Overly-Competitive

[little_huskie]

Skating is regarding as one of the '#####iest' sports around. I was just wondering how other competitors deal with this. I had a 'nancy' style run in a few years ago when a fellow skater stabbed me in the shin with her blade on purpose. I no longer skate competitively, but do enjoy skating once in a while just for fun, however when I see this girl at the rink I still feel the most horribelest feelings towards her, and I am actually ashamed by that! How do you guys deal with the 'dark' side to the sport?

[Elsy2]

Interesting post little husky. Although I've heard tales of skaters sabatoging other's equipment, etc. I really have not seen anything like this firsthand in the years my daughter and I competed.

My first competition, I did have another adult come straight up to me and verbally intimidate me. She said she watched my practice and although I had a few good elements, she was much better and was going the solidly beat me......I was floored, and soon found out she did that to all new competitiors, lol! I placed higher than her by the way.

I skated with another adult who commanded all the ice and would scream "Get out of my way!" in a very ugly manner while practicing her program. I began to call her "The Baraccuda"......I heard she went after someone on purpose with a back spiral on a warm up. Yikes! We really had to watch out for her.....

I'm curious to here any other stories. The club we belong to is quite successful, so one would think there might be some foul play. But I really don't recall any specific incidents.

[pennybeagle]

I have not had any nasty run-ins with other skaters at competitions.

However!
At one rink that I used to skate at (not anymore!) there was a coach whom I will call "Coach Evil" who was particularly nasty and verbally abusive to not only Coach Evil's own skaters, but also other skaters (particularly adults...Coach Evil NEVER coached adults) who were practicing on the same ice. One adult skater felt so verbally abused that she placed a restraining order on Coach Evil so that they would not be near each other in competitions, and then moved to another rink to train. Although I was never directly on the receiving end of said coach's awfulness, I will say that the atmosphere of the rink was very different if Coach Evil was present in the building--everyone got tense and nervous as if it were some huge event.

That said, Coach Evil has several very good (young) competitive skaters who always seem to win at competitions. And yes, Coach Evil's skaters were being trained up to be Mini-Evil skaters who would stare down their competitors, mock/imitate them in warm-up, or make catty comments when they knew they were being heard...or do senior moves in the field in the 5-minute warm up for a preliminary girl's competition. It was never anything that would result in physical injury, but they would use anything to get a psychological edge. :roll:

[little_huskie]

this is all so interesting! Have you ever heard of skaters being held back from tests, just in order to win at competitions? I know of a few prelim skaters who are capable of double jumps being held back just so they can up their trophy count, I think this is a highly unfair and unprofessional practice! We also had 2 'evil coaches' at our rink who trained their skaters to scream 'move' and 'get out of my way' even if they were only doing simple jumps! This made the atmosphere so tense, but as time progressed I realised that this was just their way of trying to 'psyche' other skaters out! I also realised that their is no excuse for rudeness! :D

[sk8er1964]

When I was a kid, I was kicked by another girl because I had beaten her once again in competition. The weirdest thing about it was that we mostly skated ISIA! I don't remember if we ever even competed against each other in USFSA. Anyway, I still bear the toe pick scar on my leg.

As an adult, I train at a rink that has several high level kids. I have never had anything but friendliness from them, and their coaches (all of whom also coach adults). However, some of the elite wannabes can be quite a pain.

[Mrs Redboots]

Thankfully among the adults in this country (UK), although we are out to win if we can, we are mostly good friends and enjoy competing against each other. There are one or two, mind.... but they are a tiny minority. I've very seldom come across a really unpleasantly competitive adult skater in the international competitions we do, either. In fact, I don't think I ever have - usually any perceived unfriendliness is just due to nerves!

My coach, though, once told me that he knew skaters who would try to "take out" other skaters in the warm-up, purposely knocking them over, and that sort of thing.... that's scary.....

[AnnM]

Well, at my first competition, the only other skater was another student of my coach's. I was 24 at the time; the other skater was 31-32. In the weeks leading up to the comp, she would "mad-dog" me while I practiced my routine during freestyle sessions. She would also take a break from her own practicing to sit and watch me during my lessons. While we were both on the ice, she would cut in front of me as I was setting up a jump, or would go into a camel spin right in front of me nearly whacking me a few times. On the day of competition, she just continued to mad-dog me prior to our skate. To sum up the actual skating, she clearly sandbagged, which ISI penalizes. We competed at ISI freestyle 3, but she insisted on doing jumps and spins from freestyle 4 & 5, against the coach's advice. So I won, which infuriated her. She threw a loud verbal tantrum after results were posted and dropped the coach soon after. I thought that was it, until a few weeks later when various adults started approaching me at the rink and asking about what happened at the competition with the judging, etc. Apparently she had been going around screaming that she "wuz robbed!" to anyone who would listen. She even did the "wuz robbed!" spiel and trash-talked me to George Spiteri (who I'm sure really cared about it --- not). I know this for a fact because one of his sons who was in the shop that day called me up right after it happened, asking if I knew this woman.

I dealt with it by trying my best to take the high road. I answered people's questions as honestly as I could without insulting her or questioning her competitive ethics. After a while, she stopped coming around the rink, and stopped skating altogther because got banned from the San Francisco rink, which was the nearest alternative to our rink. Fortunately, most people that she trash-talked me to realized she was being a poor sport and that I didn't "wrong" her. But what an intro to competitive adult skating!

[Melzorina]

What does sandbagged mean?

How does one sandbag?

Is there an art to sandbagging?

Sorry, Don't answer all those, I just wanted to write sandbag many forms. :)

[AnnM]

"Sandbagging" is when one knowingly competes at a lower level when they are capable of actually testing and competing the next level up. It's more obvious I think in ISI competitions, where the competitive skills match up more evenly with the testing requirements. In USFSA comps, there's much more room between competitive skills necessary and skills needed to pass the corresponding test.

In my case, virtually all of the jumps and spins that the woman did were from ISI level 4 and 5. The coach had advised her to test/compete at level 4, but she chose not to, hoping it meant an easy win for her at level 3.

[Melzorina]

Ahh, I understand now.
Thank you Ann!

Perhaps in theory it's a good idea.

[mikawendy]

I've only ever been kicked once, and that was by accident during a class when a little skater didn't realize I was standing behind her. Luckily no damage done since she was TINY. :)

I have heard rumors of skaters saying to or about other skaters, you'll never pass XX test or place higher than XX in XX competition, but I have never witnessed this personally. I have also heard rumors of skater's skates being sabotaged at regionals (honey or oil being put in them), but again I've never seen this or met anyone this happened to (so it could be Skating Urban Legend :D ).

...Melzorina--I think there are some old posts in this forum on sandbagging, if you want to read more. (To be fair, I have known some skaters to have trouble passing a particular test, so they are forced to compete at a certain level for a long while, or not compete at all...and then they are accused wrongly of sandbagging.)

