Coaches, bless em

[Figureskates]

Reading the coach's jab thread made me think, these folks really have a high level of tolerance and patience.

Can you imagine watching hours of sometimes horrific skating, day after day after day.

Ask yourself, could you watch "Plan 9 from Outer Space" 6 hours a day 6 days a week?

I think they use these jabs as a form of comic relief so that they don't go completely around the bend.

[froggy]

I whole heartly agree! I actually tried teaching a couple of my friends to move around the ice and boy what is frusturating!!! I must say coaches must have a such a high level of patience with us cheers to them!! And I must add that my coach is very generous with her praise, she's always noticing even the itty bitty bits of improvement, it's really nice and it's a great motivator for me to work extra hard.

[yorkie]

I agree with that one too. I have tried coaching a few of my friends and its fine if they try, but when they dont and just moan, it gets so fusturating! My coach said to me that she likes coaching me because we talk and with the little ones, they just stare up at her blankly. But, coachs must have so much patience. I think it must be very rewarding though. My coach is always saying how much I am improving recently and its just nice to know that your improving even just a little bit.

Hannah xXx

[jazzpants]

Yeap! Particularly my primary coach! We've been together for many MANY years! The best way to sum up my relationship was a dialog we had once after my having a really :frus: bad lesson. He was teaching someone else when I skated by...

Coach: "Don't worry! I still love you!!!" (Comes up and hugs me.)
Me: "I still love you too!"

And I've kept at it... especially lately since I got the sense now (especially from my secondary coach) that my chances of passing the Bronze Moves test this year isn't very likely b/c there's still a LOT I have to work on (both on and off ice) to get to the point where I will pass it. (Let's just say it ain't easy being an adult skater.) :frus:

[MannyisHOT]

i always never get mad at my coach when she yells at me because i wouldnt be able to stand watching me skate for so long

[dbny]

I've been watching the "coach's jabs" thread with some interest. I rely on my coach to have me feeling more positive about my skating when I leave the lesson than when I start it. I would dump a coach who jabbed me in any way whatsoever, jokingly or not. My sensitive ego can't take it. As a matter of fact, there is a little something going on with my coach right now that has me thinking about bolting. I've decided it's her problem and not mine, but I just have to wait and see at this point.

[coskater64]

My coach made the point that, the day she stopped complaining was the day I should get another coach because it would mean she didn't care. I found this to be a very truthful statement and one she mentions when I start to freak out near competitions and especially near tests.

:lol:

[aussieskater]

I'd have to agree with all the posters who said it would be so hard watching poor skating hour after hour, day after day.

While I'd *like* to know I'm improving, I *need* to know which one (of too many things) is most urgently in need of work. If the only way my coach can get the message through the skull bone is to needle a little, then so be it.

Of course, there are some coaches who take it too far, but coaches are for the most part in it for the love of the sport, and they genuinely want us to improve. (For sure, if I was my coach, I'd really want to see some improvement!!) And even if he needles me during the lesson, he is nearly always nice about it (I find it's hard to be offended when you're laughing your head off), and he always finds something nice at the end, so I leave the lesson with a good taste in my mouth.

[nerd_on_ice]

I definitely count on my coach to boost my morale (and she does it, too) but I imagine we "older skaters" (teens & adults) give our coaches a boost as well. Most of my coach's other skaters are between 4 and 9 years old (I am 32 and she has another adult in her 40s); she sometimes remarks how grateful she is to be working with someone who can understand and follow instructions/corrections--and take a joke!

Of course, I usually start laughing and wisecracking about my skating even before she does. :lol:

[windsor]

Sometimes I have felt as if my coach only bothered to put up with me because of the money, unfortunately. I think she is a great coach, but I found her overall attitude about adult skaters to be rather unkind. I always thought it was unfair, because why couldn't she respect the fact that adult skaters are in it because they love it? She obviously loves the sport or she wouldn't be so involved in it. But, I never felt she respected my interest in the sport very much.

She was not the only coach I had who seemed to take me less seriously because I was an adult skater. A couple who would forget to show up for my lessons. Also, she would sometimes be watching her kids while she was coaching me. And, she made derogatory comments about adult skaters and the comps, etc.

She just never seemed to get that I wanted to progress and test and have a program and maybe compete. She never encouraged it much. I'm mature enough to encourage myself and that's what I did and got support from my other skater friends, but her support and encouragement and a little bit of enthusiasm from her would have really helped. She had her days - I do remember her saying something encouraging once when I was concerned about being too old to participate in the sport, but I only remember that one time.

From looking at the info on the USFS site about AN and the comp in Europe, it looks like maybe Adult Skating is really on the upswing and maybe the prevailing attitudes that I've received from coaches, judges, parents and other skaters in general about adult skaters are changing. I hope so. And even if it doesn't change, it still won't stop me from skating and loving it.

[sue123]

My coach is actually pretty great. She coaches all ages, from really young to a woman in her 60's I think. When she has me working on swizzles, she used to tell me I need to make them symmetrical, that means like a lemon. I looked at her and told her I know what symmetrical meant, adn then she realized she could use "big" words with me. Although I think she still coaches me like she does her younger students, which I really appreciate. It kinda shows that she thinks there is some hope for me. And that I'm not above common sense.

[dbny]

I definitely count on my coach to boost my morale (and she does it, too) but I imagine we "older skaters" (teens & adults) give our coaches a boost as well. Most of my coach's other skaters are between 4 and 9 years old (I am 32 and she has another adult in her 40s); she sometimes remarks how grateful she is to be working with someone who can understand and follow instructions/corrections--and take a joke!


