How badly is this looked down upon.

[Shinn-Reika]

Running into people.

Since I began skating again, I've ran into about 4 people, and I've had some pretty close calls. Luckily I haven't injured anyone, but it's not a good thing to think about.

I guess the biggest reason that I've been irked by this was that I ran right into someone who I really admired. I forgave me for it, and she's even suggested that I join the local figure skating club.

I guess I don't want to get a reputation for being reckless. I fear that I might not get in if I apply.

Are there any opinions/advice you can give? Also do you have any advice for trying to gain more control. I know that one of my strong points is that I'm not afraid to try new things, and I don't particulary care if I fall a lot (it really doesn't hurt anymore). I just don't want to put anyone in danger.

[fadedstardust]

Well, I run into people at least 4 times a WEEK, and they run into me about the same. It's gonna happen. I mean rarely is there actual CONTACT, but people unintentionally cut each other off all the time, after all, there's only four corners and 1 hour of ice time at a time. It's gonna happen. You just say "sorry" if it's your fault, and keep going.

All you can do is watch where you're going, don't do any moves too close to someone if you can't control it (ie: spinning too close to where someone else is spinning if you're gonna travel) and know your right of way rules, and give right of way when in doubt. If you're courteous, others will be in return. Although sometimes I'll be honest, you'll have to cut into someone's path who isn't giving you right of way when they should for them to learn the concept, but mostly, everyone looks out for everyone else. All you can do is not go too fast until you're more secure on the ice, and make sure to always WATCH in the direction you are going. And realize that run-ins happens daily.

Also, unless it's a private club and there are VERY few of those in the U.S., if you apply for a figure skating club membership...as long as you pay your dues, you're in- they don't pick and choose who they want, they take everybody, so I wouldn't be worried about that.

[jazzpants]

Well, I'm NUMBER #1 for being reckless and CLUELESS :P ... but here's what I've learned so far...

1) When doing back crossovers, TURN YOUR TORSO so you can look behind you!
2) Scope out the FS session beforehand and note where the lutz corners are and where all the coaches and students congregate, where's the stereo, etc.
3) Go to different FS sessions for a few weeks and see which ones are the least crowded.
4) A dopey thing that I'm trying to do but... memorizing other skater's program... well, at least which part of the rink they're at when they get to a certain point in the music, not necessarily what jumps or spins they're doing at the time. Unfortunately in my case, by the time I memorized their program patterns, they change their program.
5) Get to know the moves in the field patterns! Watch a few test sessions and see what they are supposed to do. When you see them doing those things, you know when to get out of people's way. For instance, some moves are around the sides of the rink, some are in the middle hockey circle (8 step mohawks), some are in this weird sepentine pattern (inside slide chasse), some are on the blue or red line (alt 3's on the prelim moves test.)
6) Use your common sense! If you see someone that's coming too close to you, GET OUT OF THE WAY!!!

[TashaKat]

Hi :D

You'll get leeway for a while as you're new back to skating but, as you say, you don't want to get a reputation :) The more you skate the better you'll get at your awareness and ability to move out of the way.

I'm sure that I'm preaching to the converted here but some pointers:

ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS say sorry. If you knock into someone who is in a lesson it may be a good idea to apologise to the coach as well. I know that it sounds common sense and good manners but you would be AMAZED at how many (kids and adults) don't even have the courtesy to say 'sorry'.

If someone is in your way either go around them or if you are in a Field Moves sequence, Dance pattern or whatever and you are in a lesson shout 'excuse me' or something so that they know that you are coming through.

Take time to watch other people's programmes, field moves and dances. It's good to see other people skate plus you'll be more aware of where they're going when you're skating with them.

Learn the rules of the rink. Ours gave priority to:

Couples (dance and pairs) in lessons with their music on
People in lessons with their music on
Couples (dance and pairs) in lessons
People in lessons
Couples (dance and pairs) not in lessons with their music on
Couples (dance and pairs)
Single skaters/solo dancers with their music on
Single skaters/solo dancers

The 'couples' thing is because it's more difficult for a pair to stop and believe me, if you've ever been in front of a Pairs couple steaming down the ice in an overhead lift you'll get out of the way :D

DON'T do as one adult skater at my rink did and never look at where anyone else is, pootle along with no regard to anyone else and PUSH a couple in the back who are waiting, with their music on, in 'start' position, for their musical cue to start just because they are stood in one of the lobes of your 'baby blues' pattern :evil: (personal rant there, I'm SURE that you wouldn't do that).

There DOES, however, come a point when you're stronger and more confident on the ice when you have to hold your own. You are always going to get the 'bullies' who will skate straight through you regardless of the 'rules'. Sometimes you can't back down otherwise you'll always back down. I remember doing my first ever test (Novice Free) and I got to the day of my test without EVER running it through without stopping or diverting! I also remember a couple of years later running through my programme, in a lesson with music on. One of these 'bullies' came skating straight at me, she was going forwards (so saw me), I was going backwards and saw her but really thought that she would avoid me, by the time she smacked into me she was in my blind spot. We collided, she went down, I didn't. It's NOT something that I would advocate but do you know she NEVER cut me up intentionally again.

You sound like a responsible person which people will realise. Just take some time to find out how the patch works and you'll be fine :)

[Mrs Redboots]

Those skaters who make themselves unpopular are the ones who skate in their own little world and seem totally unaware that there's anybody else on the ice!

If you're obviously trying to be aware of what's going on, and apologise if you do force someone else off-pattern, or to abort a jump, or whatever, then that shouldn't be a problem. Watch the other skaters - you'll soon learn whose programme goes where, so you'll know when you're likely to be in their way. If in doubt, freeze - they know where you are, so can go round you.

[Isk8NYC]

Hi :D

ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS say sorry. If you knock into someone who is in a lesson it may be a good idea to apologise to the coach as well. I know that it sounds common sense and good manners but you would be AMAZED at how many (kids and adults) don't even have the courtesy to say 'sorry'.

You hit the nail on the head. When I teach and the kids bump into each other, I have both of them say they're sorry. It's just a courtesy, not an acceptance of liability! I can't believe how reluctant they are to saying the word. Then, I go to the supermarket and meet the parents, who do the same thing with no apology, and with massive metal carts to boot!

My feel is that acknowledging it and saying sorry just makes life nicer. Anybody who cuts off or bumps into you, just say sorry. Even if it wasn't your fault. Even if the other person doesn't say sorry. It'll make up for the times you forget or don't realize it happened.

Okay, the soap box show is over. Thank you for your attention.

[skaternum]

I hope this won't come across the wrong way, but since you asked ... I think you should be a little concerned. If you've actually made physical contact (bumping into, colliding with, whatever) with 4 people in a short period of time, you'd scare me on the ice. Either you're not paying attention, or you're not able to control yourself and stop if you have to. If your sessions are really crowded, it's tougher, but you really have to try hard to pay attention and not just focus on what you're doing.

Getting in someone's way is a little different. Everyone does that accidentally from time to time. As long as you apologize and try really, really hard to pay attention, most people will let it go. But yes, you might develop a reputation for being "difficult" on the ice if it happens all the time.

As others have said, learn the right of way rules at your rink and make a point of following them.

Also, try thinking about the "no eye contact" trick. On the ice, look where you're going, not at someone else and use your peripheral vision to judge what's around you. (It's like driving a car; you have to constantly use your peripheral vision and scan your environment.) Here's the key: assume that other skaters do that as well, so you can tell where a skater is going by where they're directly looking.

[NickiT]

It's inevitable that at some point two people sharing the same rink will run into each other, so don't beat yourself up about it. I skate on a near empty patch, yet between the three or four of us on there, at some point two of us will seek out the same spot of ice. It doesn't make you feel good but really the only thing you can do is apologise and do your best to stay out of the way in future. Most people are sensible enough to realise that you're not running into others on purpose.

Nicki

[sk8er1964]

I've been back on the ice three years, and I've only had one physical collision with someone else. One. I was going backwards, doing the CW Intermediate move and starting the end pattern, when I collided with a dance team coming around the corner. (The weird thing about that was that we were both in lessons, and my coach and her coach - who was going forwards partnering her - both didn't see it coming.)

Now, I have had quite a few near misses - those happen. I skate on crowded freestyles, I skate on empty open skates, I skate in just about any condition you can come up with, at four different rinks. I'm with skaternum on this one. If you've had a lot of actual collisions, then maybe you need to take a good look at your surroundings and what other skaters are doing. We have a woman who's come to our rink lately - a very nice woman - but she has absolutely no clue what the other skaters are doing and is constantly in other people's way. She's a good enough skater to know better, too. Oh, and yes, we are talking about her, and no it is not flattering.

[daisies]

4) A dopey thing that I'm trying to do but... memorizing other skater's program... well, at least which part of the rink they're at when they get to a certain point in the music, not necessarily what jumps or spins they're doing at the time.
This is NOT dopey! It's one of the smartest things you can do ... and it was one of the first things I was taught to do when I was a kid on my first FS session. And as a result (knock on wood) I have never collided with anyone EVER, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've gotten in someone's way during their program. And I've been skating 18 years!

[Scarlett]

Another thing that may help is to make a note of any CW skaters. You may frequently find that you guess their intentions wrong (confusing spin and jump entries). Most CW skaters are always on the lookout ( I abort more jumps than you can shake a stick at) but an extra pair of eyes is always helpful.

[starskate6.0]

2 months or 20 years
Its going to happen sooner or later, its never if its when, its a part of the sport that we must all remember that it will happen.

Basic rule or priority.

1. students having lessons.
2. students doing programs.
3. Allways look out for pair teams and dancers, 2 of them 1 of you.
4. except the fact that it will happen one day, be a good sport, regardless of who runs into who.

Thats all folks. :D

[fadedstardust]

2 months or 20 years
Its going to happen sooner or later, its never if its when, its a part of the sport that we must all remember that it will happen.

Basic rule or priority.

1. students having lessons.
2. students doing programs.
3. Allways look out for pair teams and dancers, 2 of them 1 of you.
4. except the fact that it will happen one day, be a good sport, regardless of who runs into who.

Thats all folks. :D

Actually every rink I've ever skated at has given priority to the person whose music is on (doing a program) regardless of who is in a lesson and who is not. Someone who is running their music AND with a coach get priority over everyone else (this includes over pairs, although that's easier said than done), then someone who is playing music but without a coach gets priority over someone who is in a lesson (and pairs, hypothetically...), then someone with a coach but not playing music, and then someone by themselves. As a general rule, a pair always gets right of way over a single skater for sheer reason of safety and practicality though, so if you see them coming at you and they should be giving you right of way, chances are they won't have the time to, so just move. Haha. Meanwhile, here's a rule that is sure to be true in every rink that has freestyle sessions not divided by level (open freestyles as opposed to low, medium, high, elite) but that is never discussed because I guess it is taboo, but nonetheless: someone who is doing a higher jump than you generally has right of way. The reason for this is not because they are "better" and thus deserve the ice more, it's because it takes a longer pattern and speed buildup to set up a triple jump than it does a single, so you can go around again rather easily, or set it up elsewhere, whereas it's a whole big hoopla for someone doing a triple to do the same. Also, someone who needs a specific spot has right of way over someone who doesn't. This means, if you are practicing a loop jump (or worse, a spin, and I see that all the time even though spins usually belong in the center) in the lutz corner, then you better be ready to give up your spot to someone actually doing a lutz when the time comes. You can set up a loop or a spin basically anywhere, not true with a lutz, so you should leave those corners empty for the lutz purposes if someone needs it.

Those are all the rules I can think of. Common sense and courtesy should be enough to survive the world of freestyle ice. Sometimes though, you just have to show someone who consistantly gets in your way (and has no right to) that you WILL make them fall if they don't go around you, for the behavior to stop, like someone else has said. Of course doing this means you're putting yourself in danger, as well, so I really wouldn't recommend it, but I think everyone's done it.

[TashaKat]

Actually every rink I've ever skated at has given priority to the person whose music is on (doing a program) regardless of who is in a lesson and who is not.

Not necessarily (see my previous post) which is why it's important to know YOUR rink rules. At all of the rinks that I've skated at it's been lessons that have priority irrespective of who is running their programme through. It's only fair if you think about it, you're paying for your lesson time so you SHOULD get priority.

[Mrs Redboots]

I thought of this thread this morning when we tried to get out of the way of one of our Novice couples (elite Novice, not beginner!) and, alas, they barrelled straight into us. Apologies on both sides, and no more was thought about it.

By the way, does anybody else reckon that it's one of the Laws of Skating that the fewer people on the patch, the more likely you are to nearly bash into someone? Certainly seems the case when I'm on the ice with only one or two others....

[NickiT]

By the way, does anybody else reckon that it's one of the Laws of Skating that the fewer people on the patch, the more likely you are to nearly bash into someone? Certainly seems the case when I'm on the ice with only one or two others....

Absolutely!!! As I've said before I skate on a near empty patch yet we still have near-collisions. I put it down to being a bit more at ease to go for things at speed.

My daughter and coach had a near miss yesterday. Sophie was being taught prelim field moves for the first time and coach was going around with her. Next thing, a fast dancer came whizzing into the two of them! Luckily there was no collision as they both darted out the way. So even coaches get caught in the wrong spot at times!

Nicki

[batikat]

At most of our rink patches there is rarely time for anyone not in a lesson to put their music on so the 'not in lesson but running programme' versus the 'not runnning programme but in lesson' rarely happens. It does occur in some our morning public sessions where patch rules can't really apply as the public can't be expected to know them but when there's only a few of us on there practising, everyone tends to give way to the programme over a lesson and coaches who accidentally get in the way will even apologise if they mess up your programme.

And I'd agree that fewer people out there often means more likelihood of collisions not less, as everyone feels freer to concentrate on what they are doing rather than what everyone else is doing as you have to on a crowded patch.

My pet peeve when my kids used to practise their pairs on patch was that they could be both in a lesson and running their programme to their music and one particular coach (who should know better and used to go ballistic when anyone got in the way of his skaters) used to just stand there in the middle with his pupil doing crossovers round the centre circle and not move nor tell his pupil to look out, so that many times they had to abort a lift (very difficult to do safely) or step sequence as my kids would not countenance endangering anyone else, so always gave way.

It did get annoying that despite having priority on 3 counts pairs, lesson, and programme music on, that this coach not only didn't move but never apologised either! and it happened more than once.

Despite that though if it happens to you, you have to let it go - the least poplular skaters are those who get angry when someone gets in their way accidentally. The foot stampers, under breath cursers, and prima donnas (what's the male equivalent - prime dons!??? :lol: ) who feel they are the only ones who should be on the ice anyway!

[sk8pics]

By the way, does anybody else reckon that it's one of the Laws of Skating that the fewer people on the patch, the more likely you are to nearly bash into someone? Certainly seems the case when I'm on the ice with only one or two others....

Yep, my worst injury in skating came from a collision when there were only 4 of us on the ice --two coaches and two students. It was the dance coach who blindsided me and literally knocked me off my feet. My own coach saved me from a worse injury but still it was bad.

Back to the original question, if you have been in 4 actual collisions in a short period of time, IMO something is wrong here. Either you are on the wrong session or there are a lot of people who think they can push you around or you are not paying enough attention to what is going on around you and/or the rules of the rink. Accidents happen of course but if you are always involved, that can't be a good thing.

Good luck!

Pat

[Justine_R]

Hi,
Don't worry..last year I was in a lesson with my coach and my lutz was probably the worst jump you have ever seen.
I would ALWAYS switch edges and make my leg go really high....Well we were working on it and I was just starting to take off in the Lutz Corner..I looked behind me and checked if anyone was there etc because it was a pretty busy session.
It was clear and so I went off into the jump but there was a girl right behind me that is a reverse skater.
The takeoff wasen't perfect but when my coach told her to move she just started doing backwards crossovers while talking to her friends.
I accidently took of and while I was doing that somehow my toepick found its way into the back of her thigh.
Shes about 16 and it must of her hurt her so much, she was crying and everything and I felt so bad that I wanted to cry too.This kind of thing had never happened to me before because, I have only been skating 2 and a half years.
Anyways my coach understood and she even bought me a hot chocolate and told me it would be fine.
The girl went to the hospital and sat there in the emergency room for 6 hours just to find out that she didn't need stitches.
I apologised throughly but my coach said it was her fault not mine because I was in lesson and she wasen't and when y coach told her to get out of the way she didn't.
Ithink it was 50-50 spilt though I mean She needs quicker reaction time and I need a better lutz:P.
Well thats my little story..oh and we never fell out about it or anything we are still friends.

Thats my 2 cents!

[daisies]

Not necessarily (see my previous post) which is why it's important to know YOUR rink rules. At all of the rinks that I've skated at it's been lessons that have priority irrespective of who is running their programme through. It's only fair if you think about it, you're paying for your lesson time so you SHOULD get priority.
Interesting! Where do you skate? I've never been to a rink in the U.S. where the person skating their program doesn't have the right of way. In fact, I wouldn't skate anywhere that had that policy, because I'd never get through my program.

Under your rink's rules, though, what if everyone on the session is in a lesson? Then who has the right of way?

[fadedstardust]

Interesting! Where do you skate? I've never been to a rink in the U.S. where the person skating their program doesn't have the right of way. In fact, I wouldn't skate anywhere that had that policy, because I'd never get through my program.

Under your rink's rules, though, what if everyone on the session is in a lesson? Then who has the right of way?

The person with the most expensive coach, I assume. ;)

[dbny]

Interesting! Where do you skate? I've never been to a rink in the U.S. where the person skating their program doesn't have the right of way. In fact, I wouldn't skate anywhere that had that policy, because I'd never get through my program.

Under your rink's rules, though, what if everyone on the session is in a lesson? Then who has the right of way?

I've skated on ice (in the US) where the lessons had priority over the programs, but even the lesson skaters/coaches moved for the programs if at all possible. There were also rules about how often one could skate a program on a session, and lessons always had priority for playing program music.

The biggest problem is not when everyone is in a lesson, but that some coaches do not look out for other skaters/coaches and do not teach their skaters to either. I've yelled at some of them just for safety's sake (something on the order of "Look out - I can't move very fast!"). After a while, they do seem to get the message.

[Mel On Ice]

in response to something jazzpants does, after you've been skating at a rink for a while, you DO get used to the rhytmn of your home rink and it is possible to chart your course on a freestyle without fear of getting too badly into someone else's way. I went back to my old rink this past weekend, and was surprised at how nervous I was going back because I didn't know those skater's routines, and wasn't sure where a double axel would suddenly pop up.

[mikawendy]

Another thing that may help is to make a note of any CW skaters. You may frequently find that you guess their intentions wrong (confusing spin and jump entries). Most CW skaters are always on the lookout ( I abort more jumps than you can shake a stick at) but an extra pair of eyes is always helpful.

Scarlett, that happens to me, too! I'm CW and I'm always struggling with where to place jumps where I won't be running into people's patterns and people in lessons and also not running into the boards. I usually watch a higher level CW skater that I know to see how she sets up for her jumps.