Ballet for skating... does it really help?

[jazzpants]

Okay, my secondary coach has commented to me before that "Boy, do you need ballet???" Does it really help you look "skate prettier"? Or does it screw things up for you as far as the ice is concerned? I am aware it gives up better body awareness and the flexibility thing, how does it help? (I want to hear particularly those who started out skating and then took ballet for a while how it helped them.)

I'm contemplating taking ballet or modern dance now but am I not sure I want to spend the money or the time if the returns are too small to be worth the trouble.

Thanks in advance for the input! :mrgreen:

[Elsy2]

I don't have personal experience with ballet, but when our club instituted ballet as part of the overall training program, the skaters seemed to take a leap in presentation level on the ice. Posture and smooth and flowing arm movements were improved. This is just my observation from the stands....

I have two skating friends who have years of ballet, and they do have an elegance on the ice that I would never have.

[MannyisHOT]

I have been doing ballet since before I started skating. It helps me look more graceful when I skate... well not exactly when I fall. It gives me better posture because my ballet teacher will not let us dance unless we have a straight beck and suck our tummies in so now I am like permanently stuck with a straight back and my tummy sucked in so I look better all the time!

[skaternum]

My 2 cents on this topic:

In my experience, adults who did ballet seriously and for a long time have a better body sense and do skate "prettier." However, there are some things about ballet muscle memory that just totally screw up your skating (spotting, dropped hip, weight centered more forward than on skating, leg positions "over crossed" for skating, etc.) and take forever to unlearn or relearn. Ask me how I know. :frus:

But for those who start them concurrently or take up ballet after they start skating, there don't seem to be those problems. I'd definitely recommend ballet under those circumstances!

[dbny]

There are ballet classes specifically for skaters and other athletes who want to improve their primary sport.

[TashaKat]

As dbny said, 'ballet for skaters' as a class is a great idea :) (rather than ballet for dancers). The teacher concentrates on things that will help with skating rather than teaching pure ballet. My old ballet teacher used to do classes and she was very good at tailoring it towards skaters rather than dancers.

I can relate to the dancer turned skater thing though! I helped me enormously with some things and hindered me with others!

I tended to go onto 'pointe or demi pointe' when doing spins which doesn't exactly help but my mohawks were the biggy. I had pretty good mohawks, so I thought, the changeover was good, there was flow, it wasn't jerky ... UNTIL I started dancing with my coach. It was then that I found out that to do the mohawk I was just turning out 180 degrees and stepping from one foot to the other instead of all this body weight stuff ;) easy :) Well, it WOULD have been easy if I didn't have my coach on the other end of it who couldn't match it!

I love ballet for how it made me look better than I was, for the grace, for the extensions, for the body awareness and for the muscle memory oh, and for remembering programmes :)

[Mrs Redboots]

My coach has asked us to do Ballroom/Latin dancing rather than ballet - but then, we are ice dancers!

Another coach said she thought gymnastics was probably the most help to skaters....

[Melzorina]

There aren't too many adult gymnastics classes though, are there?

[NaomiBeth1]

A girlfriend of mine took up karate to increase flexibility in skating! It might not improve grace, but it definately improves flexibility, posture, and strength.

Drawbacks:
(1) She liked karate so much, she dropped figure skating altogether! Then, she met her husband in karate!
(2) We thought skating was expensive? Karate is another ridiculously priced sport!

[mikawendy]

However, there are some things about ballet muscle memory that just totally screw up your skating (spotting, dropped hip, weight centered more forward than on skating, leg positions "over crossed" for skating, etc.) and take forever to unlearn or relearn. Ask me how I know. :frus:

ITA, skaternum! And turnout can really mess you up in some skating maneuvers. And the arabesque/degage position in ballet is messing me up on landing position, because my leg is too far inside the tracing instead of along the tracing...

[samba]

We had ballet classes at work when the company had its own leisure centre, I thought I would be ok at it, being as I skate an all, no way, I was awful, most embarrasing, just didnt get it at all and to think I always fancied myself as a ballet dancer when I was little. :oops: Guess I'll stick to skating.

[fadedstardust]

It's a double edged sword, because you learn to spot when you turn in ballet- you shouldn't do that in skating. You learn to turn out in ballet- you shouldn't do that in skating except in a very few specific moves. You learn to swing your leg around when you spin in ballet, which you shouldn't do in skating. It's a COMPLETELY different kind of movement and the two will completely confuse you. It's like trying to learn two foreign languages at once- the words just all start to sound the same and blend together. I think it would be more productive to have on ice choreography sessions with an ice dancer for example, who could aid you in having better posture an skate "prettier" without starting a whole new discipline. Ballet is very hard and takes many years to even look like you know what you are doing, it's not something you can go to one a week for three months and have ballet-influenced skating. Especially if you start later. I think, if you aren't INTERESTED in ballet, then doing it for skating is a waste of time and counterproductive. There's better options out there.

[Mrs Redboots]

One of our skating mums is actually a ballet teacher in her other life. When her son started skating, she started too - years ago, about the same time as we did - but gave it up in frustration after six months, as the techniques required were so very different from ballet. Son, incidentally, still skates most mornings before school!

I think ballet was helpful for the old figures, as it taught control and poise - as, I believe, did fencing - but for those of us who are adults, I am not sure what purpose it serves other than as a fun way of keeping fit (they do have adult ballet classes here) and increasing one's flexibilty & turn-out.

Maybe a body conditioning class? I am finding my Latin dance classes a serious challenge, but the steps I'm trying so hard to remember make a terrific off-ice warm-up!

[NoVa Sk8r]

There's an article in this month's Skating magazine ("Making the Connection," page 54) that discusses in limited detail how ballet may enhance skating technique. The facing page shows how certain skating moves correspond to certain ballet moves. (And I'm glad it shows "arabesque" in the ballet column and "spiral" in the skating column. I hate hate hate when folks call a "spiral" an "arabesque." Blech! :evil: )

[mskater]

I was a gymnast before I switched to skating and found that I had a comparatively easier time than other beginners when it came to jumping and spinning. Learning to 'skate' however is another challenge all together :??

[twokidsskatemom]

If a parent, person had to pick either ballet or gymnastic?. My dd was in ballet last semester but they didnt have spots for both my kids this semester so they went with gymnastics this time.They both love it alot.
My dd is really trying to work on arms, where they are in jumping, landings,spins stroking ect.She has that great great knee bends but needs some arm control.

[TimDavidSkate]

Dance has really helped me a lot on the ice. From stretching and performing. Without it I would not have my artistic ability on the ice.

[Kit kat]

i think ballet helps make your skating look smoother and more graceful. Also, it may help in your outcome of your spins and jumps because you are more balenced and aware of your stance

[quarkiki2]

As a dancer-turned-skater, I think that there are several ways that ballet can help your skating: body line, rhythm, and presentation at the top of the list. But because dance is nearly all done to mucis, you also get used to moving in time with music. This isn't something you necessarily get with gymnastics.

I've actually found my dance background to be most helpful in Synchro. Since I've been hooking up to a line of people and moving in formation since I was 5, I'm very comfortable with the type of choreography used for Synchro.

My feet are another story, however. Muscle memory kicks in and they are turned out every time they leave the ice. OK for spirals and landing positions, not OK for forward crossovers. I am too often on the front part of my blade and, though I almost always LOOK steady, I don't really feel steady when turning. I'm far too used to the friction of the floor pushing back when I push into it -- it's hard to retrain your brain that the ice doesn't respond like the floor.

Now, I think taking up dance simply for body position, musicality, and flexibility is a fabulous idea for an adult skater, especially if you can find a dance class designed for skaters. If you can't, talk to the instructor -- he or she may be able to show you ways to gear the movement in class for skating (ie, no spotting and less turnout on your supporting leg).

[AnnM]

I don't have an extensive dance background --- just a couple years of jazz dance in high school, and a couple modern/jazz classes during college. My last dance class was over ten years ago. I started skating again after I stopped taking dance classes and found that even that little bit of dance training helped my skating a great deal in terms of posture, carriage, line, flexibility and flow. Most people would say that I "skate pretty". I think that dance helps increase body awareness and also gets you used to the idea of getting your body into some unnatural positions (like we have to do for some skating moves).

Jazzpants, if you're not too enthused about ballet specifically or don't want to pay a lot of $$ if you're not sure about taking dance classes, check out one of the jazz or modern classes at City College. There's also a studio near 20th and Mission Sts. called Dance Mission that has a lot of different dance classes and classes just for adults.

[jazzpants]

Jazzpants, if you're not too enthused about ballet specifically or don't want to pay a lot of $$ if you're not sure about taking dance classes, check out one of the jazz or modern classes at City College. There's also a studio near 20th and Mission Sts. called Dance Mission that has a lot of different dance classes and classes just for adults.Dance Mission doesn't teach beginning ballet for adults. I've also looked in Dance Center and found that they have moved their school to a location which is convenient located right smack in the Tenderloin district! :evil: (And we San Franciscan know that this is not an area for a nice young lady to go walking alone at...unless you want to get mugged...)

CCSF might be an option but day and time is a factor. :( The other option is "Ballet for Skaters" at my rink but again, same factor as CCSF.

[pennybeagle]

I was a gymnast before I switched to skating and found that I had a comparatively easier time than other beginners when it came to jumping and spinning. Learning to 'skate' however is another challenge all together :??

I also competed as a gymnast in my former life...not at an extremely high level, mind you (I got as far as level 7 before doing high school gymnastics). As part of our training, we did "ballet for gymnastics." The skills I learned in this were very useful to me as a gymnast, and have also been VERY useful in my skating.

I think I am more conscious of details like the positions of my hands, arms, and head. I remember learning about how to make moves "look" bigger by being careful of leg angles and such. The ballet training taught me to be very aware of my posture as well--although I find that I have had much less luck transfering this over to skating (much easier to transfer this to floor exercise and balance beam). I also think I learned to be more patient. However, I think the most important thing I learned from gymnastics was the value of "selling" a routine--keeping the head up, smiling, and performing with confidence, even when tired.

Either ballet or gymnastics training will help one develop more strength, that's for sure. Many dancers I know have the type of strength in their legs necessary to really HOLD positions like spirals and laybacks. Gymnastics will give you a lot more upper-body strength. Either endeavor will help develop core strength.

[stojkopanda]

For ballet to help you usually need to take it intensively for a few years.

[doubletoe]

[QUOTE=quarkiki2]As a dancer-turned-skater, I think that there are several ways that ballet can help your skating: body line, rhythm, and presentation at the top of the list. My feet are another story, however. Muscle memory kicks in and they are turned out every time they leave the ice. OK for spirals and landing positions, not OK for forward crossovers. I am too often on the front part of my blade and, though I almost always LOOK steady, I don't really feel steady when turning. I'm far too used to the friction of the floor pushing back when I push into it -- it's hard to retrain your brain that the ice doesn't respond like the floor.[QUOTE]

As someone else already suggested, this will not be a big problem if you are a skater before you take ballet. The ballet will help you understand the basis for the body positions in skating and make those body positions second nature to you. The ballet exercises where you practice graceful arm movements and upper body movements along with your leg movements will be particularly helpful!

[fadedstardust]

For ballet to help you usually need to take it intensively for a few years.

I agree. And preferrably at a younger age. Not that adults cannot learn ballet, they certainly can, some even go on pointe after a few years, but for it to make a huge difference in the way you carry yourself and your flexibility etc, it's prefferable to have that engrained in you at an earlier age. I don't really think beginning adult ballet lessons will bring anything to the ice that you couldn't get from a few ice dancing lessons.