Double Axel...

[Dustin]

I need some help. I keep hooking the entrance on the 2 axel, but not on the single. I have had countless people tell me just to do it like a single but pull in tighter, well, it isnt that easy.

It was recently suggested to me to 'skid' slightly on the entrance to make sure I don't hook. Well that is another problem, I can't skid it!

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to either get rid of the hook or suggestions for helping me skid? THis is getting really frustrating because when I did skid it once, it felt so perfect (I fell but it was straight, 8 or 9 inches high and fully rotated). I know if I could only skid into it I would have it easily. :? :cry:

[Careygram]

Are you going into the double slower than on the single? I know I slow down a little and the slower I go the harder I have to resist hooking it. I don't skid it but I do try to get my left toe pick to turn faster and I pull in a little tighter. I think part of it is mental too. Hope that helps. I've only landed one clean in my life time but that's enough for me. Especially as I had a few witnesses so now I can die happy. Did you notice when you started on the double axel that the timing on the single got a little screwed up at first?

[melanieuk]

LOL, I haven't a clue, cos I can't do an axel. Although it's come close a few times... :roll:

How does it feel [i:d35764bc64]without [/i:d35764bc64]the skid?
Can't you work on it without the skid instead of learning a whole new way to do it? Maybe the skid will come on its own?

I imagine the skidding foot's heel would have to come forwards a little - would that mean your weight was slightly back a bit instead of slightly forward?
The hips would have to be open?
I'm just clutching at straws here, can you tell?

What causes the skid anyway?
Is it the kicking up leg (before it kicks up and rather when it goes behind to kick up?) that gives the power for the skating foot to skid?

Well done anyway. On even thinking about trying it! :wink:

I have a friend that could help......

[Dustin]

I have been doing them off and on for 3 years, mostly 1/4 or less cheated. But they have never been really consitent -more like a once a month thing except for around January when I had them somewhat consistent. Since then, I have lost them (I took 4 weeks off of working on them) and now I can't stop hooking it. I go into it slower than a single, but it still hooks.

To skid, the hips must be slightly turned into the rotation and the upper body straight (this helps because sometiems my upperbody rotates faster than the legs).

It really isn't a problem of rotating fast because I can do a 3 axel off the ice and I have already had a very fast rotation, the problem is getting into the axel on good edge/skid.

The weird thing is when I do a single, they are high, open, with only a very small hook. I think most of it is mental but I know I can do it easily if I could only get the right edge. :(

Thanks for the suggestions :) I'll be working on it tonight, hopefully I can get it a little better.

[melanieuk]

OK, I'm quoting a friend here, who could do 2 axels with ease.

"jump out the circle. kick through with right leg - out the circle. no skid needed..."

[b:b6370f851f]For the triple you need a skid to get the rotation[/b:b6370f851f]......that's from my coach (20 years service, Level 5 UK, international skaters)

I'll ask coach to elaborate on how to get the skid.

[Dustin]

Thanks Melanie. :)

[rinsk]

Are you checking enough on your set-up? I do a nice hook stepping into my single axel because I have a nasty habit of opening my hips too much when I step forward and twisting my left shoulder too far back. (Doesn't happen with waltz jumps which are very nicely controlled and look like they can easily turn into axels but I just plain old panic going into axel).

Dunno if this helps. I've been trying to look at my waltz and axel take-offs and figure out what happens differently. Axel from a stand-still without the backwards set-up seems to be helping me lose the hook. Maybe try double axel from a stand still?

Good luck.

[Lars]

I'm also working on my double axel at the moment. I started just about 2/3 months ago and now it's getting more and more consistent. My problem comes at the landing when I just do not snap out enough but my take offs are fine so here is my advice.. when going into the jump, make sure everything is at 90 degrees (I know it sounds odd) - like before going into the jump, make sure the takeoff skate is perpendicular to the backward 'kicking' skate so that the body is taking off forwards and not too far into or out of the circle. When preparing to take off - lean slightly forward and make sure the 'kicking' leg is perpendicular to your legs, your shoulders and squared and your arms are behind you. The 'skid' should then come naturally if you do it correctly. Do not rush the take off and take your time. I hope it works out fine.

[Dustin]

Originally posted by Lars
I'm also working on my double axel at the moment. I started just about 2/3 months ago and now it's getting more and more consistent. My problem comes at the landing when I just do not snap out enough but my take offs are fine so here is my advice.. when going into the jump, make sure everything is at 90 degrees (I know it sounds odd) - like before going into the jump, make sure the takeoff skate is perpendicular to the backward 'kicking' skate so that the body is taking off forwards and not too far into or out of the circle. When preparing to take off - lean slightly forward and make sure the 'kicking' leg is perpendicular to your legs, your shoulders and squared and your arms are behind you. The 'skid' should then come naturally if you do it correctly. Do not rush the take off and take your time. I hope it works out fine.

Thanks, and a tip for pulling out that my coach learned from Frank Carroll at one of those coaches conventions. Stand on the step that you would use to get off the rink and stand in your rotation position. Then jump back and the second your foot hits the ice, pull out and back sure your upperbody doesnt "cave" or go forward, hot it up straight with an arched back.

[Lars]

Thanks Dustin for the information!. So when I stand on the step, do I stand facing forward to the ice? and do I need to rotate (that is more than half a turn)?


Originally posted by Dustin


Thanks, and a tip for pulling out that my coach learned from Frank Carroll at one of those coaches conventions. Stand on the step that you would use to get off the rink and stand in your rotation position. Then jump back and the second your foot hits the ice, pull out and back sure your upperbody doesnt "cave" or go forward, hot it up straight with an arched back.

[Dustin]

Just stand with your back facing the ice, but on the step, make sure you areon your toes (we dont want your blades to get dull ;)) and just jump back, smaller at first then a little higher. No need to rotate or jump too high.

[melanieuk]

Hi Dustin...
My coach told me this: (obviously all coaches are different and have differing opinions, but based on her experience.....)

"No, a skid is not necessary on an axel. [single]
It is easier to get the consistency on double axel with a skid and you get a much better jump. A triple axel would be very difficult off a clean edge. I have never seen it done.

***A skater1*** could never skid on the 2axel and I think that is why she had so many problems with it.

***A skater2*** used to take off a clean edge on double axel but Mishin changed it at a squad camp and it is now more consistent."

[Dustin]

Thanks, Im skating again tonight, we'll see how it goes.8O

[melanieuk]

Good luck. Think positive.

How does your coach tell you how to get the skid?

[Dustin]

My coach really hasn't had a chance yet. She has been out of town and it was her birthday today so she wasnt at the rink. My problem is I can skid during a walkthrough but when I comes time to do it in the jump, I just can't! I am hoping this will come with time. :cry: