Another Interesting GC Issue for Adults

[jenlyon60]

from the GC Singles and Pairs committee Requests for Action

2. SSR 19.03 – Clothing and Skate Blades, page 164

MOVE to revise SSR 19.03 by the addition of the following sentence at the end of SSR 19.03:

Notwithstanding the above, ladies competing in adult competitions may wear trousers if they so choose.

Rationale: This proposal is offered to address concerns that there are some adult ladies who do not feel comfortable at this point in their lives appearing in a skating skirt or dress, but would still like to participate in adult competitions. Yes, they could tack a piece of skirt-like fabric to their trousers or wear heavy leg warmers under a long skirt to technically conform to the present rule, but why not let them be comfortable?

Financial Impact: None

[peaches]

:roll: Gee I wonder why a lady would be more comfortable in pants? Could it be because she can't get off her tush to be bothered to look more presentable? I think so!

[Stormy]

I ONLY practice in pants. I abhor dresses. Well, not abhor, but really dislike. :) I only wear them for tests and competitions. That said, I would never wear pants to compete or test. As much as I dislike dresses, it's part of the entire competition presentation package.
I'm surprised that's even an issue that's going to be raised!! Kinda annoying....they can't fix the MIF structure, but they can worry about women wearing pants! :evil:

[dbny]

:roll: Gee I wonder why a lady would be more comfortable in pants? Could it be because she can't get off her tush to be bothered to look more presentable? I think so!

I don't understand why you choose to be denigrating towards others. There is no reason at all why pants appropriate to the program would not be presentable.

Trolling, perhaps, Peaches?

[dbny]

I'm surprised that's even an issue that's going to be raised!! Kinda annoying....they can't fix the MIF structure, but they can worry about women wearing pants! :evil:

The MIF structure is complicated and not a simple thing to fix, whereas women have been complaining about the requirement to wear skirts and dresses for many years and the fix is truly simple. All of the pathetic excuses for requiring women to wear pants have become rather tiresome. To women over 50, this is a basic women's rights issue.

[Elsy2]

What comp. was I watching the other day where Fumie was wearing pants? (with a skirt over....). Worlds? I'm thinking it was Debbie Thomas who was wearing a one piece catsuit sort of outfit that started the whole rule about this?

[Azlynn]

^Yes, the skirt rule came in after Debbi and her unitard, in '88 as I recall.

Fumie wore pants with the skirt over for her Paint it Black program, the only place I actually saw the program was at the Grand Prix Final. In fact, here's a piccy...

http://brilm.homestead.com/files/suguri2-gp03_usfsanew.jpg

Courtesy of the USFSA, but linked from my webspace... couldn't find it on their site anymore, so can't point to the exact page it came from.

Personally, I feel the above is a viable option. I don't think many people realize that pants show just as much as a skirt... often more in some cases. I'd prefer not to see unitards myself, at least a skirt gives a chance that I won't always be having to look at someones wedgie. ;) Emmanuel and others have proven that they show off quite a lot on many occasions. ;)

Perhaps though, the issue isn't modesty (although some may feel that it is), but just the basic right to choose... not only personal choice, but to suit the program.

I totally understand that in this day and age, a woman should have a right to choose... but I also have a right to an opinion that pants look icky. :)

[jazzpants]

:roll: Gee I wonder why a lady would be more comfortable in pants? Could it be because she can't get off her tush to be bothered to look more presentable? I think so!AHEM!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Well, I like JAZZ PANTS b/c they're 1) comfy, 2) warm, and 3) it shows off my NICE SKATER'S BUTT!!! Plus, I like the dual purpose of being able to go to the gym right afterwards in it w/o getting funny stares. Most skating dresses I see are either 1) too young for me, 2) too OLD for me or 3) looks beautiful, but it's too EXPENSIVE!!! Skating dress may look fine for some, but skating dresses just AREN'T my style!!! I refuse to wear them unless I have to (for tests and competitions.) And frankly, I wouldn't mind it if they change the rules!!! It's about time!!!

Fumie Suguri managed to get around the rules because the rules says that you are supposed to wear a dress and the highest the skirt can be is hip level. It says NOTHING about wearing pants underneath. (It just looks kinda weird.) I know of a synch competition where the theme of the team were marching soldiers. The synch team had to adjust their costumes so that the top were skirts. (Except for the one guy that was on the team...) ;)

And as you can see, except for the white skates, it STILL gives Fumie a beautiful line!!! (Now we got to see if she willl switch to BLACK figure skates!!! YEAH! We REALLY got to "paint it BLACK!!!" ALL of it!!!) :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

There IS a rule about wearing unitard (what Debbie Thomas was wearing) though.

[Carleenp]

:roll: Gee I wonder why a lady would be more comfortable in pants? Could it be because she can't get off her tush to be bothered to look more presentable? I think so!

I think pants often look very nice and at times can look beter than a dress. It all depends on how things are put together.

[icenut84]

:roll: Gee I wonder why a lady would be more comfortable in pants? Could it be because she can't get off her tush to be bothered to look more presentable? I think so!

I don't think it's got anything to do with not being bothered to look presentable. For some people, probably especially older women, they would find it very uncomfortable to wear a skating dress, especially if they're required to do things like spirals. For some too, a skating dress might not flatter them and if they don't feel so good or comfortable, they won't perform as well. I personally don't see why the rules can't be relaxed a bit - several skaters have shown that unitards or trousers can look great, and can even fit the music/theme better than a dress.

Examples:

Sarah Hughes (http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/CFW/details.aspx?iid=1526596&print=true)

Fumie Suguri (http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/CFW/details.aspx?iid=3132698&print=true)

Irina Slutskaya (http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/CFW/details.aspx?iid=1526626&print=true)

Irina Slutskaya again (http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/CFW/details.aspx?iid=628861&print=true)

Katarina Witt (http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/CFW/details.aspx?iid=1225070&print=true)

For all of those, I think the costumes really worked and didn't detract from the presentation one bit - in fact they added. And I for one would much prefer the option of wearing trousers or a unitard if I was doing moves like this:

Irina again (http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/CFW/details.aspx?iid=627906&print=true)

(And that's nothing to do with laziness.)

[quarkiki2]

:roll: Gee I wonder why a lady would be more comfortable in pants? Could it be because she can't get off her tush to be bothered to look more presentable? I think so!

I guess the elite ladies who have worn pants for exhibitions couldn't get off their tushes to look more presentable, right?

I think that if pants fit the tone of your program, you should be able to wear them. I think that women should be allowed that costuming option, just as men should be allowed to wear a skirt if it fits their program (Braveheart anyone?).

If you don't want to wear pants, don't. But if I were doing a program where I was a spy or a catburglar or something, I think I'd look like a dork in a skirt, regardless of the shape of my bum.

[Mrs Redboots]

:roll: Gee I wonder why a lady would be more comfortable in pants? Could it be because she can't get off her tush to be bothered to look more presentable? I think so!Scarcely. Many adults are extraordinarily self-conscious, and feel that in a skirt that is a good foot shorter than they would dream of wearing in the street, they are a figure of fun - even though they actually look extremely nice.

Having said that, when they can finally be persuaded out of trousers and into a skirt, especially a dance skirt, many women discover that they "feel" more like skaters, and their skating improves dramatically to match. This happened to two members of our dance club - we have a (not strictly enforced) dress code that women tend to wear skirts, and so these beginner dancers bought one each. They both felt very self-conscious the first time they wore them, but now prefer them!

I personally would prefer not to relax that particular rule, but I can sympathise with those who would like to.

[skatepixie]

This just another case of the adults getting more than standard track skaters. I mean, whats wrong with a skirt? If it really bothers someone, maybe they shouldnt skate. Personally, I dont think it really looks like its "right" for competition, and I debate how well it looks in practice. Lets value tradition and class a little more.