[PattyP]

Wow AnnM! What a nightmare. Sounds like this person had some real issues...and not just in skating. Glad she's not around you anymore.

Fortunately this type of behavior is extremely rare in adult skating. Most adult skaters are very supportive of their fellow competitors. I guess I've been lucky, all of my experiences have been very positive. I got teased a little bit about "sandbagging" last year because I had failed my Gold FS the first time around and had to skate Silver again, but it was all friendly and very complimentary.

Hopefully you wont have to run into another person like that again and get to experience what adult skating is all about!

[Mel On Ice]

In my case, virtually all of the jumps and spins that the woman did were from ISI level 4 and 5. The coach had advised her to test/compete at level 4, but she chose not to, hoping it meant an easy win for her at level 3.

I didn't think this was possible, as I thought you were penalized for doing tricks above the level you are competing at, with the exception of artistic. If you are competing freestyle 4, you can do a flip, loop, salchow and toe (which are in fs3 and 4), but not a lutz or axel which is in 5.

I agree it is somewhat unfair at ISI comps when they combine groups (I've competed against a 4 level skater when I'm a 3), but I chalk that up to getting used to competing USFSA bronze, where I will see ladies with flips and more.

[AnnM]

I didn't think this was possible, as I thought you were penalized for doing tricks above the level you are competing at, with the exception of artistic. If you are competing freestyle 4, you can do a flip, loop, salchow and toe (which are in fs3 and 4), but not a lutz or axel which is in 5.

I agree it is somewhat unfair at ISI comps when they combine groups (I've competed against a 4 level skater when I'm a 3), but I chalk that up to getting used to competing USFSA bronze, where I will see ladies with flips and more.

You are absolutely correct Mel. The judges penalized her for her flip, loop, sit spin, camel spin, and some of her uncaptured moves because we were competing in a straight FS3 competition. It was not artistic or combined groups. The coach warned her that she needed to either take the FS4 test and compete there, or take those moves out, but she refused. So it's possible, but one will end up paying the price with point deductions.

[pennybeagle]

this is all so interesting! Have you ever heard of skaters being held back from tests, just in order to win at competitions? I know of a few prelim skaters who are capable of double jumps being held back just so they can up their trophy count, I think this is a highly unfair and unprofessional practice!

Happens ALL the time in USFSA testing, and I think I see it more at the pre-juv/juvenile level, since there is an age limit to those levels (IIRC, you can only compete in juvenile up to age 12). So if you are a 10 or 11 year old with a double axel and maybe a triple or two (which you don't compete), do you stay Juvenile and try to win Jr. Nationals, or do you go into the Intermediate level and take your chances? From what I understand, the top intermediates have multiple triples, and there is little difference in jump content between the top novice, junior, and senior skaters. With the current age restrictions on competing internationally at the senior level, it almost doesn't make sense to even start competing as a senior lady until you are at least 15 or 16. As for preliminary, the USFSA rulebook states that "An Axel plus up to two different double jumps which may be repeated as individual jumps, jump sequences, or jump combinations are permitted." So theoretically, you could have an Axel-half loop-double sal, a double sal-double loop, and a double loop-double loop in the same program with maybe another single Axel and another single double sal or loop and not break any rules (of course, that doesn't show variety, but that's a lot of doubles).

What I objected to with the girls doing senior moves on a preliminary freestyle warmup is the fact that (A) there is no other reason to warm up these moves other than to intimidate and fluster other skaters and their coaches, and (B) senior moves take up a LOT of space, and these girls were not getting out of the way of their competitors (who were trying to set up jumps, etc). You can usually see an axel or a lutz takeoff from a mile away--to begin a diagonal moves pattern or a sustained edge step that is NOT in your program that will deliberately cut off another skater is just plain rude.

[fadedstardust]

It's not really sandbagging if you're doing doubles at preliminary- if you want a shot at the podium in preliminary, you need an axel, so it wouldn't surprise me that someone with a GOOD axel would also have some doubles in their arsenal. USFS doesn't have any rules against doing things higher than on the tests, so it's a free for all. This is competition. I expect my competitors to stare me down and to talk trash all they want- I'm sure I've done it too. Intimidating in a warm up is normal too as long as there is no physical contact and as long as no one is acting wreckless or dangerous. This is competition, expect people to act like competitors. They could tell you they'll wipe the ice with you when they're done- it's done like that in football, and ice skating is more of a sport than football will ever be, so I don't see why we should all be expected to act like we're at a dinner in a five star restaurant. I'm nice to my competitors, I'd never presume to be better than anyone at any given time because people can progress and you won't know where they are at- plus everyone has bad practices. I wouldn't go to someone's face and intimidate them, and I wouldn't complain about my results- I'm not a person to cry wuzrobbed, even though I have been- because I've also robbed others in the past, that's the way of the game. However I have no hard feelings towards people who feel better about themselves if they do the things mentioned above. As long as they don't threaten or hurt me physically (the kicking in the leg thing is absolutely RIDICULOUS) then I have no problem with it. It gives me more fight when it comes time to skate my program and know I have to make them eat their words. Usually, I thank them for their bad attitude right afterwards. They tend to help me win.

My advice is to use the anger positively, to expect such behavior in a competitive sport, and if you really just can't handle it, then skate for fun because people aren't going to change, and really, if you're secure in your skating, then those people shouldn't matter. I know that I've read the adult track is supposed to be less competitive than the kids track, and I've never competed on the adult track, however I don't know why it should be any different, y'all are still competing against each other.

[dbny]

Wow, I couldn't disagree with you more, fadedstardust! IMO, it's totally unsporting to be rude or intimidating to your rivals. The point of competition is to determine who is the best at the sport, not who is the best at psychological warfare or physical intimidation. I think anyone who engages in such tactics should be disqualified. Of course there are many who tread a fine line here and do get away with it, much to the detriment of the sport. Carried to its extreme, you've got Tonya Harding.

[fadedstardust]

dbny- it's okay, everyone's got a different opinion of how competition should or should not be carried out, I'm not saying I'm right, just saying I find no problem with it. Tonay Harding had an oppopent physically injured for her (allegedly, although I believe it of course- just saying there is no proof) that is where it crosses the line. I think in a sport like figure skating, mental strength is worth as much if not more as athletic ability, so I think that one should be able not to be affected by little tactics of intimidation. I mean, look at all the silly stuff Michelle had to go through- how many times have her and Sasha collided in practice now? I know it happened again this year- but it doesn't phase her, and it shouldn't, although it's bordering on physical assault so I think Sasha's crossed the line. But if Sasha was trying to psych Michelle out by doing a triple triple or something right under her nose and then looking at her, I wouldn't see anything wrong with that. As an athlete competing, you should be sure enough of your strengths not to get intimidated that way, IMO. But of course, I understand your point of view, as well. It's just that supportive is not a term I would think of when I think about USFS qualifying competitions, and I don't think we owe each other to be SUPPORTIVE. I am friendly with most of my competition, but I'm not forced to be- it's just the way I am. Certain people hate me and have tried to intimidate me yet I beat them everytime, so clearly it doesn't work, and I know that, so if it helps them, that's fine by me.

PS: (I was still on the boards when you replied, so there was my super-speedy rebutal!!)

[Debbie S]

I know that I've read the adult track is supposed to be less competitive than the kids track, and I've never competed on the adult track, however I don't know why it should be any different, y'all are still competing against each other.

But a big difference between kids and adults is that adults know how stupid it is to trash-talk, verbally and physically intimidate people, and try to psych out competitors in warm-up (as if I actually pay attention to what my competitors do in warm-up - someone could land an axel (I compete Pre-Bronze/Bronze) and I wouldn't know it). It's called maturity. Generally, we're not skating to make a career out of it (yes, I know there are exceptions), we're there b/c it's fun, and we focus on ourselves. I would expect parents to teach their kids that kicking competitors and trash-talking is wrong, but as a former teacher, I know there's a lot of stuff parents seem to not be teaching their kids these days. However, if you're an adult and think that it's normal to go around acting like an overgrown 10-year-old, there's something wrong with you, IMHO.

I've found that adults at competitions are very supportive of each other. While we are focused and want to do well, we have fun cheering on other skaters, b/c we know how hard it is to get out there. For example, after I finished my moves at the Bronze MIF comp at New Year's, the woman skating directly after me complimented me on my spirals (the straight-line spirals from Silver MIF) as she was getting on the ice (and I was coming off). I thanked her and wished her good luck. I'm sure most kids wouldn't do that to each other at their comps, unless they were friends from the same rink/club. But adults realize that we're out there for ourselves and not so much to beat others.

The adults that I've found to be quick to bad-mouth or make fun of other adults are the ones who don't compete themselves. They'd rather stand around at practice sessions and watch other adults running through programs and then laugh about them, or gossip about how they shouldn't have passed such-and-such test, or they're with the wrong coach, etc.. After all, why step out of your comfort zone and put yourself out to be judged when you can make fun of those who do? :roll: But they are a very small part of the adult skating community, thank goodness. Unfortunately, not everyone has matured beyond middle school. That's not to say that adults that don't compete are wrong; my point is that we should respect each other's skating decisions and efforts, no matter what people choose to do with their skating.

[vesperholly]

I am a very big fan of Shut Up and Skate.

[Chico]

I don't compete, maybe someday, but I do skate with one or two pain in the butts. I look at it this way....THEY have a very serious maturity problem. I refuse to let their attitudes bother me. I have things to do, SKATE!, and don't have time to worry about their crap. I've learned a little trick when things really start to bug me...out skate them. And if their much better than me I skate my best and SMILE. Eye contact IS made. Works! =-)

Chico

[Aussie Willy]

Like a few of the others on this thread, most of the adults where I skate get on really well with each other and are very supportive. If they don't get on (and there are a couple of them who I don't talk to) you just ignore them and don't talk - simple as that.

If anyone tries to run anyone over it is purely unintentional. Any blades in legs is purely accidental!!!

However (you might remember my thread about the fundraising coach/mother) there is one person who does go around telling others that they don't have the same ambitions as her daughter and will tell her students not to socialise with the other skaters (who are all really good friends) lest they might "give away" some great secrets about this skater's training and the like. It is just really juvenile and this skater is really on the outer because of her mother.

[twokidsskatemom]

What I dont get...And I know Im native but...
why cant all skaters skate the best they can and not worry about the other skaters?
Even at a young level, some of the skate moms are over the top.Im not teaching my kids any of that stuff is ok, just to go out, skate the best they can.I, as a parent, want all the kids at our rink to do well. I, as a parent, will try my best to teach to be supportive of others, and skate their best, no matter what.
This seems to be such a huge issue, for comps, for ice shows ect.The parents are more upset than the skaters.

[Isk8NYC]

Frankly, trash-talking and intimidation escalates tension unnecessarily. If you need to "psych out your competitors", it just demonstrates your insecurity with your skating.

I'm from New York and we do have a reputation for aggressiveness. 8O I don't get psyched out, I get even and let my skates do it for me.

I learned, through competitive skating against friends, that competitions are much more exciting and fun when everyone skates their best. I pass this message on to all of my students, encouraging them to greet their friends on other teams and wish them well. Friendship is much more important to me than a gold medal.

Do skaters sand bag? Absolutely. I did not, because I worked hard to move up a level every year, which was one of my goals. Sometimes it cost me, because I could do the elements well enough to pass the test, but not enough to win against someone who had been competing at that level for three seasons. However, practice makes perfect and I eventually overtook them in the standings.

More often than not, in my opinion, adults usually have unrealistic views of how well they skate. I have met several people who I believe are delusional about their abilities. One woman, who could barely do a flip, swore she was struggling because she was so used to doing it as a double. oooookaaaay. :roll:

Maturity is accepting reality without acting like a child. Kicking someone, "dogging" them (great description, by the way) or trying to psych them out just demonstrates loser mentality. Everyone wants to be with a winner, not a whiner.

[kayskate]

I think it is ridiculous for adults to psyche each other out or be openly nasty. What do they think they are winning? Isn't adult skating a hobby? SOme may be more serious than others, but no one is going to the Olys. Most of the kids aren't either. It's a hobby for a lot of the kids too, but they and their parents just don't know it yet.

I think the "get out of my way" attitude exists b/c their is only so much ice and everyone is fighting for it. Often this aggressive behavior makes others cower in the corners, even though there is not necessarily a wide separation of ability. The pushy jerk just intimidates his/her contemporaries. Call it "Darwinism".

These people exist everywhere. Do not think this behavior only manifests itself at ice rinks. Nasty people are nasty at work too. They are selfish in public places. They cut in line. They bully others. It happens in childhood and adulthood.

Kay

[coskater64]

I have been leary of posting on this subject...many people who don't know me think I am not very nice when out on practice ice. And there is a reason for that: as a silver skater I would allow myself to be run over and I wouldn't get anything done because in trying to lookout for others I got nothing done. When I changed coaches, my new coach reminded me I also paid for the ice and I did need to get things done. So now I have a more take charge attitude, get it done and let's go..sort of way. I am not very friendly on the ice but off the ice I am very friendly and I have enjoyed meeting all the people involved in the sport.

I do see a lot of the younger children being less than courteous on occasions. We had a little pre/juv girl do a double loop inches away from a bronze skater in her program. The jump was very cheated but the little girl had to sing, oh lookie it's clean, hold the landing and almost trip the skater w/ the right of way. I looked at the little girl and suggested that next time maybe she should just try to stab the adult skater. Of course the adult involved stopped and went around the little girl but the ego on that child still made me very angry and her parents encourage that as does her coach.

