Boot comparisons?

[Anita18]

I don't need new boots just yet, but I figured I might as well start to research now...

I currently have Pro Teri CLs, and they've fit me great and given me no problems, other than foot numbness if I wear them while standing around on the ice. (At least that keeps me moving, LOL). I want to try out other brands partly because SPTeri is fairly expensive, but I don't know where to look. From previous experience, Riedell boots are very VERY narrow, and don't fit my super-wide feet. I believe I had to order my SPTeris in a combination size anyway. My friend has Harlicks and they've given her blisters and blisters galore, so I kinda don't want to go there...

Does anyone have experience with Jacksons, Klingbeils, or Grafs? I'm only working on singles, and I MIGHT start axels soon if I ever get lessons again, LOL.

[aussieskater]

I've had my Jackson Competitors for 2 (?) years now and I love them, love them, love them. I have a very large version of the "wide-across-the-ball, narrow-heel" foot that seems to be commonly found, and they fit beautifully, once I had the ankles *seriously* punched out (the Jacksons did have almost completely straight sides which felt like concrete boards against the bones of my feet, after the bedroom slipper skates I'd been wearing!)

Once the punching was done (twice), I had no blisters (ever), no bruises (except from falling), and they were comfortable from day one. They are still plenty stiff enough for someone starting to learn to jump (me). I wouldn't change at any price.

Only thing: the blades they came with (Ultimas) were a completely different shape from my originals (MK somethings - 20 years old!!) and until I got used to the longer rocker and the much bigger toe-pick, I spent my time either falling over the toe-pick onto my nose (so elegant - not!), or nervously trying to avoid the pick.

Also, a more permanent problem - the chrome finish on the blades has peeled badly along the ice-edge. My sharpener says this hasn't affected usefulness, but it doesn't look pretty. I've seen that other Jacksons at my rink have had the same problem.

[TashaKat]

I currently have Pro Teri CLs, and they've fit me great and given me no problems, other than foot numbness if I wear them while standing around on the ice. (At least that keeps me moving, LOL). I want to try out other brands partly because SPTeri is fairly expensive, but I don't know where to look.

My friend has Harlicks and they've given her blisters and blisters galore, so I kinda don't want to go there...

If you like SP Teri's then it may be worth saving up! I've got Harlicks (third pair) and they are the ONLY boot that hasn't wrecked my feet ... no blisters, no rubs, no pain, no numbness and comfortable as anything.

I've heard good things about Klingbiels though I've not had them myself, if my Harlicks hadn't worked out then I would have looked at them next.

I don't like Jacksons or Grafs, like Wifa for Dance but not for Free, Belatis cripple me before they collapse in a concertinaed heap and I hate, loathe and detest Risport.

I KNOW that boots are expensive but my experience has been that it is worth saving up the extra money to get a good pair. I have had 2 pairs of custom Harlicks now (1 pair of stock) and they have not only been worth every penny but have lasted much, much longer than the other boots that I bought! My first pair were still good enough for Free but were were moved on as Dance boots when I wanted a new pair :)

Just one more point ... I wouldn't buy ANY boot that I had to have punched out to make it comfortable. I've done it in the past and I wouldn't do it again, if they don't fit then I don't buy.

Out of you list I would look at SP Teris again, Klingbeils and Harlicks (don't rule Harlicks out because someone else hasn't got on with them, it all depends on YOUR feet, some people will swear by Risports which I wouldn't touch with a bargepole) and possibly consider saving up a bit more to get some customs. If you can afford it then it really is worth it if your feet are 'stock size'. :D

[aussieskater]

I hate, loathe and detest Risport. ITA! (But my husband who has very narrow long feet loves them.)

[aussieskater]

Just one more point ... I wouldn't buy ANY boot that I had to have punched out to make it comfortable. I've done it in the past and I wouldn't do it again, if they don't fit then I don't buy.From other posts you've made, it's clear that you're a far more experienced skater than I am. I hear what you're saying, but the problem is that down here we don't have the luxury of getting personalised fittings for custom boots (the few elite skaters we do have tend to buy their skates while they are overseas...)