[TashaKat]

This just another case of the adults getting more than standard track skaters. I mean, whats wrong with a skirt? If it really bothers someone, maybe they shouldnt skate. Personally, I dont think it really looks like its "right" for competition, and I debate how well it looks in practice. Lets value tradition and class a little more.

Getting more than standard track skaters? It's hardly a huge concession, doesn't cost anything and if it encourages more people into the sport what's the problem? I can't believe the animosity being shown over this :cry: I completely disagree with your assertion that "If it really bothers someone, maybe they shouldnt skate", that is so narrow minded. As somebody else pointed out that many "us" adults are extraordinarily self-conscious, we know that we're not as slim and firm as we used to be and if skating in pants gets us out there what's the problem?

Many of our 'kid' skaters don't wear skirts for practise, I don't think that they look any the less classy. Rather a simple and elegant top and pants than a frou frou, illusion fabric fest!

I perhaps should add at this juncture that I prefer to wear a skirt/dress but I'm not about to put down those that do.

:evil:

[Lmarletto]

This just another case of the adults getting more than standard track skaters. I mean, whats wrong with a skirt? If it really bothers someone, maybe they shouldnt skate. Personally, I dont think it really looks like its "right" for competition, and I debate how well it looks in practice. Lets value tradition and class a little more.

I can't say I have strong feelings about this either way since I have no plans to test or compete. I find the whole class, taste, appearance argument to be pretty humorous though because elite skaters demontrate pretty regularly that you don't need pants to have a totally tasteless costume.

Anyway, isn't the ISU also going to be considering eliminating the skirt rule? I could have sworn I read that somewhere...

[Canskater]

Hi all:

I don't personally have any trouble with the existing rule, nor with any revision to allow pants. However, as someone who makes/designs skating dresses, I can definitely say that most commercially (mass) produced skating dresses are not designed for a typical adult figure. Among other things, skirts are usually too short, briefs are too brief and the rise is too short, and there is little accommodation for a more generous bust. Most adult women, particularly those of us who have had children, have a bit of a "pot", which also doesn't look good in the typical skating dress. Personally, I can see why a great many adult women complain or outright refuse to wear a dress other than for testing.

Even if one goes the route of buying a pattern and making one's own dress, for the most part you will find that the full body girth is too short for most adult figures, where one has to accommodate for bust, pot and perhaps a generous tush to boot. So, unless you are skilled at modifying patters (or willing to sacrifice fabric and learn by trial and error), you still are not going to get a flattering dress.

The designer's of dresses for elite adults a) charge a large sum of money b) have clients with less mature figures. Producers of mass-market skating dresses design for the masses, which is predominantly young girls.

Hopefully as the marketplace becomes more aware of the buying power of the typical adult skater, there will be more flattering product from which to choose.

Just my .02

-- sheilagh

[jenlyon60]

Thank you... from one of the middle-aged (yes I finally admitted it....) women with big boobs who skate. Even if I were as thin as I probably should be, I would

a. Have big boobs
b. Have generous curves (both my sister and I tend to be members of the "tiny waist/big hips" group... stock skating dresses aren't designed for that body...at least not the ones I've found
c. Have a tummy

Most stock skating dresses don't work well for any woman with a cup size (American measurements here) larger than a "B". Next, most stock skating dresses don't have the skirt seam line falling at a location that is flattering for a woman with a bit of a tummy. Finally, the skirts of most stock skating dresses are not flattering, cut-wise/fullness-wise, to women with a bit of a tummy.

And don't tell me to go find another form of exercise.

Yes, for practice, those of us who are "well-endowed" could wear a jogbra, but....not all of us want to have a uniboob by wearing a heavy-compression exercise bra.


