Testing sequence?

[icechick]

Wondering if anyone has a problem similar to mine and/or knows a resolution: I've passed Bronze Pairs and and preparing to take Silver Moves and then Silver Pairs. The problem arises in my intent to take Bronze FS. Do I need to go back and take Bronze Moves first or will having passed Silver Moves suffice? :?:

[sk8er1964]

I would suggest you contact your Adult section chair. Their email addresses are on the USFSA's website. That's what I did when I had a testing issue a few years ago, and they were very helpful.

[NoVa Sk8r]

M,
Do you mean that you took the bronze pairs test before the MIF was instituted in Sept. 2002?
More info is here (check out the chart at the bottom):
http://www.usfsa.org/Shell.asp?sid=18954

According to that link:
"For example, if prior to September 2002 you've passed the adult bronze pairs test, you are grandfathered to the adult bronze moves in the field test and therefore the next test you would take is the adult silver moves in the field test, which would then qualify you to take the adult silver pairs test."

So your having passed an adult bronze test (pairs) allows you to be grandfathered up to bronze level. Hurray, no pre-bronze or bronze moves for you to take!

To be sure of your status, I'd contact Maggie Harding (Chair, Adult Skating Committee) about your situation.
mharding@bjharding.com

(Let us know what her response is please ... I'm still trying to corner every angle on these test requirements!)

[icechick]

Thanks, Nova...I will contact Maggie to verify your take on this. It sure would be crazy if I had to take Silver Moves for pairs and then go back to Bronze Moves for FS! :roll:

[flo]

Hi,
Actually I thought there was something specifically stating that the grandfathering does not pass over to other disciplines.

[skaternum]

flo is correct. Grandfathering only applies to a single discipline.

However, your situation is a combination of grandfathering and passing a moves test. The moves test you have to take in the "second" discipline can be dependent upon what moves test you've passed (not grandfathered into) in the "first" discipline. If you pass the Silver Moves in order to take your pairs test, you don't have to take the bronze moves test for singles. Passing a moves test is passing a moves test, regardless of which discipline you have in mind. USFSA doesn't really know or care WHY you took a test; only that you passed it.

I have the exact opposite situation. I grandfathered into moves by passing the Silver singles test before the moves became mandatory. Thus, I've not passed any of the adult moves. If I want to test bronze pairs tomorrow, I'd have to take the bronze FS test. But, I was told that if I pass the Gold moves test, which is the next moves test up for me in singles, I don't have to take the bronze moves test in order to test single. I'm considered a Gold moves skater. Likewise, if you pass Silver moves, you're considered to be a Silver moves skater, and that will apply to singles because you PASSED Silver moves (not because you grandfathered into Silver moves).

Um, did that make any sense, or was I e-babbling again? I hope I explained that clearly.

[NoVa Sk8r]

flo is correct. Grandfathering only applies to a single discipline.

However, your situation is a combination of grandfathering and passing a moves test. The moves test you have to take in the "second" discipline can be dependent upon what moves test you've passed (not grandfathered into) in the "first" discipline. If you pass the Silver Moves in order to take your pairs test, you don't have to take the bronze moves test for singles. Passing a moves test is passing a moves test, regardless of which discipline you have in mind. USFSA doesn't really know or care WHY you took a test; only that you passed it.

I have the exact opposite situation. I grandfathered into moves by passing the Silver singles test before the moves became mandatory. Thus, I've not passed any of the adult moves. If I want to test bronze pairs tomorrow, I'd have to take the bronze FS test. But, I was told that if I pass the Gold moves test, which is the next moves test up for me in singles, I don't have to take the bronze moves test in order to test single. I'm considered a Gold moves skater. Likewise, if you pass Silver moves, you're considered to be a Silver moves skater, and that will apply to singles because you PASSED Silver moves (not because you grandfathered into Silver moves).Loops was in a similar position: Had she not passed her gold moves last year (her first ever adult moves test), she would have had to test pre-bronze and bronze moves before taking the bronze pairs test.

Grandfathering applies to a single discipline, but as you mention, there's a combination in effect here. In icechick's case, she passed the bronze pairs test before the moves were instituted. The site clearly states that if you've passed a certain level adult free skate OR (emphasis added) pairs test prior to September 2002, you're grandfathered to that level's moves in the field test.

[icechick]

But skaternum, I don't get why you would need to take bronze free (rather than pre-bronze & bronze moves) in order to take bronze pairs..??

[skaternum]

Oops, I typed FS, but I meant Moves. D'oh!

So re-read the whole thing, with the word Moves in there. :??

[phoenix]

Who was it, exactly, who raised their hand in the committee meeting that first set all the rules for adult moves, and said, "Let's make this as unnecessarily complicated as possible! Let's make grandfathering permitted, but only sometimes, under very particular circumstances, and let's make it not make much logical sense so no one will really quite understand it all!"

WHY did they feel it necessary to make so many convoluted, often-times senseless rules concerning adult moves, grandfathering, crossing over from standard track, etc? :frus: :frus:

[flo]

Phoenix
I think that's covered in the USFSA rule book under:
V:18, Setion XXXIVXIIIXIV, subsection OHNOOOO!, paragraph 10,486, www.xxxit'snothere.haha,the committee for obscurity,tables 1-392, columns bb-ss.

Also see corrections TBA (but too late to make any real difference).

[skaternum]

WHY did they feel it necessary to make so many convoluted, often-times senseless rules concerning adult moves, grandfathering, crossing over from standard track, etc? :frus: :frus:Warning: history lesson coming.

I know that's a rhetorical question, but there's actually a historical answer. Many people have conveniently forgotten this, but when the Adult Moves were first proposed by the Adult Skating Committee, they were not mandatory. They were intended to provided an additional test track for adults if they wanted to take them. This optional setup was advertised far and wide. However, once the Rules Committee (I believe it was) got hold of them, they said that based on the current rule structure, you can't have corresponding moves and freeskating tests (e.g., bronze moves and bronze fs) without the moves being a prerequisite to the freeskating. So rather than pull the moves test propsal and rethink it, it was sent to Governing Council anyway. None of the adults knew it was being presented as a mandatory structure. That was a NASTY surprise which left many in the adult skating community feeling like a bait-and-switch had been pulled. Once word got out, there were some pretty nasty debates about the moves structure. It was one of the hottest contested propsals we'd seen at GC in a long time, with lines of people at the microphone trying to get the floor and speak in favor of or against the mandatory adult moves.

Ultimately (and unfortunately, imo) it passed by an incredibly close margin. Because the whole "moves as prerequisite to freeskating test" thing hadn't been the original intent and had never really been thought out, it was a tad messy trying to put it into practice. Since then, they've been trying to clarify and codify how all this is supposed to work. Thus, the memos and diagrams and stuff on the Adult Skating page on the USFSA website, and the proposals at GC to rearrange the moves.

There are so many cracks people fall through, and some of the questions are really hard to answer. Some of our local test chairs have nearly gone insane trying to figure out what some adults can and can't test. Mind you, though, this is not much different from some of the non-adult rules. Trying to piece some of those together can be a real challenge too! :frus: