Question about Klingbeils

[angelskates]

I didn't want to get off topic on the other thread, but I have a question on Klingbeils. Has anyone here ever ordered them without actually going to a fitting?

I am in China and obviously won't be able to physically go there. I got my current Grafs long distance, with the foot tracings etc (and I know Klingbeils does this too, if only they would reply to my emails!!) and they are great and I am thinking about a change. I have a fairly standard foot, haven't had any trouble with my Grafs at all, though I wouldn't be able to heat mould them this time.

After reading the other thread though I don't know if I can go from a really light Graf (I have Edmonton Specials) to a heavier skate. But, I was just wondering if anyone else has ordered from Klingbeils long distance and what their experience was.

[jenlyon60]

200 miles (from NYC) isn't exactly long distance, but I bought all 3 pairs of Klingbeils I've had by being measured by my local trustworthy skate shop using the form and directions supplied by Klingbeil (now available on their web site as a PDF file).

All 3 pairs turned out fine... of course I've also bought every pair of skates I've ever owned from the same skate shop, and had almost every sharpening ever done (except for 3 or 4 over 20 years) done by the same couple of guys.

[Vicki]

I ordered mine long distance and they turned out great. It would be important to find someone who can do the tracing for you and to take accurate measurments. I had my ballet teacher do mine.

I did send my skates back once for a minor adjustment after speaking with Don over the phone. He understood exactly what I needed to have done and I haven't had a problem since.

[angelskates]

Thanks for your replies.

Vicki, what did you do for skates while yours were being adjusted? I skate every day so can't really afford to be without skates for long. I could wear my oldies for a week but I doubt my longer and postage time is a minimum of 10 days for standard post or else it costs a fortune.

My coaches have said they could do the tracings for me, never thought of asking my ballet teacher but I am sure she would too!

I am more worried about if there are problems what I could do since postage takes so long and costs a lot. Are adjustments free? And can I get a blade attached at the same time?

[skaternum]

angelskates,
Klingbeil makes any (or as many) adjustments you need for free for the life of the boots. The only catch is that you have to pay for the shipping. I've discovered that FedEx next day service plus $800 worth of insurance runs me $35 one way. I pay to have them shipped there, then include a check for $35 with them, and Klingbeil takes care of mailing them back. I've had 3 sets of adjustments so far -- not necessarily because Klingbeil didn't fit me properly. I've had some physical issues that have affected the musculature in my right leg and foot. It changes over time, so I periodically need to get them slightly ajusted. Klingbeil's customer service is fabulous. These boots are the closest I've ever come to boots that fit perfectly. (Because of my freaky back & muscle problems, I'll probably never have boots that fit perfectly.) :cry:

[angelskates]

Skaternum,

Ouch on the shipping. I am hoping mine will be perfect the first time, since it will cost me an absolute fortune from China.

Is there anywhere that I can see the colour choices?? I am going with traditional white (coaches orders, plus I like traditional), but my best friend is thinking of getting me another pair of coloured (what a best friend huh?) for my birthday.... Also, I don't know what the different sole colourings look like! I don't think I had a choice with Graf.

Graf have been pretty good for me, but I have a weak left side so it's a bit of a problem, I need one boot a bit stronger. I would recommend Graf without hesitation, but they don't have customs.

Can you pay for Klingbeils by MasterCard? I can't do cheques. I emailed them and got an automated reply that they will be back Monday. It's Tuesday so I don't know if that means next Monday, but probably.

How long does it usually take from order to receiving?

[backspin]

Just curious--is there a reason you're switching from Grafs? If they've been good to you & you're a happy customer, why take the chance on switching? A very expensive experiment!

I'm a very satisfied Klingbeil customer, on my second pair of customs (both ordered long distance, btw), but I'm also a firm believer in the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" school. Just my 2¢.

** your Klingbeils will be much heavier than your Grafs, I'm sure you're aware! I've never minded it, but Klingbeils do have a reputation for being a very heavy boot, and Grafs for being very light. **

[vesperholly]

When I ordered my Klingbeils, I did tracings, measurements, Polaroid photos, and foot impressions in foam. They make the bottom contour to this. I think it was the foot impressions that made the best difference in my Klingbeils being so awesome.

[sk8er1964]

I emailed them and got an automated reply that they will be back Monday. It's Tuesday so I don't know if that means next Monday, but probably.

My fitter said they were on vacation right now. He didn't say when they'd be returning.

[Vicki]

When I sent my skates back to Klingbeil for adjustments, I think my coach was out of town for a couple of weeks and I decided to use that for a break. I think I shipped them UPS 2nd day to get them there but don't remember how they sent them back.

Shipping from China would complicate matters! Good luck. I think you'll be happy with your skates and with the service you receive.

[angelskates]

Just curious--is there a reason you're switching from Grafs? If they've been good to you & you're a happy customer, why take the chance on switching? A very expensive experiment!
(snip)
** your Klingbeils will be much heavier than your Grafs, I'm sure you're aware! I've never minded it, but Klingbeils do have a reputation for being a very heavy boot, and Grafs for being very light. **

backspin, I have a weak left side due to two strokes I had when I was 18 and 21. My physio and coaches over here think a stronger boot for my left foot might help things. We never really thought of this option before, mainly because it's not very obvious. No-one would know by looking at me that my left side is weaker (especially since I skate CCW), but I have almost no reflexes at all and a lot less strength.

My Grafs have been pretty good, they are light and it is something that concerns me about Klingbeils, but Grafs don't make customs. Another option we're thinking about is getting Grafs with the left boot double strength, but my Grafs also haven't lasted that long and although I'm skating every day, I'm only doing singles (and have no immediate plans to go any further). My Grafs are breaking down subtlely, I need to re-lace them every half hour, but they are comfortable and break in time was non-existent (both of which I heard also apply to Klingbeils).

Do they send the foam to me once I place my order?

Thanks for all your help.

[Dr. Phil]

I had a pair of Klingbeils, and the seam on the heel totally ripped so I couldn't land my jumps. I had bad luck with both pairs of Klingbeils I had.

I switched to Graf Edmontons, and I love them! They broke in perfectly in three days. I was doing all my jumps the same week I got them.

[LWalsh]

I switched from Grafs to Klingbeils a couple of years ago. When I brought my Grafs to Klingbeil so they could remove the blades and put them on the new boots, they weighed both boots in front of me. The Grafs were only one ounce lighter. Hardly enough to make a difference IMO.

Lwalsh

[angelskates]

Just a quick update. I have had pretty poor service from Klingbeils via email (I am dealing with someone called Janice?) but am hoping for the best. I haven't actually completed an order yet, though I think I'm close, have just asked how to get my MasterCard details to them...don't like to email that kind of stuff. I really want to hurry the process up.

BIG disadvantage of Klingbeils is they don't sell blades. I want new blades mounted so they come ready for the ice. I don''t trust anyone well enough here to give them my skates and all the other skates and coaches I have spoken to have left mainland China when they needed blades mounted, this is not an option for me.

Can anyone offer any suggestions? Is there anyone close who would be able to purchase me blades and take them in? I would pay for the trouble (and, ofcourse the blades and transport!)

[jenlyon60]

How will you know if the blades are mounted correctly for your foot if you have them pre-mounted sight-unseen?

[angelskates]

jenlyon60, I have always had blades pre-mounted without hassles, on Riedells and Grafs. I think I may have had them pre-mounted on my short-lived SP Teris ions ago. I don't know why, but it has never been a problem. I know some people who hate pre-mounting and have had major issues, but I am yet to have even one.

I had my Grafs pre-mounted long distance as well and they were/are great, but the boot is starting to break down. I have been told that I have extremely "normal" feet, which may have something to do with it. The only blade hassle I have ever had was when the sole wasn't waterproofed first, it started to rot and one of the screws rusted causing the blade to move.

[dbny]

Can anyone offer any suggestions? Is there anyone close who would be able to purchase me blades and take them in? I would pay for the trouble (and, of course the blades and transport!)

You can buy your blades from the pro shop at the Cantiague (Long Island, NY) pro shop and they will ship them to Klingbeil. They charge actual shipping (about $4 UPS), and have the most incredibly low prices. You can reach them via email at MIGOLD22@AOL.COM (Mike). I have bought Gold Seals from them for $335 and Coronation Aces for $145.

[sk8er1964]

angelskates - I pm'd you some info.

[angelskates]

thanks so much for your replies. I'll get in touch with Mike once Klingbeil tell me the blade size I need. Hurray for the internet!

[Isk8NYC]

You can buy your blades from the pro shop at the Cantiague (Long Island, NY) pro shop and they will ship them to Klingbeil. ... You can reach them via email at MIGOLD22@AOL.COM (Mike).
I bought my Gold Seals from Mike. Great price and he's very nice to deal with, too. I just wish that I had let Klingbeil mount the blades instead of Mike. Water under the bridge.

BTW, can blades be sharpened before they're put on the boots? If not, you'll have to get them sharpened after they're mounted.

[angelskates]

I will most probably somehow buy my blades from Mike and then get him to send them to Klingbeil to mount. My blades have always been sharpened when they have arrived, and sent with guards. 100% ready for the ice. But then I got them at the same place as my boots....

I don't know if they can be sharpened before be mounted though, but I don't see why not...good thing to ask though. There's no way I would let anyone at either of my rinks here anywhere near my blades to sharpen them.

[luna_skater]

Yes, blades can be sharpened before they are on the boot. I just ordered a pair of blades for a friend of mine who lives in Saskatoon (I ordered them in Calgary for her because she saves on PST) and they sharpened the blades before I took them to Saskatoon for her.

[angelskates]

Now more questions.....

There are so many options with the boots that are not fully explained, so what features do you have, why and do you like them?? Especially would appreciate info on the tongue types.

My options a-plenty are as follows:

Type of boot: freestyle, synchro, dance (a given, I am having freestyle)

Colour: black, white, beige, suede (I am having white)

Strength: not too strong, strong, very strong

Tongue: grey rubber only, half and half, wool, reinforced, grey rubber/ black centre, grey rubber wool centre

Lining: smooth, suede (I *think* my Grafs are suede, but not too sure.....)

Add on: lunge pads R L, notch, cut down back

Sole: finished. unfinished, black (what is finished and unfinished????)

Heel height: standard, special height

Ankle padding: heavy, normal, heel lock (what is heel lock????)

Any advice, explanations etc would be appreciated, I wish Klingbeil had more info on their website!!

[vesperholly]

Strength: not too strong, strong, very strong

I am working on doubles, skate 6hrs/wk. I got strong, had my boots rebuilt after about 1.5 yrs. Breakin time was about 3weeks the first time and 1.5 after the rebuild which will probably last me another 6mo.

[/b]Tongue: grey rubber only, half and half, wool, reinforced, grey rubber/ black centre, grey rubber wool centre[/b]

I had wool on my first customs, then rubber sponge on the second, and went back to wool for Klingbeils. I *love* the wool, it's much more forgiving than the rubber and simply feels better. Not sure what half and half or reinforced means.

Lining: smooth, suede (I *think* my Grafs are suede, but not too sure.....)

I have suede lining. It's nice, kind of grips your foot better. I didn't have any problems with rubbing or blisters, but if you have in the past you might consider smooth.

Add on: lunge pads R L, notch, cut down back

I didn't have any of these. Lunge pads are for synchro, cutdown backs are for dancers. Notch is a little cut in the laces at the ankle for easier bending.

Sole: finished. unfinished, black (what is finished and unfinished????)

It means they put a clear sealant like Sno Seal on it so water doesn't get in and rot the leather. I'd have them finish the sole. Black is for guys skates.

Heel height: standard, special height

Special height is only if you've got some preexisting needs, like you're a dancer or your skates before always had more heel height like mine.

Ankle padding: heavy, normal, heel lock (what is heel lock????)

I don't remember choosing ankle padding so I must've gotten normal. If your heel slips in your skates (mine doesn't), heel lock is probably something to help that - likely a special way of arranging the padding in the heel area.

[angelskates]

versperholly - thanks!

why would anyone ever get unfinished soles?

The tongue is the one I am most confused about - I heard from many people that the wool "flattens" rather quickly making it not so comfie, though it sure looks comfie to start with!!

I am getting suede lining too. Unsure about heel lock, my heel is beginning to slip in my Grafs, but I think it's only because they get loose so quickly because they are breaking down. :cry:

Does it cost more for the boots to be rebuilt? What does this process involve?

[vesperholly]

The tongue is the one I am most confused about - I heard from many people that the wool "flattens" rather quickly making it not so comfie, though it sure looks comfie to start with!!
<snip>
Does it cost more for the boots to be rebuilt? What does this process involve?
The wool does flatten slightly, but all you have to do is use a wide-tooth comb and puff it up a bit and it's back to normal. I wouldn't say that this is much of a detracting feature. They are SOOOO comfortable.

My boots were $50 to rebuild and $30 to replace the tongues. Really good deal for an extra 6-9mo use out of them. What they do is unstitch the sides, rip out the broken down leather and replace it. You'll have extra stitching when they sew it back up but it's really not noticeable at all. The new tongues made the biggest difference.

[Isk8NYC]

Strength: not too strong, strong, very strong
Sole: finished. unfinished, black (what is finished and unfinished????)

It means they put a clear sealant like Sno Seal on it so water doesn't get in and rot the leather. I'd have them finish the sole. Black is for guys skates.

Vesperholly's right about the Sno Seal, but Klingbeil doesn't usually apply it, they put packets in the skate box for your use. My Klingbeils came with a light coating of Polyurethane, but it really was not waterproof. My bets are that my boots were "finished." I found that, once I Sno Sealed, the Polyurethane wouldn't stick well.

I'm guessing that you wouldn't have an accessible Pro Shop in China that could perform this service, so maybe you should ask for Klingbeil to Waterproof the boots BEFORE the blades are mounted. (Someone told me that it's extra coats of Poly, which will protect the boot)

[angelskates]

okay, dumb question: why would anyone not get their soles waterproofed before having the blades mounted??

Thanks for everyone's help....think I'm going for wool....woohoo!

ISK8NYC: what tongue do you have on your Klingbeils? And everything else?

[luna_skater]

You can get your tongues replaced! 8O Just for Klingbeils, or for any boot? My tongues are so trashed, but affording whole new boots at this point is a far off dream. They are 7 years old, and I have had them rebuilt once.

[Isk8NYC]

I agree -- why don't they just waterproof them when they make them? I can only guess time and effort would only add to their cost. Maybe some people like to waterproof after adding the blades -- seal the blades to the boots? I dunno. Just thought you'd like to think about it.


My old Klingbeils' tongues were leather-and rubber. They had to be replaced twice because the rubber disintegrated, once when I had the skates rebuilt, most recently when Don made my "need to make these last another year" adjustment a few years ago.

My new Klingbeils have a leather tongue with rubber backing that goes against your foot. I don't remember Mr. Klingbeil giving me a choice, but these are Instructors' boots. I know other instructors who have the lambswool tongue, but they may have asked for that option. The box had two pieces of lambswool in it, so I tucked it into my skate bag. I use it when my ankles bother me. It's always very comfortable and warm. Maybe I'll switch -- you're making me think about a new pair!

I have a problem with tongues slipping and pressing a nerve on the inside of my ankle, so Don rigged the tongue to catch on the edge of the boot. Completely eliminated the tongue slipping to the inside. Ahh, relief.

Color:
I have beige skates and I dislike the fact that there are no cotton laces made in beige. The nylon laces cut my fingers when I pull them tight. I buy white laces and dye them with coffee and tea (and a little blue dye to offset the orange colors.) It's a pain -- guys have it easier on this mark. The beige does always look clean, even when they're filthy. (I picked beige since these were my "teacher's boots." Funny thing is, our rink's rentals are brown, so the skates don't stand out. Should have bought white.)

Lining:
My old skates were smooth, these were suede. Doesn't matter. After a few hours' sweat, the suede is basically smooth.

Rebuilds: I've never done this long-distance, but the last time I had Don rebuild my skates (10 years ago) it was free. Maybe they charge for it now. It's best to have Klingbeil rebuild their own skates, rather than a pro shop.

Most pro shops charge at least $50 for a rebuild of a Jackson or Reidell skate. Not sure if you can have tongues replaced on skates other than Klingbeils or if the heat-molded skates can even be rebuilt.

Service:
I've never had a problem with service with Klingbeil, but I've been a customer (and now a referral) for many years. If you've never been to Klingbeil's, please be aware that it's not a "high tech" place, so e-mail is a bit new to them. I've never mail-ordered from them, since I live less than an hour away. Everyone I know looks forward to visiting them, especially given their clientele and the very strong coffee. Never know who you might get to caffe-clatch with in this little shop.

[vesperholly]

You can get your tongues replaced! 8O Just for Klingbeils, or for any boot? My tongues are so trashed, but affording whole new boots at this point is a far off dream. They are 7 years old, and I have had them rebuilt once.
I've only had it done on my Klingbeils, but I'm sure you can get it done for other custom boots too. That was the best thing I ever did for my skates.

[jenlyon60]

Current pair of Klingbeils.....

cut 3/4" inch lower all the way around on the top.

gray rubber w/ black inset rubber piece in the center where the lacing would press against the ankle tendon

double strength

tan leather

I had the soles water-proofed after I got them, by the pro shop that was mounting my blades.

[angelskates]

About the tongues...you can get the blue foam bit replaced if you have Grafs, but I've forgotten what it costs. Makes all the difference though, I have heard, though I have never had it done.

I am so glad this waterproofing subject came up, I definitely want to ask for mine to be waterproofed, then the blades mounted.

Another question about the tongue, does the lambwool/other options have the bit at the sides that go under where the hooks are, making the hooks not press into the ankle? Grafs blue foam sticks out on the sides, you put it under the hooks and then lace, SO comfie not having those hook backings dig into me!

I have beige skates and I dislike the fact that there are no cotton laces made in beige. The nylon laces cut my fingers when I pull them tight. I buy white laces and dye them with coffee and tea (and a little blue dye to offset the orange colors.)

Interesting not that there are no beige laces where you are. I have never needed to look. I am about to get cottons in my Grafs since my hands/fingers are now so dry and calloses/blisters are forming from pulling them tight. I went to the markets the other day to look for them (am using long laces that apparently go in these funky Chinese boots, I have seen actually skate laces) and they have beige. Let me know if you would you like me to send you some.

[dbny]

Another question about the tongue, does the lambwool/other options have the bit at the sides that go under where the hooks are, making the hooks not press into the ankle? Grafs blue foam sticks out on the sides, you put it under the hooks and then lace, SO comfie not having those hook backings dig into me!


I'm not sure what you mean about the sides of the tongue, but none of us has ever had a problem with the backs of the hooks pressing into our ankles. I think the tongue is wide enough to prevent that.

[angelskates]

I've got the special foam! :) Delievered to my door today! Only problem is, while I have done all the measurements carefully, the foam hasn't come with instructions! I have emailed them, do I just stand in it? For how long? Wearing stockings? (I skate in stockings or stockingettes)??

Will be requesting that they contact me as soon as they know the blade size so that I can order blades and ask Mike to send them.....

[skatepixie]

Wear what you wear while skating.

[angelskates]

My boots have arrived!! They fit perfectly and I like the way my name has been etched into the sole, as well as a flower!

The only think is that the top of the tongue rubs against my ankle, especially when I bend. I will not laced the top hooks for a bit and will bandage for tomorrow (when I first wear them on the ice). I don't really want to get bunga (?) pads if I don't have to, since I don't already have them and they would be a hassle to get!

The boots are actually really comfie and look great, glad I decided on the wool tongue!

Thanks for everyone's advice and suggestions!

[dbny]

My boots have arrived!! They fit perfectly and I like the way my name has been etched into the sole, as well as a flower!

The only think is that the top of the tongue rubs against my ankle, especially when I bend. I will not laced the top hooks for a bit and will bandage for tomorrow

Glad you like them. The flower is an edelweiss, as the Klingbeil family is from Switzerland.

Try some moleskin for a week or two. I never had that problem, but I also did not have a standard tongue. Another thing you can do is lace to the top, but don't use the setback hooks.

[lil-sk8r-chick5]

klingbeils? ive never herd of them b4---> man lol i better get with the program! :frus: LoL! are they really good skates? lol i love my grafs lol hmmm maybe i should try them? for what level are they for? cuz im just learing my tripples and *trying* to land my double axle.
hope you can help :P ;)

[dbny]

Why change if you're happy with what you've got? Boots are a very individual thing. Sasha Cohen and Sarah Hughes, among others wear Klingbeils, but that doesn't mean they are the right boots for you.

[angelskates]

5 sessions on the ice (including two one hour lessons) and they are as good as gold. Am still not using the setback hooks, and have a bit of padding around the ankles. Now am working on getting rid of the *things* (no idea what they are corns, bunions....??) on the bottom of my feet that my Grafs put there.

My Grafs were definitely more comfortable from day one, but gradually got worse. Looks like my Klingbeils are the opposite. :)

Interestingly, last night a friend of mine with feet two-three sizes smaller than mine tried on my Grafs and they fit her! A small bit too bit maybe but I was suprised. I never thought my Grafs were too small...how can my feet grow? I am 25!

[lil-sk8r-chick5]

Why change if you're happy with what you've got? Boots are a very individual thing. Sasha Cohen and Sarah Hughes, among others wear Klingbeils, but that doesn't mean they are the right boots for you.

thanks...! its weired i no lots of ppl who hate grafs and i love them i dont no why maybe its just that ive always had them and didnt have a problem witht them