Ina Bauer's/Spreadeagles

[melanieuk]

I've come to the conclusion that my hips don't turn out - well at least not both at the same time. :roll:
I'll never be able to do an outside spreadeagle - is it possible I could eventually manage and inside edge one?

Ina Bauer's must be slightly more achievable for us poor closed hipped people.
The trouble is when I do it - my right foot leads on a FO edge, and my left leg is slightly behind and to the left, on a BI edge - my left foot isn't turned out enough and makes me come around in a big curve.

Any tips?

[lisabelle]

i have the same problem. my turnouts gotten a lot better but i still can't do any spreadeagles or ina bauers at all. i do wonder if that has to do with the way my boots dont fit...but it doesn't really make sense. anyway.

try practicing the positions against the wall to get a feel for it, doing it in skates is much different than doing it in shoes so just getting into the right position can help. and then for spread eagles you can work on them with bent knees.

[icetiff]

My hips are very closed, I can't do a spread eagle, but my ina buaers are ok but not the best. I just stay with spirals. My partner who has really open hips can do them like a sinch. I have tried so many things to push my hips open but my physical therapist said its know use.

[melanieuk]

Yes, my coach DID tell me that if I couldn't do them as a child, it was unlikely they'd (my hips) turn out as an adult.
I did practise the position off ice but risked injury doing so.
I even felt an ache in my hips.

[Schmeck]

melanie, don't push youself too hard - I did, and ended up with injuring myself just trying to increase my miserable turn-out. I used to try to increase my turn-out by lining up my skates against the boards, then straightening my knees. It increased my turn-out a little, but I think it was very bad for my hip joints. I know I overdid this exercise, but when an 80 yr old figure skater friend of mine showed me this and can do it with ease, it was hard for me to take it slowly :roll:

Schmeck

[melanieuk]

LOL! Schmeck! :lol:
[color=red:ba5aa35489] THAT'S what spurs me on. I have a skating friend in her 50s who can do lovely spread eagles, and has mastered the back sit spin.

OK, so I've landed slightly underrotated axels and have all the other single jumps, and this lady is still learning loops,[b:ba5aa35489] but [/b:ba5aa35489] she IS older and she's got 2 elements that I'd give chocolate up for. :roll:

Anyway, I've since lost the axel, but that's another long story! :cry: [/color:ba5aa35489]

[Schmeck]

melanie, I also have a skating friend in her 50's who is my role model! She is just the most elegant skater in the whole club, has all her singles, including a combination, and the most beautiful spiral - to die for! I just tell myself that in 15 years I'll be able to skate just like her :lol:

Schmeck, :wink:

[backspin]

For the bauer, the deeper the knee bend of the forward let, the easier it will be. It's all right to start doing these on an inside edge track--as your turnout developes, it may start to straighten out--you may never get it truly over to the outside edge.

NEVER do the "feet against the wall & straighten the knees" exercise! All that does is torque your knees--which were never meant to twist. You can lay down on your back & let your feet fall out to gently stretch your **hips**. Consciously stand with your feet in a "T" position when off ice (I mean just in your daily life), which stretches one hip at a time. This type of flexibility takes years of consistant work to improve, & does have a lot to do with your natural bone structure.

[Bailey]

I've been trying for 20 some-odd years to do a nice spread eagle, and this year, for the first time ever I think I have it. It just happened one day on the ice, and that's all I did for the whole day. It is a wonderful feeling, but I had decided that I would never be able to do it - satisfied with a nice but much easier forward inside spread eagle. My mother and my aunt (my first coach) laughed when I called her that day to tell her that I finally mastered the skill...

I love doing Ina Bauers, it is one of my favorite skating moves and one of the positions I can do the best. I've tried for years to do it on a forward inside curve like Josee Chouinard, but it really hurts my back. Maybe someday...

Good luck everyone with your spread eagles and Ina Bauers. Have fun, wishing you all the best....

[icesk8er31]

Hey all! I started learning my ina a couple of years ago and could only manage an inside one at first. I finally figured out how to get a straight line ina (on a flat) and it had little to do with my hips. I was leaning with my upper body so far over my skates that it was forcing me to an inside ina. I learned how to stand up straighter and thus change my trajectory by checking my right shoulder back hard and checking my left shoulder back and up, so my right arm led (and was a little behind my body) and my left arm was in the air just behind my ear. I don't know if this is the best explanation, but hopefully it will help. As a result, over the past two years, I've been able to twist more and check my upper body harder and am finally starting to get an outside ina as well!