So it is an interesting dilema and it's difficult to know what to do. I am trying to count to 10 before I speak unless it just awful.

[dbny]

And there is a reason for that: as a silver skater I would allow myself to be run over and I wouldn't get anything done because in trying to lookout for others I got nothing done. When I changed coaches, my new coach reminded me I also paid for the ice and I did need to get things done. So now I have a more take charge attitude, get it done and let's go..sort of way.

If you are one of the faster, stronger skaters, then you have the responsibility to look out for those who cannot get out of your way, even if you do have the right of way. OTOH, there is nothing wrong with taking your right of way if it endangers no one. I've skated on freestyle ice with a Novice national competitor and never feared a moment, because he was clearly in control and also knew where the other skaters were when he was coming their way.

[Chico]

Ya know, I was lucky to skate on ice with ex-Olympians (not current) once. Very cool experience! Anyway, they were very, very polite. They were very kind in their compliments and gave me more than my share of space when skating. I was in a lesson and they were practicing. Being GOOD isn't a ticket to being rude. Being kind to everyone at the rink should just be the way.

Chico

[Mrs Redboots]

I'm wondering whether we'll see fewer axels in Preliminary-level competitions nowadays since they issue guidelines as to what the judges want to see in each class? The new judging system might mean that skaters actually compete at the level they test, or vice versa!

[kayskate]

I have skated w/ Olympians several times. They are very polite. The only problems I ever had was w/ a dance team. It was not b/c they were rude. They just seemed to be everywhere at once b/c they were so fast and skating as a unit of two people. I had to stop skating on that session. It was just too much for me. I could not get out of the way.

In general, the rude people are not the best skaters, they are to cocky ones w/ egos that far surpass their abilities.

Kay

[coskater64]

Last year we had the current olympic pairs champs having their program for the Hancock on ice special rehearsing @ our rink. The choreographer lived nearby so they used our rink as they put things together is was easy to stay out of their way but once they got going it was just easier to watch by the boards. We also get a lot of high level dancer and it is the same.

I should mention that they were all soooo nice, but once they get moving it seems wiser to move to the wall or just watch. I have skated w/ very good juvenille skaters (jr national caliber) and w/ those skaters I know they will see me and they usually skate classic patterns using the rink, lutz corner, flips in set spots, spins closer to the middle.

It is in situations where it is a varied level of adults that things get crazy. Which adult national was it when the two skaters collieded and one lost several teeth and got a concussion, they were bronze or silver. I always like it when they level the practice at sectionals and nationals it does make it safer and I tend to know the people I am skating against so it makes it easier to ask, are you using that corner? Okay, I'll go over there and use the opposite one.

la

[Clarice]

It is in situations where it is a varied level of adults that things get crazy. Which adult national was it when the two skaters collieded and one lost several teeth and got a concussion, they were bronze or silver.
la

I was on that practice - the collision happened right in front of me. It was a mostly Bronze level practice, though there might have been a few Silvers out there. It was the very first morning of the competition. One skater was skating VERY fast, and really wasn't paying any attention to anything around her. I didn't get the sense that she was being deliberately rude - just overly focused (which, of course, is also very dangerous). She didn't seem to be trying to intimidate anyone (although she was!), because her focus seemed to be turned totally inward. She wasn't making eye contact with anyone, and seemed to be concentrating really hard on what she was doing. The 2nd skater was moving very slowly near the center of the rink. Both were going backwards, with the faster skater doing power back crossovers around the perimeter of the rink. I can't really blame the 2nd skater at all for what happened - when she turned backward, the first skater was still halfway around the rink, and nobody else was moving anywhere close to that fast. The 2nd skater didn't even see what hit her, it happened that quickly. Several of us saw the collision coming, but there was absolutely no way to prevent it. You didn't even have time to yell. It was the fast skater who was seriously injured - a concussion, shattered teeth, and I think a broken jaw. The slower skater was shaken up, but otherwise unhurt, and was able to compete. We were all pretty badly rattled, though. They moved our practice over to another ice surface, but it was very hard to get anything done in the time left - it seemed like everybody was too scared to try very much at that point. It just goes to show that you ALWAYS have to be aware of what's going on around you - a lot like defensive driving.

[mikawendy]

I don't compete, maybe someday, but I do skate with one or two pain in the butts. I look at it this way....THEY have a very serious maturity problem. I refuse to let their attitudes bother me. I have things to do, SKATE!, and don't have time to worry about their crap. I've learned a little trick when things really start to bug me...out skate them. And if their much better than me I skate my best and SMILE. Eye contact IS made. Works! =-)

Chico

Well put, Chico! I usually do the same. I don't really worry or wonder what they're saying or thinking--and usually I just ignore the people.

[dbny]

Both were going backwards, with the faster skater doing power back crossovers around the perimeter of the rink. I can't really blame the 2nd skater at all for what happened - when she turned backward, the first skater was still halfway around the rink, and nobody else was moving anywhere close to that fast. The 2nd skater didn't even see what hit her, it happened that quickly. Several of us saw the collision coming, but there was absolutely no way to prevent it. You didn't even have time to yell. It was the fast skater who was seriously injured - a concussion, shattered teeth, and I think a broken jaw.

OMG, that is really scary. I love the B power crossovers, but never go faster than I think I can handle if someone gets in the way. My coach is forever showing me just exactly how I can scan my path when going backwards, because it's so scary to me. I still can't really see behind me well enough on the B cross strokes to do them without a lookout pal, but the B power crossovers are one of the easier ones to keep a watch on.

[Debbie S]

I love the B power crossovers, but never go faster than I think I can handle if someone gets in the way.

Yeah, all I have to do is see a lot of people in my path and decide that it's not a good session on which to practice this move. Or I practice it and go really slow, but that doesn't help me improve in the power dept. Generally, the only times I can have a good practice of these are when I'm at one particular rink that is usually empty for the FS sessions I skate, but I recently found out that this rink is 15 feet shorter than my primary rink (old NHL size vs. new, longer NHL size) so I realized that I'm going to need to get a bit more assertive about practicing this move (and the others) at the crowded rink b/c that's likely where I'll be testing. Something tells me the judges won't be too pleased with my pattern if I finish the 4th lobe 10 feet before the last hockey circle on each side.

My pet peeve is the skaters (usually little kids that don't have a good concept of safe space on the ice) that essentially stand or skate around aimlessly in one spot for an extended period of time right in the middle of a pattern or a program run-through and are completely oblivious to people calling out "Excuse me" or Watch out!" to them. :roll:

[vintagefreak]

I try to skate for the love of skating. I'm all grown up, I have no plans on making it to the Olympics :D so I just skate because its what makes me feel challenged, alive and creative. It frees me from the stress I have in my life as well. I'm not competing at the moment but used to as a kid and I feel that the 'tudes and general ugliness of skating and competing has increased over the past decade or 2.