Hi all:

I don't personally have any trouble with the existing rule, nor with any revision to allow pants. However, as someone who makes/designs skating dresses, I can definitely say that most commercially (mass) produced skating dresses are not designed for a typical adult figure. Among other things, skirts are usually too short, briefs are too brief and the rise is too short, and there is little accommodation for a more generous bust. Most adult women, particularly those of us who have had children, have a bit of a "pot", which also doesn't look good in the typical skating dress. Personally, I can see why a great many adult women complain or outright refuse to wear a dress other than for testing.


-- sheilagh

[icenut84]

I mean, whats wrong with a skirt? If it really bothers someone, maybe they shouldnt skate. Personally, I dont think it really looks like its "right" for competition, and I debate how well it looks in practice. Lets value tradition and class a little more.

Maybe they shouldn't skate? I completely disagree with that statement. Why should anybody be told that they either have to wear a short skirt in front of lots of people, which may be unflattering, very uncomfortable, and fly up, or they should quit the sport they love altogether? Ridiculous, IMO. Skating is not dependent on a skirt. Like in the pictures I posted (not to mention costumes like Debi Thomas's SP in 88 and Natalia Mishkutenok's LPs in 92 and 94), several elite skaters have competed in a unitard or trousers, and in every single one, their costume fit the programme and the music and the theme, probably a lot better than a skirt would have, and didn't negatively affect their skating in any way. Some of you personally may not really like the appearance of costumes with trousers, but that's no reason to assume that anyone who wants the choice is either lazy, presentation-free, or doesn't value tradition or class.

What is wrong with an elegant costume like this? (http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/CFW/details.aspx?iid=442539&print=true)

Especially when you compare it to some of the dresses that are allowed, such as this... (http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/CFW/details.aspx?iid=228017&print=true)

[Mrs Redboots]

Yes, for practice, those of us who are "well-endowed" could wear a jogbra, but....not all of us want to have a uniboob by wearing a heavy-compression exercise bra.Plus I find most exercise bras simply aren't supportive enough - you should see me doing bunny hops in the changing rooms when trying on new bras..... :oops:

[twokidsskatemom]

gee didnt we just do this topic about adults and weight already :roll:

I would much rather have my kids watch skating for skating, and not to see a boob sticking out.more elegent for someone to wear something that fits than something that is meant for a teen ager.

[jenlyon60]

Plus I find most exercise bras simply aren't supportive enough - you should see me doing bunny hops in the changing rooms when trying on new bras..... :oops:

Here is a link to one of the exercise bras that Title 9 Sports carries. Serious compression...

The Last Resort Bra (http://www.title9sports.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=87&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=24&iProductID=87)

I did find a nice medium support exercise bra by Moving Comfort...

Moving Comfort Mesh Bra (http://www.title9sports.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=61&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=25&iProductID=61)

Doesn't work for high bounce/impact activities, but is definitely more comfortable for daily activities than a lot of others I've tried (I recently discovered I'm apparently allergic to whatever some of the bra manufacturers use for making underwires... but this one appears to be on the "safe" list.)

[jenlyon60]

Yep... and it's already working on being almost as polarizing.

Personally, I normally wear loose leggings to skate in, since I'm usually in a mad dash from the rink to work after I get done. And it's a lot nicer to walk into my office building (which offers a better place to change than the rink) in fleece pants than a skating skirt.

gee didnt we just do this topic about adults and weight already :roll:

I would much rather have my kids watch skating for skating, and not to see a boob sticking out.more elegent for someone to wear something that fits than something that is meant for a teen ager.

[TashaKat]

What is wrong with an elegant costume like this? (http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/CFW/details.aspx?iid=442539&print=true)

Especially when you compare it to some of the dresses that are allowed, such as this... (http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/CFW/details.aspx?iid=228017&print=true)

Well said :D ..... and thanks for the first photo, I'd forgotten how hot Gwendal is ..... sigh ..... oh to practise 'that' lift with him ...........

[vesperholly]

This just another case of the adults getting more than standard track skaters. I mean, whats wrong with a skirt? If it really bothers someone, maybe they shouldnt skate. Personally, I dont think it really looks like its "right" for competition, and I debate how well it looks in practice. Lets value tradition and class a little more.

