brand for you may be something completely different.

[diagetus]

Thank you for all your replies. I really appreciate it. I've gathered quite a bit of information from these posts. I am a bit flat footed and tried on the SP-Teri. Anyone one else have flat-feet? What are you wearing? It seemed a little tight around the arch and blade of my foot. I was wearing thin dress socks at the time. The fitter said that the boot should fit snug with only the slightest bit of room inbetween my toe and the toe of the boot. I was told that it is normal to have some soreness in the feet after your first few skating sessions. Eventually, you break them in I suppose. My feet were measured and traced, so I'm guessing the job was done right. However, if I continue to have pain in the arch after a month (twice a week), what should I do?

The fitter said something similar to the other posts about fitting the Reidells. Something about the boots needing to be about a full size smaller to make a proper fit.

I saw an ad in this ice skating magazine for a hinged boot made by Pro-flex. I was really really interested in the boot until I saw the price tag!!! My guess is the hinge gives a big advantage for skaters that need to do low spins. Has anyone tried this boot before?

IceDancer1419 - I haven't had a chance to try the Reidells for ice skating. I've been in the Reidell 117 boot before and had a comforable fit, but it was not for ice skating. I think ice skaters try tighter fits than roller-blade/skaters. The leather on the SP-Teri seemed less flexible than the Reidells 117's. That might be a good thing for ice skating though. I guess I'm going to find out. :)


Many thanks to all who replied.

Ok. This is off subject, but there's one more thing I'd like to confess. I'm sure some of you will not be happy with this comment...


I purchased some MK Double-Star blades, which are supposed to be a step above the Excel blades. When I asked about the difference in the blades, the fitter pointed to the pick area. " You see the top pick on this one - how it's bigger". I didn't say anything, but I thought to myself "How does a measly tooth at the tip of the boot make a difference in skating?" I mean really - the master pick might have been 1-2mm longer with a slightly different drag pick/tooth network. Come on now! Can anyone tell me what's going on in that extra millimeter that gives a skater more versatility in movement :?: :?:

Aside -As you can see, I don't like picks and I haven't even started practicing. I noticed the conspicuous pick with the rental skates. The severe loss of play around the toe and heel forces the skater to have almost flat feet for any movement. Why not just sand off everything except the second-to-last tooth and the master pick? Don't get me wrong, there's nothing like floating on ice and watching a graceful spin or jump, but is that gigantic pick network really necessary?

-Wood for the fire I guess.

[*IceDancer1419*]

Sadly i don't KNOW what my feet are. lol. My ankles "pronate" so if I step, my foot looks flat (I leave a nice flat footprint) but according to my coach I actually ahve high arches (when I'm not putting pressure on the foot)

I have an orthotic in there... not a custom, but an arch support to keep my knees from going in. The SP Teris are generally harder leather and harder to break in... it can be good to some extent to have the support, but for the more beginning levels it isn't always great because it can HURT to break them in... mine are lukcly not giving me much trouble ;)

I'd answer the toepick question but I really don't understand the "physics" of toepicks, so to speak ;)

[icedancer2]

As far as picks go, my understanding is that in figure skates, you need the bottom picks so you don't pitch forward over the front of your blade, especially when you are going backwards (boink!). I've seen skaters have problems with blades that were used for doing figures, where the bottom pick was shaved completely off and it was hard to find the balance. The rocker on a figure skate blade is further forward than a hockey blade, which seems to be more in the middle (therefore the weight of the skater in a hockey blade is more towards the middle of the foot, rather than towards the ball of the foot in a figure skate blade).

That being said, we had a young man at our rink who in the last two years switched from hockey to ice dance. He passed a lot of the first dances in the hockey skates, then got a pair of figure skates with blades where ALL of the picks had been shaved off and he passed more tests in those. Finally got Synchro blades and is currently working on pre-gold dances.

So, it can be done, I guess. Just depends on the individual.

[jenlyon60]

My coach bought a pair of hockey skates to wear sometimes for Learn to Skate classes. We had fun last friday watching him successfully skate portions of Novice MIF and the Austrian waltz in them.

His counters in Hockey skates were pretty dang respectable.

[dbny]

On a scratch spin, the bottom pick grazes the ice and you can see that in the tracing of a good scratch spin.

[flippet]

darn it...I had a HUGE reply for this, and the board gave me 'lip'. :evil: Well, here goes again.

The fitter said that the boot should fit snug with only the slightest bit of room inbetween my toe and the toe of the boot.

Yep. In fact, it's not uncommon for your toes to actually brush the end of the toe box with a good fit. Incentive to keep the toenails short, that's for sure! :)


I was told that it is normal to have some soreness in the feet after your first few skating sessions. Eventually, you break them in I suppose. My feet were measured and traced, so I'm guessing the job was done right. However, if I continue to have pain in the arch after a month (twice a week), what should I do?

Well, I don't have flat feet, so I can't speak to that. I'm guessing an orthotic insert may be called for--and some folks here have good experience with those. But there are other reasons that your arches may hurt--one of which is tying the laces too tight over the arch area. There's a bit of a 'science' to lacing up--the quick and dirty goes like this: snug at the toes, relax a bit over the arch, YANK those puppies at the ankle bend, then gradually relax towards the top, so that you can fit two fingers in the top edge of your boot. Also, when breaking them in, don't lace the last two hooks. Skate a few sessions, then hook one more, then a few more sessions, then hook the last one. (I still don't hook the last one on my SPTeris, but then, those really are concrete monsters! :D)

The fitter said something similar to the other posts about fitting the Reidells. Something about the boots needing to be about a full size smaller to make a proper fit.

Remember though, 'size' ain't nuthin but a number. Think of it like this--your dress size may be a perfect 10, but in one maker, you need a 12 or even 14, and in another, an 8 fits like a dream. The 'size' of the garment is the same across the board--it's just that what it's called is different. It's the same in boots--your shoe size may be a 7, but that same size in Riedell may be called 6, and in SPTeri, may be called 5.5. But it's really all the same.

Remember too, that if your feet aren't at least a little bit 'claustrophobic', :lol:, then you're probably in a boot that's too big. Tight without sheer agony is pretty much the way it should go. (And also remember that sore areas such as around the ankle bones can be punched out for comfort.)

I saw an ad in this ice skating magazine for a hinged boot made by Pro-flex. I was really really interested in the boot until I saw the price tag!!! My guess is the hinge gives a big advantage for skaters that need to do low spins. Has anyone tried this boot before?

I don't know if anyone here has actually tried it, but I think most of us didn't really like the idea--it's hard to see how a hinged boot can still give the same necessary, solid support that leather provides.

I haven't had a chance to try the Reidells for ice skating. I've been in the Reidell 117 boot before and had a comforable fit, but it was not for ice skating. I think ice skaters try tighter fits than roller-blade/skaters. The leather on the SP-Teri seemed less flexible than the Reidells 117's. That might be a good thing for ice skating though. I guess I'm going to find out. :)

The Riedell 117 is going to be a VERY soft, flexible boot. How tall are you, and what do you weigh--are you an adult? (It's important for proper boot-choosing.) For example, I started skating as an adult, 5'1", 130 lbs, and I began in the Riedell 220 (older model). That boot was shot within six months. I should have had the 320s. I then moved into a Silver Star (355), again older model, and that was broken down within the year. I was at about FS 2-3 by that time, skating 5-6 hours a week.

I wouldn't put you in a 117 unless you're extremely lightweight, a child, or your year-old, daily-wear tennis shoes look brand-new. 8O


You don't want something too firm to begin with, but you don't want something too soft, either, because A) you won't have the support you really need, and B) you'll break the skates down far too soon, and have to replace them. You'll also risk injury in broken-down boots.

I purchased some MK Double-Star blades, which are supposed to be a step above the Excel blades. When I asked about the difference in the blades, the fitter pointed to the pick area. " You see the top pick on this one - how it's bigger". I didn't say anything, but I thought to myself "How does a measly tooth at the tip of the boot make a difference in skating?" I mean really - the master pick might have been 1-2mm longer with a slightly different drag pick/tooth network. Come on now! Can anyone tell me what's going on in that extra millimeter that gives a skater more versatility in movement :?: :?:

Although I'm not too familiar with the blades you mention, I'd bet there's more between them than just a top pick size. Perhaps the steel is better in the next model up as well.

Picks are not for 'versatility in movement'--they're for jumping. You need bigger picks for bigger, more stable jumps. If you're a beginner, you aren't going to want a huge pick, because you'll spend more time killing yourself tripping over it than learning how to use it. But if you're taking lessons and planning on progressing, then you may want a slightly bigger pick, so that you won't outgrow its usefulness too soon. I'm guessing you're a brand-new beginner? In choosing a blade, you want to ask yourself what your goals are. Do you just want to skate forwards in a circle with the kids twice a year? Then get a 'baby pick' blade. But if you're taking lessons, do the slight 'upgrade' now, without going overboard. Also, if it's better steel, it will hold a sharpening better and longer.

Aside -As you can see, I don't like picks and I haven't even started practicing. I noticed the conspicuous pick with the rental skates.

What rental skates were you using??? I've never seen a rental skate with anything but a 'baby pick', or maybe the next level up, if you're lucky. Even then, it's usually useless, because it's been sharpened so crappily that the bottom pick has been shaved off.

The severe loss of play around the toe and heel forces the skater to have almost flat feet for any movement.

I'm 99% positive that it wasn't the pick causing 'loss of play' in your rentals. Instead, I'm betting that the rocker, or curve, in the bottom of the blade had been sharpened completely flat, causing your problems. Most rental skates are awful, and sharpened by people who have no idea what they're doing, or simply don't care.


Why not just sand off everything except the second-to-last tooth and the master pick? Don't get me wrong, there's nothing like floating on ice and watching a graceful spin or jump, but is that gigantic pick network really necessary?

:lol: :lol: :lol: As you progress, you'll learn why the pick is necessary. Trust me, it really is. :lol:

[diagetus]

I am amazed at the prompt replies to the latest post. I read them all, and everyone was informative. Thanks again.

IceDancer1419 - Sadly i don't KNOW what my feet are. lol. My ankles "pronate" so if I step, my foot looks flat (I leave a nice flat footprint) but according to my coach I actually have high arches (when I'm not putting pressure on the foot)


Okaaay, you're just wierd. That's all that is.---Just kidding. :D The fitter diagnosed me with the same thing. :cry: However, I don't think I have high arches when my feet are at rest. As I understand it, the pronation, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. Soccer players and martial artists probably use supination and pronation all the time. It's just when your foot is inclined that way permanently that it becomes a fitting problem.

Fun facts to know and tell - Scientists believe arches allowed ancient man to climb trees easily. So I guess there was a practical use for them at one time.


icedancer2 - Interesting info on blades and balance. Did they shave off the picks for the hockey guy as a way to wean him off of the hockey boot and blade?

jenlyon60 - I would like to see that myself. I wonder what figure skating looks like in hockey boots?! What are counters?

dbny - yes, I've heard of these scratch spins... Next time I'll look on the ice to see the scratch. Well, maybe I'll wait for the ~Zambeezee to clean up first and then find someone doing scratch spins. I'm guessing the ideal trace is a perfect circle right?


flippet - Yep. In fact, it's not uncommon for your toes to actually brush the end of the toe box with a good fit. Incentive to keep the
toenails short, that's for sure!

That's reassuring because the boots I have are definitely a tight fit. When I was trying to fit my foot into the boot, I felt like one of the step-sisters in Disney's "Cinderella" fumbling to fit their feet into a tiny slipper. The fitter was a lady. She was trying to give me the best treatment by putting the boots on for me, but it requires strength. After a few seconds of her efforts I couldn't bear it any longer and just started struggling with the boots myself. I know she meant well though...



The Riedell 117 is going to be a VERY soft, flexible boot. How tall are you, and what do you weigh--are you an adult? (It's important for proper boot-choosing.)

Yes, I agree. The SPTeri is closer to a ski boot in comparison to a Reidell 117, which feels almost like a soft leather dress shoe. I'm close to 5'10 and weigh around 130-135. I would like to think of myself as an adult, though I fall short of the mark at times. :)


For example, I started skating as an adult, 5'1", 130 lbs, and I began in the Riedell 220 (older model). That boot was shot within six months. I should have had the 320s. I then moved into a Silver Star (355), again older model, and that was broken down within the year.

Yeesh. No kidding? It's good to hear about your experience because we are about the same weight.



I was at about FS 2-3 by that time, skating 5-6 hours a week.

I'm afraid I don't know what FS 2-3 means. Perhaps it's your skill level?


I wouldn't put you in a 117 unless you're extremely lightweight, a child, or your year-old, daily-wear tennis shoes look brand-new.

Haha. I can assure you that is not the case.


Picks are not for 'versatility in movement'--they're for jumping. You need bigger picks for bigger, more stable jumps.

Interesting. I'll take your word for it, but it seems to me that the more aggressive picks that protrude out and have more teeth would prevent the skater from ever leaving the ice on takeoff. I can see how the pick would stop movement, but wouldn't they also lock onto the ice on takeoff, thereby impairing the skate from pulling out of the ice?


Although I'm not too familiar with the blades you mention, I'd bet there's more between them than just a top pick size. Perhaps the steel is better in the next model up as well.

Yeah, the fitter might have said a few more things about the blade. In my amazement, the other explanations kind of went in one ear and out the other. I just couldn't believe that a microscopically larger toe pick was one of the key high-end features of the blade.


What rental skates were you using???

I'm not sure what kind of rentals they were. They had a beige appearence "brownies" and the material was like a suedo-leather; very plastic. I didn't even see a hollow on the bottom of the blade. It was flat. There probably was a baby pick on the rental skates.(To me, it felt like a giant ginsu knife sitting on the front of my blade.) I've always been sensitive about my feet. They say that when you walk, your carrying toe almost touches the ground just before your heel connects. That's why you can be walking and stub your toe on a slightly elevated crack on the sidewalk. I was so tired of lifting the tips of my feet after 30mins and towards the end of the skate session the pick started to catch the ice more often.

I've never seen a rental skate with anything but a 'baby pick', or maybe the next level up, if you're lucky. Even then, it's usually useless, because it's been sharpened so crappily that the bottom pick has been shaved off.

I had no idea that rentals were poorly maintained! I'm glad I invested in personal skates.

[Anita18]

Next time I'll look on the ice to see the scratch. Well, maybe I'll wait for the ~Zambeezee to clean up first and then find someone doing scratch spins. I'm guessing the ideal trace is a perfect circle right?
Yes, a tight circle, but it doesn't have to be a perfectly centered spin for you to see how the toepick scratches the ice slightly. You can even hear it, if the music isn't too loud...