I feel it has gotten nastier with all sports, however. You think skating can be ugly, try sitting in the stands for a elementary school recreational league soccer or basketball game. Parents can be very rude and obnoxious towards coaches and other players. I never remember that when I was a kid. It is terribly sad and scary but the coaches, officials, judges and other staff involved in sports need to take a harder line right now if they want to correct the problem. A zero tolerance policy is needed. You respect and treat each other as you'd want to be treated or you're out. From comps to freestyle and public sessions-You follow the rules and general practice guidelines or you're out. Right now. The rinks and coaches are not babysitters but they also should tell the students what is expected and what is considered rude and be firm or have consequences. If they fail to do this, the problems are going to continue and get worse as I see it.

I'm just real peeved and growing more and more peevish all the time by the general inconsideration and egocentric attitude in skating though. I wish more people could just skate because they love skating and.

[Chico]

mikawendy,

Thanks. =-)

Chico

[russiet]

...My pet peeve is the skaters (usually little kids that don't have a good concept of safe space on the ice) that essentially stand or skate around aimlessly in one spot for an extended period of time right in the middle of a pattern or a program run-through and are completely oblivious...:roll:

On my weekend public skate session, I have to be very wary of the young ones. They skate chaotically! Nothing is predictable!! It is a public skate, so I just deal with it. There certainly is no malice on the part of the child.

Last weekend I had a near collision/happy ending. I was practicing at moderate speed in the center circle. All was clear. I stepped forward and found myself face to face with a 6 year old with hockey pads & a helmet hurtling at me! Fortunately he was small enough that I scooped him up with my hands under his armpits and snowplowed to a stop. I said hello, asked him to be more careful, and set him down. Timing is everything.

Jon

[CanAmSk8ter]

I am a very big fan of Shut Up and Skate.

Which is why I like competing against you ;)


You know, I noticed at Nationals this week that there's a lot less trash-talking and whatnot in synchro. I think a big part of that is that the coaches are more stringent about not allowing it than they are in singles, because if someone overhears you you're not just looking like a jerk yourself, you're making your whole team look like poor sports. Also, if you want to talk negatively about other teams, you can do it back at the hotel or on the bus with your teammates; in singles you won't necessarily be with your friends after the competition so you have to do it at the rink where you're together.

Some of my teammates did say they had overheard girls talking negatively about teams they had competed against after they skated, but there was no beforehand intimidation that I saw/heard. In fact, most teams were really nice about wishing their competitors luck before they skated. (This kind of freaked out some of the singles skaters on my team who had never done synchro before, LOL). One of our younger teams even got a good-luck card from a competing team staying at our hotel. We did hear negative comments about our team from a competing team after we skated, but we all just laughed it off, because guess what? We beat them, which is another reason post-skate trash-talk is stupid: this is a subjective sport, and just because you think you should have beaten someone doesn't mean the judges will agree. We would have felt bad if we had oveheard this team's comments and they had beaten us, but since the judges didn't agree with them we just laughed it off.

I think sportsmanship really has to start with coaches (ideally it would start with parents, but there seem to be more and more of them that just don't do it). In Rudy Galindo's biography, he talks about how devastated he was the first time he didn't medal, and how his coach made him go shake hands with and congratualate the boys who had. There needs to be more of that.

[doubletoe]

My advice is to use the anger positively, to expect such behavior in a competitive sport, and if you really just can't handle it, then skate for fun because people aren't going to change, and really, if you're secure in your skating, then those people shouldn't matter. I know that I've read the adult track is supposed to be less competitive than the kids track, and I've never competed on the adult track, however I don't know why it should be any different, y'all are still competing against each other.

I appreciate your viewpoint and I like the idea of using the anger to fuel you in a positive way if you can't stop the other skaters' behavior. But I agree with the other adult who said it's a competition between different people's SKATING, not between different people themselves. I think the reason it's much less common in adult skating is that we are adults and 98% of us are mature enough to realize that the negative energy hurts all of us and isn't worth it. The other 2% are certainly a pain in the butt, though!

[fadedstardust]

I appreciate your viewpoint and I like the idea of using the anger to fuel you in a positive way if you can't stop the other skaters' behavior. But I agree with the other adult who said it's a competition between different people's SKATING, not between different people themselves. I think the reason it's much less common in adult skating is that we are adults and 98% of us are mature enough to realize that the negative energy hurts all of us and isn't worth it. The other 2% are certainly a pain in the butt, though!

When you said it's people's skating being judged against each skater, and not the people themselves, it got me thinking- when you are younger, you don't have very much else than skating. I know a lot of my friends have things I don't have and won't have til I'm done competing seriously. So if my skating does poorly, then I do poorly- cause it's pretty much all I have right now to define me as a person. So what I'm thinking is, could it be that those adults who are overly competitive and ruining your circle of friendship are in the same situation? Perhaps they have nothing else in their lives, and so they decide their self-worth on the fare of their skating? It wouldn't excuse their behavior, but it might shed some light as to why they are doing it.

Of course, some people are just jerks. :P

[iskatealot]

What I have noticed is that here in Canada at the Star Skate levels there are a ton of coaches holding their students back. It gets to the point sometimes where I wish my coach did the same because I go out for a Jr. Bronze warm up and I do my axel dbl sal and dbl loop and then see some 8year old Im against pull off a dble lutz dble loop combination or even once a triple toe dble toe combination. I would like to clairify that the highest required element on this level is an axel.
What annoys me the most however is the times when a certain one of one of the coaches students gets about an hour and a half of dance lesson time per week while the rest of us are given 15 minutes every other week. And it isnt like this girl is doing super high level dances either. she is just the coaches fav.
then there is this other girl at our rink who is about 10 and she stands around in the middle of the rink or she doesnt get out of your way no matter what you are doing........( example she stood in the middle of the rink during my program and then skated out behind me right as I was going into a dbl loop. I then had her mother come up to me and a girl I was talking to (a competitive skater who guest skates with our club once a week) and tell us how she thought her child would make a wonderful competitive skater. (this child doesnt work while on the ice and is 10 or 11 and cannot land a loop jump but has been skating for 3 or 4 years in Star Skate.
And finaly there is one other skater who came up yesterday as I was in a layback spin and stood a foot away from me and attempted to have a conversation........ My point of all of this being that peoples parents could watch and then review the rules for skating with their kids so that the little kids dont get hurt

[doubletoe]

When you said it's people's skating being judged against each skater, and not the people themselves, it got me thinking- when you are younger, you don't have very much else than skating. I know a lot of my friends have things I don't have and won't have til I'm done competing seriously. So if my skating does poorly, then I do poorly- cause it's pretty much all I have right now to define me as a person. So what I'm thinking is, could it be that those adults who are overly competitive and ruining your circle of friendship are in the same situation? Perhaps they have nothing else in their lives, and so they decide their self-worth on the fare of their skating? It wouldn't excuse their behavior, but it might shed some light as to why they are doing it.

Of course, some people are just jerks. :P

I think that's probably true. But then again, skating is the main focus in MY life (sshhh, don't tell my boss!) and I still manage to keep my perspective and be genuinely supportive of those I compete against. I think I've just learned that happiness comes from loving the process, not the result and I've also learned that you will ultimately fail to control other people no matter how hard you try, so it's best to limit your goals to those that don't involve anyone but yourself. KWIM? ;)

[Debbie S]

Of course, some people are just jerks. :P

Too true. :)

[Terri C]

There were some things that happened today at my rink that is right in line with what we've been discussing as far as the freestyle ice is concerned.

Today on my lesson, I was doing my straightline footwork into half-lutz, RFO 3 waltz-toe combo. As I approached my takeoff on the half lutz, I said "excuse me " to two pre teens in the corner. They didn't get the message and it scared the jeepers out of them when I did the 3 turn waltz toe within inches of them!
Then, during my program run through, I had to stop and start over, because as I was doing back crossovers into a Ina Bauer, no one would move. My coach had to remind me that I can always say "excuse me".
Lastly, one of the other skaters made a face at another coach that got in her way during her program run through on lesson. My coach made her go to the other coach and apologize.
As adult skaters, we are not always taken as seriously on the ice as the kids. Then, there's the "issue" that we are "supposedly" responsible if there is a collision because we "are the adult and know better"
Our money and freestyle time is just as green and precious!

[gowiththeflow]

But a big difference between kids and adults is that adults know how stupid it is to trash-talk, verbally and physically intimidate people, and try to psych out competitors in warm-up (as if I actually pay attention to what my competitors do in warm-up - someone could land an axel (I compete Pre-Bronze/Bronze) and I wouldn't know it). It's called maturity. Generally, we're not skating to make a career out of it (yes, I know there are exceptions), we're there b/c it's fun, and we focus on ourselves. I would expect parents to teach their kids that kicking competitors and trash-talking is wrong, but as a former teacher, I know there's a lot of stuff parents seem to not be teaching their kids these days. However, if you're an adult and think that it's normal to go around acting like an overgrown 10-year-old, there's something wrong with you, IMHO.

I've found that adults at competitions are very supportive of each other. While we are focused and want to do well, we have fun cheering on other skaters, b/c we know how hard it is to get out there. For example, after I finished my moves at the Bronze MIF comp at New Year's, the woman skating directly after me complimented me on my spirals (the straight-line spirals from Silver MIF) as she was getting on the ice (and I was coming off). I thanked her and wished her good luck. I'm sure most kids wouldn't do that to each other at their comps, unless they were friends from the same rink/club. But adults realize that we're out there for ourselves and not so much to beat others.

The adults that I've found to be quick to bad-mouth or make fun of other adults are the ones who don't compete themselves. They'd rather stand around at practice sessions and watch other adults running through programs and then laugh about them, or gossip about how they shouldn't have passed such-and-such test, or they're with the wrong coach, etc.. After all, why step out of your comfort zone and put yourself out to be judged when you can make fun of those who do? :roll: But they are a very small part of the adult skating community, thank goodness. Unfortunately, not everyone has matured beyond middle school. That's not to say that adults that don't compete are wrong; my point is that we should respect each other's skating decisions and efforts, no matter what people choose to do with their skating.


DEBBIE! Your post is disturbingly hypocritical, as if written by someone with a dual personality. Do you have a memory problem? Do you not have any concept of how others perceive you? Do you completely lack any insight into your own behavior or do you purposely write these things out of remorse for what you've done?

Your post about adult behavior is painful to read. Its so blatantly a third party confession. How can you write about the differences in adult Vs child skating behavior when you violate every single one of your points almost on a daily basis, both in competition and in practice? We've witnessed your childish, preteen behavior and your destructive, critical comments toward other adults, your tears and hysteria, your blaming and anger. We know you have nothing but disdain for your peers and that you'd do anything to sabotage their efforts. We've seen you standing around at the boards critiquing other adults and telling them they wo't pass their tests due to their errors. We've seen you fail to acknowledge others on the ice, failing to move out of their way when they were practicing dance patterns, moves in the field or their program and you do this deliberately. You act like a prima donna, as if you have so much boundless talent and potential! You run through your programs repeatedly, with no regard to anyone else who might like to play their music or get time to practice. You never smile or appear happy to be on the ice under any circumstances and you so obviously cannot handle the pressure of competing or testing. You're a train wreck! Why do you sit there on your computer pontificating to us as if we are morons or have no recent or long-term memory of what you've done? It is insulting to everyone!

It would be laughable if it weren't so tragic and pathetic. What you need to do is practice what you so indignantly preach because you are the epitome of dysfunctional adult skating and spoiled rotten little rich girl behavior. Enough already!

[Terri C]

Gowith the flow....
Please get a grip!!! You sound like a know it all, I'm better that yout type!

Oh and by the way, if you've seen Debbie S compete, you've probably seen me too- I'm also a Pre Bronze skater!

[NoVa Sk8r]

DEBBIE! Your post is disturbingly hypocritical, as if written by someone with a dual personality. Do you have a memory problem? Do you not have any concept of how others perceive you? Do you completely lack any insight into your own behavior or do you purposely write these things out of remorse for what you've done?

Your post about adult behavior is painful to read. Its so blatantly a third party confession. How can you write about the differences in adult Vs child skating behavior when you violate every single one of your points almost on a daily basis, both in competition and in practice? We've witnessed your childish, preteen behavior and your destructive, critical comments toward other adults, your tears and hysteria, your blaming and anger. We know you have nothing but disdain for your peers and that you'd do anything to sabotage their efforts. We've seen you standing around at the boards critiquing other adults and telling them they wo't pass their tests due to their errors. We've seen you fail to acknowledge others on the ice, failing to move out of their way when they were practicing dance patterns, moves in the field or their program and you do this deliberately. You act like a prima donna, as if you have so much boundless talent and potential! You run through your programs repeatedly, with no regard to anyone else who might like to play their music or get time to practice. You never smile or appear happy to be on the ice under any circumstances and you so obviously cannot handle the pressure of competing or testing. You're a train wreck! Why do you sit there on your computer pontificating to us as if we are morons or have no recent or long-term memory of what you've done? It is insulting to everyone!

It would be laughable if it weren't so tragic and pathetic. What you need to do is practice what you so indignantly preach because you are the epitome of dysfunctional adult skating and spoiled rotten little rich girl behavior. Enough already!Dude, what's with all the calumny and contumely? Seems utterly unnecessary to me. I've met Debbie a few times, and she seems very nice, well grounded, and highly supportive of all the skaters in competition. I cannot attest to her other antics that you so eloquently intersperse with your ad hominem attacks, but your venom sure took me by surprise.