I'm not an advanced skater, so I only coach Basic Skills, but I definitely enjoy teaching the adults at least as much as the kids. I find the adults need more confidence building than the kids in order to try something new. For example, I recently started some of students on F and B crossovers. The kids couldn't wait to try it, and of course, needed a lot of guidance and correction. The adults, OTOH, were scared to even try, so I had them first glide on each edge to be used. Then I pointed out how stable they were on those edges, and that all they had to do was add the crossover. I also give the adults more detail before asking them to try new things. The level of detail the adults want and need is usually more than the kids are ready to absorb. I take the adults to the wall and have them cross over there and pick up the crossed toe (tuck it) so they won't catch the toe pick on F crossovers. That's almost a useless exercise with the kids though. I enjoy providing the kind of detail that the adults need and want, and find teaching them, in general, to be more intellectually stimulating.

[Casey]

I'm kind of the opposite of dbny...I prefer a coach to tell me what I'm doing stupid and be a bit hard on me. If a coach tells me something I'm doing looks like <insert something unappealing here>, then I will surely be trying to follow her advice on how to do it correctly more. My old coach was really nice, and would always say I was doing well, improving on this or that, and so on; and that I should be less hard on myself. She was a great coach, and I'll still be taking occasional lessons from her, but I think in my next coach I'm going to look for somebody a bit harder. Yes, I like hearing when something has improved, but it should be a brief mention, followed by a list of what I'm still doing wrong with mutterings about what an idiot I am for not getting that yet. :P

I think there's a big difference between playful jabs or taunts and the sort of thing that windsor has gotten though, which I would say is age-based discrimination. I wouldn't put up with that...

[Thin-Ice]

My coach is amazingly patient!!! We have been together for more than 13 years.. and she says we'll still be working together when all her other students have left and we're both in our 80s (she is a few years younger than I am). The worst thing she's ever said to me is "I'm not sure you'll ever get that jump (or spin or footwork) .. but we'll keep on trying"... and she says it with a smile. We DO keep after "it" and amazingly enough after a few weeks/months/years.. "it" is recognizable.. and works its way into my programs... and eventually I wonder what the big deal was.

She also understands when I am stuck on my commute to her (the rink where she teaches is 2 hours away from my house.. and sometimes I get stuck in traffic). She doesn't even charge me for that time, even though she's just sitting there at the rink WAITING for me to show up.

The greatest test of her loyalty was this season. I HATE doing bunny hops.. but she put one in my footwork. I managed to trip on the toe pick (no surprise) and fall right onto my knee... that was painful but I was fine; we didn't do much more than spins and stroking the rest of the lesson. The following week when I came in for my lesson, my knee wasn't too sore, but my brain FLAT OUT REFUSED to do a bunny hop at any time, anywhere on the ice. She was sooooo good: she took one hand and let me hold onto the railing with the other and we did bunny hops (well more like really bad limping) around the rink. :oops: My eyes are tearing-up, my brain is screaming "NO!!!!!" and she's still there speaking in a soothing voice telling me "You'll get over this, we'll just keep going around and around until you're ready to let go of the wall." After that she still held my hand while I did a bunny hop, then another, then another.. until I was still scared to do them.. but I could manage them unassisted.. I just couldn't do it in the footwork. But she insisted it stay in the footwork.. and we kept working on it. I have to say when I did that footwork at AN this year, and I managed something that resembed a bunny hop all I could think was "Thank you for getting me to this point!". I looked at the video and while it may not be a big deal to anyone else, getting through my qualifying round without giving up on anything INCLUDING that bunny hop was my biggest victory of the year.

My coach did have one other "tough" comment this week. I had to fight really awful traffic to get to the rink after a really BAD week at work.. so my lesson only went 30-minutes. Normally, we would have just continued on through the public session.. but she said "You know, this is as ragged as I've ever seen you. I don't think we should finish this lesson. We'll just pick it up at your next one". She is SUCH a sweetie!!! :bow: :bow: :bow: She says she really likes teaching adults because we can ask intelligent questions and still have fun. She is very supportive but also knows how to motivate me.. when and how to push, when to let things slide (a bit) and when to get me to try "just one more time" and to focus on just one or two of my problems at a time, so I don't get completely overwhelmed. I'm having. I'm so lucky to have her as my primary coach.

[singerskates]

Sometimes I have felt as if my coach only bothered to put up with me because of the money, unfortunately. I think she is a great coach, but I found her overall attitude about adult skaters to be rather unkind. I always thought it was unfair, because why couldn't she respect the fact that adult skaters are in it because they love it? She obviously loves the sport or she wouldn't be so involved in it. But, I never felt she respected my interest in the sport very much.

She was not the only coach I had who seemed to take me less seriously because I was an adult skater. A couple who would forget to show up for my lessons. Also, she would sometimes be watching her kids while she was coaching me. And, she made derogatory comments about adult skaters and the comps, etc.

She just never seemed to get that I wanted to progress and test and have a program and maybe compete. She never encouraged it much. I'm mature enough to encourage myself and that's what I did and got support from my other skater friends, but her support and encouragement and a little bit of enthusiasm from her would have really helped. She had her days - I do remember her saying something encouraging once when I was concerned about being too old to participate in the sport, but I only remember that one time.

