How much skating is too much?

[Casey]

Hey everyone,

I currently book about 15 hours on the ice plus 3 hours of ballet class per week.

As my last day at work is next Wednesday, and there will probably be some downtime before I find another job, I intend to to go skating a lot more, as the rink near my house has a 4 hour public session every midday.

I have a lot of endurance (I skate 6 hours on Saturdays without too much difficulty), so my AOSS seems to dictate that I'll try going to the midday sessions in addition to the evening sessions when they're available, plus weekends - assuming I don't find myself exhausted and needing a day or two off. This sounds like great fun, but I worry that that much time on the ice might be dangerous. On the other hand I want to take advantage of the opportunity and skate as much as I can.

Could anybody lend advice on how much time is too much, and what the risks involved might be?

Many thanks in advance...

[jenlyon60]

To some degree, it's how effective the practice time is. I've seen skaters who skate 4-6 hours a week but make maximum effective use of that time. They get on the ice and they don't goof off, and they've planned ahead how they're going to use the practice time.

Other skaters get on the ice and may say they do 10-15 hours of practice a week, but spend half of that time gossiping with their friends.

Having said all that, most of the competitive skaters I know skate 15-25 hours per week, plus off-ice training (dance, gym, etc). (talking Novice/Junior level skaters, plus my understanding of what one or more former world-level dance competitors had for a training regimen).

My personal feeling is that when one is just learning skills, too much practice time doesn't necessarily perfect the skill. In fact, it can do the opposite, and engrain bad habits that then become very difficult to break as one's skills improve.

JMO

[Clarice]

Yes, when I was taking ballet, we were requested to NOT practice outside of class because they were afraid we'd do the exercises wrong and learn bad habits, or, worse, hurt ourselves. They required that you take a minimum of 2 classes a week, but you could register for more. My coach recommends that beginning skaters do one hour of practice per lesson taken, in addition to the hour the lesson was on. To be fair, though, I think her point is more that they should come in and practice than it is to limit how much practice they do.

[iskatealot]

Im pretty sure that skate 20 hours a week isnt going to help a beginner skater. Odds are you will end up learning something wrong and having to backtrack alot to fix it. Over 20 hour practice weeks are something the Elite do and not something you need to do when you are just starting

[PattyP]

I am going to caution you as to spending that much time on the ice in addition to you ballet. As you mentioned AOSS, I assume that you are an adult skater. The large number of hours that you are spending will eventually result in injuries. I have a friend who kept a similar schedule, she always felt "more is better". She was fine for a year or two but now she is plagued with injuries. Her knee is so bad that she can barely jump anymore, surgery may not even correct the damange she has done, she has suffered torn calve muscles, torn hamstring, her back is always sore, etc. She is having to skip competing all together this year and is quite upset about it.

I tried to talk to her, but she wouldn't hear it. Her coach is no help either.

I think the kids are able to do more, but us adults need to be careful.

I only skate 4 hours a week, but when I'm on the ice I work very hard as I know my time is limited.

Just my 2 cents....

[samba]

Cshobe - The question is, what are you hoping to achieve by this, I think you need qualified guidance from someone who knows you and how you skate and also does not have a monetary interest.

[flippet]

Good advice, samba.

It's all going to depend on how you use that time. If you, like many 'recreational' skaters (meaning, you're not training for a competition, not that you're not serious), spend rather more time than you think either just standing around, or hopping off the ice for a stretch, or a Coke, or spend lots of time just gliding around in between 'working' on things, then it doesn't sound too terribly bad. On the other hand, if you attack everything gung-ho all the time, then yes, I think it's too much, especially at your level, and especially since you're doing this on your own at this point in time.

Patty's right--too much time on the ice, especially without really knowing what you're doing, can lead to overuse injuries, and can also make your skills wander south. (Ever say a word or a phrase over and over and over so many times that it starts to lose all meaning, of any kind? If you're constantly skating, skating, skating, without sufficient breaks, you can sort of 'damage' your skills like that. You need breaks both for physical rest, and for your brain to have time to process everything you're learning.) You need to get to know your body and skating well enough that when you know a particular skill just isn't going right, you call it a day on that, and just leave it the heck alone for a while. Sometimes the whole session can be a bust--but if you continue to push, push, push, you'll be risking injury, and ingraining whatever you're doing wrong with the skill. You want to practice, yes, but practicing wrong hurts more than it helps, most of the time. Like the Gambler said...ya gotta know when to fold 'em. ;)

[icedancer2]

This is all good advice, and of course we don't know you, so it is hard to say.

BUT -- I do have a friend who started skating as a rank beginner in his mid-20s. He skated about 15 hours a week or so right from the beginning, worked with good coaches and is now 10 years later, working on his gold dances and has passed at least one International Dance - standard track.

I remember when I met him he told me he was going to get his golds, and I was like, "yeah, right, sure you are".

I was certainly wrong, and to look at his skating today, you would never know that he had started as an adult. I think all of that time (and money of course, which is a limiting factor for a lot of us) and good coaching really paid off, at least for him!!

Good luck with your skating. And have fun. ;)

[phoenix]

But the difference here is that Cshobe isn't working with a coach--so he's just on his own teaching himself--which as many have expressed, is cause for concern as far as ingraining bad habits or bad body positions which could lead to injury.

I agree it sounds like you're over doing it a bit. How much does the ice time cost you? What if you cut it in half, and then took that extra money & had a lesson with a coach--even if it's a 15 or 20 minute lesson, coaches often will do that, & you'd be farther ahead. I know you say you can't afford a coach right now, but ice time isn't cheap either.

[kayskate]

When I had time to skate 10+ hr/wk, I improved dramatically. I reached a nadir of ability that I cannot maintain anymore b/c I no longer have that kind of time to invest. During those yrs, I took an hour of private lessons per wk w/ a good coach. We worked FS and MITF. I had a regular practice routine and distributed my time daily among various skills. I never worked a skill into the ground. IMO, that is a mistake. Sometimes more is not better if the skill is simply not working. Best to review it w/ coach in the next lesson. However, the time can be spent on something else. Moving on is a good idea. There is plenty to practice. I never had a shortage.

During weeks when I am on vacation from work, I will skate more hours. Improvement is immediate. I reattain peak performance very quickly, but it does not happen w/o spending time on the ice. For me, 2-3 hrs/day 4-5 days/wk yields optimum results. Off-ice can be added on top of this.

Kay

[Hannahclear]

Too much is the amount where you simply can't afford it, financially or otherwise.

I am limited in both time and money, but mostly money. I get 2-3 hours a week and a lesson about three times per month. I use my time wisely and focus when I'm on the ice.

I actually feel like I practice harder and have made more progress doing this than back in high school when I skated about 15 hours per week with lessons three times per week. I didn't OWN my time then because I wasn't paying.

I would like to build my endurance to the point where I can skate 90 minutes on my practice days though. I'm usually pretty tired and ready to go after about 60 minutes.

I'm a bronze-ish adult just for reference. It's obviously different for kids and elites.

[Perry]

If you really enjoy skating and can afford it, I see only one reason why you shouldn't skate more. Learning bad habits really isn't that much of a concern, provided you take lessons regularly and actually think when you practice, rather than just going through the motions. If there's something you think you're doing incorrectly or having trouble with, stop practicing it and wait for your lesson. You shouldn't have much trouble with bad habits.

The only reason you shouldn't increase your skating time, as every else has mentioned, is the likelihood of overuse injuries. When I was about 11 I started drastically increasing my skating time, to the point where, the summer I was 13, I was at the rink from 7AM to 6PM (with breaks, of course, but I was skating about 5-7 hours and doing 1-2 hours off ice every day) five days a week. That same summer, I started having major problems with my right hip, to the point where it was difficult to walk, let alone skate. I found out that, because I was skating so much, my growth plates hadn't been able to form properly. Obviously, as an adult skater, you won't have this problem, but in addition to that I had torn my labram, the cartiledge, and a ligament, I had apofecitis, bursitis, and tendonitis, I had a cyst and bone spur on my growth plate, I had a stress fracture and an evulsion fracture, and I had developed arthritis. All of this was only in my right (jumping) hip, but even then my left hip was showing signs of trouble. I had to have surgery, and it wasn't really until this year (3 years later) that I could skate normally again.

Basically, the moral of the story is that you can skate all you want, but you have to listen to your body. Had I seen a doctor when I first started having any trouble, they probably would have seen the problems in the growth plate and the beginnings of the tear in the labram and recommended some rest or changes in my training, and I would have avoided all of the other problems, the surgery, and the three years off. Instead, I blew it off as a sore muscle. Once you start skating more, you're going to have sore muscles, but you need to learn to distinguish between soreness and problems, and you need to actually do something about it. If you don't, it won't only cause problems for your skating, but for everything else (because of my stupidity and stubornness, I'll never be able to walk completely normally again -- I'll always drop my hip slightly to avoid using the damaged tissue).

In short, go ahead and increase your skating time. If you practice properly, you shouldn't have a problem with learning skills incorrectly. You just need to learn to gt off early or take a break when you need to (or see a doctor) to avoid oversue injuries.

[Casey]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I'm mostly just excited about the potential to be able to have more ice time that I didn't before. I don't take breaks off the ice generally, but I do alternate between exercise and keep a moderate pace between strenuous moves and just gliding around and trying new things.

I might cut out the evening sessions in trade if it gets to be too much, because the less-crowded time will be more valuable I think.

I want a coach, and I could afford one for a half hour a week or something...but I can if I have to stop going to public sessions and nobody cares. I can't stop going to lessons without letting the coach down, so that's why I want to wait until I get another job.

It's mostly the injuries I'm worried about...I guess I'll just be careful and play it by ear. :)

[jazzpants]

Hi, Casey!

I'm gonna have to agree with the majority here.

I know... you're a young adult guy and you've got TONS of energy and all but... there's something to be said for taking a break once in a while to let your muscles recover from whatever work you put it through. At the rate that you are going, you're definitely heading towards overuse injuries...and trust me, THAT is no fun!!! Heck, at your level, I think 3 hours straight in a day is WAAAAAY too much work... And I wouldn't want to even think about doing a 6 hour skating marathon either, no matter how cheap it is!

And I think at this point, given what you mentioned here, get your job first and THEN get THEE to a good skating coach!!! You'll need that person to help you develop good skating technique so you can reinforce those good habits when you go out there to practice!!! I would also get thee to a personal trainer at a gym, where he'll help you with putting together a fitness plan that makes sense for you to perform well as a skater... Yeah, yeah! I know. They are expensive, but the payback from it is well worth the price... And yes, carefully STRETCH before you go out there to skate!!!

Trust this old lady... after all, she's still skating, isn't she??? ;)

[fadedstardust]

What I think, is that at this point in your skating, you don't have nearly enough in your repertoire to warrant practicing that long, and you're going to end up doing the same things way too many times, and inevitably doing them wrong and picking up bad habits. You'll also probably get bored and attempt things you're not ready for or that you shouldn't attempt on your own, and you'll hurt yourself in one way or another. I skate 3 hrs a day, and I go over Senior moves (which I've already passed, but I still like to run through them), all my triple jumps, combos, spins, footwork, and programs, and work on stroking and power skating, too. So if I can do all that in 3hrs, I'd think a beginner working on singles and a couple of spins and pre-pre moves would be ok doing 1-1.5 hrs of work a day. Too much too early is definitely not better.

[pennybeagle]

OK, this is a little long-winded, but reading your original post reminded me too much of something I did to myself, so...

A few years ago, I was getting back into skating after taking seven years off. At the time, I had just finished my comprehensive exams in grad school and to celebrate, I thought I'd take up skating again. That was a good idea. :)

My university had (at that time, pre-renovations) free freestyle sessions for all students from 9am to 11am, Monday through Friday. So I went, every day, on nearly empty ice, and skated (talk about heaven! oh, for those days...). I didn't have a coach, and I was trying to "get back" some of the skills I had before I stopped skating (basically, pre-preliminary freestyle skills from when I was 19). So...that's 10 hours a week. I thought I was improving, and to some extent, I was... in any case I felt more comfortable on my skates.

Due to the fact that it was restricted ice (students only), there weren't any coaches on this freestyle session, so I was reluctant to get one, since that meant I'd have to drive to another rink that was a half hour away, and pay for ice time in addition to the lessons.

I did this for three months before getting a coach, and I started with 30-minutes of private lessons once a week. By this time, I'd developed an incredibly nasty double-lean on all my edge work (especially my back edges) that really hampered my learning the next level of skills (like GOOD back three turns, or axel preparations...).

Would I have developed this problem if I didn't spend so much time on my own? Maybe. Or maybe not. Who knows? All I know is that it was terribly frustrating to pay for lessons for another three months and not really learn new tricks (at least, not the ones I wanted to learn--the jumps!). In the end, it was all good for me, and I have the utmost respect for that coach who did not let me get away with bad habits, but believe me, at one point I got so frustrated with the whole lesson thing that I almost quit skating, because it was no longer fun. The thing that kept me going was I was somehow determined to land an axel, even if it killed me (and believe me, it nearly did!). I guess I'm just one of those silly, stubborn people.

The good news is that when I managed to break though that initial wall, my skating took off. I passed the prelim, pre-bronze, and bronze moves tests in the span of two months after that, and then progressed to pass the silver moves and bronze freestyle within the next year. And--get this--I was logging in LESS hours per week in practice time (although I was now logging in 1 hour a week in lessons). Right now, I am skating 4-7 hours a week (1 hour in lessons), and I am landing axels, working on doubles, and preparing for nationals and a slew of other upcoming competitions that I prefer not to think about right now 8O I take careful notes of my lessons, and plan out each workout ahead of time so that I don't waste time getting stuck one any one element.

Another note: Luckily, I have remained relatively injury-free, other than a torn meniscus, a pulled hamstring, the perpetual bruises that go with the trade, and the other mysterious aches and pains that seem to come and go. Sadly, the body does age, even if the desire doesn't.

For what it's worth... if your goals are skill-oriented, or "improvement" oriented, working with a coach who can give you immediate, personalized feedback on what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong may help you more than simply putting in more hours. At least, that's what I found in my experience. You sound like a very enthusiastic and motivated skater. Good luck!

[samba]

Some very good morals to your story Pennybeagle, also going back to the header of the original question, sometimes too much can mean driving to the rink and not remembering much of the journey, how many of us have done that one I wonder?? :roll: Speaking of which its 6.24am over here and I must get going to the rink!!

[Thin-Ice]

If you can afford a coach even once in a while, it is worth it to keep you from picking up bad habits. I have a friend who works a rotating schedule.. and I know of at least one pilot on this website who has a schedule that is shall we say "very flexible" because of trips. Most coaches are willing to work with you and your schedule, if you show up when you say you will and cancel as early as possible if there's a problem.

My friend sometimes goes 2-3 weeks without a lesson, but then has two lessons in one week (even if they're just 15 or 20-minute lessons) just because of her work schedule. Her coach says that's fine because my friend practices in between lessons and is smart enough to know when something is not working. That's when my friend stops doing "it" and brings "it" up at the beginning of her next lesson (some lessons she has a list of 4-5 "its" they need to go over.. others, she can just work on polishing or even new tricks!).

I agree with the majority here and say "Get a coach".. at least some of the time so all that available practice time will be well-used, rather than a chance to hurt yourself or ingrain bad habits or both!

[Mrs Redboots]

My own coach will take skaters who either cannot afford, or for whatever reason does not want, regular lessons as "casuals" - he will give them a lesson if they are there and he has a free space, but doesn't either expect them nor reserve space for them necessarily. You may find a coach who can take you on such a basis.