Problem with new skates - advice needed

[Debbie S]

I got new skates on Monday - Jackson 2700s. My previous skates were SP-Teri Super-teris, which were too stiff and heavy for me - I never really broke them in, and my heel kept moving when I skated. My plan was to wait until the summer when I would be finished b-school (and hopefully employed) to get my next pair, but a nearly broken-down tongue (the only thing on the skates that bent!), shin splints, and a blister have led me to get new skates now. I suspected that I would need customs, but I can't afford those now so I figured the Jacksons would be a cheap alternative and could last a year or so.

Well, I skated on them at the rink where the pro shop is located and had to have the heat molding done twice b/c my heel kept slipping. They felt OK, but it was hard to do a lot b/c the guy at the pro shop also sharpened the blades. I was able to do more last night, and unfortunately, I don't think the skates fit well. The guy measured both feet across the heel and the ball, and it turns out I am a C-width in the ball and a AA-width in the heel. He ordered the skates in a B-width b/c he said the heel would be equivalent to a AA and he could stretch out the ball area if needed. But my heel still feels like it moves a bit, and my ankle rolls around. I started out with the top hook undone, then laced that (I think I re-laced about 5 times in one session!) and my ankle wouldn't stop moving until I laced the ankle area so tight I was worried about cutting off circulation! Needless to say, I really couldn't find a good fit, and when I skated (I mostly did forward and back crossovers but tried a few jumps) it felt like I had no support.

My coach reminded me that these skates are a step down in support from my previous pair (a step down that I needed) and it will take some getting used to, but if the skates feel too roomy now, I can't imagine that it's going to get better after they're broken in. I think the problem is that my ankles are very narrow and just don't fill the skate - it feels like that on my current skates, but b/c the skates are so stiff (and the ankle is cut a bit higher) it didn't bother me as much.

Now I'm in a quandary. I tried calling the pro shop guy today but he's on vacation until next week. I may not be able to get there next week, though, so it may be a while. I'm debating whether to have my secondary coach put my blades back on my old skates until the problem is resolved, b/c I don't want to skate too much on the new ones and not be able to get my money back (I'm assuming the skates will be returnable?).

Has anyone else had this problem with skates? This is the third pair of freestyle-level skates I've had and the first two didn't fit well, and I sure don't want to make a mistake for the third time. Would customs be the answer?

[Lives to skate]

I have a pro shop in Des Moines. When a customer has diffrent width ball and toe they usally order custom boots not stock boots. they can accomdate any size if you measure according to their specs. In the evnet you don't want order customs then I would suggest getting heel cups and any drugstore. They ar like insoles for your heels. Runners use them a lot. so look in a big box type pharmacy or check in the foot care aisle. You should try a few thing sto see which material is most comfortable. they have foam, rubber and bunga type material.

Best of luck and stick with it. With a little ingenuity you should be able to fill in the extra space. This technique was particularly helpful to one of my students who has a 1/2 size difference in shoe size, but wanted stock boots(?)

Happy skating , Burton

[icedancer2]

AS you probably know, SP Teri has combination widths and combination lengths available on their stock boots. It costs a little extra.

I'm wondering if you have tried those gel sleeves or bunga pads to fill in that ankle-gap area? I am finding with my new skates that it is hard to get things tight enough in the ankle also because the leather is so stiff. The gel pads help somewhat and I am thinking of adding bunga pads, at least for now.

Good luck. I know a lot of people swear by customs, but I have heard almost as many complaints about customs not fitting right as in the stock boots. One friend I was speaking with today said that she has two different size feet, and even with the custom boots they are not right.

Who knows? This boot and blade thing is a pain in the a**!!!

(Oops -- did I really say that?) :oops:

Good luck. I feel for you, I truly do.

[Cactus Bill]

Hi Debbie...

To answer your last question first, I think customs are the ONLY way to go. Here's my reasoning. Like you I have narrow heels with an even narrower foot than yours (B width). Incidently this makes finding street shoes that fit well a pain...oh, I guess I forgot to mention that the pretty pink pumps with the 4" heels and the pointy toes really don't look all that good on me. Must be the hairy legs... :roll:

Anyways, having just went through the fitting process for a custom pair of Harlicks, I've come to the conclusion that the proper fitting of skate boots is one of, if not the single most critical aspect of ANY sport. An precise fit is crucial to proper skating...and if you, like most of us (including me) have two different size feet, then it is the ONLY way to ensure a good fit.

