What's this move called?

[Casey]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/155209166X/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-1922284-0864012#reader-link

The bent leg is crossed in front of the trailing leg, the person is travelling CCW, and she is leaning back towards the inside of the circle, looking at the ceiling (thank goodness for that slight bit of peripheral vision). I know this because I do this move nearly every time I go skating, but I haven't got a clue what it is.

[TashaKat]

Hi, I don't know if it has an actual name, I've certainly never heard it called anything :)

It's just an artistic gliding move really isn't it? Maybe we can 'invent' one and copyright it and then charge people every time they use it :D

[Melzorina]

It looks like they've taken the photo in mid crossover.

[NickiT]

Hmmm....that kind of looks familiar. My coach likes that sort of movement as a connecting step. I had it in my programme between elements.

Nicki

[Skate@Delaware]

Yeah, except for the arms, it looks like a crossover move (like the exercises our instructor has us do-cross over and hold the leg that's under so that both blades are still on the ice at the same time-yikes! 8O )

Terry

PS-I bought that book for my daughter-she really likes it but she is a teenager and doesn't reference it enough.... (sigh)

[jazzpants]

Yeap! Looks like it's in mid-crossovers/progressive. It can be done as a connecting step though, but I did those as exercises for crossovers/progressives. Looks harder than it looks...

[icedancer2]

It looks like the person is doing crossovers -- BUT she could also be doing an entrance to a back inside hydroblade maneuver.

Interesting.

[vesperholly]

The person is Lu Chen, FWIW. :)

[Casey]

Aye, the feet are crossed, but you can hold this pose for a full circle or two or three...as you lean back and inside the rear leg leans back and crosses further to support you, and it's not that hard at all. :)

I first started doing this by just holding a crossover ard facing forward and to the inside of the circle, as one does when doing crossovers. Then just turn the upper body towards the outside and practice that for a while. Then get brave and lean back and look up at the ceiling, keeping an eye on the fleeting glimpses that might be people in your peripheral vision. ;) Then when you decide to exit it, the body just straightens, the rear leg comes forward, and the legs uncross - at least that's how I do it...

I use the same sort of held crossover for a hydroblade entry, but lean forward onto the forward knee and lift the rear leg off the ice while keeping it in the crossed over position.

The book itself isn't so hot, it's the one that advises you to T-stop with the inside edge. I'm so glad now that I got over that nonsense. It does have some useful information, but take it with a grain of salt for flavor.

[fadedstardust]

Yeah I'm pretty sure she's just doing a crossover. I've never seen an elite lady such as Yuka Sato hold a crossover edge on two feet for choreography, at least she'd lift the bottom foot off or something, otherwise that really wouldn't get you any points at all. Gliding on two feet is rarely part of a succesful program's choreography. She was probably doing a crossover before heading into something, like mohawk / back crossover / spin. That's what it looks like she's about to do, but obviously I have no clue if that's true. It's a great picture to show people who aren't grasping how MUCH the bottom foot needs to sweep past the front foot in crossovers though, I think it's good for a book such as this one. Although I agree, the contents are crap. Most of these books' contents are crap, though. I think teaching yourself from a book is more dangerous than picking moves up from a videotape, and that isn't saying much. I always loved how they'd have a section for a certain jump, and then for doubles and triples all they would say is "pull your arms in tighter". Hah, not that simple. One of them totally butchered the diagram of a toe loop, too. I remember I had a debate with a coach once cause I truly believed the toe loop was supposed to be take off edge, toepick in between, then landing edge, and my coach said it was toepick next to takeoff edge, then landing edge, and that book agreed with me. Only, that book was wrong. Heh. Coach was right, as always.

[Casey]

Although I agree, the contents are crap. Most of these books' contents are crap, though.
I like how it has one or two pages including mostly the big picture diagram for each jump, and the order it chooses to present them goes like this: Waltz, Axel, Double Axel, Triple Axel, Salchow (to it's credit it does say that this is what you should learn after the Waltz, so who knows why Axel comes first), Double Salchow, ... ;)

[TashaKat]

Yeah I'm pretty sure she's just doing a crossover. I've never seen an elite lady such as Yuka Sato hold a crossover edge on two feet for choreography, at least she'd lift the bottom foot off or something, otherwise that really wouldn't get you any points at all. Gliding on two feet is rarely part of a succesful program's choreography. She was probably doing a crossover before heading into something, like mohawk / back crossover / spin.

She's not positioned right for it to be a crossover and her skating leg isn't bent enough. If you look at the tracing on the ice it's a definite glide. She doesn't have to have been doing it for an eligible competition!


I think it's good for a book such as this one. Although I agree, the contents are crap. Most of these books' contents are crap, though

I wish I was as arro... sorry, confident as you!

