Walley/Toe Walley

[vintagefreak]

Does anyone do this jump? Any advice or tips? I've always been intrigued by things in skating that aren't often done and this jump is on my list of things I want to try. I have a really strong loop jump so I figured maybe the walley might be "do-able." Any comments on this jump? For those who aren't familiar, Don Korte's site has a description:

http://www.sk8stuff.com/f_recog/recog_j_walley.htm

Thanks all!

[Scarlett]

I do toe walleys...the actual walley seems complicated. For my toe walley (I'm rotationally challenged), I do a RFO 3 turn, step down on a LI edge and then pick with R foot and do a toe-loop looking thing.

Hope that helped.

[techskater]

Not toe walleys. but real walleys are hard! I can land axels and a couple doubles and still can't figure that one out completely. I thought I almost had it and my coach looked at it and said, that's a loop! :giveup:

[doubletoe]

Yep, I have landed axels, double sals and double toes but have yet to land anything more than a half walley. The walley is an extremely awkward jump, which is why I was absolutely floored when I saw Stefan Lindemann land a double walley in his exhibition program. I'd never even seen one before!

But a toe walley is easy. It's just a toeloop from a back inside edge instead of a back outside edge. If you rotate CCW, you can go into it from a RFO 3turn, RBI (clockwise) crossovers, or a LFI mohawk. The reason people don't bother with the toe walley is that judges count it the same as a toeloop and the toeloop is easier.

[Perry]

Actually, a true toe walley is ridiculously difficult. So few people do them now that what is essentially a toeloop from a mohawk has come to be known as a toe walley, and that's counted the same as a "toeloop" because its essentially the same thing.

Real walleys are difficult, but no more difficult than anything else in skating. The only difference is that people don't devote much time to them, and they're too hard to just kind of pick-up. When I was about 11 and I decided I really wanted to be able to do one, I started devoting 20-30 minutes to learning every day and then it only took a week.

[coskater64]

As everyone else has said the toe walley is really just a toe loop and is counted the same as one.

The walley is different and a little more tricky. I learned a walley as a child using edge pulls rbi,rbo, rbi the bend knee, rock off toe while on a deep inside edge, 1 revolution land on rbo edge. I have always had one in my program since silver, it takes practice and we have several children who saw mine and wanted to do it. With several weeks of practice and maybe doing it in the harness after you get the feel for doing a 1/2 walley you can master it easily. You just have to practice it every day and it will come to you with time, just like everything else.

la

[Michigansk8er]

Actually, a true toe walley is ridiculously difficult.

That's for sure. I had a major crash on one..........which is what put my back injury over the top.

As for walleys.......I've tried and tried and tried. It seems like it's another one of those things that you either get right away (like spread eagles), or you never do. I've seen kids get it in the first half hour, and skaters with solid triples struggle with it. It's my dream jump, even though I'm obviously walley challenged.

[Isk8NYC]

Having a strong loop jump is an asset in learning the walley. Start practicing the back power pulls, first two-foot (TIGHT!) then one foot. Work on the rhythm of the arm checks and the edge changes.

The biggest tip is checking the free foot behind and "catching up" to it in the rotation.

[starskate6.0]

8O All fish to me.
It might as well be Iv done double toe loop and double toe walley and I can say that if you can master a realy good single walley ,,My hat is off to you :bow: I must have tried this a dozen times and k-splat " ouch, k-splat ouch, ouch. I wish you the best of luck with this jump... It requires great edge work, balance and upper body strength to do great one. I realy wish you the best with it because it would be a real feather in your cap. ;)
great video

[kayskate]

I have never seriously devoted myself to learning the walley. I took a few lessons w/o much success. I could do a 1/2 walley and can do a simple two walley. As far as I know, a walley is not a test move in the US. It is great for entrances to jumps in a foot work sequence though.

There is another oddball jump called a "toeless lutz". Never worked on that one either. Anyone else?

Kay

[Thin-Ice]

Anyone who wants to see really nice walleys should check out Daisies' technical program. She has THREE in a row and never loses speed in the series of jumps! :bow:

[mikawendy]

There is another oddball jump called a "toeless lutz". Never worked on that one either. Anyone else?

Kay

I've heard of people doing this jump--it's really hard from what I've heard. The interesting thing is that it's not listed in the USFSA rule book list of jumps (on pp. 372-377 in this year's rule book). Walleys and toe walleys from single up to quad are listed, but toeless lutz isn't. They must be even rarer than multiple-rev. toe walleys...

Does anyone know--is a walley jump named after someone?

[doubletoe]

Anyone who wants to see really nice walleys should check out Daisies' technical program. She has THREE in a row and never loses speed in the series of jumps! :bow:

Yes, they are beautiful! She is good at teaching the walley, too. She teaches it from a RFI 3-turn with a short exit instead of back power pulls. But I still couldn't do it. . . just a half walley. . . :(

[Perry]

There is another oddball jump called a "toeless lutz". Never worked on that one either. Anyone else?


How exactly does one do a toeless lutz? It's sounds a bit scary to me.

I think the trick to really good walleys may be not being afraid to fall. When I first starting learning them, I was afraid to fall because I thought I'd look like an idiot falling on a single jump. But once you get over that fear (and once you get a good but/hip/knee pad), you can get farther and farther around until you can stand up.

