"Adults National 2005 or Bust" Support Group

[jazzpants]

Just thought I start a support group for those who are pre-Bronze level and are struggling to pass their Bronze Moves or FS tests. Backspin trouble? Power 3's giving you the FITS!?!?! Loop jump disappearing on you? This group is for YOU!!! (Of course all level are welcome to join in on the discussion, but the aim is to support skaters who are STUCK in pre-Bronze and are trying hard this year to become eligible for Adults Nationals.)

I'll start with my secondary coach asked me "so... when are you taking your test?" I wouldn't answer her. She then yelled out "CHICKEN!!! Boc boc boc boc..." :lol: (Nice try, coach!!! But I go when I know I'm ready for it!!!)

Last week was primary coach's turn!!! (Eh... they don't seemed to *GET* that I don't HAVE my power 3's yet?!?!?!?!) :roll: *sigh*

I'll humor them and file for a July or August test date. That should be enough time to get that final power 3's working to passing level!!! (The rest of my moves look funky but they WILL pass too!!)

[Figureskates]

Yup, just about explains my situation to a T.

Alternating 3's are the bain of my existence!! But I am a very patient person so I will also consider 2006, 2007, 2008.....just as long as I do it before I collect Social Security!!

[sk8pics]

Me, too! After my next competition is over, I told my coach I wanted to work harder on the bronze moves, and he was agreeable. We've already started a bit. My hope is actually to pass the bronze moves by this time next year, but I don't think bronze freestyle is possible at the same time. So maybe it will be 2006 or bust, for me!

But count me in!

Pat

[skaternum]

I love the idea, jazzpants! I'm already in at Silver, but I support you guys 100%. Those power 3s and backspins are wicked. But you can do it!! (Where's the smiley with the look of grim determination?)

[Figureskates]

Just got back from my lesson.....oh my alternating 3's are still rank. You gotta air out the rink after my practice!!

Coach said they are improving...maybe I am just being a little hard on myself!!

[kisscid]

Count me in. I am in the process of finding a coach now. I hope to be ready for 2005!!! Got a lot of work a head of me. Hey jazzpants. Why do you have 2 coaches? Pardon my ignorance but I have never heard of this. Do they ever give you conflicting advice?
Anyway. I've been watching the coacheds at my rink and there's one I may interview. I still have 2 other local rinks to check out before I actually settle on a coach. I am also looking for new skates. What I'm skating in now are great for real beginner, but I'm a little more advanced than that. There is an inter-club competion here in June. I may shoot for that as an experiment in competing...Or I may chicken out..who knows :P
Cid

[jazzpants]

Alternating 3's have also been :evil: for me for a while. They're now just starting to look decent, but they're not perfect. (I occasionally lose the BI edge after the FO3's and have to put my foot down.)

Practice FO and FI edges FIGURES (half circle) if anyone around here does not have a strong FO3 or FI3 edge! Trust me! They will help! Do a half circle to start. When you can do at least a half circle, 3's should become easier. Not only will it make it easier to do alternating 3's in the end, but as someone comment, you end up looking more like a "professional" in the end.

You will also need to master the FO alt. 3's in order to learn power 3's too! (Guess how I know? :roll: )

[Mel On Ice]

Remember everyone... I'm bringing the champagne so we can toast ourselves, final qualifying placements be damned!

[Terri C]

On lesson with Coach this week, we started power 3's on the long axis. My issues are starting out and that funky, award end pattern, where you hold the back undercut and step onto the LFO edge. Any ideas out there on that??
Also, was discussing the Hackensack application with Coach as to what is my most difficult jump landed consistently- it's not the loop- it's still cheated!! :frus:

It gets better, since I'm in new boots as of yesterday!! :D

[jenlyon60]

For the choctaw into the repeat, I think about

--Stepping under the armpit of the leading arm

and

-- Keeping the weight on my skating side and mid-blade until I step forwards. I find if I don't keep pressure at least mid-blade, I develop a terrible case of toe pick meeting the ice as I do the choctaw.

For the start (assuming LFO3s first), right now I do only 4 strokes (L, R, L, R) then onto the left for the first turn, leading with the left side and rotating into the turn. This turn is the worst of the left side for me because I tend to rush it very badly...

[icedancer2]

I thought the end pattern on the power-3s was optional. Is there a "right" way and a wrong way? I've seen it done lots of ways...

I agree that the "choctaw" part of the move is the hardest part -- especially on the right threes for me!!

[jazzpants]

For the start (assuming LFO3s first), right now I do only 4 strokes (L, R, L, R) then onto the left for the first turn, leading with the left side and rotating into the turn. This turn is the worst of the left side for me because I tend to rush it very badly...I HATE this part the WORST!!! :evil: Of course, this part is critical in making sure I get enough power for the power 3's, but man, do I get nervous trying to stroke into it. I just sorta "shuffle" into the first LFO3 instead. (Yeah, I know! I'm CHICKEN!!!) :oops: :frus:

[jenlyon60]

When I first started, I would just continue doing back crossovers around the rink (i.e. do a CCW back crossover after the CW crossover of the last sequence)...but then I would build up too much speed for my comfort zone, considering my RFO3 side was the weaker side, and bottle the first RFO3 sequence very badly much of the time.

so then I started just stepping forward again and doing some forward strokes around the end, then a mohawk to get backwards, 1 CCW back crossover and start the RFO side. Seems to work better for me.

I thought the end pattern on the power-3s was optional. Is there a "right" way and a wrong way? I've seen it done lots of ways...

I agree that the "choctaw" part of the move is the hardest part -- especially on the right threes for me!!

[jenlyon60]

My philosophy (and we all know how I hate anything resembling intro 3's...)

Do it at your comfort zone. Then get a good power transition from the LBI to the RBI, and do good powerful strong back crossover into the next sequence. With good power BI-BI transitions and strong slow crossovers, you can pick up a heck of a lot of flow.

I HATE this part the WORST!!! :evil: Of course, this part is critical in making sure I get enough power for the power 3's, but man, do I get nervous trying to stroke into it. I just sorta "shuffle" into the first LFO3 instead. (Yeah, I know! I'm CHICKEN!!!) :oops: :frus:

[jenlyon60]

I have probably in isolation done twice as many choctaws on that side working to smooth that side out and for me the secret has largely been thinking of pulling down in the left back shoulder/upper back and keeping the weight on the left side as long as possible.

I'm faster on the Left side (very obviously slow), but often the turns are better placed on the right side.

I thought the end pattern on the power-3s was optional. Is there a "right" way and a wrong way? I've seen it done lots of ways...

I agree that the "choctaw" part of the move is the hardest part -- especially on the right threes for me!!

[sk8pics]

I HATE this part the WORST!!! :evil: Of course, this part is critical in making sure I get enough power for the power 3's, but man, do I get nervous trying to stroke into it. I just sorta "shuffle" into the first LFO3 instead. (Yeah, I know! I'm CHICKEN!!!) :oops: :frus:
OMG, I am also chicken about stroking into my 3-turns! My coach is starting to talk about how, "you know, you need to get comfortable with this," and I know, I know! This is also an issue for me on both the backward perimeter crossover stroking and the alternating back crossovers to back outside edges. Sigh.

On the bright side, we worked on the backward perimeter crossover stroking yesterday, and I am making progress at holding the edges and hitting all the correct edges. So I'm getting much more flow and speed. In fact, my coach said last night was the best he'd ever seen them! 8-) He was also very happy with the pattern on the forward perimeter crossover stroking, too.

Inch by inch, I guess things are improving!

Pat

[Figureskates]

My philosophy (and we all know how I hate anything resembling intro 3's...)

Do it at your comfort zone.

Do they allow you out on the ice in a La-Z-Boy recliner? That is my comfort zone!!

Seriously, my coach has made the same remark. Her philososphy is to expand my comfort zone closer and closer to those elements that I have trouble with.

[Mrs Redboots]

OMG, I am also chicken about stroking into my 3-turns! My coach is starting to talk about how, "you know, you need to get comfortable with this," and I know, I know! Me too. Don't you just hate it when coaches say that sort of thing. I turn round and say to my coach, "Yes, but HOW????" The trouble is, when it's a question of fear, he doesn't know how to help. Does anybody? My 3-turns are improving, but doing them at speed without a partner? No way! At least I can do them when moving (slowly) now, which I couldn't a couple of years ago.

[sk8pics]

I think the trick to overcoming fear is to do the skill in stages. So, I imagine first my coach will help me do that 3-turn at speed, and I'll see that I won't kill myself (although it will be close the first few times! 8O ), and then we'll work up to doing it on my own slowly, and then try to increase. Too bad we can't skate clockwise as my RFO3 is much stronger. But I'm hoping that when my power 3's get better it won't be so hard to do that first LFO3 at speed; please somebody, tell me that's true! ;) Or maybe my mohawk will improve faster than that 3-turn, and I'll use that to get turned around better. Of course, it's the other mohawk that's better than the one I'll need, doesn't it just figure?

Pat

[jenlyon60]

One does the skill on both sides... down one side of the rink doing LFO3 turns and back up the other side doing RFO3 turns. The current rulebook doesn't require a specific starting side (left or right) for the exercise, although most people start with the LFO3 side.

I have actually trained starting either side... the thought at one time being, to do the weaker side (for me, RFO3s and the LBI-RFO choctaw) first and get it over with, then relax and have fun with the left side.

[sk8pics]

jenlyon -- Yes, I know the power 3's are done on both sides, but normally, I believe you start off with the introductory steps as though you're going to skate counterclockwise around the rink, which means the normal way to go from forward to backward would be a LFO3 or a right forward inside mohawk. It would be much easier for me to start as if I was going to go clockwise around the rink and do a RFO3 or the other mohawk to get to a backwards position. I don't know how it would work for me to skate in the CCW direction and then do a RFO3, seems like it would be very odd.

Pat

[kisscid]

Where is AN-2005 going to be held?
Cid

[sk8er1964]

Where is AN-2005 going to be held?
Cid

Kansas City

[jenlyon60]

You'd be surprised how many people aren't always aware of what the rulebook says....

Anyways, here's a possibility...Do some strokes, do an RFI-LBI mohawk, CCW back crossover, step forward into the RFO3.

For the end pattern, either step forward, do some strokes and do the LFO3, or, stay backwards, do some CCW back crossovers, RBI cross in front (cross-cut) into the first LFO3 of the pattern for the left side.

This is what I did when I skated forward power 3's in the Bronze MIF event at the New Year Adult Invitational the other year.


jenlyon -- Yes, I know the power 3's are done on both sides, but normally, I believe you start off with the introductory steps as though you're going to skate counterclockwise around the rink, which means the normal way to go from forward to backward would be a LFO3 or a right forward inside mohawk. It would be much easier for me to start as if I was going to go clockwise around the rink and do a RFO3 or the other mohawk to get to a backwards position. I don't know how it would work for me to skate in the CCW direction and then do a RFO3, seems like it would be very odd.

Pat

[jazzpants]

One does the skill on both sides... down one side of the rink doing LFO3 turns and back up the other side doing RFO3 turns. The current rulebook doesn't require a specific starting side (left or right) for the exercise, although most people start with the LFO3 side.

I have actually trained starting either side... the thought at one time being, to do the weaker side (for me, RFO3s and the LBI-RFO choctaw) first and get it over with, then relax and have fun with the left side.My coaches would probably be okay with me doing it the other method (starting w/RFO3's first), but why makes things easier for me! :lol:

Seriously, either way I would have to do a LFO3's from forward strokes. Better to do them first and get them out of the way. (My RFO3's is my stronger side.) :P

[sk8pics]

You'd be surprised how many people aren't always aware of what the rulebook says....

Anyways, here's a possibility...Do some strokes, do an RFI-LBI mohawk, CCW back crossover, step forward into the RFO3.
That's the whole problem! My RFI-LBI Mohawk stinks. If I could do that, I'd be fine... Guess I'd better get cracking on it!

Thanks for the suggestion anyway.
Pat

[icedancer2]

It's interesting how a lot of us seem to have the same problem with the power 3s.

For the choctaw into the repeat, I think about

--Stepping under the armpit of the leading arm

and

-- Keeping the weight on my skating side and mid-blade until I step forwards. I find if I don't keep pressure at least mid-blade, I develop a terrible case of toe pick meeting the ice as I do the choctaw.



Thank you very much for this suggestion -- I tried this morning to think more about where my weight is on the blade, and found that I rock back too much, then can't turn forward (damn those MK Dance blades!) -- putting the weight mid-blade really really helped, also realized that I am probably leaning back too far and making it really really hard to step forward!

I see no reason why when testing you can't start with the RFO 3 -- that is going to be my plan when I take it -- get it over with and then enjoy the LFO for the rest of the Move. It's interesting to me also that my setup, placement etc., for the RFO3 is better than the LFO, but it's that darned turn forward! (choctaw, as it were).