From looking at the info on the USFS site about AN and the comp in Europe, it looks like maybe Adult Skating is really on the upswing and maybe the prevailing attitudes that I've received from coaches, judges, parents and other skaters in general about adult skaters are changing. I hope so. And even if it doesn't change, it still won't stop me from skating and loving it.

Dito!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bow:

[Chico]

I want an honest coach. If something isn't right I want to know! I can't change what I don't know. However, you can correct me without making me feel bad. I try, but I still make mistakes even so. I want to be taken seriously, but as an adult I only have so much time for this sport. I have many other commitments besides my skating. Skating is a special part of my life, not my life. I want my coach to treat me kindly, with respect, push me as a skater, and listen to me. I try to treat my coach with the same. Skating is a relationship fostered by both skater and coach. Feeling positive and having an understanding of yourself as a skater makes you develop. Funny little comments can be cute, but they need to be said in a way that the skater doesn't walk away from a lesson feeling less as a person. This is a fine line in my book.

Chico

[windsor]

I HATE doing bunny hops..

I'm totally with you on that! I can do all my jumps (singles, of course!) up to a Lutz, but I STILL prefer not to do that darn bunny hop. It just seems MADE to catch on the toe pick, doesn't it? And, then there's nowhere to go but onto your knee!

I sure wish I had your coach.....Lucky skater, you!

My coach wasn't ALL bad, though. She would go over time with me (though, I think we spent more time chatting than skating, sometimes). And, she could be encouraging (she told me once she never thought I'd get a scratch spin, but she didn't tell me until I'd been doing it for quite a while. She'd kept her doubts about my abilities to herself). She had her good days and bad days, just like anyone else. I just wanted more from her....like a program...and sitting down with me and making goals for each season, including tests and comps that I might be interested in doing, like she did with her kids. I asked for those things, but didn't get them. I guess I should have been more pro-active and really pushed the issue. I was always afraid of her talking about me behind my back (she has a tendency to do that) and making fun of my aspirations. Oh, so stupid of me! Who cares what she said to others? Or what she thought! Maybe if I'd shown a little more confidence and desire in my skating she would eventually have had more respect for me as a skater and then would have realized I wanted to take my skating more seriously.

So, obviously, it is a two way street. I guess I should have indicated more, myself, how seriously I wanted to take it. But, I allowed my own lack of confidence to run the show.

That lack of confidence will do you in every time, I tell ya. Whether it is in skating or otherwise!

[Thin-Ice]

Hey Windsor --

You don't have to wait for someone else to give you a list of goals. Every year after AN I give my coach a list of my goals for the coming year.. and then she tells me which ones she thinks we should work on first. This year I achieved 3 of the 4.. so one carries over and I've added two more for next year. I figure if I don't know what I want to work on and/or if she doesn't know what we're working towards I'm not ever likely to get what I want out of this sport. (And I REALLY have to work at anything I want to achieve when it comes to athletics.) But the bunny hop is still in there, because she thinks I will overcome my strong dislike of it someday. It's probably one of the few things we will never agree on -- but if that's the worst of it, I'd say things are working VERY well.

I also choose my own music and bring it in already cut so all she has to do is choreograph programs. If she doesn't like what I've chosen, she'll tell me what she doesn't like about it and suggest some alternatives. Usually though, she's relieved because she doesn't have to find music for me and I'm happy because I know I have music I can listen to for 10,000+ run-throughs without getting bored with it (or if I do, it's my own fault). And my coach will tell me if she thinks it's time I've moved on because I've had a program too long, or if she thinks I should hold on to a program another season or half-season.

I also tell her when I want to compete or test -- and she tells me if she thinks that's reasonable... so it's a real give-and-take relationship. You're right.. I AM very lucky! :lol:

[skaternum]

You don't have to wait for someone else to give you a list of goals. Every year after AN I give my coach a list of my goals for the coming year.. and then she tells me which ones she thinks we should work on first.Agreed. This is exactly what I do, too. I make my own list and proactively take it to her. My list includes four categories:

New Tricks for Old Dog
Existing Things to Work On
Tests To Take
Competitions To Do


If there's something she feels strongly about, we discuss and add or deleted as necessary. But usually it's my list of goals. I keep a copy of it in my skatebag, posted on my bulletin board at home, and posted in my cube at work.

I also choose my own music and bring it in already cut so all she has to do is choreograph programs. If she doesn't like what I've chosen, she'll tell me what she doesn't like about it and suggest some alternatives.Once again this is exactly what I do. If I'm not sure about the "skateability" of a piece or if I want help choosing between multiple pieces, I'll get her input in advance. Otherwise, it's all my baby.

One of my pet peeves is adult skaters letting their coaches push them around or treat them like crap. By being an adult skater, we already have so many things going against us; the ability to make decisions and know what we want is one of the few things we have going for us. I say -- use those abilities. I have adult skating friends whose coaches have complete control over their skating, including music, competitions they're allowed to do, what they wear, who they can partner with, etc. One friends wants desperately (I mean, REALLY BADLY) to do a waltz as part of her freedance, but her coach doesn't personally like waltzes, so she's been told no. And my friend just complains about it sometimes to us, but won't dare question her coach. It just boggles my mind.

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now. No, wait. I just have to say it one more time ... ADULT SKATERS: STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES. DON'T TAKE CRAP FROM YOUR COACHES. IF THEY DON'T RESPECT YOU, MOVE ON.

Okay, sorry. I feel better now. Please forgive the rant.

[NoVa Sk8r]

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now. No, wait. I just have to say it one more time ... ADULT SKATERS: STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES. DON'T TAKE CRAP FROM YOUR COACHES. IF THEY DON'T RESPECT YOU, MOVE ON.

Okay, sorry. I feel better now. Please forgive the rant.Great advice, skaternum! Let's hope more adults follow your words of wisdom ....

[jenlyon60]

My coach lets me have pretty much input (within reason) into what I think needs worked on (e.g. which dances for test, which dances for competition). I usually make a list of technique/power oriented stuff that I want to tackle and discuss it with him also.

For example, he has this drill nicknamed the "dreaded 8's" that he has all his kids do (similar to the MIF power circles only the circle can stay the same size. Think of doing 2 crossovers with each edge held for 8 counts, then 4 crossovers with each edge held for 4 counts, then 8 crossovers with each edge held for 2 counts, then 16 crossovers with each edge held for a single count. Do all this, then repeat once or twice. Then change from CCW forward to CW forward. Then CCW backwards, then CW backwards... by the way during the whole drill, at first, coach is counting the tempo). I watched some of them working on it, and decided I needed to do it too. So now we're working it into my "beginning of lesson" a couple times a week. (PS NoVaSk8r... the forwards version of the "dreaded 8s" would be an excellent drill for your forward crossovers.)

Sometimes for competition he'll overrule me, but a lot of times there's good reasons -- for example, in the various Pro-Am dance competitions, there are often limits on how many competitors in an age group/test level event a single coach can have, so my coach works hard to de-conflict like-level/age skaters so that we all have equal treatment. I like challenges and don't mind finishing last most of the time, so I'm usually willing to skate up if the dances for the next higher level (currently pre-gold) are dances I think I can hack through (i.e. no Killian attempts yet).

So far on my summer "to-do" list, other than training and hopefully passing the Tango, I have on my list... starting to re-train American Waltz solo, working on swing rocker turns (e.g. Rocker Foxtrot), and proper twizzles (I fool around with twizzles every once in awhile, but they're more halting double 3's than true twizzles.)

[blue111moon]

My coach is a SAINT. She'd have to be to put up with me since 1989. She coaches positively - almost never says something was bad. Every correction is a positive statement: "Stretch the free leg out to the side" "look up at the No Smoking sign" "A little more speed would be nice." Most of her corrections are so gentle that I don't even know how I make them until suddenly the move comes together. She got me to do a half-decent layback that way, which I vowed I'd never do, because just tipping my head back to look at the ceiling makes me dizzy, never mind doing it while spinning.

That said, I do pick and cut my own music (or wrangle a friend into doing it for me!). I do my own outfits and choreography is a collaborative effort between us - mostly she suggests things that I can't do and I adapt them into something I can do to the music. I think I h ave a better sense of music and timing than she does but we work with our strengths. :)

[windsor]

I think sometimes it is hard for any skater, adult or otherwise, to stand up to their coach if they aren't all that knowledgeable about skating. I mean, even if the skater thinks he is knowledgeable about the sport, sometimes he can't be sure since he didn't necessarily grow up in it. Sometimes the coach has been a part of the sport for as long as or longer than the skater might have been alive. And, if the skater doesn't have really any else around who is at his level (Adult or whatever), how can he really know what he is supposed to do? Or what makes sensible goals? What would make an appropriate program? A person learns, naturally, but all of that can take some time, especially when trying to go it alone. When I started skating, I didn't even know about the adult track or anything.

Anyway, I did give my coach music for a program once. But, it never came. And, I didn't want to bother her because I knew she was trying to prepare programs for her kids who were participating in Regionals/Sectionals and all that.

PLUS, actually, although I wanted more from her as a coach, and that feeling continued to grow, I was afraid I wouldn't be able to find another coach who could work with my schedule (she was great about that) or who would even be willing to coach me at all or at least show up for lessons. I'd been through worse coaches before and I actually felt thankful that she'd continue to coach me at all and show up for lessons.

It can be hard to stand up for yourself when you feel like an intruder in the first place!

But, you guys are really letting me feel that, if there's a next time, I will DEFINITELY find my voice and let my coach hear it!! :)

[Casey]

For example, he has this drill nicknamed the "dreaded 8's" that he has all his kids do (similar to the MIF power circles only the circle can stay the same size. Think of doing 2 crossovers with each edge held for 8 counts, then 4 crossovers with each edge held for 4 counts, then 8 crossovers with each edge held for 2 counts, then 16 crossovers with each edge held for a single count. Do all this, then repeat once or twice. Then change from CCW forward to CW forward. Then CCW backwards, then CW backwards...

That is the best thing ever. I am soooooo trying that today... :D

[jenlyon60]

Tell me what you think of the transition from the super quick "16 single count crossovers" back to the SLOOOOW-MOOO 8+8 count crossovers. ....

I find the "hold for 8 counts, cross, hold for 8 counts" to be the longest dang 16 counts of my life...