[kayskate]

Yes, they are beautiful! She is good at teaching the walley, too. She teaches it from a RFI 3-turn with a short exit instead of back power pulls. But I still couldn't do it. . . just a half walley. . . :(

I am assuming you are describing an exercise to learn a CCW walley. However, I thought a walley took off from an inside edge. Does the skater do the RFI3 then change edges? Can't picture this.

Kay

[Isk8NYC]

IDoes the skater do the RFI3 then change edges? Kay

I don't know if that's what the writer intended, but that's how I was taught to do a walley. RFI3 to a RBO, then a fast power pull to the inside edge and jump! Keep the foot behind. Speed IS an asset to get the lift off the ice.

[icecatepairs]

actually i think the reason why the toeless lutz is not in the rule book is that it is actually a 2/1 salcow. I had a fear issue with 2/1 sal. I struggled with the traditional entrance, and finally my singles coach pulled out the last trick in the book. i was already comfortable with 2/1 flip, and had started attempting 2/1 lutz but still freaked out on the sal. he showed me how to do it from a lutz entrance because i am not afraid of jumps that take off while moving backwards. you set up like a lutz but reach back and instead of picking your toe in, you change to an inside edge, pull it around and do a sal. i actually landed it first like that then went back to the traditional entrance. i since had an injury an removed the sal from the program to go back to the lutz. when the injury heals i may try this entrance again as it is less taxing on the left hip. I believe this is an old entrance that is not used much. at camp in hackensack, artur dimitriev was the only one who had seen it . the younger coaches were kind of like what the hell is that?. Artur knew right away who had taught it to me, thats how rarely it is used. i don't know what the judges think but he seemed to think it would be rewarded as a harder entrance if landed clean. it is a sudden edge change and some people find it frightening. i think this is what you are talking about, but i might have misunderstood your original description.

[jazzpants]

Anyone who wants to see really nice walleys should check out Daisies' technical program. She has THREE in a row and never loses speed in the series of jumps! :bow:I remember seeing them a few years ago at Skate SF. My friends were all going 8O 8O 8O when they saw the three walleys in a row!!! After the program they all were :bow: :bow: :bow: to daisies! (I was doing it alongside with them.) :lol:

[LoopLoop]

Icecatepairs, there's a boy at my rink (novice level) who does a triple sal from the entrance you described. It's fun to watch!

[2sk8]

How exactly does one do a toeless lutz?

There was an article about a coach that could do this in Professional Skater one or two months ago. I don't recall the details - maybe someone still has it?

[sk8er1964]

Icecatepairs, there's a boy at my rink (novice level) who does a triple sal from the entrance you described. It's fun to watch!

So, in context to the toeless lutz jump, would that make this a toeless flutz? :lol: :P

[icedancer2]

So, in context to the toeless lutz jump, would that make this a toeless flutz? :lol: :P

That's just what I was thinking!! :lol: :lol:

[icecatepairs]

actually, it is not really a flutz, if done right it is really a deeper inside edge than some people get from a 3 turn. if your eyes watched the jump after the change of edge, it should look like a regular sal. the "flutz" usually appears more on a straight line. this curves a lot. I hope to work it again when the injury is healed. but we were a little concerned to use in case the judges didn't recognize it. :roll: :D

[daisies]

Anyone who wants to see really nice walleys should check out Daisies' technical program. She has THREE in a row and never loses speed in the series of jumps! :bow:Awww, thanks!!! At sectionals they weren't so hot. I managed only two. Sometimes I am so gung-ho on the first one, it throws me off for the subsequent ones! I need to remember to even them out. :)

Yes, they are beautiful! She is good at teaching the walley, too. She teaches it from a RFI 3-turn with a short exit instead of back power pulls. But I still couldn't do it. . . just a half walley. . . :(Thank you to you too! But actually I teach it from a LFO 3-turn with an immediate step onto the RBI edge. I wouldn't advise it from a RFI 3 ... maybe that's why you only managed a half! ;)

I remember seeing them a few years ago at Skate SF. My friends were all going 8O 8O 8O when they saw the three walleys in a row!!! After the program they all were :bow: :bow: :bow: to daisies! (I was doing it alongside with them.) :lol:You are too kind, jazzpants. :) I honestly believe that walleys are super easy once you get the hang of them. I often see them taught from power pulls, but IMO that's the worst way to do them. Power pulls keep you from being square when you take off, and they also make you lose your momentum. That's why it's better to do them, assuming you jump CCW, from a LFO 3-turn with an immediate step onto the RBI edge. You'll be in perfect position to take off. (It's easier to show this than explain it, btw!!!)

[vintagefreak]

Thanks for all the tips and info! This is great. :)

[kayskate]

actually i think the reason why the toeless lutz is not in the rule book is that it is actually a 2/1 salcow. .

Could you mean "1/2" sal as in "half" salchow? If, not I really have no idea what a 2/1 sal is. I think I understand the bit about doing a BO edge like a lutz prep then pulling a change of edge and doing a sal from an inside.

Kay

[icecatepairs]

kayskate,
sorry if my description is kinda confusing. its literally an alternate entrance to a double sal. if we are on practice ice together in kansas i can show you the entrance. right now i don't do any double sal in my program. due to a hip injury all my double attempts (key word !!) are pick jumps. but i can proabably show it to you as a single. they are fun to play around with
;)