[jenlyon60]

The current rulebook doesn't mandate a start side for the MIF. Which means one can do the "best side first" or the harder side first/best side last. Or... train both ways, and then pick which way to do it, based on starting location on the rink at your test session (our tests are usually double-paneled).

Of course, most people (kids and adults) tend to start with the LFO side, so that's what the judges are used to seeing.

Another tip... for most adults, sufficient power roughly translates to not more than 4 sequences per side (counting the first 3-turn out of open strokes). And the lobe with the back crossover can and should be bigger than the lobe with the turn.

Also, getting a good power and weight transition from the BI after the 3 turn to the other side BI before the back crossover also helps train for doing the FO3-BI3s in Silver MIF.

When they're working, I actually think it's a pretty neat move to skate.

[jenlyon60]

5-step mohawk (GACK!). I rush the RFI-LBI mohawk whenever I do this MIF. Can do beautiful LFI-RBI mohawks (I pretend I'm doing part of the Westminster Waltz), but don't get a good power stroke into the repeat with the RFI-LBI mohawks.

THis is a move that we got told I had to speed it way up, and we thought I was going at a reasonable clip, at the time, getting good flow and 5 sequences per side. But at a critique I went to, I got told "go faster" ... which did make it easier. So now we're working it faster, and it does flow better, and actually the RFI-LBI mohawk isn't as bad (the cadence for rest of the move is starting to match the cadence for my rushed RFI-LBI mohawk).

Of course, one can always do an extra LFO3 directly into a CCW crossover, then start the RFO3 pattern. But I'd rather do a mohawk with speed any day than a 3-turn.

That's the whole problem! My RFI-LBI Mohawk stinks. If I could do that, I'd be fine... Guess I'd better get cracking on it!

Thanks for the suggestion anyway.
Pat

[Michigansk8er]

I'm already Silver (I've never competed Silver though), but can I join in? I haven't competed in 2 years due to an injury............and my goal is to be back on the ice for KC.

Good luck everyone on your tests. You can do it!!!!

[jazzpants]

I'm already Silver (I've never competed Silver though), but can I join in? I haven't competed in 2 years due to an injury............and my goal is to be back on the ice for KC.But of course, you're quite welcome to join in!!! Especially if you have any valuable tips to share with us poor pre-Bronze souls! :lol: ;) (But everyone is welcome to join in.)

[mikawendy]

Do they allow you out on the ice in a La-Z-Boy recliner? That is my comfort zone!!


LOL, Figureskates! An adult skater at my rink jokes that he doesn't think it says anywhere in the rulebook that one can't do a Moves in the Field Test while using one of those metal support bars that the little tots use. :P

[jazzpants]

Do it at your comfort zone. Well, here lies the problem. My coaches both believe that in order to learn something I need to get a little bit away from the "comfort zone." The idea is that if you always do things from your comfort zone, you'll never improve. (BTW, Figureskates, I LOVE to have a La-Z-Boy on the ice too... but most of our coaches will likely hog it up!!!) :lol:

[jenlyon60]

True.

But one can still do Only the first "getting started" 3-turn at a slower tempo and then push like hades through the power transition and back crossovers and do the rest faster.

Which is what I'm currently doing on the forward power 3's (but not in my dances' intro 3's... on those coach wants full power and makes full power and then I choke most of the time)

[Mrs Redboots]

True.

But one can still do Only the first "getting started" 3-turn at a slower tempoThis "one" can only do the first 3-turn at a slower tempo! We did the Swing Dance today in our lesson (see Dusty or Sparkly thread for details), and I thought of you as I rather limped my way into the intro 3-turn...... mind you I did have very sharp skates (well, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it! ;)

[dani]

Well, here lies the problem. My coaches both believe that in order to learn something I need to get a little bit away from the "comfort zone." The idea is that if you always do things from your comfort zone, you'll never improve. (BTW, Figureskates, I LOVE to have a La-Z-Boy on the ice too... but most of our coaches will likely hog it up!!!) :lol:

I agree with your coaches. If you are slightly out of your comfort zone, you end up slowly moving your comfort zone. But I do think you need to spend time working in your zone. If you only work on things that are too hard (either really or mentally) then you will just frustrate yourself.

I have quite an eclectic past and one of the things I have worked on was juggling. I saw a very good juggler who said if you are having trouble juggling 4 items, then start working with 5! At that point when you go back to 4 it seems easier. I have noticed *some* things in skating where that applies.

Good luck and I can't wait to see you all at AN!

