It's Not Raining Men!

[Isk8NYC]

Am I off-base in thinking that there are more girls and women in skating than boys and men? I haven't done any scientific experiments or studies, but I see two boys at a freestyle filled with 10 girls. I also see two girls on a hockey practice filled with 20 boys. There's a real imbalance here.

In Dance and Pairs, there is a real need to attract more male partners. (Let's not look at rule changes yet.)

How can Skating attract more boys and men?
Let's do some brainstorming, but agree to disagree agreeably, please!

(Hmmm... We haven't had nastiness on this site in a while.
My compliments to our members!)

[garyc254]

Boys/men will more than likely drawn to hockey skates. Hence, less male figure skaters.

Many fathers wouldn't think of letting their sons wear figure skates. I had a young lad in one of my learn-to-skate classes who wore figure skates for stability as long as his mother brought him to class, but when dad showed up the hockey skates went on instead. We were "informed" that he would take all of his lessons in hockey skates.

[Isk8NYC]

Boys/men will more than likely drawn to hockey skates. Hence, less male figure skaters.
In this instance, an instructor or skating director can explain that the changing skates back-and-forth slows down his learning. Most of the FIGURE SKATING/LTS instructors I know lean towards figure skates for beginners believing the boots and blades to be easier to learn on. HOCKEY instructors say it doesn't matter. That's a debate for another topic, though. Your example, (and a mighty good one, I might add) is about parents' prejudice.

How can everyone involved with SKATING overcome that
"Boys must play hockey" bias and the other obstacles to males in figure skating?

[garyc254]

In this instance, an instructor or skating director can explain that the changing skates back-and-forth slows down his learning.

I tried that.

Dad "informed" me in no uncertain terms that his son would learn on hockey skates or not at all. One of those "end of discussion" comments.

[fadedstardust]

Sadly I don't think the "stigma" of being a male skater will ever go away. People will most likely always have small minds (the masses, not EVERYONE), and see a guy with sequins or a sparkly outfit at the Olympics and think they are gay (which, there is not even anything wrong with in the first place, but many straight men don't want to be thought of that way, and it's sad that they should have to be just because of a stupid costume.) Some people (a lot of people) also don't think skating is a sport, they think skating is ballet on ice. It's usually useless to try to show them aerobic activity reports, or the number of muscles or amount of strength needed, because these people will not listen, ever. If it's set to music and has judges, it's a ballet recital to them.

I think that one thing is for sure though, and that is that while it's very sad that men are risking ridicule to be in this sport, to be successful requires so much dedication and so many set backs that if they aren't ready to deal with a little bit of flack for taking up the sport, they probably don't love it enough to stick it out after a broken ankle or one too many falls or two years of doing the same jump and not landing it. Just my thoughts on this. If I loved something, I wouldn't care what other people thought. If I'm ready to give it up because of peer pressure, then it didn't really matter to me that much anyway. I assume (perhaps I'm wrong) that most people function the same.

[Figureskates]

From my own personal experience as an adult male figure skater.

For the last three years, I am the only adult male taking adult group lessons out of group of 13. But I am not complaining because many of them are good friends and really help me a lot during practice sessions. As one said with a smile, "We have to take care of our token male."

At Adult Skate Week at Lake Placid in August, the last 4 years, males make up about 10% of the group, and this out of about 70+ people.

As far as the younger set here where I live, I have seen maybe 4 to 5 boys pursuing figure skating versus a hundred Plus young ladies.

It definitely is stigma issue as well. I have been teased by many of my co-workers for not persuing a more "manly" sport. But it really is hard to take 20-something or 30-something who is 40 to 70 pounds overweight seriously when he is criticizing someone who is a trim 6 footer, 58 years old and weighs 172 pounds.

[NickiT]

Sadly I feel that there will always be a stigma when it comes to men and boys taking up figure skating. My own little boy has skated since the age of 2 and a half and is now almost 7. Three months ago he announced that he didn't want lessons anymore. He then returned for casual skating on club sessions and at that point I discovered he was in desperate need of new boots. He said he wanted new boots and to start lessons again, much to my joy and this afternoon he has his first lesson back in his new boots.

However every now and then he has told me that some of the year 1 kids (he's year 2, so we're talking 5 - 6 year-olds here) have been teasing him because he figure skates. I put two and two together and realised this was the likely reason why he was keen to give up. I find it so sad that kids so young can already latch onto the stigma and I can only assume it's down to their parents, but I feel it's very sad.

Thankfully there seems to be a few more boys taking up figure skating at our club which is great to see, but I guess it will always predominately be seen as a female sport.

Nicki

[Mrs Redboots]

Your club has a lot of boys, though, compared to some. Thankfully, at our rink, because we have two straight male coaches (and one gay one) as role models, and two senior and two junior international dance couples, plus goodness knows how many "skating dads", there is no such stigma, and we get a lot of boys and young men. Not that they all last, any more than the girls do, but at least they start out, and often do dance or pairs.

Mind you, we do (or did) have a women's hockey team, too, so we aren't prejudiced either way. ;)

[CanAmSk8ter]

I think having male figure skating instructors for the learn-to-skate levels can help tremendously. We're lucky to have two at my rink, and I know of at least one little boy who started out wanting to do hockey and switching due to the influence of one of our male coaches, and I know another little guy who likes to skate but has no interest in hockey and has really gotten into figure skating through working with our other male coach. I've always been a bit of a tomboy, and I absolutely LOVE teaching the little boys, but I think having the male coaches for them is very helpful.

I also think that having a coach or two, especially male, who can teach both hockey skills and figure skating and can maybe "convert" some little hockey boys helps. We've had some luck with this, too.

[fadedstardust]

Sometimes it's also good to show the little boys in learn to skate how much fun figure is. I remember I was practicing before going on to coach learn to skate once, and this little boy came up to me and said "will you teach me to spin like that?!??!!" and I was like "oh, I would, but you're wearing hockey skates, so you have no toe pick, and you can't do it...." he promptly showed up for the lesson and everyone thereafter in figure skates. Gotta let 'em know what they are missing. :)

[dbny]

I was chatting with a mom of three boys (two on the ice) whose younger one could not stand up at all. Turned out he was wearing his older brother's cast off skates, which dad had said were "fine", but which were actually too big for the poor kid. I suggested to the mom that figure skates were easier to learn in, since he would need to rent after all, and she immediately said that dad didn't want him in "girl's skates". Blech! So many sickos among us.

[Lmarletto]

At one rink in our area, the LTS coaches encourage everyone to start out in figure skates, but at another rink they require it.

As the mother of a young hockey player, I agree there are huge cultural obstacles for any boy who even thinks he might like to try figure skating. But frankly, the figure skating culture itself is very mysterious and intimidating to a boy who might secretly long to jump in his hockey skates. There seems to be a sort of "Olympics as the ultimate goal" mindset that pervades the sport. Not that everyone doesn't recognize that only a handful will ever get that far, but practically from LTS, skating exists for programs and competitions. I don't think, for the most part, figure skating coaches are very smart about marketing figure skating to boys.

For example, hockey guy public session guards fool around with little hockey player wannabes. They play tag with them, which is an excellent way to get kids to increase their speed and really get their blades into the ice. With older kids, "tagging" is by huge sprays of ice generated from hockey stops. One guard who played with my son quickly saw that he was only stopping with the right foot in front and announced that only sprays from the left foot counted. That motivated my son in a way that a regular skating lesson never would have.

If older male figure skaters were as visible and accessible at public sessions, little boys would have an opportunity to sort of "taste" figure skating without having to commit to it. A really sly figure skater would show up in hockey skates, giving himself instant credibility with little hockey players, and then slip in a few single jumps here and there. (I guess only edge jumps would be possible in hockey skates?) Once kids get a taste of jumping and feel their hockey skates holding them back, they would be much more likely to consider putting on a pair figure skates. Or if you had male guard in hockey skates and a male ice dancer in dance skates, both playing tag with the kids, it would quickly become obvious that the dancer could skate circles around everyone else.

A few hockey players who are acquainted with male figure skaters, doing technically atrocious jumps during a few moments of down time at hockey practice would be the proverbial foot in the door. The excuse that you need figure skates to do certain cool things that just aren't possible in hockey skates would seem fairly reasonable in that environment. A bunch of hockey players dabbling in figure skating without anyone harping on their "technique" would create an environment where boys who are sorely tempted by serious figure skating could feel comfortable enough to actually pursue it. And when those atrocious jumpers get to the age where impressing girls really matters to them, they might be more inclined to try some dance lessons, maybe with a girlfriend, maybe just to draw the eye of female figure skaters. But none of this would really be about competing or long term goals or any of that stuff. It would only be about meeting the needs of boys as the boys see them. Overcoming the "figureskating is girly" mindset and getting boys to commit to competitive figureskating, all at once, is just an impossible task.

Lu

[Mrs Redboots]

One ice dance club targeted the male figure skaters with large posters on their notice board asking "Wouldn't you prefer to skate with a woman than with a stick?" I asked one of my hockey-playing friends this, and he sucked his teeth, thought for a moment, and then said, "No, sticks don't argue!" :lol: I have to admit he has a point! ;)

On the other hand, one of our lads can't quite decide whether he wants to dance or do free skating; he now has a regular dance partner, and I think they will enter some competitions together this year, but he does enjoy his free-skating lessons, too. But we pointed out to him that even the whisper of an idea that he might like to dance brought girls and young women flocking to the rink to try out with him as a potential partner - "If you want to be well and truly run after," we said, "You'll focus on dance!"

In reply to LMarletto's concerns about competitions and so on, surely these are the equivalent, in figure skating, of hockey matches? They are what you learn and practice and play and spend time on the ice in order to be able to do. And, if you have inter-Club competitions, you are just as much skating for your club, and part of the team, as if you were playing hockey for your club. Being part of a team is important, as you can encourage and help one another when on the ice. Dance has its social side, of course, and that too is fun - you don't absolutely have to test and compete if you dance, although lots of people do.

[Figureskates]

Good point about the rink guards wearing hockey skates.

I am a rink guard at my rink on weekends and I wear my figure skates. In one session some boys were acting up and going faster than what the crowd allowed so I went off to speak to them.

One little boys said when I arrived on the scene in a split second, after looking down at my figure skates said, "You're fast in those things!!"

Liked your poster in the rink, Mrs. Redboots. I totally agree. Who wouldn't want to be on an ice session, surrounded by many females in shape? hello?
Also I find it is a great ice breaker (pardon the pun). I find it very easy to go up and talk to any female and not feel I am some seedy old man. Many times I will see a lady doing something I am trying to master and I ask her to show me. They have always olbliged and I have learned quite a few shortcuts and helpful hints that way.

[Isk8NYC]

These are all great suggestions! Keep 'em coming.

[Bogie88]

Have to agree that a lot of the problem starts with very few male skaters being visible at all at skating rinks. Lately, though, I have noticed a few little boys starting to appear in the LTS classes. My son is the only male skater at a higher test level, and they all make a point of watching his practices and "hanging out" with him, probably because he's like them off ice and will throw balls around in the lobby and play hide and seek in the locker rooms, unlike many of the girls (fortunately, the rink management turns a blind eye so far...!) The hockey players consider him one of their own, mainly because rink management and the hockey coaches won't put up with any overt teasing or harassment of him, which goes a long way to making it a more pleasant environment for my son. It also doesn't hurt to have 50 plus girls and skating moms being very attentive and supportive during practices and at competitions :lol: We recently had a group of teenage guys at the rink waiting for the public session, and they were being quite rowdy in making fun of my son who was on the freestyle until they were suddenly surrounded by a pack of skating moms who proceeded to let the teenagers know that they had better shape up. My son was oblivious to the whole thing, but even if he had he wouldn't have cared, because by this point the years of acceptance and support had "inoculated" him against being sensitive to this nastiness from ignorant men.

I think every male figure skater becomes, whether he asked for the role or not, an ambassador of the sport. If guys are truly passionate about it, they will stay. If they are given support, respect and encouragement from their peers and the grownups around them, things are going to be much better for them. The next time you see a male skater at your rink, go up and give them a compliment or supportive words on a bad day. Keep an eye out for rude comments directed at the boy, or behind his back, and confront the people saying things, or inform rink management or the coach. Keep trying to educate new parents, and encourage dads to watch the practice sessions--the guys aren't wearing sequins then!

[fadedstardust]

A really sly figure skater would show up in hockey skates, giving himself instant credibility with little hockey players, and then slip in a few single jumps here and there. (I guess only edge jumps would be possible in hockey skates?)
Lu

Nope, actually even edge jumps require a toe pick- it's the last thing to leave the ice and digs into it to propulse you up. Without it you've pretty much got nothin'. Which is why hockey skates aren't fun. :P

[Lmarletto]

Nope, actually even edge jumps require a toe pick- it's the last thing to leave the ice and digs into it to propulse you up. Without it you've pretty much got nothin'. Which is why hockey skates aren't fun. :P

Hmm...a couple of years ago I watched a guy at our rink in hockey skates do single rotation jumps. They were not pretty. :lol: But I assumed they were that way because he was a hockey player and not a figure skater. I don't remember what he actually did with his feet. I do remember that he landed on one foot because the two hockey kids trying to imitate him only managed a 1/2 rotation, landed on two feet and then picked one up to try to convince him they'd done it. :lol: These days I would pay more attention to the details.

[Lmarletto]

In reply to LMarletto's concerns about competitions and so on, surely these are the equivalent, in figure skating, of hockey matches? They are what you learn and practice and play and spend time on the ice in order to be able to do. And, if you have inter-Club competitions, you are just as much skating for your club, and part of the team, as if you were playing hockey for your club. Being part of a team is important, as you can encourage and help one another when on the ice. Dance has its social side, of course, and that too is fun - you don't absolutely have to test and compete if you dance, although lots of people do.

This is something I've thought about a lot - maybe too much, judging by how much I seem to be able to write about it. ;) But IMO the emotional environment on a hockey team is completely different than anything available in figure skating. You are buried under a mountain of gear, you're on the ice for maybe a minute at a time with four other teammates, and while the coach wants everyone to play a certain way, as long as the puck gets into the net, the job has been done. Ideally a good hockey player is like a cog in a machine. Even in a team format, which seems to be the exception rather than the rule around here, a figure skater is still alone and exposed by comparison.

I don't mean to suggest that I think the competitive environment in figure skating is necessarily inferior or unhealthy. But I do think it suits a particular sort of temperament. And by encouraging boys with another sort of temperament to just play around a bit with figure skating, learning some cool tricks, badly done, you make it that much easier for their little friends who might be inclined to be serious about it to actually take some steps in that direction.

I also think that by the age that the lure of girls becomes effective (as in, they care more about impressing girls than they do their male peers), boys are too old to start a serious competitive career. They are still young enough though to become the sort of man who wouldn't mind if his son chose figure skating over hockey. I really think that's how far ahead you need to be thinking if you want to increase the number of boys in figure skating.

[Mrs Redboots]

You are buried under a mountain of gear, you're on the ice for maybe a minute at a time with four other teammates, and while the coach wants everyone to play a certain way, as long as the puck gets into the net, the job has been done. Ideally a good hockey player is like a cog in a machine. Even in a team format, which seems to be the exception rather than the rule around here, a figure skater is still alone and exposed by comparison.Well, I take your point. Although, used as I am to British team sports, the idea of being on the ice only for one minute during a match that lasts a minimum of 15 minutes each way, strikes me as very odd! Even in a synchronised skating team, you're usually on the ice for longer than that!

I don't mean to suggest that I think the competitive environment in figure skating is necessarily inferior or unhealthy. But I do think it suits a particular sort of temperament. And by encouraging boys with another sort of temperament to just play around a bit with figure skating, learning some cool tricks, badly done, you make it that much easier for their little friends who might be inclined to be serious about it to actually take some steps in that direction.Oh, I totally agree with you about that. I went down to the end of the teatime session last night, before dance club, and had a look round our rink - there were quite possibly equal numbers of males and females (both adult, young adult, and kids) on the ice, including several grown men - my husband, the father of two young skaters whose whole family is learning together and loving this new hobby, two of the coaches and various male dance partners. The dancers had more-or-less finished their serious work, and at least one of them was playing with some of the younger children - again, an excellent role model. And for part of the time in Dance Club I was the only woman dancer with three potential male partners! I thought of this thread.....

