Difficulties with employer?

[Casey]

Where I work, I am expected to be at work 9am-5pm every weekday, but also to be on-call 24/7. Being on-call all the time gets aggravating at times, especially when stuff at work breaks a lot and I have to be at home to connect to the work network to troubleshoot the problem, but the job pays pretty well so I have been sticking with it.

I work with one other person who has the same job. We trade off who's on-call every other week.

Yesterday, I e-mailed my employers and told them that I needed a few specific hours each week when I would be inaccessible while ice skating, specifically all of the public sessions available during non-work hours that I've been usually going to anyways, a bit less than 15 hours per week during my non-work hours. Since this is only about 12% of the 168 off-work hours in a given week when I am expected to be on-call, I would expect them or my coworker/manager to be willing to cover during those hours. I even proposed to my coworker/manager to pick any other 15 non-conflicting hours out of the week, and I'd be happy to be on call for them every week, so that he had some free time each week as well.

They've found this entirely unacceptable, and my manager has told me that I'm paid to be on-call 24/7...that this is unacceptable (he uses the most annoying sarcastic tone (you can hear the quotes), whenever he refers to my "skating" too). After a good bit of discussion, he said that he *might* be willing to let me have the hour and a half every Tuesday night for the cheap public skate session during which I'm taking lessons, but even that he'd have to think about.

I'm really aggravated by his behavior, and feel like I ought to be able to have a bit of free time each week, especially as I don't get paid overtime for it, and I'm scheduling it (as opposed to the times he'll call when he's on-call but gotten an alert while out to dinner or something at random times).

There's really nothing I can do though besides lose my job, which I don't particularly want to happen...so I guess I'm mostly just venting here.

Anybody else here faced difficult situations with their employers?

[saras]

they can't possibly expect you to be at HOME every minute of those 168 on-call hours. What do you do when say you're at the grocery store when you're on call? I imagine something like "well, I'll be home in an hour - I'll fix it then". Why not just treat skating sessions like that?

Or, lobby your rink for wireless and get a zippy laptop to throw into your skating bag :)

Sara

[TashaKat]

Hi

Firstly ... this would be better in Non-Skating, perhaps you could get the mods to move it :)

Secondly ... I learned a long, long time ago NEVER to ask for time off for skating! For some reason quite a few people have a very negative attitude towards adults ice skating.

I was in a similar situation to you for many years (minus the good money). I was working an 8 hour day PLUS doing overtime (at least an 11/12 hour day but very often working an 18 hour day) PLUS being on call 1 in 2 (which sometimes meant for 6 weeks at a stretch if my 'other half' (work wise) was sick or on holiday.

I used to skate before work (less chance of being called out than in the evenings) but made the BIG mistake of telling people about it. I couldn't see what harm there was, I was available on bleep and mobile, I was nearer to work than if I was at home but NO every time I was sick, tired or under the weather I would be slagged off because it just HAD to be to do with skating :roll: No matter how many times I pointed out that I was doing a HEALTHY pursuit which would mean that I would be better at work they didn't buy it. Others would come in wrecked from a night in the pub but that was ok because it was socially acceptable. I used to get so annoyed about it.

I can't see what the problem is if you've covered it with your opposite number but, unfortunately, employers aren't always reasonable!

I lost my job anyway and ended up not skating anyway after I broke my wrist but it really hacks me off that some people are so negative to something that is actually helping us to keep fit and healthy.

So ... can't help I'm afraid but I can sympathise.

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[fadedstardust]

This isn't just about skating though, I mean considering your job, you can't do ANYTHING at all, that's terrible! That is no way to leave life. If you can possibly afford it, I would look for another job. Having 24 hours of your day 7 days a week- even if it's only every other week- spoken for must be absolute hell. I'm lucky not to be working outside of skating, but I couldn't imagine the amount of money someone would have to give me for me to relinquish my entire life over to them. I don't think there would be an amount that would get me to do that. There must be other options.

[dbny]

I used to be on call 24/7 also. The less you tell them about your personal life, the better. I second the idea of responding to calls/pages with the info that you are out and will attend to the problem when you return in x hours/minutes...

If you get along well with your co-worker, why is there any need to inform your manager of your coverage arrangement? I was fortunate in that my management was happy with anything we (there were 4 of us) worked out for ourselves.

Now that the cat is out of the bag, you are just going to have to do what you can. Just don't tell them what they don't need to know, and answer the calls when you can.

[NCSkater02]

I have the exact opposite situation. My last supervisor (I won't count the @%^% after her) changed my schedule around to accomodate my skating--even to the point of letting me come in late one day a week. When she needed me to come in in the mornings (short staffed) she gave me the afternoon I needed to meet my coach for a lesson. I really miss her.

My current employer knows I skate--I talked about it in my initial interview. As long as I remind the schedule coordinator of the days I skate, she does a good job of getting me out. In 3 months, I've only missed one session, and that was because the rink changed the session time and I didn't know it.

[renatele]

my husband is facing a similar situation where the company he's employed at was considering putting his team on call 24/7. Everyone was very much against it - it's just not possible for a person to be available every minute. What if you love to take 1 hour long showers? Can't you attend religious services either without having the disturbance of answering the phone call the very second it rings? There are just way too many situations where you may not be able to answer the phone/pager right away. Skating is just one of those situations, part of your normal life. In this case, I wouldn't even tell your employer that you may not be available at certain times, and instead just check the pager/mobile phone say, every 30 minutes, to see if someone called, and then get back to them asap within reason.

[doubletoe]

What annoying people! Obviously, they have no life and are too geeky to have ever gotten involved in a sport in their entire lives. It's too bad you told them the truth; I would have come up with a fictional activity that was more acceptable to their narrow-minded thinking.

Oh well, just keep skating, and if they ask why you didn't respond to the page, just say, "Do you answer the phone when YOU'RE having s*x?"

[Casey]

A bit of clarification - my coworker IS my manager - there are only two of us working here in the US. I mailed several in the company, everyone concerned with the customer I'm working for. My coworker is the only one who has expressed any concern, though he's trying to tell me the rest of the company is upset about it (which I think is a lie) too.

The job is overdemanding anyways - and even though it's good money, it's underpay for being on-call this much. I didn't ask for time off, I simply stated I will be inaccessible during these specific times. And so I will be. If my coworker wants to fire me for it then fine, but not having time for skating is not acceptable for me. So I'm going to continue skating, at the times I specified, and he'll just have to deal with it, or fire me and be the only one on call, whatever.

Sorry TashaKat about posting in the wrong section - I did that with my first post on the forums too, seems I have a knack for it. :P

[kayskate]

None of my business what you do for a living, but I can't help but wonder what kind of job sucks that much. If its possible, can you move to a more employee-friendly company? Not just to accomodate your skating, which is none of their business anyway (I would not tell them either), but the rest of your life should be important. You need a life outside of work to unwind and be a whole person. I think that kind of stress and lack of totally free time cannot be healthy.

Kay

[Canskater]

Hi:

You might want to check out the labor code where you are .... but nobody is really paid for 7/24 service.

I manage a team of technicians, all of whom carry pagers in the event of outages outside of regular hours. We have a published callout list ... and a rotation of whose name appears first on the list. If a technician is called for any reason .... irrespective of whether or not he/she has to physically go anywhere, they accrue a minimum of 4 hours extra pay .... and time and a half x four hour minimum if it occurs on a weekend.

Nobody can be compelled to be available 7/24/365.

-- sheilagh

[Casey]

You might want to check out the labor code where you are .... but nobody is really paid for 7/24 service.

I looked online at the department of labor laws, and it seems that if you make more than $455/week, you are exempt from overtime laws, so they don't have to pay you for it. The situation is further complicated by the fact that my employer is not in this country...

The nice thing about the job is that it's pretty easy, I don't work too hard when at work, but I like having my free time to myself, which is why I'm pretty much putting my foot down now...the job doesn't mean so much to me that I'm not willing to jeopardize it for a few hours per week to pursue skating (hey, at least I have my priorities right, skating comes first ;-) ).

I think my dream job would be evening shift, so that I could skate during the near-empty daytime public sessions every day during the week. :D

I told my boss in jest several times that I was going to get a job at Target or McDonalds when I get fired, I don't think sarcasm was the expected response to his trying to scare me into not skating. ;)

[Aussie Willy]

Would your manager have the same attitude if you said you had to go to church at certain times? Or that there were only certain times you could do classes at the gym? Or if you did theatre and had rehearsals? You do have a life outside work and I don't think asking for a "schedule" to work those things you do in life around your work is asking that much. And your skating is the thing that gives you spiritual and physical health which is very important.

Hey you work to be able to earn the money for the things in life you enjoy and skating is one of them.

I am quite thankful that I work for myself so I can go skating whenever I like - I just put the times in my diary.

[Casey]

Well I got a call from my boss's boss this morning, who tells me that he wants me to "think of alternatives", which means getting the time off is not optional. The conversation didn't seem to be too productive, so he proposed that we talk about it more Monday and try to think of solutions in the meanwhile.

He said that the company is contractually obligated to provide 24/7 support, so I simply didn't have a lot of options.

I sent him a message a minute ago and proposed working evening shifts, which would let me go to the wonderful daytime public sessions, but I doubt that will go over well.

So I'm looking for a new job, it seems... :??

[TashaKat]

Sorry TashaKat about posting in the wrong section - I did that with my first post on the forums too, seems I have a knack for it. :P

Hey, it wasn't a 'telling off' you just might get more replies in Non-Skating.

How are things going for you?


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[Casey]

Oh, those sneaky, sneaky, two-faced lying b******s...

So today I went to the printer to get some things I'd printed...while sorting through it I came across a resume. I took a quick glance at it and noticed the skills listed were surprisingly similar to my own. I started suspecting my boss of trying to replace me...

Later on in the day, I notice my boss using the conference room on the opposite side of the building to make a private phone call as I'm walking about, with a yellow legal pad and a pen. I think I know what he's up to...but don't want to make any quick assumptions.

After he left for the day, I went and found the yellow legal pad on his desk, flipped the folded back pages to the front, and saw that he had two names written, along with phone numbers, times (presumably for interviews), and a few notes on each. One of the names matched the name on the resume I'd seen. :evil:

Well, I figured that might happen. Oh well - I don't want to work for nasty lying people like that anyways, when I don't even get the time to skate. Now to find a better job... :??

[jazzpants]

Oh, dear... that is not good news!

If it's any consolation, this is probably a great time to start looking for a new job. It's the beginning of the new quarter AND a new fiscal year (for a lot of companies.) I've been BOMBARDED with phone calls from recruiters since Monday and I already got another phone screen coming up too Monday (and had one today... and I don't feel we're a fit.) :(

Good luck, cshobe. I hope my next boss will be just as understanding and supportive of my skating habit as my latest ex-boss. :cry:

[TashaKat]

Playing the devil's advocate here ...

Could it be that he's looking for EXTRA personnel rather than to replace you?

If it is the worst (though moving on doesn't sound a bad idea anyway!) will you have any legal redress against the company if they get rid of you? Certainly, in the UK they can't make you redundant and then put somebody else in your role as it's the JOB that they make redundant not the person! I would advise you NOT to just up and leave, hold on for a while during which time you can start looking for another position anyway.

Also, it may be easy to become disillusioned and not put the effort in. If they ARE looking to get rid of you then you're playing into their hands. Suck it up for now and play the model employee. Don't give them any reason at all to let you go. Log anything that can help you later on (if, for example, you feel that you have been unfairly dismissed) and if they DO let you go unfairly go for the ******* legally with all guns blazing. It's a tough thing to do (I've been through it) but it HAS to be done to show these gits that they can't get away with it.

[flippet]

Here's the thing...from what you've told us, you've only asked about possible time to yourself...you haven't actually acted on it in any way that would affect your job or the company, right? I would think that they would be in an awful lot of legal trouble if they fired you for that, without a whole lot of supporting information to back them up. If I were you, I'd document everything, and like Tasha said...be a model employee. That way, if they do let you go, you might have a case, and could reap a nice reward for their ignorance.

[Debbie S]

The problem is, unless you have signed a specific contract that clearly spells out the reasons for which you can be terminated (like a union contract), you may not have grounds to sue. I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that in the U.S. (you are from the U.S., right?) you can only sue if you have, or may have, been fired because of your race, gender, religion, or another suspect classification. Generally, an employer in most circumstances can fire someone for any reason - although if you have been a model employee and haven't violated any of your job's rules or requirements, you may be able to make life a bit difficult for your employer. I agree, though, that you should document everything - that way at least you won't have a problem collecting unemployment benefits.

[Casey]

I work as a consultant on contract, technically, and the contract says that either party may terminate the contract any time they please for any reason. Unemployment benefits are out of the question since they are a foreign company and I have to handle all the taxes myself (no forms at all).

The problem is that there are only two of us here in the US, and my coworker is technically my manager since a couple months ago when he was promoted. I called his boss overseas last night, however, and asked if I was going to be let go from the company as I sensed, without giving any details. He said that if I could not be on call 24/7, then they were going to have to replace me - that was the hard and short of it. They had started interviewing because if things didn't work out they would need a replacement and sometimes finding the right person can take a long time.

So I said it wasn't a major issue, and was really surprised things had progressed that far without me being told about it. It seems the job is saved for now, since I'm willing to carry the phone and rush home in the event of a problem. I'm really disappointed by this though - both that I cannot have any time to myself and that my employer as being dodgy and what I perceive to be dishonest to me.

I have an interview lined up with another employer on Monday...I think I'll still talk to them regardless of my job appearing to be more safe at present. Unfortunately, I need the job to make money to allow me to skate (and pay rent, which comes second of course ;-) ). The people overseas are genuinely good people, so I don't really want to leave my job, but the schedule is difficult to deal with and my coworker is an arse.

Bleh... Well, at least I still have a paycheck for the time. We'll see how it plays out.

[TashaKat]

Any employer who says "take it or leave it" isn't worth working for (I know, I worked for one for 7 years). They CAN'T own you for 24/7, it's unrealistic and completely unfair. I was doing 1 in 2 on call which was horrendous, goodness knows what 24/7/365 has on your life, health and wellbeing. Any employer who is SO inflexible is only going to come up with more things in the future, they seem to think that you should be grateful working for them WRONG they should be grateful that they have someone of your calibre on their workforce.

My advice would be to get another job FAST. Your 'manager' doesn't seem to be someone who will be nice working under in the long term and is it worth it in the long run?

Good luck with the interview. Remember now that you owe this company NOTHING, they are not giving you any respect, they won't even compromise with you and are already planning your replacement. They are just going to find that they will go through a lot of employees which IS NOT going to be good for their business.

I hope that it all goes well for you and that something works out. Maybe this is the boot up the bum that you need to get you onto something bigger and better (I was RELIEVED when I was 'let go', unemployed and angry but the overwhelming feeling was a weight lifted from my shoulders).


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