I say, "Cool down hot sauce!"

[adrianchew]

I say die and rot in hell. :twisted:

gowiththeflow - get lost, and don't bother coming back.

[flo]

I've skated with Debbie, been at competitions with Debbie, and welcome her company any time.

Go with the flow.
How about just going. You. Now.

[sk8pics]

Wow, talk about someone with an agenda! Gowiththeflow, good bye.

Debbie--I'll skate with you any time.

Pat

[russiet]

DEBBIE! Your post is disturbingly hypocritical..... ..... Enough already!

Oh, my! Feeling a little grumpy today?

OK, I see 1 post under your "gowiththeflow". Perhaps this is really some kind of poorly executed joke?

I'm thinking it must be some one baiting us all to respond.

Jon

[Melzorina]

Has this person even seen Debbie skate?

I haven't, but according to all you guys, who are saying she's brilliant etc, she's either bullshitting, or thinks she saw Debbie, who in fact was someone else.

And I think she's now gone with the flow...of insults.

[fadedstardust]

Wow. It's sad that someone would actually make an account to bash on someone here. Gowiththeflow, if you feel this way towards Debbie, why don't you tell her in person since you seem to know her? Your post is pretty hypocritical as well.

PS: I don't know Debbie. But this is certainly not the right place to do this. I think that's just disgusting.

[little_huskie]

Hey Guys, I posted this thread to see if anyone else had similar experiences to mine, not to start a free for all personal attack forum. Lets all remember our love for skating and just get on with it. :D

[Melzorina]

Lets end that little feud here.
Nothing nasty can be said about any forum members underneath this post.
It's over.
The End.

[jazzpants]

GoWithTheFlow is a TROLL... who really should just... ummm... GO!!! :roll: (Hey! That rhymes!!!) :lol:

[mikawendy]

Has this person even seen Debbie skate?

I haven't, but according to all you guys, who are saying she's brilliant etc, she's either bullshitting, or thinks she saw Debbie, who in fact was someone else.

And I think she's now gone with the flow...of insults.

You've got it, Melzorina--for example, gowiththeflow is definitely WRONG about her/his/their assertion that Debbie plays her program music too much. I skate on the same ice as Debbie once or twice a week, and I've NEVER ever seen her hog the music machine. Some skaters on the session will play their program or dances twice in a session but usually once at the start and once later on, and I've never heard anyone complaining that they didn't get to do their program or dance. Anyone who has a problem with how the programs are played (or for anything else, for crud's sake) should take up the issue directly with the person involved, or if need be with a skating director or club (if it's club ice)--not make a cowardly anonymous attack on a board or through an e-mail.

[Melzorina]

It's pathetic really, to be honest that someone would go to the trouble to make an account, critisise someone, without leaving a name or anything, then running away. I see she/he/it hasn't replied to any of the posts we've made supporting Debbie. If I were them, I'd just say it to her face, or not say it at all. It obviously doesn't annoy this person enough to continue their argument.

And good riddance to that!

[passion]

The nasty behaviours demonstrated by some competitors just reflects badly on them, ie. it shows just how insecure they really are.

I've always believed that character is more important than what placing you recieve in a competition. In the big picture, that's whats going to leave an impression in people's mind. Not whether you missed your flip jump or got the highest mark. I have greater respect for the person who shows great sportsmanship than a winner who has a terrible attitude.

[passion]

[QUOTE=iskatealot]What I have noticed is that here in Canada at the Star Skate levels there are a ton of coaches holding their students back. It gets to the point sometimes where I wish my coach did the same because I go out for a Jr. Bronze warm up and I do my axel dbl sal and dbl loop and then see some 8year old Im against pull off a dble lutz dble loop combination or even once a triple toe dble toe combination. I would like to clairify that the highest required element on this level is an axel.


Okay, I just have to say "this is nuts!". Triple jumps in junior bronze?!!!!!! But what's the point? It's no longer a competition for that skater. It's a false sense of success. To really measure their success relative to other skaters, they need to be skating against skaters who are doing similar jumps. THEN you see how they measure up to other people.

[samba]

Over here it's a bit more subtle, in the adult section, you get high level dancers competing in low level free competitions and these are usually based more on style than jumps and spins so you know they are going to win before they even get on the ice. :roll:

[Mrs Redboots]

Over here it's a bit more subtle, in the adult section, you get high level dancers competing in low level free competitions and these are usually based more on style than jumps and spins so you know they are going to win before they even get on the ice. :roll:You also get it the other way round, too - high level free skaters competing in low-level dance competitions. But that's okay if they have only just started dance, and they usually test up and out of our orbit pretty soon.... But while they're there, they usually win as they have the speed and flow that most of us lumbering adults lack! Even though they obviously look like a free skater dancing, not like a dancer.

[samba]

mmm... interesting, as you know Annabel I dont normally observe dance, so wouldnt have noticed, but will certainly this year as I hope to compete, but for those who dont know me, high level free skater....only in my dreams.

PS Glad your'e back on the ice again.

Take care
Grace

[Elsy2]

[QUOTE=Mrs Redboots]You also get it the other way round, too - high level free skaters competing in low-level dance competitions. But that's okay if they have only just started dance, and they usually test up and out of our orbit pretty soon.... QUOTE]

So true. Those of you who know me, know I've been a test chair for years. The very first session I organized had 33 dance tests. Two of the skaters tested the first nine dances all in that session. One passed all nine, and the other passed eight. We also had another singles skater pass seven dances that day, from Swing Dance up thru 14 step.
All 3 of these skaters were singles skaters. I think one was at Pre-juv. level, one Intermediate, and one Senior level.

What a session that was!

[samba]

Well dont expect too much when you see me, this will be my first dance open and probably my last :oops:

[Mrs Redboots]

Well dont expect too much when you see me, this will be my first dance open and probably my last :oops:I'm sure you'll be fine. Which qualifier are you doing, Coventry or Bracknell? We're away for Coventry, so it will have to be Bracknell.

[samba]

I'm sure you'll be fine. Which qualifier are you doing, Coventry or Bracknell? We're away for Coventry, so it will have to be Bracknell.
Thanks Annabel, Bracknell for me too.

[slusher]

What I have noticed is that here in Canada at the Star Skate levels there are a ton of coaches holding their students back.


Test requirement for Junior Bronze: Lutz & Axel (and you could fail both if you hit everything else).
Seen in competition: Double lutz-double loop combo.

Test requirement for pre-preliminary (two levels below Jr. Bronze): Flip
Seen in competition: Double salchow. Flying camel/change camel.

What does it do for a skater? Confidence sure, but the competition is insane because this is the new norm. It is almost better to test up as high as you can because there are less skaters. And, although coaches ( and those that do this are well known) are absolutely the ringleaders in the "holding back", the parents of the kids who are winning are willing participants as well. You can't tell me that a parent doesn't realize that little Suzy with her double salchow is not is the same category as someone hopping out on their flip.


Although, to say that the competitive level is equally as nuts, take pre-novice ladies for example. Uh-huh. That attitude is coming into the rec categories unfortunately.

[Elsy2]

This topic just continues to facinate me....and so here I go posting on what is probably a finished thread.

Competition requirements here in the US Midwest haven't really changed all that much since my daughter started competing in 1998.

Requirements taken from a typical entry from the Midwest for competition in May, 2005:

Pre-prelim. - No axels or doubles
Preliminary A - Axels allowed, no doubles
Preliminary B - Axel and 2 doubles allowed
Pre-juvenile - Axel and 4 doubles allowed

As I recall back in 1999, Preliminary A was no axels, and Preliminary B was axels allowed at most events, doubles allowed at some. So things have escalated a bit.

Test levels have always been about meeting the minimum requirements for that level. We have always had the dilema of skaters not testing that level until they can be somewhat competitive. And so we have competitive elements in levels that are not required in testing until two or three levels higher. (For example, axel is tested at Juvenile level, two levels higher than Prelim.)

I guess my point is that things really haven't changed all that much in the years I've been involved in competition.
Perhaps they have gotten a bit crazier at qualifying levels from what I hear. But it's been crazy all along.

I just wanted to clarify that there are some restrictions in place. You can find local competitions where you can be successful without skating skills several levels higher.......you learn which ones are tougher than others.

[phoenix]

Over here it's a bit more subtle, in the adult section, you get high level dancers competing in low level free competitions and these are usually based more on style than jumps and spins so you know they are going to win before they even get on the ice. :roll:

This really isn't our fault--I'm a fairly high level dancer, but I can NOT spin well at all. This isn't for lack of trying--I actually took 5 years off from dance & did freestyle--I have a VERY travelling scratch spin, a backspin that might get 5 revolutions (though it's really usually a twizzle, as there aren't the nice loops on the ice), & a barely recognizable sit spin which I usually can't get back out of. I took the adult bronze test once & failed it. I'm sure I could pass it now, but silver would be impossible, as you need a camel spin. So the highest I could compete right now is bronze, with my pathetic little spins, but with great flow & footwork. Oh, and no lutz either.

What can I do? At the moment, I don't compete. :cry:

[Elsy2]

, What can I do? At the moment, I don't compete. :cry:

Phoenix. I have competed up to bronze when I was pre-bronze, and then went and passed the bronze FS in order to avoid the moves test. (I admit it!)

I did well competing without a lutz or even a consistent flip.
My sit is a squat, and my camel/scratch was too upright and 3 revs for the camel part at best. I have watched alot of bronze level events, and often spins are not the strong point.

You can make quite the impression with speed, flow, and footwork at the bronze level. I encourage you to go for it, and as I learned from my daughter's judges critiques......put the elements in your program that you can actually do. It's so obvious when you put something in that is nowhere near consistent, although I think a program should challenge you. ( we would put in one or two elements in progress to force you to practice them....).

You can compete pre-bronze or skate up to bronze in most competitions. I competed pre-bronze when I hadn't tested anything.

Give it a try and just have fun!

[phoenix]

You can make quite the impression with speed, flow, and footwork at the bronze level. I encourage you to go for it, and as I learned from my daughter's judges critiques......

You can compete pre-bronze or skate up to bronze in most competitions. I competed pre-bronze when I hadn't tested anything.


Thanks for your reply, Elsy2---but that's kind of the problem, in keeping with the theme of this thread: while my freestyle elements are well within what's common at bronze level (or even below it!), my footwork/presentation would be far beyond it because of my test level/training in ice dance. So people would think I was sandbagging--when I really wouldn't be!

[Elsy2]

Oh, I misunderstood.......Yes, when I've seen a skater with impressive speed and flow at pre-bronze or bronze, the consensus of the other skaters is usually that they skated as kids and have a huge advantage.

OK, I'll have to think further on your problem! I think it's a shame for you to miss out on the fun of competition. I'd go ahead and do a local one and see how it goes. Definitely skate up to bronze. Odds are someone's elements will be better and it won't be as much an issue as you think.

[NCSkater02]

Oh, I misunderstood.......Yes, when I've seen a skater with impressive speed and flow at pre-bronze or bronze, the consensus of the other skaters is usually that they skated as kids and have a huge advantage.


Or, they could be life-long dancers. I know a couple of local skaters that are both beautiful skaters, with less than two years of skating under their belts. Both are dancers, and it shows in their carriage. They also picked up the different skills very quickly. One of them did tell me that the difference in body position was difficult for her to transition.

[Mrs Redboots]

Although I do think that dancers doing free skating look an awful lot better than free skaters dancing! One of my friends is just starting free skating after many (successful) years as a dancer, and she tells me she puts on the brakes really hard going into her jumps.... I can visualise it, because I do, too! And she will be a very great deal better technically than I am (although I still think my twizzles are better than hers, which is something I'm VERY PROUD of!).

[starskate6.0]

But a big difference between kids and adults is that adults know how stupid it is to trash-talk, verbally and physically intimidate people, and try to psych out competitors in warm-up (as if I actually pay attention to what my competitors do in warm-up - someone could land an axel (I compete Pre-Bronze/Bronze) and I wouldn't know it). It's called maturity. Generally, we're not skating to make a career out of it (yes, I know there are exceptions), we're there b/c it's fun, and we focus on ourselves. I would expect parents to teach their kids that kicking competitors and trash-talking is wrong, but as a former teacher, I know there's a lot of stuff parents seem to not be teaching their kids these days. However, if you're an adult and think that it's normal to go around acting like an overgrown 10-year-old, there's something wrong with you, IMHO.

I've found that adults at competitions are very supportive of each other. While we are focused and want to do well, we have fun cheering on other skaters, b/c we know how hard it is to get out there. For example, after I finished my moves at the Bronze MIF comp at New Year's, the woman skating directly after me complimented me on my spirals (the straight-line spirals from Silver MIF) as she was getting on the ice (and I was coming off). I thanked her and wished her good luck. I'm sure most kids wouldn't do that to each other at their comps, unless they were friends from the same rink/club. But adults realize that we're out there for ourselves and not so much to beat others.

The adults that I've found to be quick to bad-mouth or make fun of other adults are the ones who don't compete themselves. They'd rather stand around at practice sessions and watch other adults running through programs and then laugh about them, or gossip about how they shouldn't have passed such-and-such test, or they're with the wrong coach, etc.. After all, why step out of your comfort zone and put yourself out to be judged when you can make fun of those who do? :roll: But they are a very small part of the adult skating community, thank goodness. Unfortunately, not everyone has matured beyond middle school. That's not to say that adults that don't compete are wrong; my point is that we should respect each other's skating decisions and efforts, no matter what people choose to do with their skating.

As they say in my country " good onya Debbie" ( good for you in english)
Star...