[skaternum]

I think sometimes it is hard for any skater, adult or otherwise, to stand up to their coach if they aren't all that knowledgeable about skating. I mean, even if the skater thinks he is knowledgeable about the sport, sometimes he can't be sure since he didn't necessarily grow up in it. Sometimes the coach has been a part of the sport for as long as or longer than the skater might have been alive. And, if the skater doesn't have really any else around who is at his level (Adult or whatever), how can he really know what he is supposed to do? Or what makes sensible goals? What would make an appropriate program? A person learns, naturally, but all of that can take some time, especially when trying to go it alone. When I started skating, I didn't even know about the adult track or anything.Well, I'm not suggesting that Basic Skillers get all bossy with their coaches. ;) Obviously, when we first start out in the sport, we don't have a clue what's gonig on. But by the time we get to where we're taking private lessons, we're involved enough to need to know what's what. We pay a LOT of money to participate in this hobby -- why would we want to just shell out all these bucks with no idea what's going on? This is where you put your adult brain to work and get knowledge about the sport you're in. You get a rulebook and read it. You go online and find out about adult skating. You hang out in places like here and see what people are doing at various levels. In other words, exactly what you're doing now.

Yes, it's easier for people who are naturally assertive, but I look at it my relationship with my coach as both (1)coach/student and (2)service provider/customer. I'm not paying if I'm not consistently getting the service I deserve. For $75 an hour, I'd better be treated with respect. Smart coaches know that adults are the long-term steady income. We take so d*** long to learn everything, we'll be there for decades. :)

Anyway, I did give my coach music for a program once. But, it never came. And, I didn't want to bother her because I knew she was trying to prepare programs for her kids who were participating in Regionals/Sectionals and all that.But what about after she was finished with doing their programs?

It can be hard to stand up for yourself when you feel like an intruder in the first place!How can being a skater = being an intruder? Unless you have some major self-esteem issues that make you think that way, the environment there sounds toxic. Run away!

But, you guys are really letting me feel that, if there's a next time, I will DEFINITELY find my voice and let my coach hear it!!!To quote from the 1970s, fight The Man! Ha ha. Seriously, stand up for yourself. Being aggressive is bad, but being assertive is good. You deserve just as much respect and attention as any other skater on the ice. You go, girl! Um, or boy. I'm bad about remembering gender with posters whose names don't imply gender. Hi, Casey! :oops:

[Thin-Ice]

I make my own list and proactively take it to her. My list includes four categories:

New Tricks for Old Dog
Existing Things to Work On
Tests To Take
Competitions To Do


If there's something she feels strongly about, we discuss and add or deleted as necessary. But usually it's my list of goals. I keep a copy of it in my skatebag, posted on my bulletin board at home, and posted in my cube at work.



I LOVE your list categories!!! And it's good to know I'm not the only one who has copies of "the list" in several places. I'm not sure I would be brave enough to put it in my cubicle at work (mostly because someone would tear it down... we have to share desks so the dayside people have a tendency to "rearrange" whatever they don't like. (GRRRRR!!!)) I also keep a logbook of what I've worked on, and suggestions/exercises from my coaches. I have a copy of this year's list on the front and back inside covers of my logbook.

And I don't think that was an actual rant.. I think it was just really great advice for adult skaters.

I can understand how a coach should direct an adult skater to start with, (i.e. I don't think a new to skating adult should come in and say I'd like to start working on doubles, but I don't need to know how to actually skate/stroke) but as soon as we have a clue to what we want to do, we really should act like adults, not little kids. Isn't that the advantage of being adults? We certainly get all the baggage that goes with being an adult: the occasional lack of respect, the realization this can be a dangerous undertaking, the fear factor, the lack of fluidity, etc. (I can't imagine turning my hobby completely over to someone else no matter how good a coach s/he is! After all, I'm the one spending the money/time/energy and recovering from the bruises and brain freeze!)

Windsor, it sounds like you totally deserve a coach who respects you and your ideas. But you also need to remember you are the paying customer. My coach and I are friends more than employee/employer -- but if you don't have that relationship yet, please remember you wouldn't (or shouldn't) let a doctor/tutor/waiter treat you that way and then expect to pay the bill in full, would you?

Only you can know what you want to achieve from this crazy sport. Good luck on finding that perfect match! I think it's harder to find a coach you really click with than it is to find a good date.. but it is SO worth the effort and time because you're going to spend the time and money anyway, you may as well make it a worthwhile investment!

[Casey]

Tell me what you think of the transition from the super quick "16 single count crossovers" back to the SLOOOOW-MOOO 8+8 count crossovers. ....
Very good exercise :D

[CanAmSk8ter]

As a young coach who often works with adults both privately and in group settings, I'm getting a lot of out this thread. So thanks to whoever it was that started it. ;)

My feeling is that if you don't necessarily agree with what your coach wants (or doesn't want) you to do, ask why! I know sometimes my students say they think I'm having them move on before they've mastered something, but I do that because elements at the beginning tend to build on and complement each other. For example, I often introduce mohawks before three-turns are truly "there", because a) mohawks often take longer to learn and therefore I think it's good to introduce them as soon as the skater is ready, and b) occasionally, someone finds mohawks easier and it helps the forward to backward transition on the three-turn to "click". When I explain this, students usually understand, but I can see why it might be confusing to have a coach say, "Ok, let's try something new" when you're thinking, "I can't even do this right!"

The bottom line is, I'm always happy to explain why I teach something the way I do, and if a student has questions or concerns about why I teach something a certain way or at a certain time, I'm always open to explaining and discuss my reasons. That's how my coach teaches me, and that's why I like taking from him- I'm not just learning how to skate, I'm learning about skating, and it's going to make me a better skater and a better instructor. That's the kind of coach I want to be.

[samba]

I have known my coach since she was 9 when I used to watch my son skate, I never thought then that she would end up coaching me, she is now in her late 20's, married with a little girl, she has been coaching me for about 8 years now and she has all the time in the world for me. She drives me to competitions because I dont like driving out of town and she can give me the support I need, although there are more years than I dare count between us you would never guess so, to hear us laughing and joking together.