I'm not saying that it's good to learn from books rather than having proper professional tuition but you are very dismissive :roll:

Jimmy Young (http://www.skatepro.f9.co.uk/) is a professional Ice Dance coach and has coached pupils who have competed in Europeans, Worlds and the Winter Olympics. He competed internationally and got the NISA Gold Test when it meant something and not many skaters got it and especially didn't pass first time like he did! He coaches abroad as a guest coach and has recently worked as guest international coach at the United States Figure Skating Olympic Squad Camp in Colorado Springs.

[Petlover]

My coach would call it a Jenkins. It's a really fun move!

[fadedstardust]

I wish I was as arro... sorry, confident as you!


I'm not sure how it is qualified as arrogant to know your craft and to know when something is false. I would call it informed, if anything. But yes, I'm quite confident that I know when something is wrong considering how long I've been skating and how many reliable coaches I've been taught by. I definitely trust them more than some random book. I obviously don't know everything about skating, and never will, but I know what the tracing of a toeloop should look like on the ice, and what it shouldn't. If that is arrogance then I guess I'm glad I am oh-so-arrogant, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten all that far in this sport. Knowledge=arrogance. Duely noted.

[dbny]

fadedstardust, I believe TashaKat was defending Jimmy Young and took offense that you dissed a book that you hadn't actually read yourself, and a coach of whom you had little knowledge, while she has quite a bit herself.


As far as accuracy in such books goes, take a look at the PSA MIF tapes. If they can show such glaring mistakes as they do, why can't a book written for recreational skaters have a few errors? At any rate, there are many elements about which technique can be argued, and certainly there is more than one way to teach any given element.

[Casey]

Duely noted.
<arrogance=spelling>Duly ;) </arrogance>

[fadedstardust]

fadedstardust, I believe TashaKat was defending Jimmy Young and took offense that you dissed a book that you hadn't actually read yourself, and a coach of whom you had little knowledge, while she has quite a bit herself.


As far as accuracy in such books goes, take a look at the PSA MIF tapes. If they can show such glaring mistakes as they do, why can't a book written for recreational skaters have a few errors? At any rate, there are many elements about which technique can be argued, and certainly there is more than one way to teach any given element.

..then perhaps she should have taken a look at the very sentence she quoted me as saying- which stated that I believed MOST of these books to be crap, not all of them. And just because a book is allowed room for mistakes, like anything and anyone else in the world, doesn't mean these mistakes don't make the book unuseful for its purposes, and thus, crap.

Meanwhile, to stay on my particular argument, there may be more than one way to TEACH a toe loop, but there is only one way it should be executed in regards to the resulting tracing on the ice. Either it's correct, or it isn't, it's not a debateable topic. A toe axel is wrong, and that is what the book I gave example of in my argument (which I forget the title of but features a couple in blue skating together on the cover, and I believe is called "The School of Figure Skating" or something similar) was teaching people to do. I wasn't even talking about the particular book which is mentioned in this thread, and I'm pretty sure I made that relatively clear to anyone without an agenda. Incidentally, Tashakat, while I have absolutely nothing against her, seems to leave me snide remarks on repeated occasions. Coincidence, probably, but I'm still allowed to get a little annoyed after repeated pseudo-insults (I mean if you wanna say arrogant, then just say it), and to point out that arrogance really has nothing to do with whether or not I point out that a book printed wrong information and thus makes it unhelpful. Sometimes, I swear, I don't even know how people can take offense to such generalized comments. I'm supposed to understand someone getting offended about a book I didn't even criticize, but I should let an unjustified comment about my own person roll off the cuff. That makes sense...

[fadedstardust]

<arrogance=spelling>Duly ;) </arrogance>

Haha, thanks! I actually really hesitated between the two. I'm glad you corrected me, now I know! :D

[Tessie]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/155209166X/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-1922284-0864012#reader-link

The bent leg is crossed in front of the trailing leg, the person is travelling CCW, and she is leaning back towards the inside of the circle, looking at the ceiling (thank goodness for that slight bit of peripheral vision). I know this because I do this move nearly every time I go skating, but I haven't got a clue what it is.

One of the instructors at our rink (she's well over 60) would call it a Shipstad. As in Shipstad & Johnson's Ice Follies - for those of you over 40 that may remember that ice show production.

[Isk8NYC]

I did this move in my competition programs years ago. I remember my coach calling it a "Side Lunge." It's just a gliding maneuver, but getting in the position with the upper body turned away from the direction of the skating is tough.

It's fun to do and impressive once you've mastered it -- I still practice it when I skate for myself. Here's how to do it CCW:

Start with a forward two-foot glide.
Slide your right foot across and s-t-r-e-t-c-h into that side lunge position
Counter-balance by twisting your upper body to bring the left shoulder forward.
Once you've mastered this, it's just a matter of working to perfect the position.

I always end it by bringing the feet together and turning it into a spreadeagle.

BTW - if the left foot were lifted off the ice, it would be a Jenkins or Forward Undercut spiral, per the ISI rulebook.

[Mrs Redboots]

A lot of our skaters do this sort of move now; I don't know why, when it's on two feet, but I've seen it done time & again in programmes (and will probably incorporate it into my next artistic, if I have one). It actually looks very good, when properly done.