The best they can do here is take measurements and tracings of the foot and mail or fax these to the manufacturer. These measurements don't address ankle-bone problems - I don't know if only a mould can do that? Mine were punched only to accommodate my inelegant anklebones. The rest of the boot fits fine for someone of my level. I'm not sure what else I could have done, especially as I'm not a competitive-level skater (maybe one day...) Seriously, any suggestions you or anyone has to get around the fitting problems we have down here would be welcome! (Although hopefully my current boots will last a *while* longer!) Thanks!

[Anita18]

Hehe, thanks for your input! Yeah, I was thinking of sticking with SPTeri cause so far everything's been peachy keen, but iono...after 4 years of skating in the same boots, you kinda wonder what else is out there! (Too bad I don't have the same attitude with guys - my first relationship lasted 1.5 years and I never even thought to look anywhere else, LOL!)

I actually have had the ankle punched out on my Teris. George did them himself, and I think it's standard practice for the company. He put the boots on my feet then immediately made a mark for the punch before asking me how they fit, LOL. At least, I think I remember it happening that way...

[bbyjjsk8s]

i had sp teri most of my skating life . for what your doing i think you right want to try pro teri and just save up for them . klingbeils i wouldnt recom. bcos your only doing singles and kligbeils r going be to competive good luck!

[dbny]

i had sp teri most of my skating life . for what your doing i think you right want to try pro teri and just save up for them . klingbeils i wouldnt recom. bcos your only doing singles and kligbeils r going be to competive good luck!

Custom Klingbeils are made for each skater individually, so it does not matter what level one is at. I know adults who barely move and have custom Klingbeils because they are comfortable.

[bbyjjsk8s]

well yea that too but i wouldnt recomend them

[mdvask8r]

well yea that too but i wouldnt recomend them
My custom Klingbeils are the best money I have spent on skates. Got them about 10 days ago and was able to skate in them for 2+ hours from day one. First skate I've ever had that fit my wide forefoot, ample bunions & narrow heels. They are truely "MY skates", made for MY feet. So worth the $$$, and not that expensive as customs go. My previous skates were too stiff for my level of skating. Bill K worked with me to be sure the level of support he built into the skates was appropriate for me, an adult skater with strong feet & ankles, just starting to work on Axels & 2Sals.
I'm just curious, have you actually tried Klings? and if not, on what are you basing your non-recommendation?

[aussieskater]

Bill K worked with me to be sure the level of support he built into the skates was appropriate for meJust curious (and maybe just a teeny bit jealous that we can't do that here...!) - when you're able to attend the shop in person, what does the fitter (Bill K?) actually do to get the boots right for you?

[angelskates]

Aussie skater (I am also an Aussie skater, though don't live there!). I got Klingbeils long distance. They sent me the foam, which you have to step in and it leaves an impression of your foot. You send that too them with all your measurements and requests. I have beautiful white Klingbeils with wool tongues. This forum knows what they are talking about! :lol: I used to have Graf Edmontons, but due to health problems, needed to have one boot more supportive than the other, so needed customs. I only had email contact with Janice and Bill and my boots are perfect.

Anita18 - my Grafs were also awesome and comfortable from day one. Equally as comfortable as Klingbeils for me. I have very "normal" feet though. I switch only because of the above reason. Can you try a friend's/pro shop skates just to test them out. It's an expensive and possibly painful investment to switch boots if they don't work out.

I had Reidels as a kid and they were fine until I grew....Risports were the worst boots I ever had.

[mdvask8r]

Just curious (and maybe just a teeny bit jealous that we can't do that here...!) - when you're able to attend the shop in person, what does the fitter (Bill K?) actually do to get the boots right for you?
Take a look at the video clip on the website:
http://klingbeilskatingboots.com/
Mr. Klingbeil took many, many measurements & tracings in both seated & standing positions, marked each "problem" spot, and took moldings of each foot. Then he measured again. There was lots of discussion of my problems, preferences, & experiences with previous boots & shoes. From all these measurements & moldings he then carved a wooden last of each foot. He does not modify a stock last, he makes one just for you. Plus, through the whole process he regaled me with fabulous stories of his career and long parade of famous clients. What a hoot. 2 weeks after my appointment my new skates arrived at my door by UPS.
If you ever have the opportunity, do go see him. There are other fitters around the US who are authorized fitters for Klingbeil. They will take you through the same process and place an order with Mr. K. Not sure if he has any fitters outside the US??? Of course, being personally fitted by the bootmaker himself is truely ideal.