She has many young skaters under her wing that she looks after equally as well but the point is, I will never make the olympics but she still has time for me and the other adult skaters that she looks after and I have to smile when I do something right and she says "good girl" she even orders me back on the ice if I'm off for too long and the children love it because they know we are all treated the same.

PS CanamSk8ter You sound like a great coach, listening as well as teaching is always a good idea.

[plinko]

For example, he has this drill nicknamed the "dreaded 8's" that he has all his kids do (similar to the MIF power circles only the circle can stay the same size. Think of doing 2 crossovers with each edge held for 8 counts, then 4 crossovers with each edge held for 4 counts, then 8 crossovers with each edge held for 2 counts, then 16 crossovers with each edge held for a single count. Do all this, then repeat once or twice. Then change from CCW forward to CW forward. Then CCW backwards, then CW backwards... by the way during the whole drill, at first, coach is counting the tempo).

Ah, the nasty "Power Circles" from Canadian Skills. Just add hideous music. You do a mohawk out of the single counts and then hold that loooong back edge, and try to stay in something resembling a figure eight.

Coach makes me do these. Every lesson. "Crossovers now". I always say no. Then I do them anyway. He doesn't get offended when I say no but he is persistent. If he lets me slack out of them one day - they're back the next. If I can get the exercise right the first time, then they're done, if I get scratchy then I get to do them for a long time. That's the motivation to make them perfect the first time out, because then I get to go onto something else. I know that's the carrot for doing them and coach knows that I know that if I do them I'll get more fun stuff but we pretend to play stupid about it.

I've known my coach for a long time as he coached my son, because of that I know an awful lot about skating, maybe too much. I get told a lot to leave my brain in the lobby and let my body do the skating. What I really like about my base coach, and all the other ones at my rink is that you are NEVER allowed to be negative. Saying "that was crap", "I could have done that better" is not allowed because if you cut yourself up, it allows others to be able to criticize you as well.

There are gentle ways of saying that skating needs improvement,and I've heard lots of them. Sometimes I get a compliment just for standing up on the ice or managing to get my skates tied. (yes, there's been days like that).

[jenlyon60]

I better not mention about the mohawks to my coach, or he'll add those in for sure....

It was my choice to add them into my lessons and practice. So far of his adults, only me and 1 other adult have had the "dreaded 8's" added to our "gotta do's"...

And I can tell that working on them will definitely help my flow and power.... I definitely need to work on quickness with the 1+1 quick crossovers (all combos CCW-forward, CW forward, CCW backwards, CW backwards)

[aussieskater]

I better not mention about the mohawks to my coach, or he'll add those in for sure....

And I can tell that working on them will definitely help my flow and power.... I definitely need to work on quickness with the 1+1 quick crossovers (all combos CCW-forward, CW forward, CCW backwards, CW backwards)I agree - I'm not telling my coach about the mohawks either. (And hopefully he doesn't spend a lunch hour on skating boards to find out for himself...)

I'm the opposite to you - the faster ones are easy for me (until he puts it to something like the "Minute Waltz"!!) - it's the l-o-n-g edges I hate.

[Mrs Redboots]

What I really like about my base coach, and all the other ones at my rink is that you are NEVER allowed to be negative. Saying "that was crap", "I could have done that better" is not allowed because if you cut yourself up, it allows others to be able to criticize you as well. .Oh, I find that if I criticise myself, my coach doesn't criticise me nearly so much - he then looks for the good in it. If I say "I thought that was rather good", he'll say something like "You need to bend your knees more" or "Your shoulder was out of alignment" or "you didn't point your toes" or "the palms of your hands weren't facing the ice"...... If I say "That was absolutely awful!" he will say, "Oh, it wasn't so bad, but you could have....." whatever he wanted to see done differently. But he likes it if I diagnose my own mistakes - that way, I know what is wrong, not just because he told me.

All the same, bless him, I could have done without him this morning. He kept saying "Rembember this... remember that...." when we were waiting for our warm-up - I think he was nervous for us, but it didn't help. I was ready, waiting, what I really wanted was to talk of other things (as husband and his coach were doing) to take my mind off it! But then, I almost never have him with me at competitions now, and am better at putting myself on the ice!

[windsor]

[QUOTE][QUOTE=plinko]
What I really like about my base coach, and all the other ones at my rink is that you are NEVER allowed to be negative. Saying "that was crap", "I could have done that better" is not allowed because if you cut yourself up, it allows others to be able to criticize you as well.QUOTE]

I've thought this for a while about being negative - not just in skating, but with everything - why open yourself up like that and allow others to criticize?

Problem is....I think that I shouldn't put myself down, etc...but, the problem is...sometimes I feel that it is better for me to say it first - pre-emptive strike, you know? Plus, you can do it in a humorous way....But, I have a friend who pokes fun at herself that way and I've heard people think she has low self esteem, plus, after a while, I found myself believing the stuff she was saying. Though, she'd just say she was kidding.....

But, don't you think it is better to admit your flaws than pretend they don't exist? Again...I've tried to be only positive and not criticize myself, but I feel as if I'm coming across as arrogant or unrealistic....someone have any insight here? Skaternum...you come across as pretty confident and somewhat strong-minded - have any ideas?! Anyone else?