When I was trying to fit my foot into the boot, I felt like one of the step-sisters in Disney's "Cinderella" fumbling to fit their feet into a tiny slipper. The fitter was a lady. She was trying to give me the best treatment by putting the boots on for me, but it requires strength. After a few seconds of her efforts I couldn't bear it any longer and just started struggling with the boots myself. I know she meant well though...
Oh, it does get easier the more you put your skates on, LOL. The leather will wear down as you skate and plus, they'll mold to your feet more once you break them in.

The SPTeri is closer to a ski boot in comparison to a Reidell 117, which feels almost like a soft leather dress shoe. I'm close to 5'10 and weigh around 130-135. I would like to think of myself as an adult, though I fall short of the mark at times. :)
Psh, an SPTeri is nothing compared to my experience in a rental ski boot. I will never ever EVER complain about wearing skates ever again after my first ski trip. My first day at the rink in my new SPTeris didn't even compare in terms of foot pain.

But yes, "soft leather dress shoe" is not what you want. They won't even give you support on deep edges, let alone jumps and spins.

I'm afraid I don't know what FS 2-3 means. Perhaps it's your skill level?
Yes, it's the ISI test system - means you have a salchow and toe loop, maybe a loop (?) and an upright scratch spin. Or something of that sort. All I know is that I have a smattering of skills around FS 3/4/5. :P

Interesting. I'll take your word for it, but it seems to me that the more aggressive picks that protrude out and have more teeth would prevent the skater from ever leaving the ice on takeoff. I can see how the pick would stop movement, but wouldn't they also lock onto the ice on takeoff, thereby impairing the skate from pulling out of the ice?
That is not the case, because the only time where a toepick will stop total momentum is when you're going forward, as you will learn very quickly when doing spirals. When you go on your toepicks on forward spirals, you will take a swift faceplant into the ice. When you go on your toepicks on backward spirals, you will slow down considerably, but won't completely stop unless you are ALL the way on your toepicks.

All of the pick jumps are done from a backwards entrance. Therefore, when the pick goes into the ice, it gives your picking foot a stable pivot on which to transfer your weight. You will not stop or slow down unless your skating foot is on the toepick. Missing the pick on a toe loop, flip, or lutz is very very scary thing, because the jump simply does not happen and all you can do is brace yourself for the disaster. :P

I just couldn't believe that a microscopically larger toe pick was one of the key high-end features of the blade.
Ever hear of the K-pick? It's basically an extra piece of metal welded onto the sides of the toepicks, featuring more serrations. Talk about overkill....that's not worth the extra money, I don't think. Lower level skaters might feel a difference in their jumps, but the technique of elite skaters is so good that the extra picking power isn't as pronounced.

I had no idea that rentals were poorly maintained! I'm glad I invested in personal skates.
I was telling the family here that I wanted to go skating, and they said that I could just use the rink's skates. I nearly fell over and was like, "Not on my life!" :lol:

[icedancer2]

icedancer2 - Interesting info on blades and balance. Did they shave off the picks for the hockey guy as a way to wean him off of the hockey boot and blade?



I think he bought a pair of used skates that had had all of the picks shaved off -- he saw this as a way to transition from the hockey blade. the picks really freaked him out at first.

There is another guy at our rink who is a good ice-dancer -- but he also can do all of the dances up through Golds in hockey skates, and he does it quite regularly. He says he feels more stable in them. It's just for fun of course.

[diagetus]

icedancer2 -

Well, now I know that some of the moves can be done without a pick. That's comforting, considering my distaste for toe picks.



Anita18 -
When you go on your toepicks on forward spirals, you will take a swift faceplant into the ice. When you go on your toepicks on backward spirals, you will slow down considerably, but won't completely stop unless you are ALL the way on your toepicks...All of the pick jumps are done from a backwards entrance.

Ok, now it's making more sense. I can visualize what you're saying. The forward movement rolls from the drag pick to the middle picks and master pick. You go from bad to worse if you pick stop while going forward. Your foot rolls forward from the momentum and since there is nothing left but more picks, (and your boot ) you fall. If you pick stop going backwards, you start at one of the middle picks and roll to the drag pick and into the blade. This allows you to glide out of a stop. After taking a second look at some of the picks on blades, I noticed the teeth have a taper to them, which probably prevents the pick from rooting itself in the ice.

Anita18 and Icedancer2, thank you for your replies. I'll probably be asking more questions in the future, since I'm a "newbie" at this stuff. Some of my questions may not be worth posting as a thread. Hopefully, it's ok to PM those who responded in this thread, but if not, just let me know. Thanks again.

[flippet]

Crap. The board ate my reply again, and I don't have time to respond again now.

Feel free to keep asking, that's how you learn.

I'll just say in short, that your idea of how the picks function as Anita mentioned above, is really not right. It has to do with weight placement, and impossibilities of ankle motion! Have someone demonstrate exactly what happens when you accidentally put weight on the picks in a forward glide, or a backward glide. I think you may be surprised!

[luna_skater]

icedancer2 -
Ok, now it's making more sense. I can visualize what you're saying. The forward movement rolls from the drag pick to the middle picks and master pick. You go from bad to worse if you pick stop while going forward. Your foot rolls forward from the momentum and since there is nothing left but more picks, (and your boot ) you fall. If you pick stop going backwards, you start at one of the middle picks and roll to the drag pick and into the blade. This allows you to glide out of a stop. After taking a second look at some of the picks on blades, I noticed the teeth have a taper to them, which probably prevents the pick from rooting itself in the ice.


There isn't really a rolling motion. If you are gliding forward and hit your pick, you are going to hit the one closest to the ice first--the bottom pick--and it's basically game over. :D You hit the pick, which stops the motion of your feet, but your body keeps going, and BANG. Wipe-out. If you're going backwards and dig your bottom pick in, you will drag to a stop.

[icedancer2]

There isn't really a rolling motion. If you are gliding forward and hit your pick, you are going to hit the one closest to the ice first--the bottom pick--and it's basically game over. :D You hit the pick, which stops the motion of your feet, but your body keeps going, and BANG. Wipe-out. If you're going backwards and dig your bottom pick in, you will drag to a stop.

EXACTLY!! You never actually SKATE on the picks in any way, shape or form!

Diagetus -- I wonder what you mean by a "pick-stop" in your previous post? Do you mean, that if you are gliding forward on one foot, then stick the picks of your opposite foot in to stop? I would think if you did that you would put yourself off-balance, and well, maybe not fall flat, but still it would be quite awkward!

Going backwards I can see where I have at times used my picks to stop when I have been in a "Bail-out" kind of situation, like where if you don't stop quickly, you might hit the wall or another skater. So that would be like: gliding backwards, reach behind with your foot and stick your picks in to stop (usually the "master pick" and the one below [although on dance blades there isn't much of a master pick but that is a whole 'nother story...]).

You might want to look at some pictures of blades on the internet -- I don't have time to post links right now, but just google John Wilson or MK Blade, or John Watts or Ultima and you will see all of the figure skate blade variations that are out there.

Mostly as a beginner skater I would recommend a good blade with kind of "normal" picks -- (Coronation Ace comes to mind -- that is a good, basic John Wilson blade) -- after learning to skate you shouldn't have much problems with the picks per se...

Good luck with your skating and have fun!!

[doubletoe]

Don't go by what you READ about boots because everyone has differing opinions. I would highly suggest a master boot fitter and trying every stock brand there is - Harlick, SP Teri, Reidell, Jacksons, Gam, Risport.... to find what fits your foot best


Ditto! Nobody's foot is the same as yours so you won't know until you try them on with the help of an experienced pro.

[diagetus]

luna_skater
If you are gliding forward and hit your pick, you are going to hit the one closest to the ice first--the bottom pick--and it's basically game over.

I see what you're saying.




icedancer2

Diagetus -- I wonder what you mean by a "pick-stop" in your previous post?

What?!! You've never heard that term before? I guess it's 'cause I made it up. :D From your reply, I think you understand what I'm saying. You described what I was trying to explain in terms of a forward stop and an immediate backwards stop using the pick. Yes, I've seen the experienced skaters using their blades to make more sophisticated stops like the T-Stop and Hockey Stop. There's some other wierd ones that I've seen, but I don't know their names.


You might want to look at some pictures of blades on the internet -- I don't have time to post links right now, but just google John Wilson or MK Blade, or John Watts or Ultima and you will see all of the figure skate blade variations that are out there.

I looked at the Wilson and MK blades on the net and quite frankly I didn't see much of a difference. It looked like the higher-end skates had meaner/larger looking picks. I couldn't see a difference in blade curvature and there were no detail shots of the underside, so I couldn't compare hollows. Maybe I need to see some more up close and personal. Once I meet some of the regulars at my rink (and they realize that I'm not crazy) I'll ask to see their blades.


Good luck with your skating and have fun!!

Thanks. :)


doubletoe

Ditto! Nobody's foot is the same as yours so you won't know until you try them on with the help of an experienced pro.

Hello, doubletoe. The shoe selection was fairly limited for my size. They only had Reidell and SP-Teri at the time. I guess I should ask them to order Risports, Harlicks, and Gam. My hypothesis is that they don't carry all those names because they don't have enough skaters doing business with their store. I'll be hard pressed to get them to bring in more boots, because I just purchased a pair. Perhaps if I had asked earlier, they might have gone the extra mile. doubletoe, how do you know if a fitter is a real pro? What kind of credentials should they have? I know my fitter has been doing this for quite a while. I assumed that was enough. Beyond that, I don't know what to look for.

[jenlyon60]

What?!! You've never heard that term before? I guess it's 'cause I made it up. :D From your reply, I think you understand what I'm saying. You described what I was trying to explain in terms of a forward stop and an immediate backwards stop using the pick. Yes, I've seen the experienced skaters using their blades to make more sophisticated stops like the T-Stop and Hockey Stop. There's some other wierd ones that I've seen, but I don't know their names.


The term "pick stop" seems to be more of a rollerblade term, or rather it's definitely not in the standard "figure skaters vocabulary" or the closest we have to one.

Snowplow stops, t-stops and 2-foot hockey stops are generally taught to skaters fairly early on. My recollection is that the snowplow stop was taught in ISI Alpha, the T-stop was taught in ISI Beta, and the hockey stop in either ISI Gamma or ISI Delta. I have no idea where any of these skills are taught in the USFS Basic Skills lesson structure, as the rink I originally learned to skate at used the ISI lesson structure.

Besides some differences in pick design, the higher end blades tend to be made of better quality materials (presumably to be more able to withstand take-offs and landings of multiple revolution jumps). There's also differences in the taper of the blade (there's both parabolic blades and dovetail blades...both of which require a fairly skilled sharpener to handle them without totally ruining the blade).

Dance and synchro blades tend to have very short heels (that don't stick very far past the heel of the skate boot, if at all). This minimizes the chance of stepping on the heel of the blade when doing the quick close footwork that's often seen in those disciplines. Some dance blades are thinner than "normal" freestyle blades also.

Hope this helps.

[diagetus]

jenlyon60

Hi Jenlyon60, thanks for replying.

Besides some differences in pick design, the higher end blades tend to be made of better quality materials (presumably to be more able to withstand take-offs and landings of multiple revolution jumps).


I'm hoping that you mean the metal is less likely to dull after doing higher level jumps. Heaven forbid a blade snapping or shattering due to a forceful jump. I've never heard of this happening, but who knows... If metal integrity is truly the issue, I wonder why some of the high-end blades are offered in 14k gold? Gold has always been considered a softer metal (especially in its purest forms).



Dance and synchro blades tend to have very short heels (that don't stick very far past the heel of the skate boot, if at all). This minimizes the chance of stepping on the heel of the blade when doing the quick close footwork that's often seen in those disciplines.


Yes, after a really hard look at the "synchro" blades I did notice that the heels were shorter. For example, the MK Vision heel was shorter than my MK Double Star. I definitely like the blade anatomy on that Vision skate, but I don't see myself doing Synchro. I also like the build of the dance blades. I'm predicting that I'll have a preference for dance or synchro blades instead of the freestyle blades. The ideal blade for me would probably be a figure blade, but I guess they don't make those anymore. Much like the pick, I really didn't like the limited mobilitiy in the heel. Rotating my foot up at the ankle caused the heel to grind into the ice. I've been watching the more experienced skaters do spins and spirals and I've never seen them place their weight on the heel of the blade. It's always in the tip or center of the blade. I could understand it playing a part in support when the upper body leans way back for artistic expression. I just don't see why the heel needs to come to a sharp point. When you rotate your foot upwards, you should still be able to glide. In my humble opinion, the heel just needs to be rounded at the end (not necessarily shortened). I saw a male freestyle skater in one of those skate books wearing some special skates that have the rounded edge. They took a picture of him with both toes up in the air. So I know it can be done.

I know I haven't passed an ISI test yet, but I sound like a level 7 complainer. lol I really do enjoy skating and I hope my posts aren't too negative.

[luna_skater]

The heel length will come in handy when you are doing jumps. The longer the blade, the more lee-way you will have if you need to "save" a jump. I'm jumping in synchro blades, and if my weight is too far back on my landing, I have a smaller room for error because of the reduced length of my blade.

My suggestion? Just skate! You will find out what you like and disklike from experience. I've been skating for almost 20 years...I know what kind of blades I like, how stiff I like my boots, how high I like my boots, how tight I like them, what kind of boot heel I like, etc. No amount of research or understanding of the mechanics of skates can replace just skating in my skates, and finding out how secure I feel in them. Good luck!

[flippet]

I'm hoping that you mean the metal is less likely to dull after doing higher level jumps. Heaven forbid a blade snapping or shattering due to a forceful jump. I've never heard of this happening, but who knows... If metal integrity is truly the issue, I wonder why some of the high-end blades are offered in 14k gold? Gold has always been considered a softer metal (especially in its purest forms).

Nope--she means a blade snapping. It does happen, but usually to very elite skaters (and most often the heavier, taller guys) that are giving their blades a serious pounding for hours every day. (I can't remember exactly what the amount of force is in a triple or quad jump landing, but the amount of weight the blades (and body) are subjected to is just crazy.) Just in the last couple of years, someone snapped a blade at Nationals...I can't remember who. But they had to either borrow someone else's skate, or they got a brand-new blade, I don't remember which---either option is just downright frightening at that level at the last minute like that!