[melanieuk]

Thanks for the tips....the bent knees and the arm positions may well help me with the Ina Bauer but I can't see me ever doing an outside spread eagle! :cry:

[MyTripleFlutz]

I think with spread eagles, you can either do them or you can't. If you are close hipped, than you will have a really hard time doing them. I have a good friend who is super flexible and an amazing skater, but she can't do a spread eagle to save her life. And she can do the spilts and I still can't! If you can't do it, you can't, don't beat yourself up about it. I would gladly give my spread eagle for a Russian split!

[sunshinepointe]

My coach is continually "yelling" at me to straighten my knees in spirals and in camels. I have great extension (don't mean to brag, but its true :oops: ) but I'm told the effect is ruined by a "slightly" bent knee. The funny thing is though, I really believe they're straight. I practice the positions off the ice with ankle weights and I can't see what he's talking about. I always try extending through the toe and firming up the muscles around the knee but he still complains. Is this a strength issue? I have very good flexibility in my hamstrings so I don't think that that's it...any advice? Having my coach on my back about this at every lesson is quite annoying. :evil:

[NoVa Sk8r]

My coach is continually "yelling" at me to straighten my knees in spirals and in camels. I have great extension but I'm told the effect is ruined by a "slightly" bent knee. The funny thing is though, I really believe they're straight. I always try extending through the toe and firming up the muscles around the knee but he still complains. Is this a strength issue? I have very good flexibility in my hamstrings so I don't think that that's it...any advice?I have a similar problem, and it evolved from me doing catch camels for several years. It is not a strength issue.
The way I fix it is NOT by thinking of flexing the right quad, but by thinking of locking my right knee and pushing out my right hip and leg.
If yo uare also doigna catch camel, quit this move for several weeks. Also, get your spirals critiqued--maybe you are innadvertently bending your knee in your forward spiral, and that is translating over to your camel?

[NoVa Sk8r]

I've come to the conclusion that my hips don't turn out - well at least not both at the same time. :roll:
I'll never be able to do an outside spreadeagle - is it possible I could eventually manage and inside edge one?I can do an easy inside spread eagle but have never been able to do an outside one. It helps learning these with sharp blades. 8-)

Ina Bauer's must be slightly more achievable for us poor closed hipped people.
The trouble is when I do it - my right foot leads on a FO edge, and my left leg is slightly behind and to the left, on a BI edge - my left foot isn't turned out enough and makes me come around in a big curve.Definitely work on achieving a deep bend in your right knee--that will make a big difference. And if you get the Ina Bauer, you can (easily) shift to an inside spread eagle.

[aussieskater]

An exercise that worked for me follows (sorry about the long post) - maybe any experienced physical therapy people on the boards might have other suggestions or comments about the safety of this one.

The exercise starts with lying on the floor (or somewhere comfortable!) on your tummy with your legs straight and apart (about shoulder width) and your feet flat on the floor and as turned out as you can *comfortably* manage. (If you have a real problem with turnout, this may involve your feet lying on the floor with the soles pointing to the sky...no matter. Just don't push anything.)

The next step is to "make like a frog".

(*Pause while aussieskater lies on the floor and does the exercise while working out how to explain the next bit...* Stop laughing!)

This involves spreading your legs a little further apart than shoulder width, bending your knees to lift your feet in the general direction of your bottom, and gently trying to touch your feet together. Soles together is terrific, but inside edges is OK at first too. When you can manage the first distance, spread your legs a *little* further apart and try for that. Again, don't push anything - this is a very gentle controlled stretch, and you don't want to injure anything. It may take some weeks to see any real improvement.

The bonus of this variation is that you can't use your knees - because you're lying on your tummy, you have to use your hips and you should feel your pubis start to press into the floor (doing this exercise on the bed has some advantages).

If your knees or ankles are stretching at all (particularly if you're not trying to touch the soles of your feet together), or if you can't feel the stretch either side of the pubis, you're not doing it right. I have very good turnout now and I can still feel a comfortable stretch in the region just between the inside of the hip joint to the thigh and the edge of the pubis on both sides when I do this one.

The eventual aim is to be able to lie on the floor with your legs straight and the inside edges of your feet (the edge alongside your big toe) flat to the floor, and your kneecaps pointing out (because the turnout has come from the hips not the knees). The other aim is to be able to lie on your tummy with your knees apart, raise your feet off the floor and touch the soles together comfortably, while your hips and thighs remain flat on the floor, and your kneecaps point somewhat sideways.

[Skate@Delaware]

I have a similar problem, and it evolved from me doing catch camels for several years. It is not a strength issue.
The way I fix it is NOT by thinking of flexing the right quad, but by thinking of locking my right knee and pushing out my right hip and leg.
If yo uare also doigna catch camel, quit this move for several weeks. Also, get your spirals critiqued--maybe you are innadvertently bending your knee in your forward spiral, and that is translating over to your camel?
I was told to hyper-extend the skating leg and push it more forward so the foot is ahead of the hips; doing this also extends the back leg more (it's also scarier-I'm always afraid my knee will lock up again!)

