Moving from ISI to USFSA

[luckeylasvegas]

My daughter has been skating for 2 years and is competing in freetstyle 3 . Her coach said she may be ready for USFSA competetions next year. What is the difference between the two. We love her coach and follow what ever he suggests but I like to consider myself as informed as possible.

Luckey :?:

[CanAmSk8ter]

ISI is recreational- there's a big variation from rink to rink in how well skills have to be done to pass from level to level, and the emphasis is on skating for fun. At competitions, everyone gets a medal and the emphasis is on personal basts and having fun.

USFSA, beyond the learn-to-skate divisions, is competitive. Beyond the first two tests, which are encouragement tests (but skaters do occasionally fail them!), skaters are expected to not just do the elements but to do them well. Landing the jumps isn't going to mean passing the test if there isn't sufficient speed, flow, and power into and out of them and throughout the program. Skaters are tested by judges, not their coaches like in ISI. I'd highly suggest taking your daughter to watch a USFS test session before she takes a test. The lowest level at most USFS competitions is Beginner or No-Test, so she can compete USFS before she's tested. If she's only ISI FS3 right now, I'd guess that's what her coach is thinking of for next year.

The biggest difference between USFS and ISI is that in ISI, you're only allowed to do the elements from your level, and doing elements from a higher level is going to result in deductions. In USFS, doing only elements from your level will result in last place every time. For example, on the Pre-Preliminary Freestyle test, the hardest required jump is either a single salchow or single loop (I don't have my rulebook at the moment). However, Pre-Prelim at competitions is often divided into two categories, one allowing an axel and one not. (The axel is not a required element on a test until three levels later). Even the girls competing without an axel have all of their single jumps, usually a lutz-loop or lutz-loop-loop combination; good spins, usually some in combination with a backspin or back sit; and much better speed than the Freestyle-level kids. I often watch these competitions and find myself thinking, "There's no way that kid isn't landing an axel in practice." At a lot of USFS competitions, the top skaters in any level would place somewhere in the middle of the next level.

Probably the best way to get a handle on this (and kudos to you for doing so, I wish more parents did) is to get a rule book, get familiar with the test requirements at the first few levels, and then go watch a couple of low-level USFS competitions with your daughter. Notice the kind of speed and power the kids have, and note what's being done in competitions versus the test requirements (this varies a bit in different parts of the country- I assume from your screen name that you're in the Pacific Southwest, which is one of the more competitive areas of the country. Southern California has a lot of excellent young skaters).

Most importantly, make sure your daughter continues to have fun with skating. Since USFS focuses less on personal bests and fun than ISI, it's up to parents and coaches to emphasize that with young skaters. Let us know if you have any other questions- I know the ISI to USFS transition is a confusing one!

[dbny]

I agree with CanAmSk8ter, and would add that you should be careful not to let your daughter test farther than she wants to compete. USFS has paired tests in Freestyle and Moves In The Field. Instead of MITF, ISI just has a dance step sequence for that aspect of skating, whereas MITF consists of a separate test with six to eight elements. The MITF test has to be passed before the skater can take the Freestyle test at the same level. If your daughter does not have a solid Axel, then she should test no higher than Pre-Preliminary in freestyle, but can test in Moves as far as she likes without affecting her competitive status. There are kids competing in NoTest who do Axels, if allowed.

One more note - USFS is a lot more expensive than ISI. USFS test sessions can cost $30 to $80 per skater, depending on the test, and whether or not the skater belongs to the sponsoring club (another expense).

[luckeylasvegas]

Thanks for your help ! The great thing about her coach is he's harder on her than most ISI judges. If she doesn't do it perfectly and consistently then she hasn't yet mastered the skill. Other skaters with differnt coaches have passed her but I watch them and even I know that they can't do a skill correctly. She han't started her axel yet so I guess we have time to wait and see.
Thanks again !
Luckey

[twokidsskatemom]

Isi is supposed to be age related ie 6 -8, 8 to 10 ect. in Usfsa its just under 10 over 10.after you start testing
She can compete at any time in basis skills or non test. My 5 yo competes in both Isi and Usfsa.She did an Isi in november, isi next month and a non test Usfsa in may
Huge difference with testing at a level and competing at that level.In isi you cant have a jump that is above that level, in usfsa they can have higher level skills.
ISI has alot more things to do, in usfsa its limited.
Happy skating !!!
And I would tell you to get a rulebook. I have both and they are helpful!!

[Mel On Ice]

even as an adult, I can tell you the culture shock of going from ISI to USFSA is a jolt to the ego. I was doing great at ISI 2 and 3, winning nearly everything I entered, then I did a USFSA adult bronze competition and came in dead last. Why? I only did the required elements for passing bronze while my competitors did lutz-loops and camel spins. I learned to up the ante, but ouch, did that hurt!

just remember: ISI=recreational and USFSA=competitive

[dbny]

just remember: ISI=recreational and USFSA=competitive

Or, as I've heard ISI officials say "ISI is inclusive, USFSA is exclusive".