Of course, just any custom boot most likely won't fit properly...each manufacturer makes his or her boot differently, and they fit differently. This is where using a shop that knows what they are doing, and has access to most brands, and are familiar with the fit of each brand is the best way to get the right boot for your feet. A custom boot won't eliminate "ugly feet", but I'll be willing to bet they will minimize damage to your feet. Figure skating puts extreme demands on your feet...it makes sense to me that proper fitting boots will go a long way to minimize discomfort and pain. And you'll skate better as well.

And you don't have to be a great skater to benefit from good boots...I'm just getting back into it after many years away from the ice (I grew up in Michigan and moved to Arizona 35 years ago). I tried to get back skating some years ago, but a poor fitting pair of boots pretty much stopped me. I couldn't get past the pain in my feet. Being a guy kind of guy, I know that men don't have the high tolerance of pain women have...which may be a good thing (for me) in that I didn't damage my feet (but then I wasn't skating either...) Now I'm ready to try again...

So if you can possibly budget a pair of customs (unless you are lucky enough to fit well in off-the-shelf boots) I would recommend customs. After all, they are MUCH cheaper than a new pair of feet... and are more convienent than surgery!

[skatepixie]

I would try to take them back while it is still possible. Dont let that chance pass by. I would say that customs is most likely your best bet. I have a B width ball and a AAA width heal, and I needed customs for sure.

[skaternum]

(I feel your pain. I have a foot just like yours!)

Bottom line -- the boots don't fit you. The fitter never should have ordered a B width if you measured something other than a B width. Get your money back right now! Then either get customs or a modified stock boot with a combination width. Wearing boots that don't fit, as you've seen, causes nothing but pain and impacts your ability to progress with your skating. It's worth it, in the long run, to pay a little extra and get boots that fit!

[flo]

Debbie, Who fit you? I'd take them back.

[Debbie S]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I have lessons with both my primary coach and secondary coach tonight, so I'm going to have them look at the fit and see if they think it's a problem. Then, I can have my secondary coach change the blades (he's very handy with that) and use my old skates for the time being.

The guy at the place where I bought the skates said to bring them back if there was a problem, so hopefully, it won't be too hard to get a refund.

The most frustrating part of this for me is that I feel like much of my progress over the past few months has been stalled lately, first by a fall on my right knee (which healed), then by bronchitis (which is hopefully over with) and now by this. I really felt like I was getting close to passing level on the Bronze moves and I was starting to get the flip, and a consistent loop. I was wobbling so much Tuesday night, I couldn't even land the loop on 1 foot. :frus:

If I get customs, I'd probably get either Harlicks or Klingbeils. Any feedback on those? I'm especially worried about the weight - I've heard conflicting opinions as to which one is heavier. I know the amount of support can be tailored to your request, but there's also all the other stuff that affects the weight.

I'm wondering if you have tried those gel sleeves or bunga pads to fill in that ankle-gap area? I am finding with my new skates that it is hard to get things tight enough in the ankle also because the leather is so stiff. The gel pads help somewhat and I am thinking of adding bunga pads, at least for now.

I've tried bunga pads, and unfortunately, I'm allergic to the gel material. (I'm full of oddities, aren't I? :) ) It's the Vitamin E that's used - I had a bad reaction to Vitamin E oil when I used it to get rid of a scar on my leg, and when I tried bunga pads and broke out in a rash, I concluded that the gel stuff (which is in Bunga, Clear Clouds, etc) was the culprit. Aside from preventing lace bite and ankle rubbing, I did like the way they helped my ankle fill the skate, but oh well.

[bbyjjsk8s]

it sounds like you would do better in a custom fitted boot, because your ball is soo wide but your heel is supper narrow same as mine . i have a b ball but a aa heel and i had to go to customs im currently in klingbeil superlites. bcos u are having shin splins maybe its because u tie your skates all the way to the top hook? i found out from my own experance (sp) that the first week in my klingbeils i could only tie my skates to the FIRST hook , weird but they where still supporting my ankles and such , i've had my customs for about 2 weeks and last week i jus started tying them to the second hook. but since you are breaking in new skates you should try tying them to the first or second hook. its going to feel weird but its the best way to break them in. another thing is since your ball is soo wide i wouldnt suggest heatmolding bcos it widens the heel too the best thing to do is to break them in yourself and then if its still brothing you , you may need to send them back and have jackson send you a new pair or have a rep come and fit you for a custom ! good luck !

edit about the customs you were considering

what level are you skating ? singles , double triples?

[icedancer2]

I've tried bunga pads, and unfortunately, I'm allergic to the gel material. (I'm full of oddities, aren't I? :) ) It's the Vitamin E that's used - I had a bad reaction to Vitamin E oil when I used it to get rid of a scar on my leg, and when I tried bunga pads and broke out in a rash, I concluded that the gel stuff (which is in Bunga, Clear Clouds, etc) was the culprit. Aside from preventing lace bite and ankle rubbing, I did like the way they helped my ankle fill the skate, but oh well.

Wow -- really? I suppose it won't help if you wear socks or tights and put the Bungas over them?

I know a few skaters that use plastic bags on their feet to prevent friction when they skate (no, I don't know what they do about the foot-sweat issue) -- maybe that would help you.

The weight thing is buggy to me, too -- my new skates were supposed to be "lightweight" but I know they are heavier than my old 15-year old boots -- man, thinks have changed over the years.

Good luck with your boots. 8-)

[flo]

Hi Debbie,
I have several pairs of custom harlicks that you can try on for weight. I have had no problem with them up until this last pair. I understand your frustration. I've been having new boot problems since last August, and am back in my well worn slipper skates. I hope my new Jacksons will be in by the end of April or early May.

[vintagefreak]

Debbie,

I feel your boot problem pain and I have newish boots as well. I had the same problem-heel slippage, even after heat molding, etc. I have wide feet at the metatarsals but very narrow heels. I reluctantly resorted to Bunga pads and wear them low, not so they cover my heel but just above. I love them! They make such a big difference and I no longer get blisters around my ankles and my spins are better since my ankles aren't wobbly. I wear them over tights, since if I try wearing them next to the skin, they ride up and come out of the boot. Annoying! Over tights they stay put.

I found that with the new boots, I couldn't lace them up as tightly as I wanted to because if I did, I'd get lace bite (yep, the only thing that was bending was the tongue). After several weeks of frustration and pain, I tried the pads and am doing 100% better. I'm hoping as the boots break in, I'll be able to ditch the pads. I know adding padding isn't always the answer, but sometimes I think even a custom boot isn't going to give you the perfect fit while they're new. Don't get too down about it because you're not alone.

Added: Klingbeils are supposedly excellent for narrow feet. I've heard that about Reidels, too. Have you tried some on?

[Moto Guzzi]

Flo, what type of problems are you having with your new Harlicks, if you don't mind my asking? My coach recently got her first pair and loves them. I ordered a new pair months ago and have had to send them back twice because they don't fit. A friend is having the same problem with hers, and I know somebody who sent a pair back three times before giving up on them.

I've usually had good luck with Harlicks but this last pair is a mess. They seem to have ignored the measurements, foot tracings, and molds that were sent in. The boots are just too small, and it's been very frustrating trying to get this fixed. My old, broken-down boots are killing my feet in the meantime.

[icedancer2]

Debbie,
I found that with the new boots, I couldn't lace them up as tightly as I wanted to because if I did, I'd get lace bite (yep, the only thing that was bending was the tongue).

This is what I'm find with the new boots -- the only thing I feel I'm breaking in is the tongue!! Well, great for them not breaking down really fast, but will the sides ever soften up???

I wish they would just go back to the "old" ways of making the boots.

Hoping that I don't end up resorting to my old slipper skates, like flo, although I tried them on last night and they felt great!

I believe we feel your pain. Glad to know I'm not the only one!!

[skaternum]

I have to throw in my unqualified support for Klingbeils. They're good for almost any shape foot, because they make a custom last. They're the only custom boot maker who makes the last based on your mold/measurement; others use a stock last and modify it. They did a fabulous job of making skates to fit my triangular shaped feet. And the service at Klingbeil is excellent!

As you've figured out, though, it's very important to get fitted properly. If you can go to NY and have them do it, it's best. At the least, go to an authorized Klingbeil dealer.

[flo]

Hi Moto,
This last custom pair didn't fit very well at all, very painful on the sides - the outside of both feet at the widest point. It was very painful to land jumps on the right foot, and the left felt like there was a problem in the same place. I don't think the base of the foot was wide enough. The heels were also very loose in both boots, and I had ordered the huggers.

I also had no problems with Harlicks for years and years, but this last pair was a great dissapointment.

[NoVa Sk8r]

I have to throw in my unqualified support for Klingbeils. They're good for almost any shape foot, because they make a custom last. They're the only custom boot maker who makes the last based on your mold/measurement; others use a stock last and modify it. They did a fabulous job of making skates to fit my triangular shaped feet. And the service at Klingbeil is excellent!

As you've figured out, though, it's very important to get fitted properly. If you can go to NY and have them do it, it's best. At the least, go to an authorized Klingbeil dealer.I love my Klingbeils as well. I had my first pair for 4.5 years before they finally broke down (and I used to skate 5 times or about 10 hours per week AND my feet are a gynormous size 14). I got my second pair in Nov. '03. Both boots fit perfectly, and they took 3 days to break in. God, I love 'dem boots!

But to echo skaternum: Make sure you get your feet properly measured--whatever the make and model. I never went to NY to get fitted but relied on 2 excellent Klingbeil dealers.

[dbny]

Another vote for Klingbeils (http://www.marthastewart.com/page.jhtml?type=content&id=tvs5631) (link is to Martha Stewart's article on Klingbeil, with link to Klingbeil in it) here. You should know though, that even with Klingbeils, more than one trip may be needed to get everything just right. BTW, I've never heard that Klingbeils are especially good for narrow feet. My coach has wide feet and has worn nothing else for over ten years. Another reason to go for Klingbeils is the price. Boots are one price for anything you want, and the service is included. I bought mine in 2000 and have never been asked to pay for service in spite of several trips back for various foot problems.

[nerd_on_ice]

I've had my custom Klingbeils about a month and I am very happy with them. I just started lacing my top hooks this week and now they really fit like a dream.

I don't know if Klingbeils are particularly suited to narrow feet. I have skinny ankles and duck feet: wide ball compared to heel (tho' I wear a B width street shoe) and my feet are very thin--not extremely narrow, but for instance I can't wear a lot of backless shoes because the vamp is so big I can stick my whole hand in on top of my foot. My old skates were Riedell 292 (Gold Medallion) and the width was okay but my feet just "floated" up & down inside the skate. I also have one foot a bit bigger than the other.

I chose to get customs because I didn't want to go through buying multiple pairs of stock boots and having them not work out. I've never heard a bad word about Klingbeils, though I will say mine don't seem especially light--they weigh about the same as my old Riedells (both skates together = about 5 lbs. according to my bathroom scale).

[dbny]

I've never heard a bad word about Klingbeils,

The worst that can happen with Klingbeils is that if they somehow can't manage to make you happy with your boots (and they will pull out all the stops trying), you will very politely be offered a full refund.

[Moto Guzzi]

Hi Moto,
This last custom pair didn't fit very well at all, very painful on the sides - the outside of both feet at the widest point. It was very painful to land jumps on the right foot, and the left felt like there was a problem in the same place. I don't think the base of the foot was wide enough. The heels were also very loose in both boots, and I had ordered the huggers.

I also had no problems with Harlicks for years and years, but this last pair was a great dissapointment.Were you able to get a full refund? If not, I'd keep sending them back and insisting that they get them right even if they have to make a new pair. Most of the people I know who have problems have been long-time customers. My friend said she thinks they make new boots according to old measurements no matter what you send in and don't take into account that feet change through the years.

I had thought about ordering Klingbeils but several people told me that their boots had been made too big. One person did get a full refund after Klingbeils had tried several times to make her a pair that fit. I don't know what I'll get the next time I need boots, but it won't be Harlicks.

[sk8pics]

I've heard from a few people that every now and then their Klingbeil boots are too "fat." Not necessarily too big for their feet but too wide so there's more chance of the boot scraping the ice on very deep edges (not that I would ever know about that from personal experience, LOL). So it seems like they have occasional problems but from what I have ever heard they always make it right.

Good luck with your boots, Debbie! I am so NOT looking forward to needing new boots!
Pat

[flo]

Hi,
Thanks,
I just got them back, but there's no time to re-mount the blades and get use to them for Nationals. I'll have to figure out what to do when I get back. I'm also waiting on a pair of Jacksons!
Thanks!

[mikawendy]

I got new skates on Monday - Jackson 2700s....

Well, I skated on them at the rink where the pro shop is located and had to have the heat molding done twice b/c my heel kept slipping....

Has anyone else had this problem with skates? This is the third pair of freestyle-level skates I've had and the first two didn't fit well, and I sure don't want to make a mistake for the third time. Would customs be the answer?

I also have Jackson 2700 in a B width. My feet measured as C at the toe and AA to AAA at the heel. I had some trouble with heel slippage in the beginning, and had the heat molding redone twice to counteract this. My skate pro also cut some small pieces of a heavy cardboard-like material (about 1/16 of an inch thick) that would be inserted under the insoles just in my heel area. He said that if that didn't do the trick, he could add another layer. That, along with bunga sleeves usually keep my heels from slipping.

I did notice that after my boots were broken in, the slippage was much less, especially when I was finally able to lace up to the top hooks. It sounds like you aren't planning on keeping the boots, but if you do, the inserts for under the insoles may help.

I went with stock boots and had these punched out a little in the toe area because I didn't have the money for customs or the ability to take a trip up to NYC to get Klingbeils when I was deciding to get new boots.