:roll: x 1000 Who cares what it looks like? It's about the choice. Mullet hairstyles look bad, but people are allowed to choose them.

I personally prefer dresses/skirts. Although I am overweight, I have a petite frame and I like how dresses look on me. Plus I don't have to worry about tucking a shirt into pants which IMHO is really unflattering.

I didn't used to like dresses so much, in fact all through high school I wore colored stirrup tights and a matching skirt. This look was really popular back then - hot pink stirrup tights with a swatch of flowered material on one shin, then matching double-layered skirt (bottom flowers, top solid pink) and solid-colored turtleneck. Along with hauling around your patch scribe... ;) Now nude tights and a solid colored dress are more in fashion.

However... I have had days where I want to burn all the dresses I own and wear nothing but pants, pants, pants. I could completely understand the upset if one were of that mindset all the time, but were forced into wearing dresses for tests or competitions. It would upset and frustrate me too.

Like I used to say to my mother who forced me into dresses to go to church, why does God care if I have material between my legs or not? :lol: With so many more revealing dresses, why do pants matter so much? I think most skaters would choose dresses anyways.

[dbny]

Here is a link to one of the exercise bras that Title 9 Sports carries. Serious compression...

The Last Resort Bra (http://www.title9sports.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=87&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=24&iProductID=87)

...
Doesn't work for high bounce/impact activities, but is definitely more comfortable for daily activities than a lot of others I've tried (I recently discovered I'm apparently allergic to whatever some of the bra manufacturers use for making underwires... but this one appears to be on the "safe" list.)

8O At last, a reason to be happy that I'm flat chested! Bounce? What's that?

[slusher]

The rule change is about competition costume. What people wear in practice isn't the same thing.

I recently tested and took the effort to get a dress and tights although I was reassured that I could wear pants if I wanted. I wear fleece (actually horribly expensive polarfleece) pants normally and some sort of t-shirt when practicing.

I got tremendous feedback when testing in a dress. 1) I looked liked I was a skater, 2) the judge appreciated the effort and felt she could see my lines better, and 3) myself, who felt that I was actually "dancing" because I had a dress on.

They're all valid reasons to wear a dress but a rulebook shouldn't dictate costuming so much. If wearing a dress is stopping some beginner adult from testing, then the rule should be changed, and it looks like it. I still think that if effort is put into what a skater looks like, whether it is the effort of wearing performance quality costume pants or dress, then that should be recognized by the judge. Skaters who feel they can wear their practice pants - and I saw this at a elite competition just recently and was horrified - should be marked accordingly.

[batikat]

OK first an admission - I usually practice in trousers (not 'pants' - that's underwear!! :lol: ) and in my case it probably is laziness :oops: - I hate having to change at the rink and no way will I wear a skating dress outside the confines of the rink. I do actually prefer skating in a skirt/dress though and to all those ladies who have never tried it - you really dont' know what you are missing until you try spinning in a lovely flowy skirt. It really is the best feeling!!! Always reminds of when I was kid and would twirl in my skirts! A few of us had gorgeous knee length circular chiffon skirts for a panto number and took every opportunity to spin in them - fantastic!!!

I am happy to wear a skirt or dress for competitions and testing though, as for me it helps me to step up a gear and start to act and feel like a 'real' skater!
Even if you can't find a skating dress that flatters most ladies could find a nice leotard that fits well and a flowy wrapover skirt and most ladies I've seen usually look better in skirts on the ice than in trousers, no matter what size or shape they are.

I would be sad to see the end of the skating dress/skirt tradition for competitions (even though I think trousers could be allowed for testing), though some outfits at Worlds were really pushing the limits - especially in Free Dance. Personally I didn't think those couples where the girls wore trouser type outfits (and there were a few) looked as nice but that's personal opinion. Mind there are those who would argue that Free dance (and even OD's) can get perilously close to being more 'artistics' than dances anyway.

I dont' really see a problem with upholding a traditional standard of dress for competitions. Many sports have some dress requirements, e.g. Gymnastics, diving, Judo (and those outfits are not the most flattering) - maybe if you do the sport just for fun then who cares what you wear (though you can't really swim in trousers and I doubt they'd let you in the Judo hall without the right clothes) but if you are competing then you are at least to some degree serious about your sport and would therefore expect to conform to that sports dress codes wouldn't you?

[Isk8NYC]

I believe this relaxation of the dress code will still allow you to wear a skirt, if you so choose. It will be up to the skater. The skirts look very lovely on a strong, graceful skater in good physical condition. However, not every skater fits that bill. A friend of mine related this question to swimwear at the beach. Not everyone should wear a skimpy speedo, or as he put it, a "marble bag."8O

I sincerely doubt that the USFSA is expecting Senior Ladies' competitors to rise from the Adult skating ranks. For many adult women skaters, the skirts are an obstacle. The USFSA is trying to eliminate the barriers to participation and thereby increase their ranks. Listening and responding to issues like this is simply good customer service.

Then again, I believe there are some adult men skaters who would welcome the chance to WEAR a skirt! :P That may scare the USFSA off this topic!

[montanarose]

I am happy to wear a skirt or dress for competitions and testing though, as for me it helps me to step up a gear and start to act and feel like a 'real' skater!

I don't really see a problem with upholding a traditional standard of dress for competitions. Many sports have some dress requirements . . . if you are competing then you are at least to some degree serious about your sport and would therefore expect to conform to that sports dress codes wouldn't you?

My feelings exactly . . . I am by no means an accomplished skater (pre-Bronze to Bronze-on-my-best-days adult level) and I had resisted wearing skating dresses until I started taking private lessons with a coach who teaches at a "serious" figure skating rink. Because the (unwritten) dress code there is skating dresses or skirts, wearing my old fleece zip-up pants or black pants with a sweat shirt made me stand out when what I really wanted was to NOT draw attention to myself :oops:

But I discovered, much to my surprise, that skating in a dress and OTB tights was somehow both practical and liberating: no more worry about catching a toepick on a flared pant leg or drooping skate laces, for example (trust me, I've done both of these). I was more comfortable than I had expected to be and I soon stopped agonizing about what I looked like to others and instead reveled in how free I felt. And in my own case, when I dress like a (traditional) skater I think I skate "up" to my own image of what a skater looks like.

And (back to your point, batikat) I realized that when I play tennis, I wear "whites," if not a skirt then at least proper white shorts; when I golf I wear Bermuda shorts and an appropriate collared polo-type shirt -- an item of dress in which I would otherwise never be caught dead -- and in neither case do I feel inordinately constrained by the dress code. The old adage that "form follows function" is, at least to some extent, true for many sports.

Recently I started skating occasionally at a new rink where none of the adult women skaters -- most of whom are beginners -- wear skating dresses (at least not yet). For a while I went back to my fleece zip-up pants and black leggings because I didn't want to stand out or draw attention to myself. Dadgum it, I found that I was actually LESS comfortable than in my skating dresses. So now I cheerfully wear what I want . . . as should we all, whatever that might be. Chacun a son gout!

[SDFanatic]

I would be sad to see the end of the skating dress/skirt tradition for competitions (even though I think trousers could be allowed for testing)

The clothing rules of the requirement to wear a skirt only apply to competitions, if a person chooses to wear pants, leggings, or a skirt for testing, they can do so. Now I do know of some referee's that have told skaters in pants that they better be in skirt next time, or not even let skaters test at all if they have pants on as it's not traditional. I have talked to the USFSA about this, and there is no problem if someone wishes to test in pants if they so wish.

As a further point, one can also compete in pants if they so wish, however, they will be receive the mandatory .1 point deduction for not conforming to the clothing rules.

So why do most females test in skirts? Because that’s how it's always been done, and that’s just how it is.

I heard of someone who was not allowed to take the ice because she was wearing red ruby boot covers as her music was from the Wizard of OZ. The referee refused to let her on the ice until she took her boot covers off. Now tell me, what do boot covers have to do with skating? Even given that it fit her theme, she was not allowed to wear them. Also take into account of an African American skater, she wore a dark colored outfit and black tights, but still white boots. It didn't look right, but to put black covers over her boots would have been a bad idea as white boots are a traditional female boot color (well, not actually, all skate boots used to be black at one time) Judges want to see white boots, trust me, I asked and thats what they want, no OTB or colored covers for them, you want points? Best do what they say.

I dont' really see a problem with upholding a traditional standard of dress for competitions. Many sports have some dress requirements, e.g. Gymnastics, diving, Judo (and those outfits are not the most flattering) - maybe if you do the sport just for fun then who cares what you wear (though you can't really swim in trousers and I doubt they'd let you in the Judo hall without the right clothes) but if you are competing then you are at least to some degree serious about your sport and would therefore expect to conform to that sports dress codes wouldn't you?

Traditional, sure, but have you also noticed that most of the other sports have modernized and are not restrcting women to only being able to wear a skirt? Heck, guys can't even wear traditional clothing for some of the sports due to all the labeling and sillyness.

I said it once a while back, and I'll say it again, shouldn't skating be about skating? (course I really need to expand on that remark, but thats a whole different discusion)

Steven

[SDFanatic]

The rule change is about competition costume. What people wear in practice isn't the same thing.

I recently tested and took the effort to get a dress and tights although I was reassured that I could wear pants if I wanted. I wear fleece (actually horribly expensive polarfleece) pants normally and some sort of t-shirt when practicing.

I got tremendous feedback when testing in a dress. 1) I looked liked I was a skater, 2) the judge appreciated the effort and felt she could see my lines better, and 3) myself, who felt that I was actually "dancing" because I had a dress on.

They're all valid reasons to wear a dress but a rulebook shouldn't dictate costuming so much. If wearing a dress is stopping some beginner adult from testing, then the rule should be changed, and it looks like it. I still think that if effort is put into what a skater looks like, whether it is the effort of wearing performance quality costume pants or dress, then that should be recognized by the judge. Skaters who feel they can wear their practice pants - and I saw this at a elite competition just recently and was horrified - should be marked accordingly.

I know of two adult skaters who absolutely dred having to wear a dress, one of which told me she will never compete or even test for that matter because of the tradition of having to wear a skirt.

I don't think the clothing rules should dictate what a skater is specifically allowed and not allowed to wear. It's bad enough having to appease the judges when one competes as it is, but I think some laxity on the guidelines will help in that matter.

I think skating is an individualistic sport, as such, it should be up to the skater in how they wish to present themselves, not some rules saying they have to adhere to something that doesn't fit into what they are trying to do.

Steven

[skateflo]

While I can see both sides of the issue, I side with continuing the tradition of women looking like ladies. There is a psychological component to it as well as the appearance on the ice. I've watched over the years practice attire (even in the under 20 crowd) go from skirts/dresses to pants and haulter tops, from neat to sloppy, from nicely fitting to in-you-face emphasis on budding bodies. Now when a skater appears in a skirt/dress, she generates admiring looks of approval and envy - 'looks like a real skater!' - even when her technique is still a work in progress.

It took me years to give up the baggy, over the hip fleece top and pants. I was very self-conscious in a skirt. But the outside change also brought an inside change and I felt like 'a real skater!' This new feeling also generated a new rush of working harder to improve my skills.

As for competitions it is still a Ladies event. Yes, a well done pant suit is accepted in the business world but I see them less and less in recent years, especially at important events. A competition (and test) is an important event. I would hate to see an eroding of ediquette in all the arts and sports where a 'uniform' is dumped for individual expression that blurrs the definition of the event.