[skaternum]

I second what mdvask8r said about going to Klingbeil in Queens. It's a must-do at least once in your skating life. :) I've never had any fitter pay that much attention to my feet. But Bill put the time and attention into me, and as a result, I have the best fitting skates I've ever had in my life. And the service really is incredible over the life of the boot.

I just mailed mine back on Friday so I could have them rebuilt (after over 2 years of pair skating, they're starting to break down a little). For $55 + shipping, they'll rebuild them and stiffen them up. I'll be able to skate another couple of years in them!

[bbyjjsk8s]

uhhh yea i`ve tryed klingbeils and currently i`m in them. if she`s not doing anything over axels or dbls i wouldnt recomend them. but yea i`m in klingbeils

[dbny]

uhhh yea i`ve tryed klingbeils and currently i`m in them. if she`s not doing anything over axels or dbls i wouldnt recomend them. but yea i`m in klingbeils

I will never do axels or doubles as I don't jump. However, I am 58, doing moves and coaching, and would not be able to skate without the custom fit and support from my Klingbeils. My daughter got her Klingbeils when she was about 15 and just starting doubles, and it was the first time she ever had boots that really fit her. Virtually no break-in period. You still have not said why you do not recommend them.

Additionally, I have a recommendation for you, bbyjjsk8s: Please read this thread on how to post so everyone can read what you have written (http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=8094&highlight=proper+english)!

[froggy]

how much do kingbeils usually run???

[Mrs Redboots]

how much do kingbeils usually run???I don't understand this question at all - why would they run? What do you mean?

[Anita18]

I think it has to do with price..

[jenlyon60]

American vernacular/slang for "cost".

Stock Klingbeils are in the $400s, I think. Their customs are roughly $550. That includes anything special like cut-down back, scallops, special boot tongues, etc. All the stuff that Harlick "nickel & dime's" one for.

[froggy]

sorry for the confusion (re: "run"), I did not realize that was such a slang term, must be because I'm a new yorker :o)

that price actually doesn't seem too bad

[Skate@Delaware]

I've had my Jackson Competitors for 2 (?) years now and I love them, love them, love them. I have a very large version of the "wide-across-the-ball, narrow-heel" foot that seems to be commonly found, and they fit beautifully, once I had the ankles *seriously* punched out (the Jacksons did have almost completely straight sides which felt like concrete boards against the bones of my feet, after the bedroom slipper skates I'd been wearing!)

Once the punching was done (twice), I had no blisters (ever), no bruises (except from falling), and they were comfortable from day one. They are still plenty stiff enough for someone starting to learn to jump (me). I wouldn't change at any price.

Only thing: the blades they came with (Ultimas) were a completely different shape from my originals (MK somethings - 20 years old!!) and until I got used to the longer rocker and the much bigger toe-pick, I spent my time either falling over the toe-pick onto my nose (so elegant - not!), or nervously trying to avoid the pick.

Also, a more permanent problem - the chrome finish on the blades has peeled badly along the ice-edge. My sharpener says this hasn't affected usefulness, but it doesn't look pretty. I've seen that other Jacksons at my rink have had the same problem.

Ditto for my foot-wide at toe, narrow at heel. Just got my 2nd pair of Jackson Competitors (smaller size-foot shrank due to weight loss). I'm breaking them in but have been skating in them in 2-hour chunks ;) ...like to break them in for the ice show...we'll see if that can happen by Friday! They are a bit stiff but so far I haven't had to punch anything out or even think about heat-molding them (I have 2 bunions).

My blade that came with my old pair (Mirage) also started peeling--and the 'chrome' started looking bad. I upgraded the blade to Coronation Comets for the new pair-what a difference! Slices across the ice like a hot knife through butter and whisper quiet!

[dbny]

American vernacular/slang for "cost".

Stock Klingbeils are in the $400s, I think. Their customs are roughly $550. That includes anything special like cut-down back, scallops, special boot tongues, etc. All the stuff that Harlick "nickel & dime's" one for.