Blades are never 100% gold. Some are just coated in it. Besides, the part you sharpen absolutely has to be steel. If you look at the side of your blades, you'll see that there's a narrow, unpolished strip at the very bottom. That's where it will take a sharpening, and once that strip is sharpened away, there's no more life left in the blade--the other steel won't hold a sharp edge. (But most people never get to that point--they upgrade their blades long before they're 'used up'. Unless you get a royally crappy sharpening that takes far too much metal off at once.)






Yes, after a really hard look at the "synchro" blades I did notice that the heels were shorter. For example, the MK Vision heel was shorter than my MK Double Star.


I use MK Visions for freestyle, and I adore them. I had MK Professionals before that, and while the Pros are a great beginning free blade, I really appreciate the smaller rocker on the Visions....I need that for spinning. Man, are they fast, too! (The first time I tried them out, I thought I was going to kill myself on the larger picks though--but it didn't take long to adjust.)


As for the heel thing--it's so hard to explain why one really does 'need' a tail on a blade, even though you don't 'skate' on it. My best advice is simply to get out there and skate, get some experience under your belt. Many, many things will become much clearer that way.



...I see luna and I had the same thought at the same time.... :)

[Anita18]

Yes, after a really hard look at the "synchro" blades I did notice that the heels were shorter.
The shorter heel isn't really noticeable on an isolated blade, but once you see the entire boot-and-blade setup, you'll be able to spot an ice dancer from a freestyler in 2 seconds. The heels are definitely shorter on the ice dance blade.

Much like the pick, I really didn't like the limited mobilitiy in the heel. Rotating my foot up at the ankle caused the heel to grind into the ice. I've been watching the more experienced skaters do spins and spirals and I've never seen them place their weight on the heel of the blade. It's always in the tip or center of the blade. I could understand it playing a part in support when the upper body leans way back for artistic expression. I just don't see why the heel needs to come to a sharp point. When you rotate your foot upwards, you should still be able to glide. In my humble opinion, the heel just needs to be rounded at the end (not necessarily shortened). I saw a male freestyle skater in one of those skate books wearing some special skates that have the rounded edge.
It helps with stability. I've definitely leaned way too far back and didn't fall because my blades had that heel. Of course, most elite skaters won't do that, but I've seen pictures of spread eagles done riiiight up to the edge of that heel point.

Michael Weiss also has the "Freedom Blades," where the blade comes right up to the heel. All he does differently is that he's able to do silly tricks with them. :P

Yeah, I suggest you just skate and see what it's like. Most of the time, our sitting here and analyzing every little point about our equipment doesn't help us become better skaters. :)

[icedancer2]

Yeah, I suggest you just skate and see what it's like. Most of the time, our sitting here and analyzing every little point about our equipment doesn't help us become better skaters. :)

Yes, you should just skate and have fun!

BUT some of us are definitely obsessed about the blade thing. I notice that it's about my favorite topic on these message boards and amongst my skating buddies.

[icedancer2]

Rotating my foot up at the ankle caused the heel to grind into the ice. I've been watching the more experienced skaters do spins and spirals and I've never seen them place their weight on the heel of the blade. It's always in the tip or center of the blade. I could understand it playing a part in support when the upper body leans way back for artistic expression. I just don't see why the heel needs to come to a sharp point. When you rotate your foot upwards, you should still be able to glide. In my humble opinion, the heel just needs to be rounded at the end (not necessarily shortened). I saw a male freestyle skater in one of those skate books wearing some special skates that have the rounded edge. They took a picture of him with both toes up in the air. So I know it can be done.



Okay, I can't leave this blade thing alone (obsessed) -- the blade doesn't come to a sharp point, it is squared off. Don't skate on the back of your blade and don't rotate your foot upwards! (Why would you need to do that, anyways?? ;) )

And as far as those "Freedom Blades" that Michael Weiss wears, I think those would be really bad for a beginning skater because if you rocked back at all (which we all will do at times) you will just roll over the back of the blade (which still has edges on it) and fall on your a**!!

Anyway, the back part of your blade, being squared off, should help you to stay upright if you happen to get onto the back part of the blade!!

You will notice that the elite skaters, even when they are "leaning back" the part of their body from the hips down is pretty much upright, with a deep bend at the ankles, knees and hips to keep everything in line and over their blades. I wish I could demonstrate this to you in real life instead of trying to describe it over the internet!!

[diagetus]

luna_skater
My suggestion? Just skate!


flippet
My best advice is simply to get out there and skate, get some experience under your belt.

Anita18
Yeah, I suggest you just skate and see what it's like.

icedancer2
Yes, you should just skate and have fun!

I could be wrong, but it seems like there's some kind of pattern here.... :D Point taken. Skating is the key. I'll hit the ice, but first-



luna_skater
The heel length will come in handy when you are doing jumps. The longer the blade, the more lee-way you will have if you need to "save" a jump. I'm jumping in synchro blades, and if my weight is too far back on my landing, I have a smaller room for error because of the reduced length of my blade.

Yeah, I kind of guessed that might be a trade off, even though I've never skated on that kind of blade. Never the less, shorter length is very attractive to me. The synchro blades will have to wait though. For now, I'm going to practice with all-purpose blades for a year or two and see just how well-rounded the blades really are. Plus, this skating equipment costs a pretty penny when you add up the blades and boots. I'm not looking to spend anymore money anytime soon. I'm pretty tight when it comes to recreational spending. By the time I have spare cash for new equipment, I'm sure a year will have come and gone.


flippet
Blades are never 100% gold. Some are just coated in it. Besides, the part you sharpen absolutely has to be steel. If you look at the side of your blades, you'll see that there's a narrow, unpolished strip at the very bottom. That's where it will take a sharpening, and once that strip is sharpened away, there's no more life left in the blade--the other steel won't hold a sharp edge.

and

I use MK Visions for freestyle, and I adore them. I had MK Professionals before that, and while the Pros are a great beginning free blade, I really appreciate the smaller rocker on the Visions....I need that for spinning. Man, are they fast, too!

Interesting info. I guess you learn something new everyday. Now I will know when my blades have died. So the Visions feel faster? Hmm. Wonder why. I do want to try them out eventually. My guess is that I'll have a preference for the smaller rocker and shorter heel, but for now I'm trying to gain more experience on an all purpose blade.


Anita18
Michael Weiss also has the "Freedom Blades," where the blade comes right up to the heel. All he does differently is that he's able to do silly tricks with them.

Yeah, that name sounds real familiar. I think he's the one I'm thinking of -jet black hair, medium build. Right? Never seen anyone else on them.


icedancer2
You will notice that the elite skaters, even when they are "leaning back" the part of their body from the hips down is pretty much upright, with a deep bend at the ankles, knees and hips to keep everything in line and over their blades. I wish I could demonstrate this to you in real life instead of trying to describe it over the internet!!

Interesting. Yes, I'm more of a visual learner, so video and graphics help me out big time. I've viewed some of the posted videos on this forum and it's cool to see what level the other members are at. Just about everyone that replied in this thread seems like they could be a coach or pro, so I'm very curious to see how you all skate. Anyone in here a coach? I have a digicam that can record about 30secs of movement. Perhaps I'll post up some stuff when I get into some of the compulsory moves.

Thanks again for the in depth responses everyone. I do appreciate it.

[flippet]

Interesting info. I guess you learn something new everyday. Now I will know when my blades have died.

Well...you'll probably want or need to upgrade long before that. Also...if you get a bad sharpening or two that alters the rocker, they're also 'dead'. Find yourself a good, reliable sharpener (ask experienced figure skaters--because it doesn't matter as much to the hockey skaters), and try to stick with that person. Be very wary of a teenager behind the machine, unless they've been recommended to you.


So the Visions feel faster? Hmm. Wonder why.

Honestly, it was probably mostly the switch, and partially the smaller rocker--less blade touching ice, therefore less friction and drag. Also, I sharpen my own blades with a hand-held sharpener. My Visions have never seen a sharpening machine. It's possible that my old blades had had a not-so-good sharpening or two, and the rocker wasn't what it used to be.


Just about everyone that replied in this thread seems like they could be a coach or pro, so I'm very curious to see how you all skate.


Hee hee hee. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm only laughing because if you saw me skate now, you'd really think I must be crazy or something. I haven't skated more than once or twice in over three years, due to circumstances. I'm sure I could barely jump now, if I tried. I only got up to FS3 (that's FreeSkate level 3, in the ISI (Ice Skating Institute) method), which is where you start learning backspin, loop, and flip. Never really 'got' any of those (yet!). However, all the other adults that I've skated with tell me that I'm pretty good (only by comparison, I assure you!), but they also say that I have a way of explaining things that makes sense to a fellow adult. I can often explain things that I don't have the ability to fully demonstrate. Often in my group classes, when someone didn't 'get' what the coach was explaining, they'd look to me for translation/clarification. But yeah....match that with my skating, especially now, and it's pretty amusing. :lol:

[Casey]

Nope--she means a blade snapping. It does happen, but usually to very elite skaters (and most often the heavier, taller guys) that are giving their blades a serious pounding for hours every day. (I can't remember exactly what the amount of force is in a triple or quad jump landing, but the amount of weight the blades (and body) are subjected to is just crazy.) Just in the last couple of years, someone snapped a blade at Nationals...I can't remember who. But they had to either borrow someone else's skate, or they got a brand-new blade, I don't remember which---either option is just downright frightening at that level at the last minute like that!

Blades are never 100% gold. Some are just coated in it. Besides, the part you sharpen absolutely has to be steel. If you look at the side of your blades, you'll see that there's a narrow, unpolished strip at the very bottom. That's where it will take a sharpening, and once that strip is sharpened away, there's no more life left in the blade--the other steel won't hold a sharp edge. (But most people never get to that point--they upgrade their blades long before they're 'used up'. Unless you get a royally crappy sharpening that takes far too much metal off at once.)
Actually, from what I've read, assuming the blades have been sharpened properly and have the original rocker intact, the chrome surface can be filed down farther, and you can keep sharpening them. There's no difference between the steel at the bottom of the blade and that a few millimeters up - it's just the chrome (or gold) surfacing that's different.

I also believe I read somewhere that higher quality blades hold their edge longer, requiring less frequent sharpenings. I think this is true, because I skate almost every day, and have had my Gold Stars sharpened 4 times in 6 months, 3 times professionally and once myself with a hand sharpening stone.

My old skates had John Wilson Majestics (with a ruined rocker, to boot), and I would notice that they needed a sharpening after 2-3 weeks. I have a deeper hollow now, so that affects things too - I'm not really sure whether either blade with the same hollow would hold the sharpening any longer.

[diagetus]

flippet
Find yourself a good, reliable sharpener (ask experienced figure skaters--because it doesn't matter as much to the hockey skaters), and try to stick with that person. Be very wary of a teenager behind the machine, unless they've been recommended to you.

I'll make sure to watch out for that. The rink I'm at does share floor space with hockey players. I've heard enough about bad sharpening experiences that I'm going to look into the sharpener's history before I hand off my precious(pricey) blades. I do feel like it's a problematic loop for the youngsters trying to get a job. They can't get experience unless someone allows them to sharpen their blades and noone will hire if they don't have experience.

Also, I sharpen my own blades with a hand-held sharpener.

Maybe I should just learn to hand sharpen mine. I guess the only sharpener you can completely trust is yourself. Well, atleast once you get good at it. :roll:

Casey S
Actually, from what I've read, assuming the blades have been sharpened properly and have the original rocker intact, the chrome surface can be filed down farther, and you can keep sharpening them.

Useful information. I read about checking the hollow of a blade, but how do I check the rocker to make sure it's still intact? Do I trace the rocker on paper while the blade is still new? That's the only solution I could conjure up.

[Casey]

Maybe I should just learn to hand sharpen mine. I guess the only sharpener you can completely trust is yourself. Well, atleast once you get good at it. :roll:
Careful with that. I've heard that some of the devices you can buy that are supposed to make the job easy (i.e. the Pro-Filer) will make horror of your blades. I just got a little stone from a pro shop, and used it once so far, though I'll probably touch them up before I go skating again. That's the nice thing about hand-sharpening: a small touch-up can be done without the amount of grinding away that comes with getting them machine-sharpened. I still plan to have them professionally sharpened every so often anyways.

Useful information. I read about checking the hollow of a blade, but how do I check the rocker to make sure it's still intact? Do I trace the rocker on paper while the blade is still new? That's the only solution I could conjure up.
No idea here, and I don't think it's even identical across different blade models; but here's a best guess:

With exception of the front of the blade just before the toepicks, the chrome siding is ground down the exact same amount all along the edge. On my old blades, which have a damaged rocker, the width of the ground area is much thinner at the rocker than at the tail of the blade. I imagine they could probably be fixed by evening things up, but I'm not sure. Spinning is dead impossible on them - that's the dead giveaway - though other stuff like 3-turns are plenty easy.

[Anita18]

Useful information. I read about checking the hollow of a blade, but how do I check the rocker to make sure it's still intact? Do I trace the rocker on paper while the blade is still new? That's the only solution I could conjure up.
Yeah, that's basically how you do it. You can even see if the curve is smooth. My first sharpening was so bad (I went to the rink pro shop which was a bad idea) I could see how the blade straightened out by the toepick instead of coming to a nice curve. It was a REALLY bad job though, LOL.

[flippet]

I've heard that some of the devices you can buy that are supposed to make the job easy (i.e. the Pro-Filer) will make horror of your blades.


The Pro-Filer is what I use, and it's always been a dream for my blades--never even the slightest problem. If someone's had an issue with it, it probably depends on their skill or lack of it in using it. You have to know yourself--some people would never even dream of sharpening their own blades, feeling that it's better left to the professionals. Others are confident in their own sharpening skills. I could use a free stone if I wished--but I feel that the stone holder in the Pro-Filer simply makes it easier.

[aussieskater]

I don't know about sharpening my own blades (eeek!), but I do carry a small stone to smooth away really obvious burrs from our cruddy rink floor. (Yes, I do wear guards but the concrete is showing through the rubber matting as you get off - at every gate!)

One thing I was told by an experienced sharpener is that you can tell if the edges are even (inside vs outside) by holding the boot upside down and level with the heel towards you at eye level, and placing a coin or similar across the two edges. Any disparity between the edges translates as a coin which is not horizontal. You can use this trick right along the full length of the blade by moving the coin (pick it up and move it, don't just slide the coin along).

[Skate@Delaware]

This has been very informative! It also goes to show that we need to be as knowledgeable about our equipment as possible.