Hugs!
Danielle

[jazzpants]

YEEEEEE HAAAAW!!! Just practiced the forward power 3's this afternoon and they are finally getting some amount of speed (at least faster than a snail's pace now.) WOOOOO HOOO!!! Of course, I didn't try my luck further by doing waltz jumps afterwards! :P I hope I can get it to go even faster so I can get this %#$&@* moves test over and done with.

YAY ME!!! :mrgreen:

[Mrs Redboots]

Definitely Yay you! Well done - I hope it's reproducible.....;)

[jazzpants]

I'm filing my paperwork for Bronze Moves for the July test session. 8O 8O 8O

Wouldn't you know it? As soon as I told my primary coach that I would be signing up for July, the test anxiety sets in and the LFO3's disappears along with it? :roll:

(Okay!!! I was also tired from some other skating exercise I was doing too. And I suspect also that it's time to get my skates sharpened, since I was doing GREAT before the ice resurface break and doing crappy AFTER the ice resurface...and of course, I told my coach DURING the resurfacing...) :P

But I am still determined to test in July!

[PattyP]

I'm filing my paperwork for Bronze Moves for the July test session.

I just sent mine in to test Gold FS on May 21st! 8O I want to get it over with. This is my B-day, so I'm hoping if I tell the judges they will cut me some slack! haha :lol:

PattyP

[jenlyon60]

Coach wants me to put mine out in July also... I think it's mid to late July for our test session.

[Terri C]

For the boot break in process..... :cry: :cry:

I've been managing some spins and MIF, but that's it. The blades are temp mounted, and while my skate tech said I could jump, I'd rather play it safe until the mounts are permanent.
I'd like to try for the Bronze MIF in August, but we'll see how I progress.

[jazzpants]

I just sent mine in to test Gold FS on May 21st! 8O I want to get it over with. This is my B-day, so I'm hoping if I tell the judges they will cut me some slack! haha :lol:

PattyPMaybe you could bribe them w/some really good chocolate b-day cake? ;) :halo: :P

But I think you won't be needing the bribe anyway, so... good luck and "skate pretty" (as Jay would say...)

[jazzpants]

For the boot break in process..... :cry: :cry:

I've been managing some spins and MIF, but that's it. The blades are temp mounted, and while my skate tech said I could jump, I'd rather play it safe until the mounts are permanent.
I'd like to try for the Bronze MIF in August, but we'll see how I progress.I think you should go ahead and make the plans to test for August anyway but not file the paperwork in 'til it's closer to the deadline. That way you have a goal that you're aiming for.

Or you could always fill out the paperwork -- sans test date -- and have your coach turn in the paperwork for you with the caveat that your coach doesn't make you test earlier than the August test date and then work towards the August test date.

Just think! You'll have very comfortable boots when you're done with the break-in/mounting/etc. :mrgreen: (In my case though, I won't change the blade to my new boot until after I pass my Bronze Moves Test.)

[jazzpants]

Coach wants me to put mine out in July also... I think it's mid to late July for our test session.Good luck on your test session as well! I look forward to hearing good news around then! :mrgreen:

[jenlyon60]

I have to make it through 3 patterns of Blues and 2 or 3 patterns of Paso at Pro-Am first. :twisted:

But if I survive that, I can survive forward power 3s.

[Figureskates]

I just sent mine in to test Gold FS on May 21st! 8O I want to get it over with. This is my B-day, so I'm hoping if I tell the judges they will cut me some slack! haha :lol:

PattyP


Best of luck!!

[jazzpants]

Reviving this thread to see how everyone else is doing...

Well, I thought I was gonna test in July, but I am definitely signed up for August.

The bad part: They moved up the test date by almost one week b/c of synch camp!!! AUGH!!!! :frus: So my test date now is August 1st!!! (Two weeks from now!!!) I've resigned to the fact that I probably won't pass it this time around b/c of the $#$&@*(% forward power 3's on the LFO3's side. However, I've promised my coaches that I'm gonna give it my all on my practice for this test. The deadline has made me more determined to push for things and they are getting better now. At least I'm getting thru few more runthrus than before...which was NEVER!!! :frus:

Wish me luck going into the slaughter house!!! :P

[sk8pics]

Good luck, Jazzpants! I hate those left power 3's too! Maybe you'll have a breakthrough just in time!

I'll think of you on August 1; I'll be skating at Skate Wilmington that day, too!

Pat

[sk8er1964]

Good luck, Jazzpants. Think positive thoughts! :D