[crayonskater]

There's a big difference between criticism and put-downs. If a coach isn't supposed to criticize when I do something wrong, why am I paying him? I'm certainly not paying him to tell me I'm a good skater when I'm not. Likewise with criticizing yourself; there's a big difference between 'whoops, need to get more spring on that waltz jump, remember not to rotate early' and 'I suck'.

My coach is very nice and personable and not much of the 'that looked like crap' kind of coach. That said, he constantly readjusts what I'm doing so I can improve, and he has high standards, even for an adult skater like me. And it's not demoralizing. If I knew what I was doing already, I wouldn't be needing the coaching.

[phoenix]

I had a coach who would ask me how I thought that dance pattern I'd just skated was. Sometimes it was good, sometimes it wasn't. I think it's all right to be able to comment that something wasn't good because it taught me to be self-analyzing, & now I can often figure out why something isn't working & figure out a way to fix it when I'm practicing on my own. On the flip side, I have a student who is so unaware of herself she has no idea whether what she just did was good, bad, or otherwise. So I go back to my old coach's method--tell me what was good, tell me what was bad about what you just did.

I'm far enough along & aware enough now to know whether what I did was good, crap, or somewhere in between. I don't think my coach minds if I come back to him & say, "well, that was crap". Then he tells me how to fix it & what to focus on for the next time.

Also, speaking as a coach, I must say the one thing that will endear a student to me forever is one who practices & makes progress. I'll focus my attention & often go over time with my students, if they just show that they are working hard & taking it seriously. Thankfully, most of my students do just that. While I've always prefered to work with adults, I have 2 little students now who are delighting me with their progress, and therefore, I'm enjoying teaching them!

[Skate@Delaware]

I do have to say that my instructer/coach is very supportive of adult skaters. I take group lessons and the occasional private. During group, our skills are all over the scale so lessons are always 'different' and interesting. She may have some of us working on something simpler (2-foot spins) while others are working on harder versions (sit spins). But she never makes us feel stupid or dumb because we all aren't at the same level-I think we manage to do enough of that on our own <g>!

She is always full of constructive criticism or she asks us to critique ourselves on why a particular move didn't turn out right. But she never allows us to criticize each other-she has called people out for that! I guess she figures there aren't that many of us adult skaters so we should play nice!

One thing-she never tells us in advance what we are going to work on in class or lesson! She doesn't want to build anxiety if it's jumps or spins for those that have aversions to those (like me and jumps :frus: ). If you ask her she just smiles and says, "I don't know-I haven't thought about it yet." :lol:

[doubletoe]

One of my pet peeves is adult skaters letting their coaches push them around or treat them like crap. By being an adult skater, we already have so many things going against us; the ability to make decisions and know what we want is one of the few things we have going for us. I say -- use those abilities. I have adult skating friends whose coaches have complete control over their skating, including music, competitions they're allowed to do, what they wear, who they can partner with, etc. One friends wants desperately (I mean, REALLY BADLY) to do a waltz as part of her freedance, but her coach doesn't personally like waltzes, so she's been told no. And my friend just complains about it sometimes to us, but won't dare question her coach. It just boggles my mind.

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now. No, wait. I just have to say it one more time ... ADULT SKATERS: STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES. DON'T TAKE CRAP FROM YOUR COACHES. IF THEY DON'T RESPECT YOU, MOVE ON.

Okay, sorry. I feel better now. Please forgive the rant.

Exactly. If we were children, our coaches might be authority figures to be obeyed, but we're adults and that makes them CONSULTANTS for us to hire and fire based on how well they're working out for us, LOL!

[doubletoe]

[[QUOTE]QUOTE]

I've thought this for a while about being negative - not just in skating, but with everything - why open yourself up like that and allow others to criticize?

Problem is....I think that I shouldn't put myself down, etc...but, the problem is...sometimes I feel that it is better for me to say it first - pre-emptive strike, you know? Plus, you can do it in a humorous way....But, I have a friend who pokes fun at herself that way and I've heard people think she has low self esteem, plus, after a while, I found myself believing the stuff she was saying. Though, she'd just say she was kidding.....

But, don't you think it is better to admit your flaws than pretend they don't exist? Again...I've tried to be only positive and not criticize myself, but I feel as if I'm coming across as arrogant or unrealistic....someone have any insight here? Skaternum...you come across as pretty confident and somewhat strong-minded - have any ideas?! Anyone else?

I used to be self-conscious in front of my coach and I would do the pre-emptive self-criticism thing before he even had a chance to give me his critique of how I performed. I still do it a little, but now it's in a very humorous way.
At this point, my coach has seen me on my good days as well as my bad days so I don't need to worry about what he thinks of my skating. So these days, if I try something and screw it up, I usually just skate back to him and say, "So, what just happened there?" He tells me why it didn't work and I ask him, "So what do I need to do differently?" He tells me, then I try it again, and we go through this process until it's working better. I like the "So, what just happened there?" approach because it's just analyzing the physics of what you just did; it's not judging yourself as a skater. It also implies that you have every confidence that you can fix it once you know what to do differently. :)

[twokidsskatemom]

Exactly. If we were children, our coaches might be authority figures to be obeyed, but we're adults and that makes them CONSULTANTS for us to hire and fire based on how well they're working out for us, LOL!


Not in My eyes.They learn from a coach but someone still pays the bills.They arent to be obeyed, just a teacher.I dont want my child to OBEY them, just learn from them.

[jazzpants]

Not in My eyes.They learn from a coach but someone still pays the bills.They arent to be obeyed, just a teacher.I dont want my child to OBEY them, just learn from them.Speak for yourself (well, as far as my secondary coach is concerned anyway...I live in fear of that woman!!! LOL!!!) :P ("Oh, but I'm the NICE one!!!:halo:" she says. Yeah, right...:twisted: )

Seriously, my secondary coach is well aware that I'm an adult skater, but she still makes me train like all her kid students. Primary coach is more "lax" in that area... (or at least he doesn't badger me to work out.) He and I have a good working relationship... he's sorta like the big figure skating brother I wished I had as a kid...

[twokidsskatemom]

Jazz,
Think my point was more that there isnt much of a difference at all.Coaches, either a kids coach or a adults coach is to teach the art of skating.I wouldnt want my skaters coach to be disrespectful or rude. Teach yes, correct yes, help them inprove yes.My skaters coach tells her she has arms all over the place, that is fine, that she needs to work on something, that is what we pay her to do..But she is still just the coach, and a coach is a teacher, not an authorty figure to be obeyed.She has a set of parents for that :) :) :)

[Chico]

I ask my coach to help me with certain things from time to time, but I try to follow her lead on what I need to work on and learn. She is the coach and knows me as a skater. And, as much as it drives me crazy sometimes she does know what I need. I swear it happens almost every lesson where I'm grumping in my head about working on stupid " " that I find the very next skate that stupid " " feel better. Then I go home and thank goodness she fixed me. I'm cool on all the fixes as long as she throws something new and interesting my way on a regular basis. Gotta work on the old but be challenged by the new. Coaching needs to be give and take, at least with adults. As a student you need to work with your coaches ideas and they need to work with yours.

[jazzpants]

Jazz,
Think my point was more that there isnt much of a difference at all.Coaches, either a kids coach or a adults coach is to teach the art of skating.I wouldnt want my skaters coach to be disrespectful or rude. Teach yes, correct yes, help them inprove yes.My skaters coach tells her she has arms all over the place, that is fine, that she needs to work on something, that is what we pay her to do..But she is still just the coach, and a coach is a teacher, not an authorty figure to be obeyed.She has a set of parents for that :) :) :)I know what you meant. I was joking about the "authority figure to be obeyed" part. (Minor poking fun at my secondary coach, that's all...) ;)

[twokidsskatemom]

I know what you meant. I was joking about the "authority figure to be obeyed" part. (Minor poking fun at my secondary coach, that's all...) ;)
I was too :) :)

My skaters coach is instilling great habits for her, and when she is asked to do something she does. I think it was the whole kids are different thing that bugged me kwim?


Im sure there are some coaches who expect to be obeyed about EVERTHING and to me that is the dark side of this sport, adult child or teen.

[TashaKat]

I was very lucky in that all of my coaches were adult friendly. They also didn't treat me any differently to the kids which I also liked. I was there to work and I worked, my age wasn't a factor. They didn't have any limits on me just because I was an adult and as a result I did things that I never dreamed that I would ever be able to do. In return I got the same attention as the kids no matter whether they were competing at nationals or not, after all I paid the same money so deserve the same attention.

My Solo Dance and Free coach was notorious for her explosions and a lot of people vowed that they would never in a million years have lessons with her. However, once you got to know her you realised that it was because of her passion for the sport and wanting the best for her skaters. I will admit that she wasn't suitable for everyone and that I wouldn't recommend her to everyone but I loved as did her kid skaters. I once spoke to them about it as she was fearsome when she was displeased about something that you'd done or felt that you weren't applying yourself. Every single kid said that they knew that she was right and that underneath the shouty thing they knew that she was that way because she really cared about them and their skating. She not only gave her attention to them in lessons but afterwards too. For her it was the whole package, she supported them at the rink and once they had left the rink.

My Dance coach was an absolute darling too. He was very supportive and even though he was a national champion never made me felt as though it beneath him to teach me. I spoke to him once about adult skaters and he freely admitted that there had been a time when he didn't want to take adults on but then came to realise that the majority of his kid skaters weren't going to 'make it' either and that adults tend to be there because they want to be rather than having parents who 'make' them go in week after week. He also said that adults tend to practise more between lessons and apply themselves better in lessons. From a purely financial point of view adults tend to carry on skating for many years whereas a lot of the kids will give up, even the good ones. Unless there is a problem and the adult either has to give up skating or moves to another coach then the adult is a regularly source of income.

Both of my coaches encouraged me to take tests and to compete. I only wish that circumstances hadn't intervened and that I could have carried on :frus: :cry:

If I had a coach who was abusive or didn't take me seriously then I would leave them. No matter how seriously we take it we still should be enjoying it. Although I respected my coaches and was disciplined in that I would do what they asked of me (discipline is something that is missing with a lot of people these days! I don't know how coaches put up with some of their pupils, I couldn't ... but that's the ballet background in me, you behave and follow the 'rules' or you leave the class no matter what your age or experience) I wouldn't put up with disrespectful behaviour from them. We pay our money and can vote with our feet. If only some of our skaters were more disciplined then I'm pretty sure that they would perform much better and the quality of skating as a whole would increase. That, however, is a completely different thread :)

[Figureskates]

One thing I should add or I would be totally remiss on is this.

My coach has the ability to impart her enthusiasm for the sport onto her students. frankly, if I had anyone else as coach in the first few years, I don't know whether i would have kept up with figure skating. Of course now I ama total addict so there is no danger there.

What I find very interesting at my rink is that during practice sessions, most of her skaters are out there on the ice...this includes kids as well as adults.