When I got fitted for my new boots, the person that fit me (unknown to me) didn't really know what she was doing and luckily, the boots fit close enough (although they are still a half-size too big I think). However, she was the person that mounted the blades and she screwed one up (which happened to be my landing foot). She later quit her job, and the rink closed for the summer, so I'm stuck with a mis-mounted blade and have to get it fixed elsewhere (of course at my own expense because the rink only has a 15-day window for fixing problems) :evil:

As far as blades go, I did get a better quality blade (Coronation Comet) which I love. You can tell the difference in the quality vs. the stock blade that comes with the boot. I didn't think there was that much difference in the toepick but between the rentals that I had started in, there is a big difference (in the rocker also). Edge quality is better, probably because these blades hold their sharpenings longer. I'm at a 1/2" hollow right now.

But the best thing to do is to get out and skate and get used to the toepick and boots and don't forget to keep you knees and ankles bent (I'm still working on that).

Terese

[Andie]

My Riedells have always been a bit 'slippy' in the heel and hardly ever feel snug enough there. I thought it was only my problem, but I see it's happened to other people. Weird. I've tried explaining the 'slippy heel' thing to my instructor but I don't think he gets what I mean. English is his second language(his first language Russian) and I'm not the best at verbally explaining myself.

In most tennis shoes I wear an 8.5 and my skates are 8 even. My feet are slightly narrow, especially at the ankles (most women's feet are narrower at the ankles anyway). Most of my street shoes are a bit loose at the ankles so it's no surprise that my skates are the same. I've never had SP-Teri's (the Riedells are my first "real" pair of skates, and only so far) so I can't comment on that.
When I got the skates, the girl at the store didn't even measure my feet. She just had me try on a few pairs and I had to use my judgment, even though I'd never worn stiff good quality skates before.

As for blades- I'm fortunate my instructor sharpens them. :D

[Cactus Bill]

Andie,

What really suprises me is that 95% of all figure skates are sold to women. If they can't get THAT right, on a stock boot, who are they building them for? I have the exact problem with my off-the-shelf Riedells (and still have the box which claims "Riedell Fits!") In fact we have the same (well...except for one minor ;) difference) size feet, even to the narrow heel and if they can't get it right for 95% of their market how about the other 5%? Of course not all of us can afford my solution (Custom Harlick boots) so there must be another solution.

[diagetus]

Casey S
That's the nice thing about hand-sharpening: a small touch-up can be done without the amount of grinding away that comes with getting them machine-sharpened. I still plan to have them professionally sharpened every so often anyways.

That's an intersting find. I read somewhere that a guy had calculated the average amount of steel that was shaved off for an individual sharpening session. I just wonder if there's a difference in finish or polish when you do it by hand versus the machine. This is something I'll have to check on when I try out the Pro-Filer.

Anita18
Yeah, that's basically how you do it. You can even see if the curve is smooth. My first sharpening was so bad (I went to the rink pro shop which was a bad idea) I could see how the blade straightened out by the toepick instead of coming to a nice curve. It was a REALLY bad job though, LOL.

Oh boy, it's stories like this that are making me VERY hesitant to get my blades machine sharpened. What is the rink pro shop? Is that just the sharpening service offered at the rink? I know exactly what you're saying as far as the curve being straighter right after the pick. -Not good.


flippet
If someone's had an issue with it [Pro-Filer], it probably depends on their skill or lack of it in using it. You have to know yourself--some people would never even dream of sharpening their own blades, feeling that it's better left to the professionals. Others are confident in their own sharpening skills.

Yes, I was thinking this in the back of my mind. I understand what you're saying, even though it's hard to put into words. You have to "know yourself" or what I call listening to yourself in order to gauge how you're sharpening the blade. Without that kind of focus it's going to be a crappy job.


aussieskater
One thing I was told by an experienced sharpener is that you can tell if the edges are even (inside vs outside) by holding the boot upside down and level with the heel towards you at eye level, and placing a coin or similar across the two edges. Any disparity between the edges translates as a coin which is not horizontal.

Yes, I read about this technique in some book. I think it was "Competitive Figure Skating A Parent's Guide" by Robert S. Ogilvie. It's a good book, and the coin technique should come in handy.

Skate@Delaware
But the best thing to do is to get out and skate and get used to the toepick and boots and don't forget to keep you knees and ankles bent (I'm still working on that).
Yes, I'm working on the bending also. It's extremely hard to bend at the ankles because the tougher leather boots aren't very flexible. That's why that Pro-flex boot looked neat. The ankle bending is a serious issue in my opinion. Here's how I see it: The inability to bend your ankles in that tight boot prevents your knee from moving over the foot. Since the hip is connected to the knee, the hip never centers over the skate and instead falls over the heel or even farther back. The upper body is connected to the hip so it also ends up over the heel. To compensate, the upper body can bend at the waist, but too much of that is probably considered bad form. When the skater tries to squat down and do a low spin, they just fall backwards because they can't get enough of their weight over the center of the skate. The extended leg helps the weighting, (kind of like "shoot-the-duck"), but it can't cure an inflexible boot. As I understand it, the hardness of the boot is for stability in higher level jumps and the slant in the boot is to assist the limited ankle mobility.

Andie
My Riedells have always been a bit 'slippy' in the heel and hardly ever feel snug enough there.

I know what you mean. I've worn Reidell 117's (a very soft boot) and I know they have heel slippage when I lace too loose. If the ankle support is broken down and there's bend lines going around your boot in that area, you'll probably get slippage. The other problem could be in sizing.


Cactus Bill
What really suprises me is that 95% of all figure skates are sold to women.

Well, what really surprises me is that percentage. Is that accurate? I know this is an off topic comment, but my goodness, I knew male figure skaters were scarce, but that's ridiculous! Perhaps the endangered male is just a U.S. phenomenon.
Everytime I see a guy on the ice with all these women it's like watching "Planet of the Apes". I've noticed that when a guy skates everyone stops to watch, even if he isn't the best skater. It's just sooo rare that it catches people's attention. Women are probably better skaters in just about every facet of figure skating, but men still add something to the ice. I just can't put my finger on it...

I guess the manufacturers have to make quadruple the number of white boots as black. Ice skating seems to be the only skating discipline left where the women and men are held to the boot shading rules. I've NEVER seen a man on white ice skates. There appears to be some leniency for changing the color of the skate for costume consistency. If the sport would loosen up on the rules, they could sell some more of those black boots gaining cobwebs. However, I must admit that I like the tradition.

[*IceDancer1419*]

I've seen a woman on black skates ;) A few, actually ;)

anyways. The nice thing about SP Teri and a few other boots is that you can get combination sizes... and have the heel made smaller than the ball (for those of you who have trouble with your heels slipping :) ) Mine is in a combination width and I *think* it's ok...

As far as bending... sometimes when you're breaking in skates, it helps to just not lace them up all the way (leave the top one out) to help you be able to bend. I never lace the top one, and never have, and it helps me, at least. :) I think my coach also mentioned unlacing the top actual LACE part (as in... not just the hooks) because that also helps bend? I'm not sure... she ended up telling me not to do that ;)

[diagetus]

*IceDancer1419*
I never lace the top one, and never have, and it helps me, at least.

I'll try this out. I may undo two hooks just to see the difference. Thanks for the tip.

[dbny]

I've seen a woman on black skates ;) A few, actually ;)

Our own Jazzpants wore black boots until she got her gorgeous purple custom Harlicks.

[diagetus]

dbny
Our own Jazzpants wore black boots until she got her gorgeous purple custom Harlicks.

*IceDancer1419*
I've seen a woman on black skates A few, actually



Hmmm. Well, I have yet to see that, but I'll take your word for it. Have you seen freestyle women wearing these in a singles competition? I think most parents enter their kids into ice-skating for competition. When the parents or child meet with the coach, I'm sure the coach is telling them, "You need to buy some WHITE boots" (if it's a girl).

Aside - I just don't believe the recreational aspect has permeated ice skating. Once you start getting into the recreational realm, almost anything goes. This is not a bad thing. The sport can potentially grow as a result. Rollerblading recieved "X-treme sports" and rollerskating recieved "~rexing" and "artistic"/"jam"/"freestyle". The sport adjusts to the growth and re-standardizes itself. In the other disciplines, the number of women on white or black is pretty evenly distributed now. Most women that do the traditional figures in rollerskating still wear white though.

[Casey]

For what it's worth, there are a couple little boys at my old rink who practice in white skates. It's probably just because their parents were able find used white skates a whole lot easier than black ones, and they don't want to buy new skates as their child is growing (or as these are pretty early skaters, maybe their parents didn't want to buy new skates until they knew whether their child was even going to stick with it for a while!).

I don't think I would ever wear white skates though. Too embarassing! It would be like wearing a skirt and glitter out there! :P

[Anita18]

Oh boy, it's stories like this that are making me VERY hesitant to get my blades machine sharpened. What is the rink pro shop? I know exactly what you're saying as far as the curve being straighter right after the pick. -Not good.
Usually rinks have shops by the ice that sell hockey and figure skating supplies. Many of them also have machine sharpeners that cater usually to hockey players (since hockey skates need to be sharpened much more often than figure skates). The machine sharpening is perfectly fine, ONLY if you get a sharpener who knows what he's doing. Usually hockey kids man the sharpening, but if you ask around, there's usually a figure skating coach at the rink who also knows how to do it. Now I go to private sharpeners who only do figure skates. They know waaay more than me about blades, so...yeah. :)

I wouldn't worry about the amount of metal being taken off after a sharpening. If it's a good machine sharpening, it shouldn't be much. If it's more convenient and cost-effective for you to do your own hand-sharpening, go ahead. But since I don't sharpen my blades very often, it probably wouldn't pay for itself by the time I need to upgrade anyway. (Whereas my skates have probably paid for themselves vs. renting, since I've had them so long).

Yes, I'm working on the bending also. It's extremely hard to bend at the ankles because the tougher leather boots aren't very flexible. That's why that Pro-flex boot looked neat. The ankle bending is a serious issue in my opinion.
It is NOT a serious issue once your skates have broken in. The first few weeks of skating in my SPTeris, I couldn't bend much at all. Now I can bend very low in them with no problem. That's why it's important to get skates that aren't too advanced for you, since the more advanced skates are made for people who train multiple hours a day every day doing multirotational jumps. They're tougher since they have to be. If you put a beginning skater in a triple-jump boot, it'll be months and months and months of break-in time, plus lots of frustration because the ankle bend will be nonexistent.

But being unable to bend in your new skates for the first month is totally normal. If you're still fighting to bend your knees after a few months, you've probably got skates that are too advanced for you.

From personal experience, knee bending is usually an issue of finding the right balance point on the blade that is the most stable, not a boot issue. Plus you have to think about it all the time, LOL. It doesn't come naturally to most.

[dbny]

For what it's worth, there are a couple little boys at my old rink who practice in white skates. It's probably just because their parents were able find used white skates a whole lot easier than black ones, and they don't want to buy new skates as their child is growing (or as these are pretty early skaters, maybe their parents didn't want to buy new skates until they knew whether their child was even going to stick with it for a while!).


Also, the really little ones don't care so much. The entry level recreational skates do not come in black. You have to spend at least $80 for black, as opposed to $50 for white. Boot covers are a cheap solution for the boys who object to white.

BTW, most woman coaches wear tan boots, as do some competitors and many synchro teams. My ex-coach, however, stuck with white because she loved the look.

[jenlyon60]

I've been wearing tan Klingbeils for 17 years. I like them because they seem to be more scuff resistant than white boots and I despise that Sk8Tape stuff for anything else other than practice.

I just ordered new boots and I almost joined the purple boot club (or the teal boot club... Paul had a sample pair of teal suede Klingbeils... but I was afraid that my OTB tights wouldn't provide sufficient coverage).

[diagetus]

Casey S
For what it's worth, there are a couple little boys at my old rink who practice in white skates. It's probably just because their parents were able find used white skates a whole lot easier than black ones, and they don't want to buy new skates as their child is growing (or as these are pretty early skaters, maybe their parents didn't want to buy new skates until they knew whether their child was even going to stick with it for a while!).

Interesting, I'm guessing these are tiny toddlers (around 5 years old).

I don't think I would ever wear white skates though. Too embarassing! It would be like wearing a skirt and glitter out there!

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, but a "pretty boy" type might get away with wearing the white boot.


Anita18
Usually hockey kids man the sharpening, but if you ask around, there's usually a figure skating coach at the rink who also knows how to do it.

That's a good idea. When in doubt - ask the coaches.


It is NOT a serious issue once your skates have broken in. The first few weeks of skating in my SPTeris, I couldn't bend much at all. Now I can bend very low in them with no problem.

Well, it's comforting to know that the boots will eventually allow more flexibility in that area. Does sleeping on them help break them in? (a little baseball humor) :)




dbny
Also, the really little ones don't care so much. The entry level recreational skates do not come in black. You have to spend at least $80 for black, as opposed to $50 for white. Boot covers are a cheap solution for the boys who object to white.


I didn't know there was a price difference. I'm guessing that's due to lack of demand for black boots.



jenlyon60
I've been wearing tan Klingbeils for 17 years. I like them because they seem to be more scuff resistant than white boots and I despise that Sk8Tape stuff for anything else other than practice.

Yes, I also imagined that women had a tougher time keeping those white boots clean. I did a google search on this Sk8Tape and found their website. Interesting concept. I can see how in certain respects it won't give you the results you need. Do you apply this stuff around the toe of the boot to reduce scratches from falls?


I just ordered new boots and I almost joined the purple boot club (or the teal boot club... Paul had a sample pair of teal suede Klingbeils... but I was afraid that my OTB tights wouldn't provide sufficient coverage).

lol, yeah I saw a picture of those purple boots somewhere on this forum. Quite a sight! I'm waiting for the pearlescents and air pump versions to come out myself. lol Seriously though, I wouldn't mind seeing some different nuetral colors or pastel colors. The fully saturated colors are too much for me. 8O

[dbny]

I didn't know there was a price difference. I'm guessing that's due to lack of demand for black boots.


Yes and no. There is less demand for black boots overall. I don't think it makes any sense not to make black in the lowest price level though, as that just reinforces the stereotypes. I once spoke with a Riedell regional rep about the problem, and was shocked at his sexist attitude. I would love to see Jackson make their entry figure skates in black, since they are wider and fit more kids anyway.

[luna_skater]

BTW, most woman coaches wear tan boots, as do some competitors and many synchro teams.

I would hesitate to say "most." At my rink, I can think of only two female coaches who have tan boots. And interestingly, the trend in synchro is going back towards white boots!

[flippet]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, but a "pretty boy" type might get away with wearing the white boot.

Do you mean gay? Go ahead, you can say that here, lol! Although some of us may dislike adhering so rigidly to a stereotype. ;)

Maybe someone can cough up the URL to the photo of ....oh, I forget his name...Jay something? The one who did the routine to MK's number, complete with costume and boots.


Well, it's comforting to know that the boots will eventually allow more flexibility in that area. Does sleeping on them help break them in? (a little baseball humor) :)

Nope! But tying baseballs into the ankle area will help break a skate in. (Helps 'punch out' the ankle bone area.)

Look for some photos of elite skaters doing things such as low sit spins, or hard jump landings...if you can get a close up of the boot, you'll sometimes see quite a crease at the ankle. They're getting plenty of knee and ankle bend, yet the skate is still supporting nicely. That's a benefit of good, solid leather boots. Support with flexibility (eventually).



Do you apply this stuff around the toe of the boot to reduce scratches from falls?

You can apply it anywhere you want, to either prevent scratches, or cover them up. Most scratches aren't obtained from falls--they're either gouges from the opposite blade when crossing your feet in jumps or spins, or tripping over your own feet doing crossovers or footwork, or especially those nasty patches you get along the sides of your boots when you do a lot of 'drags'.

Lots of us would never dream of covering up our scratches, though....they're well-earned battle scars that prove that we're working hard! :D (It's nice to have the option of taping them over if you really, really want your boots to look nice for a competition, however.)

[Cactus Bill]

Do you mean gay? Go ahead, you can say that here, lol! Although some of us may dislike adhering so rigidly to a stereotype. ;)

Maybe someone can cough up the URL to the photo of ....oh, I forget his name...Jay something? The one who did the routine to MK's number, complete with costume and boots.

His name is Jay Kobayashi (just like in "Kobayashi Maru"...a little Star Trek joke here!) and here is a link courtesy of Ms Jazzpants (he, incidently, is her primary coach). Thanks, Jazzpants!

http://www.32degrees.us/funny.html

8O

[luna_skater]

We do a lot of drags in synchro, so I always tape my "drag spot" to keep from burning a hole through the leather. Some synchro skaters cover their whole skate with beige skate tape, if they need to have beige skates for the team but prefer white skates for freestyle.

[Mrs Redboots]

His name is Jay Kobayashi (just like in "Kobayashi Maru"...a little Star Trek joke here!) and here is a link courtesy of Ms Jazzpants (he, incidently, is her primary coach). Thanks, Jazzpants!

http://www.32degrees.us/funny.html

8OHe did a very Kwan-esque spiral in his routine at Oberstdorf, too! Incidentally, Jazzpants, he has a little something for you from me, so don't let him forget to give it to you (only one of my bars of soap, but I thought you'd like one).

[jazzpants]

He did a very Kwan-esque spiral in his routine at Oberstdorf, too! Incidentally, Jazzpants, he has a little something for you from me, so don't let him forget to give it to you (only one of my bars of soap, but I thought you'd like one).I got your email and will remind him ;) ...and yes, I DO want one!!! THANK YOU!!! :mrgreen:

His name is Jay Kobayashi (just like in "Kobayashi Maru"...a little Star Trek joke here!)Luckily for me, my lessons usually doesn't always feel like "Kobayashi Maru" with Jay. My secondary coach, OTOH... :twisted: :lol: :P

[aussieskater]

Also, the really little ones don't care so much. The entry level recreational skates do not come in black. You have to spend at least $80 for black, as opposed to $50 for white. Boot covers are a cheap solution for the boys who object to white.
Another solution I've seen at our rink is to tape the boots black, or to dye them. There may be some issue regarding ease of resale once the boots are permanently dyed black (especially given the fact that so few boys figure skate!), so maybe taping them might be the way to go?

I started out in second-hand black skates and painted them white (it worked well, but was a lot of work to get a good finish that lasted), and I know others who have dyed old white skates black (I was told this was less work than I had had to do!). They also looked really good.

[diagetus]

dbny
I once spoke with a Riedell regional rep about the problem, and was shocked at his sexist attitude. I would love to see Jackson make their entry figure skates in black, since they are wider and fit more kids anyway.

-Now I'm curious. I wonder what the regional rep. said.





luna_skater
I would hesitate to say "most." At my rink, I can think of only two female coaches who have tan boots. And interestingly, the trend in synchro is going back towards white boots!

-Yeah, most of the ladies who teach and do synchro at my rink wear white also. The tan vs. white sounds like a variable from rink to rink. Neither here nor there.






flippet
Do you mean gay? Go ahead, you can say that here, lol! Although some of us may dislike adhering so rigidly to a stereotype.

-No. This is not what I meant. (Oh my, the ambiguity of internet writing!) I was refering to men who are handsome and know that they are handsome and wear that pride on the outside. I know that sounds like being macho, but it is not the same. It's difficult to put into words.


tying baseballs into the ankle area will help break a skate in. (Helps 'punch out' the ankle bone area.)

-So you squeeze the baseballs inside the boot to stretch it out? Where does the tying come in?


Look for some photos of elite skaters doing things such as low sit spins, or hard jump landings...if you can get a close up of the boot, you'll sometimes see quite a crease at the ankle. They're getting plenty of knee and ankle bend, yet the skate is still supporting nicely. That's a benefit of good, solid leather boots. Support with flexibility (eventually).

-Interesting, I'll have to watch out for that. I was thinking once the crease lines start up, that boot is done for.



You can apply it [sk8tape] anywhere you want, to either prevent scratches, or cover them up. Most scratches aren't obtained from falls--they're either gouges from the opposite blade when crossing your feet in jumps or spins, or tripping over your own feet doing crossovers or footwork, or especially those nasty patches you get along the sides of your boots when you do a lot of 'drags'.

-Lol, I've seen that drag move before. It looks really nice when you can rotate in a circle with it. I could see how that would do a number on the coating of your skates. It could be just me, but it seems like the black boots look better after scuffs than the white boots. When the whites get scuffed there's a tan color underneath the top coat. When black boots get scuffed there's just an off-black shade underneath and the boots still look ok from a distance.



Cactus Bill
His name is Jay Kobayashi (just like in "Kobayashi Maru"...a little Star Trek joke here!) and here is a link courtesy of Ms Jazzpants (he, incidently, is her primary coach). Thanks, Jazzpants!

http://www.32degrees.us/funny.html


-lol, unbelievable picture Cactus Bill! I wouldn't be surprised if the guy gets all kinds of crap being japanese. Here's an example conversation-

Sk8r - "Wow! Are you Michelle Kwan's brother?"

Kobayashi - "No" :roll:

Sk8r - "Are you related?"

Kobayashi - "No" :roll:

Sk8r - "Are you Michelle Kwan?"

Kobayashi - "NO. NO. NO. Now leave me ALONE."

That's when he snaps and comes up with this routine. LOL.
I wonder how the audience took that performance at first. The spiral does look "Kwan-esque" though. Thanks for the link.



luna_skater
We do a lot of drags in synchro, so I always tape my "drag spot" to keep from burning a hole through the leather.

-Once again, something I've never seen - a hole in the side of a boot. I guess if you're doing drags every session, it's a real problem.


aussieskater
I started out in second-hand black skates and painted them white (it worked well, but was a lot of work to get a good finish that lasted), and I know others who have dyed old white skates black (I was told this was less work than I had had to do!). They also looked really good.

- That does sound like a lot of work. I can see how you can easily go from light to dark; just sand with ~300 fine grit sandpaper and dye. The reverse seems impossible to me. You must have been using some super-opaque white dye because anything less would have yielded gray boots (which might not be a bad look). Do you remember what kind of dye you were using? Any other forum members custom dye their own boots? It's something I'm willing to try on my next pair.

[aussieskater]

That does sound like a lot of work. I can see how you can easily go from light to dark; just sand with ~300 fine grit sandpaper and dye. The reverse seems impossible to me. You must have been using some super-opaque white dye because anything less would have yielded gray boots (which might not be a bad look). Do you remember what kind of dye you were using? Any other forum members custom dye their own boots? It's something I'm willing to try on my next pair.Apologies in advance for the long post following...

First note - I'd suggest you do not use sandpaper at all, no matter how fine the grit and no matter whether you're going from black to white or vice versa. I suspect you might hurt the leather.

Second note - all the figure skates I've seen, apart from hire skates, are painted. They may well be dyed first, but all seem to have a thick layer of leather paint over top. The trick is getting this off first.

Third note - changing the colour is reasonably easy but fiddly, and good preparation is the key. When you try this, allow yourself plenty of time for boot preparation and the application of each coat of boot paint.

Fourth note - it's good to have a few days of still and hot weather to do this, so that the paint dries without dust etc blowing into it while it's wet.

Now for the instructions. I have myself changed boots from black to white, and then worn them two or three times a week for a further year. Most of the people at my rink, including the experienced skaters, did not realise the boots were originally black. After a year of wear, they still looked as if they had always been white, with some "hard use" scar marks.

To go from black to white:

Step (1) Obtain some rubbing alcohol (available from a chemist (USA = drugstore?). You'll probably need about 200-300 mls of alcohol - a 50-ml (2 oz?) bottle won't be enough. Methylated spirits might work, but I haven't tried it myself.

Apply the alcohol with an old towel (which you are planning to throw out, as it will be ruined at the end of this) all over the boot upper, including the tongue. You're aiming to remove the waterproofing and the sealant which is sealing the black paint onto the leather. The towel is a little rough, although not as rough as sandpaper, and will help remove the coating. You will see and feel where the rubbing alcohol is working properly, as the leather will become matte and some of the paint will start to dissolve (good).

You are halfway there. Keep going with the alcohol until the paint melts away, and the leather starts to be exposed. You need to be thorough (any parts you miss will show when you get to the painting stage), but gentle too - you don't want to hurt the leather. You'll probably need an hour or two to do both boots.

Pay attention to the metal bits too, if they are black and you are going to want to change them. You might need to use metal paint stripper with a cotton bud on them. I was lucky - the black paint came off with fairly aggressive use of the alcohol.

Step (2) Once the boot is really matte all over and all the paint is gone, you have given the new paint a "key" to attach to the boot and hopefully not chip off in use! So give it one more go with the rubbing alcohol (just to be sure), and allow to dry thoroughly. Then take a plastic bag or similar and *lots* of ordinary sticky tape etc, and tape the plastic carefully around the sole, enclosing the sole edge, the sole itself, and the blade. You *don't* want to get paint on these. Again, be very careful about this - proper leather paint won't come off easily so you don't want to make a mistake. Also, stuff the boot right to the top with newspaper or similar, to keep the paint out of the inside.

Step (3) Take any good *aerosol spray* leather paint (ie: not bottle plus brush or applicator), and apply it to the boot as per the directions. I tied the boot by the blade to the clothesline outside as this made it easy to get to all the corners etc without touching the wet paint. Down here, we use Tuxan brand, but that brand may not be available in the States? The benefit of using leather paint is that it has some flex in it, so it won't crease off as easily in use, unlike normal aerosol house paint or similar.

Apply the first coat very lightly - lots of the black will show through. Allow to dry. When dry, apply the second light coat, then the third. You'll probably need 4 coats minimum. Make sure each coat is properly dry before the next one, and that all coats are light - a thick coat will probably run when drying and in any event will not adhere properly. Then allow to dry for at least a day, preferably 2, to allow the paint to cure.

The leather paint should adhere to the metal bits too. If there are patches where it didn't get into which are obvious, you can use Liquid Paper or similar to touch up.

Enjoy your new white boots!

To go from white to black, I was told the following (I haven't done this for myself): you follow steps (1) and (2) above, and then use Tuxan liquid leather dye (in a bottle with an applicator) on the boots. Two coats would probably be enough. Then you take the Tuxan leather spray paint in black, and apply it over the top. You don't need to be as careful with making sure your coats are even, as the dyed boot underneath is much more forgiving and will hide a lot of mistakes. Mind you, care will result in a lovely finish.

Enjoy your new black boots!

[luna_skater]

Nail polish will also work, or any "leather dye preparer." Magix brand used to make one.

[jazzpants]

Cactus Bill

-lol, unbelievable picture Cactus Bill! I wouldn't be surprised if the guy gets all kinds of crap being japanese. Here's an example conversation-

Sk8r - "Wow! Are you Michelle Kwan's brother?"

Kobayashi - "No" :roll:

Sk8r - "Are you related?"

Kobayashi - "No" :roll:

Sk8r - "Are you Michelle Kwan?"

Kobayashi - "NO. NO. NO. Now leave me ALONE."

That's when he snaps and comes up with this routine. LOL.
I wonder how the audience took that performance at first. The spiral does look "Kwan-esque" though. Thanks for the link.
ROFLMAO!!! Well, that's an interesting dialog there! :lol: And no, he's not as Japanese as you think. He's VERY American!!! His old hula program is interesting too! (He and his sister were hula dancers too.)

Well, it's also "Kwan-esque" since he does do the change edge spiral in his program. :P

Gotta go to bed now... I have an early day (in fact, b/c I'm seeing Jay for a lesson... speak of the devil...) :twisted:

[Casey]

I'd suggest you do not use sandpaper at all, no matter how fine the grit and no matter whether you're going from black to white or vice versa. I suspect you might hurt the leather.

all the figure skates I've seen, apart from hire skates, are painted

Well, I guess with suede then, all bets are off! I've been told by multiple people that the proper way to restore smoothed patches on my suede boots is to use a bit of course sandpaper (don't remember what grit). I haven't ever done this, but probably will if/when I ever go to a competition, just so they look their best.

And my skates sure aren't painted, that would destroy the beautiful suede finish!


Speaking of alternative colors/finishing materials, when I bought my skates there was a brand new pair of custom Klingbeils waiting on the customer to pick them up. Instead of leather or suede, the external layer was real leopardskin, with the hair still on of course! The color of leopardskin went extraordinarily well with the gold-plated gold star blades that were on them. I guess you would have to wear a cover at all times except competitions to protect the surface though - can you imagine hitting that with your blade my mistake?

I'm pretty sure leopardskin isn't my thing, and I know jazzpants/tashakat's purple isn't my thing, but I do wonder what other unusual possibilities might be a good idea for my skates. I do like my current black suede quite a lot.

[aussieskater]

Well, I guess with suede then, all bets are off! Oops - forgot suede finished ones !! (If I could get smilies to work, there'd be an "embarrassed" one now!!)

[Cactus Bill]

Oops - forgot suede finished ones !! (If I could get smilies to work, there'd be an "embarrassed" one now!!)
Here you go!

:oops:

[dbny]

Speaking of alternative colors/finishing materials, when I bought my skates there was a brand new pair of custom Klingbeils waiting on the customer to pick them up. Instead of leather or suede, the external layer was real leopardskin, with the hair still on of course!

It was real calfskin dyed to look like leopard.

[diagetus]

Thanks for that tutorial aussieskater. I hope the mods. put up your post as a sticky on this forum.

aussieskater
Step (1) Obtain some rubbing alcohol (available from a chemist (USA = drugstore?). You'll probably need about 200-300 mls of alcohol - a 50-ml (2 oz?) bottle won't be enough. Methylated spirits might work, but I haven't tried it myself.

and


luna_skater
Nail polish will also work, or any "leather dye preparer." Magix brand used to make one.

Well, I can see this is going to be a smelly project. This sounds like something to be conducted outdoors with gooood ventilation.


jazzpants
ROFLMAO!!! Well, that's an interesting dialog there!

Unfortunately, it probably isn't too far fetched. Ice rinks are definitely more diverse than they were 10 years ago, but ice skating probably isn't as diversified as it could be.


Casey S
The color of leopardskin went extraordinarily well with the gold-plated gold star blades that were on them. I guess you would have to wear a cover at all times except competitions to protect the surface though - can you imagine hitting that with your blade my mistake?

Yes, I can imagine it. It would look pretty funny. After a few dozen hard falls and skids on those things you'd probably have these embarassing, conspicuous barren patches throughout the fur coating.


I do like my current black suede quite a lot.

You know where I could find a picture of some suede skates? Velvet would probably be a neat look too...

[*IceDancer1419*]

Speaking of alternative colors/finishing materials, when I bought my skates there was a brand new pair of custom Klingbeils waiting on the customer to pick them up. Instead of leather or suede, the external layer was real leopardskin, with the hair still on of course! The color of leopardskin went extraordinarily well with the gold-plated gold star blades that were on them. I guess you would have to wear a cover at all times except competitions to protect the surface though - can you imagine hitting that with your blade my mistake?

HEY those might have been my friend's skates!!! lol!!! I have a friend with the leopard-print boots and gold MK Professional blades that she got within this past year... they were custom Harlicks, though. Are you sure they weren't just being sharpened? I thought she'd gotten them earlier than that... when did you buy your skates again? lol

Oh but she got new skates now... custom Klingbeil's. Yes, two new pairs within one year mostly because she felt like it. sigh. and on her new boots she has parabolic coronation ace. Because she felt like it. SIGH.

[Casey]

You know where I could find a picture of some suede skates? Velvet would probably be a neat look too...
Yes, as they are just the way stock Graf Edmonton Specials come (which is what I have). They are also available in leather. Here is a picture of both:

http://www.grafskates.ch/Katalog1/Bilder/edmonton3.jpg

And here are pictures of my very own skates!!!:

http://sk8rland.com/users/kc/pictures/phone/Image024.jpghttp://sk8rland.com/users/kc/pictures/phone/Image025.jpg
http://sk8rland.com/users/kc/pictures/phone/Image026.jpghttp://sk8rland.com/users/kc/pictures/phone/Image027.jpg
http://sk8rland.com/users/kc/pictures/phone/Image028.jpg


(by the way, I took these all with my Nokia 6230 phone (you can see it in the blade reflection). The 6230i is out now, and has a better camera. I want it. :( Who says camera phones are useless?!)

HEY those might have been my friend's skates!!! lol!!!
They probably were, since that's where you skate! I don't know if they were just there for sharpening, but they sure looked new! I saw them there in mid to late December. And yes, I think they were Harlicks now that I think about it - I just remembered that they were some high-end brand, I thought Klingbeil for some reason. I touched your friend's skates - LOL! Yet I haven't yet met you (though maybe that will change when I start skating at OVA soon :D ).

[diagetus]

Thank you for those pics Casey S. Those suedes look great.
Here are some comparison pics of a Riedell 117 boot and the Pro SP Teri.

http://www.3dflat.com/Pit/SkatePics.jpg

Granted, one boot is much older than the other (and not used for ice skating), but here's a few things I noticed that probably don't depend on that.

1. The heel is higher on the SP Teri Professional and the back of the heel tapers closer in towards the foot.

2. Plastic heel on the Riedell, wooden on the SP Teri.

3. Longer tongue on the SP Teri with 5 tie hooks instead of 4 on the Riedell.

4. Less texture in the leather on the SP Teri.

5. The arch of the SP Teri seems to be punched out more.

6. The toe seems to be more rounded in the Pro SP Teri, especially when you look at the tongue/lace border.

7. This isn't a visual observation, but the Pro SP Teri Leather is definitely tougher than the Riedell 117. The SP Teri feels like a wooden shoe in comparison.

I added two extra pics. One is a picture of the double star symbol and the other is a picture of patent information printed under the boot of the Pro SP Teri. The photo is a bit blurry. Next time someone asks me what I'm wearing I will confidently tell them, "I'm on a 3,413,736 patent boot". I wonder what is contained in the patent. I didn't take a picture of the inside of the boot, but it says on the inside of the ankle area that it is "hand lasted". I don't know what that means.

[Mrs Redboots]

Granted, one boot is much older than the other (not used for ice skating) Then don't rely on it - manufacturers are constantly updating and changing their models, and the modern equivalent might be quite different.

[diagetus]

Mrs Redboots
Then don't rely on it - manufacturers are constantly updating and changing their models, and the modern equivalent might be quite different.

Point taken. I should also mention that the Pro SP Teri boot is pretty old as well. ~Both are atleast 5 years old. Hopefully, the post is still useful in showing differences in boot anatomy even if the character of the boot has changed for those particular models.

[flippet]

2. Plastic heel on the Riedell, wooden on the SP Teri.

Nope. While the Riedell 117's may well be plastic (I assume the blades are riveted on then, not screwed?), I've never seen or heard of a wooden sole/blade for a boot. What looks like wood is actually layers of leather. It's a common beginner 'error'. :)

Most of the rest of what you noticed doesn't really matter a whole lot in the long run--it's just that the Teris are a much better, more well-made boot. They look really nice, actually, are they yours?

but it says on the inside of the ankle area that it is "hand lasted". I don't know what that means.

Well, since a 'last' is the usually wooden foot form that a boot or shoe is shaped to, I would imagine that it means that it's been shaped to the last by hand. It's another sign of a quality boot.

[diagetus]

Flippet
Nope. While the Riedell 117's may well be plastic (I assume the blades are riveted on then, not screwed?), I've never seen or heard of a wooden sole/blade for a boot. What looks like wood is actually layers of leather. It's a common beginner 'error'.

I stand corrected. Yes, I assumed they were wood since there was layering on the heel. I should have questioned it though because I read somewhere that the freestyle boot heel is often a little too high for doing figures and that the bottom "layer" can be removed. It should have registered that cutting a wooden heel would be no easy task. I don't think they make boots with wooden heels, but the original skates, when ice skating was in its infancy, had wooden soles connected to the blades. These were not boots. At that time, I think more emphasis was placed on the quality of the blade instead of the shoe it was mounted on. Now, I think boot and blade get equal attention.

Though the boot is leather, it feels like wood. I'm still trying to break mine in. I can skate for about 3 hours, then I have to take a break. Some hockey guys next to me saw me rubbing my feet and my contorted face. They knew right away. They said the hockey people have it even worse because the plastic boot never breaks in. When it does break in, it's broken.


Most of the rest of what you noticed doesn't really matter a whole lot in the long run--it's just that the Teris are a much better, more well-made boot. They look really nice, actually, are they yours?

Thanks for the compliment. Yes, both of those boots are mine.

I noticed some of the boot manufacturers are currently placing their logo on the heel of the boot, like other sports shoes. I don't know how other people feel about this, but I find it extremely annoying. It's distracting to the point where I'd probably cut off the logo, sand smooth if necessary, and repaint the heel. To me, the equivalent is having a little swoosh on the heel of your new Stacy Adams dress shoes. It just doesn't strike me as being very attractive.


Well, since a 'last' is the usually wooden foot form that a boot or shoe is shaped to, I would imagine that it means that it's been shaped to the last by hand. It's another sign of a quality boot.

Interesting. Ok. I'll buy that.

[Casey]

I noticed some of the boot manufacturers are currently placing their logo on the heel of the boot, like other sports shoes. I don't know how other people feel about this, but I find it extremely annoying. It's distracting to the point where I'd probably cut off the logo, sand smooth if necessary, and repaint the heel. To me, the equivalent is having a little swoosh on the heel of your new Stacy Adams dress shoes. It just doesn't strike me as being very attractive.
I agree! My Grafs had their logo printed in gold on the tongue, but it fortunately wore away to nothingness within a couple months. I wonder if the little things on the heel come off very easily...

[luna_skater]

That's not really a new trend. Harlicks, SP-Teri's and Risports have had logos on the heel for years and years. Gams don't have it, and neither do Grafs. Riedell has started to do it on their new models.

[Cactus Bill]

Harlicks also have them... but the new ones are a little cheaper looking than the previous ones are. My fitter also mentioned that a lot of people remove them because they tend to fall off onto the ice. The Harlick logos are held on with a pair of brads, and they can over time work loose.

[icedancer2]

That's not really a new trend. Harlicks, SP-Teri's and Risports have had logos on the heel for years and years. Gams don't have it, and neither do Grafs. Riedell has started to do it on their new models.

Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by years and years. My 15-year-old Teri boots don't have them, but my brand new ones do!

And I like it! I have pretty, new boots!

[diagetus]

Cactus Bill

My fitter also mentioned that a lot of people remove them because they tend to fall off onto the ice. The Harlick logos are held on with a pair of brads, and they can over time work loose.

Did the fitter explain how they were being removed? Just prying loose with screw driver or metal file is my guess.


icedancer2
Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by years and years. My 15-year-old Teri boots don't have them, but my brand new ones do!

And I like it! I have pretty, new boots!

Yeah, my SP Teris are about 5 years old, so I'm guessing they didn't start the logo placement until the late 90's. Is the new boot the same model as the old one or is it an upgrade? Care to post a few pics?

[icedancer2]

Yeah, my SP Teris are about 5 years old, so I'm guessing they didn't start the logo placement until the late 90's. Is the new boot the same model as the old one or is it an upgrade? Care to post a few pics?

No pictures, sorry -- don't have that capability --

The old 15-year boots were Teri Super-Teri stock boots. Loved them and had no problems with them, they were just really worn out and well-loved.

New boots are the Teri Dance boot -- they are shorter, shorter still in the back but are basically the same weight of leather as the Super-Teri. They are stiff, but so far, so good. Had to get used to the shortness, but I am getting there.

I took out my old boots the other day just to look at them, -- wow, they are really broken down!!

Anybody want to buy a pair of old broken-down Teri Super Teri (about size 9 -- they stretched over the years!) with a 10 1/4 inch MK Dance blade? the blades are in good shape -- only had them about 2 years and maybe 6 sharpenings!

[diagetus]

With all this talk about SP-Teri and Riedell I just assumed I had the proper pronunciation. Just to make sure I atleast sound like I know what I'm talking about:

Riedell - pronounced [Rid-dell] not [Ray-dell] or [Rii-dell]

SP-Teri - pronounced [Es-Pee-Terry] not [Spit-Terry]

Is this correct? I wonder why Spiteri named their boots SP-Teri instead of just using their last name.

[icedancer2]

Riedell is like "Rye-Dell" with the emphasis on the 2nd syllable.

I don't know why the Spiteri's call it SP Teri.

Anyone?

[flippet]

Riedell is like "Rye-Dell" with the emphasis on the 2nd syllable.

I don't know why the Spiteri's call it SP Teri.

Anyone?

I dunno....maybe to not have the 'spit' sound?

Actually, according to German pronunciation rules, the Riedell 'ought' to be 'ree-dell'....I have no idea why it's 'rye' instead. RIE is 'ree', and REI is 'rye'.

[icedancer2]

Actually, according to German pronunciation rules, the Riedell 'ought' to be 'ree-dell'....I have no idea why it's 'rye' instead. RIE is 'ree', and REI is 'rye'.

Another basic Americanization I suppose??

[jazzpants]

SP-Teri - pronounced [Es-Pee-Terry] not [Spit-Terry]

Is this correct? I wonder why Spiteri named their boots SP-Teri instead of just using their last name.Beats me! A play on words, I supposed. But yes, it's definitely [Es-Pee-Terry]... at least according to how the guys at the shop says it. :P (The SP Teri factory shop is a very short drive from my home...) ;)

[Casey]

In 1963, Joseph Spiteri named his new company SP-Teri because he thought it would be easier for people to pronounce and remember that version of his last name.

[dbny]

Beats me! A play on words, I supposed. But yes, it's definitely [Es-Pee-Terry]... at least according to how the guys at the shop says it. :P (The SP Teri factory shop is a very short drive from my home...) ;)

I know a lot of skaters who wear SP-Teri's who pronounce it "Spi Teri" with the accent on "Teri".

[icedancer2]

In 1963, Joseph Spiteri named his new company SP-Teri because he thought it would be easier for people to pronounce and remember that version of his last name.

And that same Joseph Spiteri was a bootmaker for Harlick.

[*IceDancer1419*]

My teacher took the logo off of my heel (I had SP Teris). I'm not sure how, but she did it so she could put pretty crystals around the heel, which look actually qutie gorgeous, if I do say so myself ;)

[diagetus]

So it looks like [Es-Pee Terry] or [Spi-Terry] are acceptable for SP-Teri and [Rye-dell] or [Ree-dell] for the Riedell.

dbny
And that same Joseph Spiteri was a bootmaker for Harlick.

Yes, and that same bootmaker jumped to get a patent on his boot. I just wonder if Harlicks have a patent or if there was any controversy about stolen information.

*IceDancer1419*
My teacher took the logo off of my heel (I had SP Teris). I'm not sure how, but she did it so she could put pretty crystals around the heel, which look actually qutie gorgeous, if I do say so myself

-I bet it does look nice. Are they like faceted rhine stones or a crystal like quartz? I'd love to see some pictures of the boots if you have any. I think it would look cool if the women had the bottom layer of the heel as a ruby or turqouise crystal. (Probably not the safest thing to do jumps in though). Then put a boa over your shoulder. Glamour magazine here we come!