PS-ina bauers and spread eagles are probably NOT going to happen for me-a hip defect and permanently shortened gracilis muscle (I can't seem to stretch it out any further) keeps me closed....got diagnosed and started stretching too late in life :cry:

[flo]

Also, it helps to turn your head and look, and with your arm point to the direction you want to go. This brings your leading shoulder in place. For example when I was starting to practice outside eagles I did an inside, then turned my head to the right and pointed my arm out straight, and went onto a flat eagle. Then I started on a flat, usually on one of the hockey lines and looked over my right soulder and pointed to something a little behind me. Then I was on outside edges. I also teach it from back crossovers in the direction you eagle. I have them skate on the circle and then open up the shoulder, look over the right shoulder, point and bring the right foot around and on the circle.

[Casey]

I didn't think I could do them...but kept trying and trying. I also took a few ballet classes back when I started skating, and that helps with turnout too.

Finally one day I managed to do a very bent-knee inside spread eagle for about 10 feet without falling!! I was so exciting. Since then I've worked on it a lot, and can get my legs straight now on an inside spread eagle. With bent knees and bent forward I finally managed to stretch my spread eagle to a straight line, and then finally figured out how to do outside spread eagles (albeit so badly formed they're not proper spread eagles at all), and they are soooo fun once you manage. I work a little bit on straightening my legs every time I skate...it's slow going but eventually I'll get there.

Also the butterfly stretch seems to help.

Strangely, I find Ina Bauers pretty difficult, though I can do them. Inside only and can't arch the back though. Haven't worked on them as much as the spread eagles yet...

[Perry]

It's definately not just a matter of skill. I've never been able to do one (and I'm currnelty working on triples), whereas some of the little girls working on singles at the rink seem to pick them up with no effort. People who aren't open-hipped can learn them, but only if they're not really closed-hipped either, just average. Practicing the position, if you really are closed-hipped, won't help at all -- and may injure you. My surgeon has forbidden me ever to try that position again for fear of stretching out a capsule in my hip that had to be sewn into place. I stretch it too much, and I could tear the stitches. Unfortunately, this also prevents me from doing simple things like choctaws, which is kind of a problem in dance, but....Point is, if you're completely closed-hipped, you really don't have much hope, and it can be dangerous to try, even if you don't have a pre-existing condition.

[aussieskater]

Also the butterfly stretch seems to help. Is the "butterfly stretch" what I was trying to describe in the post above re "making like a frog"?? If so, and with your permission, I'l adopt your name as it's so much more elegant! BTW, its' terrific to see you back on the ice again and having fun (as you posted in the week's logbook entry).

[Casey]

Is the "butterfly stretch" what I was trying to describe in the post above re "making like a frog"?? If so, and with your permission, I'l adopt your name as it's so much more elegant!
No, however it is also called the frog stretch, just to make things confusing. The butterfly stretch is where you sit on the floor, and pull your feet up as close to your pelvis as you can, soles together. Then stretch forward as much as you can. Eventually you'll be able to get your chest to the floor.

Or for another description straight from my source:
"This mainly stretches your groin and upper inner-thigh area, but also makes some demands on your lower back. It is often called the butterfly stretch or frog stretch because of the shape that your legs make when you perform it.

Sit down with your back straight up (don't slouch, you may want to put your back against a wall) and bend your legs, putting the soles of your feet together. Try to get your heels as close to your groin as is comfortably possible. Now that you are in the proper position, you are ready to stretch. For the passive stretch, push your knees to the floor as far as you can (you may use your hands to assist but do not resist with the knees) and then hold them there. Once you have attained this position, keep your knees where they are, and then exhale as you bend over, trying to get your chest as close to the floor as possible. Hold this stretch for about 20 seconds.

The isometric stretch is almost identical to the passive stretch, but before you bend over, place your hands on your ankles and your elbows in the crooks of your knees. As you bend over, use your elbows to "force" your knees closer to the floor while at the same time pushing "up" (away from the floor) with your thighs to resist against your arms."

[dooobedooo]

....Or for another description straight from my source: ...

Casey, could you post a link?

Thanks!

:D

[Casey]

Casey, could you post a link?
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masrjb/Stretch/stretching_7.html

[Mrs Redboots]

One of my coach's pupils has no turn-out at all, and when she was first asked to try a spread-eagle, she misunderstood what was wanted, and did a beautiful one - with her toes pointed towards each other! My coach, who finds turning-in very difficult (he is naturally turned out), was very impressed, and the young woman now does this as her "signature move"!

[sunshinepointe]

^ :twisted: Now THAT is something I must try!