Customs are $495 plus tax. Klingbeil does not accept credit cards. "Anything special" means not only cut-down back, scallops, tongues, but also whatever leather/color you want. This is a true custom boot, one of a kind for each customer, and the best service in the world. By the way, there is a $100 professional discount for coaches; just bring your PSA membership card.

[Debbie S]

Customs are $495 plus tax. Klingbeil does not accept credit cards.

Is this NY tax (8 1/2% or something?)? They do take checks, don't they? Also, are they accessible from the subway (#7 or E, I think) or does one need to take a cab (preferable to a bus, for me) from Manhattan?

[mdvask8r]

Klingbeil accepted my credit card last month, no problemo. Customs were about $545. Less with the professional discount.
Take the Long Island Railroad from Penn Station to Jamaica, a 15 minute ride. It stops about 4 blocks from the shop. A phone call to Lorraine will net you an appointment and good directions from the Jamaica station to the shop.

[NoVa Sk8r]

I also wholeheartedly recommend Klingbeils. I had my first pair for 4.5 years.

I got my second pair in late 2003, and they ran, er, cost $495. I thought that included a $30 surcharge for the extra leather for my large, moonstomping feet, but maybe not?
I've not yet been to Jamaica, Queens, to get the BIll K treatment, but the 2 fitters who took the measurements for my first and second pair, respectively, got it just right, because the boots were a Cinderella fit.

mdvask8r; I'm so glad you're happy with your Klingbeils. And I can't wait to see your axel, double sal, and flying camel attempts. Then you can start giving me advice! :)

[angelskates]

I paid by MasterCard last October without a problem. I sent my MasterCard details via email (scrambled and half in one email half in another - can't be too careful these days!).

[dbny]

I paid by MasterCard last October without a problem. I sent my MasterCard details via email (scrambled and half in one email half in another - can't be too careful these days!).

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.

[iskatealot]

Ok well Im going to go against what everyone else here is saying and say that I have had Risport Super Cristellos for 2 years now and I Love them. I dont think I have a particularly skinny foot either. The skates have held up just fine for the last 2 years skating year round about 4-5 times a week doing my axel and dbls up 2 the loop. Just to tell you that no not everyone hates Risports...

[Casey]

I have Graf Edmontons, and am only doing single jumps (nowhere close to the axel yet though). As many have said, they're really too much boot for my level, but I like them a lot. The break-in was pretty easy and short, and I have a lot of confidence when I skate on them. I skated in a borrowed pair of Reidells a couple days ago that were my size, and I can say that I would never put money into those. I somehow managed a salchow and toe loop on them, but it was miraculous that it succeeded and I couldn't hold the landing, I could barely spin counterclockwise and not at all clockwise. Maybe it was because they were lighter weight or the blades weren't as good, or just that I wasn't used to them, but it was an awful experience.

That being said, while I'm happy enough with my Grafs (which aren't cheap, unfortunately), my next pair will be Klingbeils. I've read many, many more good reviews of them than any other brand, plus heard many good things about them in person. In addition, my previous pair of skates was a well-used pair of Klingbeils, and while the blades I had were awful and getting them used to my feet was a painful few weeks, in the end they were a much more comfortable boot. I was able to trust them even further than the Grafs, not because of the blade itself, but because I could feel and control it a bit better. The Grafs are stiffer and have better padding, but I think that's more because they're new than anything else. Custom Klingbeils will be the next boot...but hopefully that's still a couple years off for me :) .

All that being said, I haven't skated in new Klingbeils, and I do know that Graf makes a nice boot that makes for a great skate. I *do* like them enough to recommend them. An overseas friend of mine also skates in Graf and she loves them too, and my skate fitter highly recommended them and skates in them himself. However I don't know any other Graf owners - they don't seem to be too popular.

I'd have to agree with what most people have said here and say that it's worth saving the money for good boots. In retrospect I probably should have spent less money on the blades and went ahead and gotten Klingbeils the last time. I'd also like to try a pair of SP Teris at some point because that's what I initally wanted, but I don't think I'll get them next in favor of Klingbeils...