I have to mention that I looked at my MK Double Star blades and was surprised to see rust residue in the concavity of the hollow. Is this normal, or do I need to do a better job of drying my blades after skating? After seeing the rust it really got me thinking about water-proofing everything. What do you all use to waterproof your boots and blades? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.


Once again, thank you all for contributing to this thread. I had a lot of fun reading it and viewing pictures.

[jenlyon60]

You probably just need to do a slightly better job of drying the blades after skating. Sometimes I find it helps to take my skates off and let the blades warm up a bit before drying them off. That way I don't get condensation from the change in temperature after I've dried them once.

For me this routine works because 99% of the time I'm changing from skate clothes to work clothes. So I get my skates off, let them sit while I clean up for work, then dry my blades, toss everything in my skate bag and ski-daddle for work.

I have to mention that I looked at my MK Double Star blades and was surprised to see rust residue in the concavity of the hollow. Is this normal, or do I need to do a better job of drying my blades after skating? After seeing the rust it really got me thinking about water-proofing everything. What do you all use to waterproof your boots and blades? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[Casey]

Then put a boa over your shoulder. Glamour magazine here we come!
A feather boa or a boa constrictor? I thought you meant the latter at first until I thought about it for a minute. I'd sure like to see it.

I have to mention that I looked at my MK Double Star blades and was surprised to see rust residue in the concavity of the hollow. Is this normal?

No, it's not. The cavities formed by the rust will also impact your skating, because the amount of friction is increased. So you might want to take them to your sharpener and have him do a quick pass over them...

You should be using soft blade guards on your blades - these will absorb any excess moisture.

There's nothing you can do to waterproof your blades. Your blades can rust if you don't use the soft guards, because after you dry your blades, they are still very cold, and condensation brings new moisture to the blade.

[diagetus]

jenlyon60
For me this routine works because 99% of the time I'm changing from skate clothes to work clothes.

Wow. You're dedicated. You mean you skate before you go to work? :??


Casey S
A feather boa or a boa constrictor?
I meant a feather boa. LOL, but a skater gliding on ice with a giant snake wrapped around them would be a real show stopper (especially after the skater is squeezed to death)!!

jenlyon60
You probably just need to do a slightly better job of drying the blades after skating.

and

Casey S
You should be using soft blade guards on your blades - these will absorb any excess moisture.

Thank you for your responses. I'll make sure to do both of these things. Since it's summer time the temperatures have been in the 100's. The skates sit in the trunk of my car. Maybe that will loosen up the leather so I can break them in faster (and maybe I'm thinking nonsense). I'm guessing they will be ok, but perhaps I need to take them inside... If I can't do anything to seal the blades, what should I apply to waterproof my boots? Any testimony on sealants that work well and last awhile will save me some time and money. Any advice?

[Casey]

Since it's summer time the temperatures have been in the 100's. The skates sit in the trunk of my car. Maybe that will loosen up the leather so I can break them in faster (and maybe I'm thinking nonsense). I'm guessing they will be ok, but perhaps I need to take them inside...
:giveup: Take them inside! I actually don't know firsthand about this one, but I've heard that temperature changes that extreme can be quite harmful to the boots. With regard to breaking them in, there's a bunch of different tricks that people sometimes use to try to break them in faster, but those can also break them in improperly. I think the best quote I heard on the subject (don't have the exact quote, unfortunately), said that the only good way to break in skates was to skate on them. :)

I'd also be concerned about moisture in the trunk - Ideally you want to hang the skates up or at least take them out of the bag and set them aside so that they can air out between sessions.

If I can't do anything to seal the blades, what should I apply to waterproof my boots? Any testimony on sealants that work well and last awhile will save me some time and money. Any advice?
Where did you buy your boots? They should have waterproofed the soles right away. I, and most others, have Sno-Seal on the bottoms. It needs to be re-applied periodically, but it's cheap.

You can also get them varnished, which gives a more attractive look, but needs a lot of coats (time-consuming) to be effective, and should you damage it (i.e. with the other blade), then moisture will get to the leather through that hole and cause damage. So basically, pick one or the other, and keep up the maintenance. :)

The sides, etc. don't need any waterproofing - just the soles.

[jenlyon60]

Wow. You're dedicated. You mean you skate before you go to work? :??



Definitely put some Sno-Seal or other similar waterproofing compound on the soles/heels of your boots. Am surprised it hasn't already been done, as most (ice) skate shops do it as a matter of course for new boot purchases (or at least the shops I've always dealt with).

And yes, I skate before work, 2-3 days a week. Much less crowded than skating after work. Although next week with the start of the summer schedule it'll be more crowded with 2-3 novice/junior dance teams all training in the early block. Plus 1 adult gold dance team a couple days a week.

[Mrs Redboots]

jenlyon60
Wow. You're dedicated. You mean you skate before you go to work? :??
Doesn't everybody? We get far and away more ice time then (6.00-10.30 am, if we wanted, four mornings a week, and 6.00-9.00 am 2 mornings), plus there's not being tired, plus the ice is usually reasonable to very good at the start of the session.....

As for drying your blades, I second Jen's idea of letting them sit. You can do a first wipe-off with loo paper or a tissue, then get changed, do your stretching or other off-ice cool down, in whichever order, and then finish drying your blades on a towel or old face-flannel. Then store the blades in towelling soakers, and each skate inside its individual fabric bag to stop scratches on the leather. Don't forget to polish them occasionally, too - the leather needs feeding!

[flippet]

So it looks like [Es-Pee Terry] or [Spi-Terry] are acceptable for SP-Teri and [Rye-dell] or [Ree-dell] for the Riedell.

Actually, I've never heard anyone pronounce Riedell 'ree-dell'. I was just mentioning that it goes against usual German pronounciation rules. (This is sort of a 'thing' with me...my maiden name is Riemann...that's 'ree-man'. I would always get 'ry-man', and had to explain things. Think of Reiman Publications...that's 'ry-man'.) I just think that Riedell being pronounced 'ry-dell' is odd, given my background, but that's the way it is.


So.....with all these questions about equipment and such....have you actually started skating yet?

[diagetus]

Casey S
I, and most others, have Sno-Seal on the bottoms.

jenlyon60
Definitely put some Sno-Seal or other similar waterproofing compound on the soles/heels of your boots.

-Sno Seal it is then.


jenlyon60
And yes, I skate before work, 2-3 days a week. Much less crowded than skating after work.

-I don't think my rink offers the early morning sessions and the evening sessions are definitely more crowded than afternoons. I think the evening crowds are mostly kids, especially during the school year.



Mrs Redboots
Don't forget to polish them occasionally, too - the leather needs feeding

-Yeah, I just need to find a black shoe polish that is a close match to the boot.



flippet
So.....with all these questions about equipment and such....have you actually started skating yet?

-Yes, I'm finally practicing. However, I can only skate for about 2 hours a session because the boots are too painful to skate in after that. I'm shooting for 2-3 times a week. Hopefully, they'll loosen up soon. I'm getting better at bending and pulled off "Shoot-The-Duck" before nearly killing myself. I think I'll go with Casey S's advice and break them in the ol' fashioned way. That baseball method is awfully tempting though...

[NCSkater02]

Wow. You're dedicated. You mean you skate before you go to work? :??

The skates sit in the trunk of my car.

I also skate before work--twice a week in the summer. I love it. During the rest of the year, I go after work.

Also, I take my skates into work with me. I think I look pretty silly walking into the hospital, and through patient care areas carrying them, but I think I am protecting them from baking and breaking down in my car....sitting in the sun....also in the high temps--with the humidity competing with heat for the high.

[*IceDancer1419*]

Re: my skates... I don't CURRENTLY have a pic, but I will take one one of these days :roll: And when I do, I will be sure to post it! ;)

[doubletoe]

Hello, doubletoe. The shoe selection was fairly limited for my size. They only had Reidell and SP-Teri at the time. I guess I should ask them to order Risports, Harlicks, and Gam. My hypothesis is that they don't carry all those names because they don't have enough skaters doing business with their store. I'll be hard pressed to get them to bring in more boots, because I just purchased a pair. Perhaps if I had asked earlier, they might have gone the extra mile. doubletoe, how do you know if a fitter is a real pro? What kind of credentials should they have? I know my fitter has been doing this for quite a while. I assumed that was enough. Beyond that, I don't know what to look for.[/QUOTE]

As you learn more about skating and what you want to do with your skating, you will probably upgrade your boots and blades anyway. At this point, the boot fitter you are gong to is probably doing a pretty good job, and the rest will be a gradual learning experience. I wear SP Teris and I can tell you they are the most durable boot around. On the other hand, they are also harder and stiffer and take longer to break in. So make sure you get them "punched out" at the ankle bones or anywhere else they press against the bones of your feet and bother you. And get some ankle sleeves (gel sleeves) to wear under the boots. Oh, and you will learn to thank your lucky stars for toepicks as soon as you start skating backwards! ;)

[Thin-Ice]

With all this talk about SP-Teri and Riedell I just assumed I had the proper pronunciation. Just to make sure I atleast sound like I know what I'm talking about:

Riedell - pronounced [Rid-dell] not [Ray-dell] or [Rii-dell]

SP-Teri - pronounced [Es-Pee-Terry] not [Spit-Terry]

Is this correct? I wonder why Spiteri named their boots SP-Teri instead of just using their last name.


I skate at the rink where George Spiteri's wife coaches.. and see him from time to time. He says "spuh-TERI" is his how his last name is pronounced.. and the company name is pronounced "S-P-Teri". :)

[Thin-Ice]

[QUOTE=diagetus] -Yeah, I just need to find a black shoe polish that is a close match to the boot.



Check with your pro-shop or Rainbo Sports.. most bootmakers have their own lines of boot polish that is the same as what they put on their skates. (Although it is easier to find a standard black shoe polish that matches exactly than it is to find a white shoe polish that's an exact match.)

[diagetus]

Hello Thin Ice. Thanks for those helpful posts.

Thin IceI skate at the rink where George Spiteri's wife coaches.. and see him from time to time. He says "spuh-TERI" is his how his last name is pronounced.. and the company name is pronounced "S-P-Teri".


-Welp, that settles that. :D


Check with your pro-shop or Rainbo Sports.. most bootmakers have their own lines of boot polish that is the same as what they put on their skates. (Although it is easier to find a standard black shoe polish that matches exactly than it is to find a white shoe polish that's an exact match.)

I will have to check on this. I can see how the white would be harder to match than the black.


doubletoe
I wear SP Teris and I can tell you they are the most durable boot around. On the other hand, they are also harder and stiffer and take longer to break in. So make sure you get them "punched out" at the ankle bones or anywhere else they press against the bones of your feet and bother you.

-Yeah, these SP Teri boots are rock hard. I don't know the leather weight for a Pro SP Teri, but I push just about anywhere on the outside of the boot and it barely budges. It's hard to believe that there are even harder boots out there. The main sore areas after a skate session are on the points of my inside and outside ankle bones and the outside blades of my foot. I know my ankles are pressing hard because I can see the brown leather stains on my socks. Sometimes I have pain just underneath the blade of the foot. My toes, heels, and the soles of my feet are doing just fine. It's really really tempting at this point to have the ankles punched, but I'm afraid they'll punch out the wrong part of the boot. How do I ensure that they are going to target the area?

And get some ankle sleeves (gel sleeves) to wear under the boots. Oh, and you will learn to thank your lucky stars for toepicks as soon as you start skating backwards!

-I'll do a google search on the ankle sleeves. I figured out that the picks are good for stopping while going backwards.

[doubletoe]

-Yeah, these SP Teri boots are rock hard. I don't know the leather weight for a Pro SP Teri, but I push just about anywhere on the outside of the boot and it barely budges. It's hard to believe that there are even harder boots out there. The main sore areas after a skate session are on the points of my inside and outside ankle bones and the outside blades of my foot. I know my ankles are pressing hard because I can see the brown leather stains on my socks. Sometimes I have pain just underneath the blade of the foot. My toes, heels, and the soles of my feet are doing just fine. It's really really tempting at this point to have the ankles punched, but I'm afraid they'll punch out the wrong part of the boot. How do I ensure that they are going to target the area?

I'll do a google search on the ankle sleeves. I figured out that the picks are good for stopping while going backwards.[/QUOTE]

Yes, you should definitely get the ankles punched out. Now that you have skated in them for at least several hours, there should be some definite indentations inside the boot when you take your skates off. Take a felt pen and mark the inside of each boot, right where the indents are on either side of the ankle area. Then mark the outside of the boots in the same 4 places with a pencil. This will tell your boot pro exactly where to punch out the ankles. Trust me, it is SO worth it!

As for the gel ankle sleeves, most skate pro shops sell them. Two popular brands are Bunga and Silo. You should not cut the Bunga sleeves in half because you'll find that they'll be too short to protect your ankle at the top of the boot. But some of the Silo sleeves are made very long, where they will be just right if you cut one sleeve in half and use it for both ankles.

[flippet]

I have SPTeris, and I agree, they are ROCK hard, and YES, you should get them punched out. I'm the kind of person to try to break in my skates by only skating in them....but after a couple of weeks of skating in these, and the ankles hadn't started to mold to my ankles even a little bit, I relented and had them punched out. Ahh.....they were MUCH better after that.


A good pro knows where to punch them out, so you don't need to worry about that. If you still do though, I'd use little pieces of masking tape to mark the right spot, rather than a pen or pencil. Also...punching out doesn't 'damage' the boots...I know I was freaked out by the terminology right at first. All it does is compress the padding in the exact spot you need it, so that there's room for your ankle bones, and it helps with the molding process.

What, may I ask, is your skating level? I'm guessing you're a straight-up beginner, judging by the nature of all your questions? Reason I ask this it...the Teris you have seem to be a little bit 'too much' skate for you if you're just learning forward stroking. It's not that you'll never break them in, but you'll have a much harder time doing it, because you won't be 'using' your skates enough to break them in thoroughly for a while, until you learn and are practicing a few more skills. I would have started in a boot about one level down from those. By the time you acquire the skills to do justice to the higher level boots, the lower-level boots would maybe be on their last legs anyway--but maybe not, and you'd still get more life out of them. The 'problem' with a too-strong boot is not only the looooong time it takes to break them in, but they make learning skills properly harder than it needs to be, especially for a straight-up beginner.


As for the 'blade-of-foot' pain...do you mean under your arches, or along the outside edge of your foot? My Teris also give me some slight problems along the outside edge of my foot--I've figured out that they're just a hair too narrow there, and I should have gotten a split width boot. Next time, I will. You can also get that spot punched out, but depending on how far down the boot it is, it's pretty difficult to fit the stretchers down there. About all I can do about mine is to soak the boots silly, then wear them, which I'm not willing to do, and there's no guarantee it would do exactly what I'd need, anyway.

If it's your arches, you could be tying them too tight over the arch area. Try loosening just that area up and see if that helps. But during the break-in process, it's not unusual to have some discomfort there. If it doesn't go away as you break them in, perhaps you've got funny feet, and could use an orthotic or something.

[diagetus]

doubletoe
As for the gel ankle sleeves, most skate pro shops sell them. Two popular brands are Bunga and Silo. You should not cut the Bunga sleeves in half because you'll find that they'll be too short to protect your ankle at the top of the boot. But some of the Silo sleeves are made very long, where they will be just right if you cut one sleeve in half and use it for both ankles.

Thanks, for that helpful post doubletoe.


flippet


I have SPTeris, and I agree, they are ROCK hard, and YES, you should get them punched out. I'm the kind of person to try to break in my skates by only skating in them....but after a couple of weeks of skating in these, and the ankles hadn't started to mold to my ankles even a little bit, I relented and had them punched out. Ahh.....they were MUCH better after that.

After my third skating session I was really considering getting the boots punched. However, by the fourth session, the boots had miraculously loosened up. I only had a little bit of pain in the ankles and blade of the foot. I'm guessing my body also toughened up after the bruises healed. If I encounter less pain Saturday, I'll probably hold off and assume that the boots are conforming on schedule.

Unfortunately, the boot leather wasn't the only thing that loosened up. My blades were loose as well. I borrowed a screw driver from the skate rink shop and tightened them back myself. That's when I remembered reading about keeping an eye on the blades loosening during the first few sessions, but upon purchasing the skates, I had completely forgotten about it. Hopefully, I tightened the blades back the right way. I skated pretty well during the session, so I'm assuming they're roughly where they should be. Right now, there's only four screws for each blade. Perhaps there should be more. When I get time, I'll trace an outline around the blade so that if they do loosen up again I'll know where to place the blade.




What, may I ask, is your skating level? I'm guessing you're a straight-up beginner, judging by the nature of all your questions? Reason I ask this it...the Teris you have seem to be a little bit 'too much' skate for you if you're just learning forward stroking. It's not that you'll never break them in, but you'll have a much harder time doing it, because you won't be 'using' your skates enough to break them in thoroughly for a while, until you learn and are practicing a few more skills.

Yes, you're right I'm just a beginner at this. The fitter knew I was just a beginner, but she felt that I should have a higher level boot because of the practice time I would be putting in. I told her 2-3 sessions per week, but for now I'll probably do 3-4 until I get comfortable in the boots and can do some preliminary level moves well. I haven't tested, but here are some skills that I can do comfortably (if not with proper form).

-Backwards skate both legs (duck walk style)
-Backwards skate right leg (power stroke style)
-T-Stop both legs
-Snow Plow
-Hockey Stop both legs
-Backwards Toe Pick Stop - (don't know the proper name)
-Backwards T-Stop both legs
-Shoot the Duck (well, still having trouble getting back up on one leg)
-Quarter of a circle on all eight edges. (circle is one my body length)
-Back Inside Pivot
I have a slight bit of weakness on my left inside edge, but it's nothing that practice can't fix.

I'm working on change of edge and edge turns right now. After that, two legged spins. Is this about the right order of learning the fundamentals?


As for the 'blade-of-foot' pain...do you mean under your arches, or along the outside edge of your foot?

I mean the outside edge of the foot.


I've figured out that they're just a hair too narrow there, and I should have gotten a split width boot. Next time, I will.

Interesting, never heard of a split width. Is that like a "combination boot" that I hear skaters talking about?


If it's your arches, you could be tying them too tight over the arch area.

No, my arches are doing well. It's just my ankle points and the outside edge of my foot. I know I keep complaining about the soreness from boots, but I have so much fun while skating that the pain isn't really noticeable until I stop. Overall, I do like these boots.

[icedancer2]

Unfortunately, the boot leather wasn't the only thing that loosened up. My blades were loose as well. I borrowed a screw driver from the skate rink shop and tightened them back myself. That's when I remembered reading about keeping an eye on the blades loosening during the first few sessions, but upon purchasing the skates, I had completely forgotten about it. Hopefully, I tightened the blades back the right way. I skated pretty well during the session, so I'm assuming they're roughly where they should be. Right now, there's only four screws for each blade. Perhaps there should be more. When I get time, I'll trace an outline around the blade so that if they do loosen up again I'll know where to place the blade.


Four screws is called a temporary mounting. When they first attach the blade to the boot they only put in a few screws just in case they have to move the blade for some reason (sometimes the blade needs to be moved slightly if it doesn't flow straight, pulls to one side, scrapes, etc.) You should bring the boots back to the person who mounted the blades and have them do a "permanent mounting". They will put in a couple more screws and sometimes they will put a silacone gel over the screws and into the gaps between the boot and blade to make things more secure.

[flippet]

Four screws is called a temporary mounting. When they first attach the blade to the boot they only put in a few screws just in case they have to move the blade for some reason (sometimes the blade needs to be moved slightly if it doesn't flow straight, pulls to one side, scrapes, etc.) You should bring the boots back to the person who mounted the blades and have them do a "permanent mounting". They will put in a couple more screws and sometimes they will put a silacone gel over the screws and into the gaps between the boot and blade to make things more secure.


Yep. Also, you don't really want all the holes filled with screws. If you want or need to later change the mounting slightly, or if a screw hole gets stripped and won't hold the screw anymore, you have a few spots left to use.

Yes, a split width boot is a combination size boot. This is when you have, let's say, an A width heel, and a B width ball, or some such.

-Backwards Toe Pick Stop - (don't know the proper name)

:D That's because this isn't a proper move. Once you know proper ways to stop, and can do them well, this one should drop off your 'repertoire'. I hope you're getting coaching, even just in group lessons. A coach will help you learn things in the proper order (where skills build on each other), and help you with form, and hopefully keep you from developing bad habits.

As far as boot strength being related to how often you skate.....well, it really means less than what level you're skating at. There's not a whole lot of difference in 2 hours a week of forward swizzles, and 5 hours a week of forward swizzles. Now, if you were doing double jumps, then yes, there's a bit of difference between 2 hours and 5 hours. If I were fitting boots, I'd look at a person's level first and foremost, and only use hours of ice time as a last factor. The only exception I'd make is if you're either a rather tall, heavy person, or if your shoes tend to look like they've been attacked by a steamroller after only a few weeks--then I might recommend a stronger boot than might otherwise be called for.

Well, it's not that you'll never break these in--but you will want to be diligent about it, that's for sure! :)

[diagetus]

Four screws is called a temporary mounting. When they first attach the blade to the boot they only put in a few screws just in case they have to move the blade for some reason (sometimes the blade needs to be moved slightly if it doesn't flow straight, pulls to one side, scrapes, etc.) You should bring the boots back to the person who mounted the blades and have them do a "permanent mounting". They will put in a couple more screws and sometimes they will put a silacone gel over the screws and into the gaps between the boot and blade to make things more secure.

and

flippet
Yep. Also, you don't really want all the holes filled with screws. If you want or need to later change the mounting slightly, or if a screw hole gets stripped and won't hold the screw anymore, you have a few spots left to use.

Well, geez-luiz. I wish someone from the rink had told be about it. No one told me when I picked up the boots and my fitter didn't say a word. I did ask if anything more needed to be done. So I guess I need to bring the boots back in. I did read about there being a temporary mounting, but I could have sworn the text said three screws (to make the temp setup obvious) instead of four. Hopefully, the permanent mounting shouldn't take long. As far as one blade pulling to the outside or inside....I just don't know. I'm assuming the blades are ok because I can go forward just fine. Edge change is possible on both legs. This sounds like something where I should get a coach to watch me before I get the permanent mounting.


flippet
Once you know proper ways to stop, and can do them well, this one should drop off your 'repertoire'. I hope you're getting coaching, even just in group lessons. A coach will help you learn things in the proper order (where skills build on each other), and help you with form, and hopefully keep you from developing bad habits.

LOL, I see. I guess that isn't a move I should brag about. :roll:

As far as coaching, even though there are many coaches, I've only had time to watch one. I'm not sure if he does group lessons or not. Through the grapevine, I heard this guy is pretty good. He was a dancer in the ice-capades or something. The group lessons for the rink were listed at $48.00 (Snowplow-Basic 2) for a four week session, then it shoots up to $120.00 for an 8 week session for Basic 3 - Freestyle 6. The lesson costs don't seem too bad. Have you guys seen anything lower?


If I were fitting boots, I'd look at a person's level first and foremost, and only use hours of ice time as a last factor. The only exception I'd make is if you're either a rather tall, heavy person, or if your shoes tend to look like they've been attacked by a steamroller after only a few weeks--then I might recommend a stronger boot than might otherwise be called for.

Interesting. I can see what you're saying. Heavy moves will do more damage than light moves. I can do light moves all day long and the boot will never wear in. As far as my height and weight. Well....let's just put it this way; a lot of people mistake me for Fabio. - Just kidding. :D My weight is under 150 and my height is about 5'10". The double jumps are far from me at this point in time. I believe singles are within reach for some of the jumps (next 4-5 months). The fitter may have given me the tougher boot because I think I made a big fuss about not wanting to buy another pair of boots for a long time. The hard leather sole will allow blade upgrades, while many of the plastic sole boots don't have that capability.

[flippet]

The fitter may have given me the tougher boot because I think I made a big fuss about not wanting to buy another pair of boots for a long time. The hard leather sole will allow blade upgrades, while many of the plastic sole boots don't have that capability.

Oh, I'm sure that's why you got the stiffer boot. Some fitters don't care all that much whether you really know what you want/need or not--if you say you want a stiffer (and more expensive) boot, hey, they're happy to sell it to you. It's the rare beginner who understands exactly why they need the boot they need---parents keep trying to buy their kids boots two sizes too big, so they can 'grow into them', or wear two thick pairs of socks for 'warmth', and adults get sticker shock, so there's quite a lot of people not getting quite what they need, and as a result, thinking that either they 'can't skate', or that skating just isn't the sport for them--when if they had the proper equipment for their specific needs, things might go a lot better.

Just about every one of us here will tell you that discovering the 'perfect' boot/blade for you is all about trial and error....sometimes a lot of trial and error.

As far as the sole allowing blade upgrades--well, yes, any quality boot will have a leather sole and will allow this. (Although, skaters tend to upgrade/replace boots much more often than they upgrade/replace blades. Blades tend to last longer in general.) It's really just the 'recreational' level skate that will have a plastic sole and riveted blade, and that's definitely not what you want. It's' just that you jumped from 'recreational' to 'extra-serious', skipping over the levels in between. Now, don't get me wrong--it's not that I don't think you can work with these boots. You seem serious enough to give it the ol' college try, and it's not that they're completely beyond your level--but they are at the upper edges of it. Understand that if you're having difficulty with a move or two, it may be harder because of your stiff boots, and you'll just have to try harder than you might otherwise. If you're a fast learner though, it may be less of a problem for you than it might be for someone else.

I do highly recommend group lessons, however. Those prices sound very reasonable. If you really expect to learn to know what you're doing, you'll need lessons....teaching yourself really won't get you very far.

[luna_skater]

(Although, skaters tend to upgrade/replace boots much more often than they upgrade/replace blades. Blades tend to last longer in general.)

Interesting that you say that, because my experience is the exact opposite! Although, I suppose it does depend what you are using the skates for. I know more synchro skaters than free-skaters. Since synchro skaters aren't beating our skates up with big jumps, we usually wear out the blade first.

[*IceDancer1419*]

Really. Hrm. Cuz, a lot of times synchro boots get mighty scuffed from all those teammates! ;) :roll: though i guess that's just the outside, so it's no big deal. I think I'll be going through more boots than blades, myself... not because I do spectacular jumps, but I think I'm hard on my boots.

Which is saying something for a girl who's 5'5" and weighs around 105 :roll:

[diagetus]

flippet
-Yeah, it's a possibility that the fitter didn't want to argue about the boot type, but she never suggested anything softer. I just assumed we were in agreement. I'll keep in mind the extra practice needed to manuever in a stiffer boot. I'm pretty set on doing lessons, now that I've read your post and read the input of others. This seems like an activity that requires coaching to reach anything beyond a beginner level.

Interesting difference in opinion on what part of the skate wears down first. Based on the two posts by Luna_skater and IceDance1419, it looks like the blades or the boots could wear out first depending on how you skate. A light skater might wear out the blade first, while a heavy skater would need new boots. I've been watching skaters at my rink for a couple months now and I think I'm starting to see which skaters are heavy and which ones are light. IMHO There isn't always a direct correlation between body weight and heavy skating, but it does seem to play a part.

[*IceDancer1419*]

My coach was worried when i was getting SP Teris that I'd be too skinny/light for them... but I've only had them a month and the tongues are seriously creasing, and they get too loose after a bit and I have to retie them... I'd *like* to think it's because I'm bending my knees, but... ;) :roll:

It ain't the jumps, I'll tell ya taht ;) I'm still working on a salchow :P :lol:

[luna_skater]

Really. Hrm. Cuz, a lot of times synchro boots get mighty scuffed from all those teammates! ;) :roll: though i guess that's just the outside, so it's no big deal.

Yep, exactly. Those are just flesh wounds!

I would also suspect that a skater who likes VERY sharp blades would wear out blades faster than boots, from getting them sharpened frequently.

[phoenix]

Just had to share a cute little story about getting boots punched out.....

I have an 8 year old student who just got her first pair of really good boots. They were hurting her ankles, so in her lesson I told her to get them punched out, & explained that they take a big tool to push out the area around her ankles. She got a very troubled look on her face and said in a very small voice, "will it hurt a lot?" She was immensely relieved to find out it was the BOOTS that got punched out, not her ankles!! :lol:

[Casey]

Just had to share a cute little story about getting boots punched out.....
AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAAAHAAAAAA thank you sooooo much for sharing that! That's by far the most amusing thing I've heard in a month, at least!!! Oh man, I'm just dying with laughter... ROFLMAO that's great. :lol:

[diagetus]

LOL. Now that's some funny stuff. I can just see her Bambi eyes looking up at the coach. You really could have capitalized on this situation and scared the coodies out of her, but you took the nice route. I respect that. :D I probably shouldn't laugh, considering some of my statements on this forum are probably comical to the experienced skater.

[*IceDancer1419*]

Awwww that is SO cute!!! And so funny! awww!