[CanAmSk8ter]

Isi is supposed to be age related ie 6 -8, 8 to 10 ect. in Usfsa its just under 10 over 10.

And sometimes not even that. Almost all USFS Open competitions have more than one group of skaters at the lower levels, usually 8 or so in each group, and they do it roughly by age; howver, I've seen competitions where there were only enough kids for two groups and the "older group" had girls who looked ten and girls who looked sixteen; I've also seen competitions with a lot of older pre-pres where the "younger" group had girls as young as seven and as old as twelve. This doesn't always happen, but it's something to be prepared for.

[fadedstardust]

I think ISI tries to give USFS a bad rap just because it's more "popular" and taken more seriously. USFS is not "exclusive", just like ISI, anyone who takes the tests can enter most competitions, and they even have a no test level. It's a completely different kind of program with a completely different kind of goal. You can't go and expect to be treated the same way by an organization that promotes skating for fun as the organization that selects which skaters go to the Olympics. You get what you sign up for.

[luckeylasvegas]

On average how many hours a week do USFS skaters spend at the rink ?
My daughter is aready putting in about 6 1/2 hours spead out through 3 days.
Luckey
I'm talking 8 year olds not teenagers looking to be in the Olympics.

[Lenny2]

This depends completely on the goals and interests of your skater. At eight years old, skating two sessions, three times a week may be fine. You will find, however, that there are some eight-year-olds who skate six days a week, three hours a day, who can land all the double jumps, and who have started working on a double axel. It varies wildly. Once your skater lands an axel well (and, I mean a real axel, not one revolution with another half turn on the ice), she will be ready to start working on double jumps and will probably want to spend more time at the rink. It is completely up to you, your skater, and her coach. Be mindful not to compare your skater to others and keep your own goals in mind. If you feel that she is not progressing at a pace that you think is sufficient, then you might want to consider spending a little more time at the rink.

[dbny]

I think ISI tries to give USFS a bad rap just because it's more "popular" and taken more seriously. USFS is not "exclusive", just like ISI, anyone who takes the tests can enter most competitions, and they even have a no test level. It's a completely different kind of program with a completely different kind of goal. You can't go and expect to be treated the same way by an organization that promotes skating for fun as the organization that selects which skaters go to the Olympics. You get what you sign up for.

I don't think ISI tries to give USFS a bad rap at all. I think it's absolutely true that ISI is inclusive and USFS is exclusive. It is the nature of the organizations and comes from the very different goals that you have pointed out. Only by a process of elimination (exclusion) can the USFS determine which skaters should go to the Worlds, Olympics, and other international competitions. Since ISI is not involved in that process, it has room for everyone, and is, therefor, inclusive.

A side effect of the USFS exclusion process is that in some areas there are not enough non-qualifying competitions for skaters who are not headed up the ladder. Also, because of the exclusion process, skaters who test to the limit of their (current) ability in USFS pretty much always find themselves out gunned in competition.

[CanAmSk8ter]

On average how many hours a week do USFS skaters spend at the rink ?
My daughter is aready putting in about 6 1/2 hours spead out through 3 days.
Luckey
I'm talking 8 year olds not teenagers looking to be in the Olympics.

I'd say for a no-tester that sounds about right. Most of the kids that I know at that age and level are on the ice four days a week but only for an hour or so at a time. Like someone else said, when she starts seriously working on the axel and doubles her coach will probably want her practicing a bit more; it's a real balancing act to put in enough time on the higher jumps to get them while continuing to put in adequate time on moves in the field, spins, program runthroughs, and improving the quality of the single loop, flip, and lutz in preparation for starting those doubles.

[twokidsskatemom]

And sometimes not even that. Almost all USFS Open competitions have more than one group of skaters at the lower levels, usually 8 or so in each group, and they do it roughly by age; howver, I've seen competitions where there were only enough kids for two groups and the "older group" had girls who looked ten and girls who looked sixteen; I've also seen competitions with a lot of older pre-pres where the "younger" group had girls as young as seven and as old as twelve. This doesn't always happen, but it's something to be prepared for.

Ot but I understand.My skater was just in an ISI comp.She should have been by herself per level/age, under 6.But we wanted her to be used to not getting first, so her coach put her in with the 8,9 and 10 1/2 yo kids.We talked to her about not getting first, as they had better muscles, extension and so on.When she starts testing, she will be with the older kids so its like looking at the future.Its not just all about the medals, just doing her best.
She came in first and second, even with the age difference.
As far as time, I think adding a forth day might help if she wants to compete.It really seems to be a very time intensive sport.Practice really helps.Off ice helps.
Good luck !!