[plinko]

My oldest, full of spit, demonstrated axels to his hockey buddies, on hockey skates, and didn't knock out his front teeth much to my surprise.

We have male coaches, and older boys who skate in our club and they all are visible on the ice during learn to skate sessions, either coaching or helping out. They all wear figure skates and love to show off what they can do.

Now if someone came up to me and said, hey I see your son skates and how do I get my boy started, well I might just offer to lend a pair of black skates and convince a coach to offer a complimentary lesson. That's what someone did for us.

[Elsy2]

Nope, actually even edge jumps require a toe pick- it's the last thing to leave the ice and digs into it to propulse you up. Without it you've pretty much got nothin'. Which is why hockey skates aren't fun. :P
I'll admit I haven't been reading this thread....but I do know our male figure skaters love to skateguard in hockey skates, and yes, they can jump in them.
8O

[fadedstardust]

Well, that's cool, I guess you can then. But they can't be "textbook" correct jumps. Not that it's really the point, I just don't see how you're supposed to hook any edge jump without a pick, since even in axels, salchows, and stuff, the toepick mark is clear in the tracing. But I wouldn't know because I've never tried jumping in hockey skates, nor would I really want to. I don't think it's a good way to get boys interested in figure skating, personally. That's like giving a kid a G.I. joe and hoping it'll lead him to agree to playing Barbie with his sister. It's viewed as a women's sport (it's not, it's just viewed that way), and for a boy to be interested he has to look past that. Mainly that comes with maturity, but luckily, men tend to be older in the field so it's not a big deal if they start later, either.

And I agree with many posters, it also has a LOT to do with what the dad teaches the kid. If the dad doesn't want him in "girl's skates" he obviously needs to get a clue and not teach his son prejudice like that- clearly both men and women figure skate and it only teaches his son to look down on those who do. Gosh, I wish people felt free to do whatever they wanted as long as it didn't hurt anyone or themselves. People are way too concerned about what others think, it comes out in this thread from you guys' stories with boys and their dads, and it makes me really sad. :(

[Isk8NYC]

Now if someone came up to me and said, hey I see your son skates and how do I get my boy started, well I might just offer to lend a pair of black skates and convince a coach to offer a complimentary lesson. That's what someone did for us.That's a great idea: how about a special "boys only" clinic during National Skating Week? Or a "singles night" to attract some grown men?

[twokidsskatemom]

We are lucky we have some pairs and ice dancers that are very nice boys that my son looks up to. He wants to be like them.
It would be nice to have some younger boys as well,all of the ones her that are young are into hockey.Guess its nice my son is used to being friends with girls.

[flippet]

I don't mean to suggest that I think the competitive environment in figure skating is necessarily inferior or unhealthy. But I do think it suits a particular sort of temperament.
This is true--figure skating is really a pretty solitary sport, all things considered. It's much more introverted--and hockey seems to me to be far more extroverted--the focus is almost entirely exterior (get the puck in the net), while the figure skating focus is almost entirely interior (keep that shoulder up, head up, bend the knees). It truly does take a different kind of person, and especially at younger ages, I think that there simply may be more girls with a suitable temperament than boys. Girls learn much earlier how to have that internal conversation with themselves, and be internally focused. This doesn't excuse teasing or stopping the boys that do have the right internal skills, however.



They are still young enough though to become the sort of man who wouldn't mind if his son chose figure skating over hockey. I really think that's how far ahead you need to be thinking if you want to increase the number of boys in figure skating.
This is really very good--I think you're right. You're not going to change the imbalance overnight, it's going to take a steady change of attitude. Which only tells me that I really need to get back into skating myself, and my husband as well--he's one of those 'sensitive males' :D who really likes the challenge of figure skating--I don't think hockey's ever interested him at all. And, I'll have to get my son skating in a couple more years--he seems to be a real charmer, and will probably be swarmed with girls. :lol: Hubby would actually rather that his son figure skate--so if that kind of family thing were more visible at the local rink, it would probably help the perception a lot.