I would feel uncomfortable with men competing in skirts/dresses in a Mens event. There is a time and a place for expressing your individuality, some may call it the rules of society and gender roles. Until the Ladies and Mens events are combined for competition, I feel the 'uniform' appropriate for the event should be maintained. If wearing attire traditionally assigned to Ladies and Men is too much for the participant, then you also have the choice of not competing/testing or finding another sport where you think anything goes, or another type of competition. As an individual, you always have choices.

I realize this is a changing world. But not all change is for the better. My vote is to keep skirts/dresses for adult Ladies in the testing and competing area.

[sk8pics]

Well put, skateflo.

As for me, I guess I am in favor of keeping the traditional rules of dress for competitions and testing, but it's really not that big a deal to me. Lately I've been really struggling to find a new dress for my new interpretive program; it's very difficult! I'll find something, but it will take a while. The suggestion someone had about a leotard and wrap skirt is a good one. I think it's important to consider what style of dress might look good. Not every style looks good on everyone, and some look good on no adults, lol! I also think that actually a well chosen skirt or dress has more coverage than, for example, the lycra leggings that I wear for practice. Once I got over the initial spirals in a dress, I was fine. In fact, I think I will wear a leotard and flowery wrap skirt tonight for practice and lessons! My coach is always very approving and complimentary when I do, which is nice, but he never nags me to wear a skirt in practice. In fact, I would say many skaters here wear leggings for practice, although of course you also see many dresses.

Pat

[Mrs Redboots]

I am happy to wear a skirt or dress for competitions and testing though, as for me it helps me to step up a gear and start to act and feel like a 'real' skater!
So what does skating in an over-sized penguin costume do to you???? (This is a bit mean, but last Bracknell, batikat and her friends did an extremely funny penguin sketch).

[batikat]

So what does skating in an over-sized penguin costume do to you???? (This is a bit mean, but last Bracknell, batikat and her friends did an extremely funny penguin sketch).

Actually I wasn't in that one - though I have been an ostrich (with nothing but a feather boa for a skirt) and a skate (the fish) with a lot of foam rubber and strange fabrics. This year we are doing something that requires a really nice dress - I am looking forward to it!!


Traditional, sure, but have you also noticed that most of the other sports have modernized and are not restrcting women to only being able to wear a skirt?

I think Wimbldon still holds on to the tradition of women wearing skirts for tennis. And it just looks so much nicer - nothing to do with their ability to play tennis but it looks good.


I said it once a while back, and I'll say it again, shouldn't skating be about skating? (course I really need to expand on that remark, but thats a whole different discusion.

Yes skating should be about skating. But - if someone competes then they have to be prepared to go out on to a rink on their own and have everyone watch them. If someone is that bothered by their appearance that they feel they need to wear trousers (which in most cases look worse than a skirt on those with less-than-traditionally-perfect figure types (like me) when you actually see people on the ice) then perhaps a sport where everyone is looking at you all the time in a competition is not the most suitable for them to compete in. Having done it I would say that what I look like is the least of my worries when I compete. If it's more a question of simply wanting to exercise 'choice' then there are plenty of other sports where choice in your attire is perfectly acceptable, (can't think of any right now though). Even then at the competitive level many sports do have fairly rigid dress codes. Netball - womens hockey - don't most competitive teams wear skirts?
On the other hand there's women's volleyball which I would not take up competitively even if I was any good as I would not be seen dead in those skimpy outfits they have to wear!!

If skating is about skating then put on the appropriate clothes for a competition and get on with it!

From all your posts on the forum Steven it appears that your interest in skating more or less started with the clothing! No problem with that and I'm all for individuality when it is appropriate and if you want to wear skirts when you skate in practice that's your choice but a competition is a formal occasion and the dress code for such occassions is for men to wear trousers and women to wear skirts. For women wearing a skirt for competition is perfectly practical for skating and even adds to the performance in the way it moves. For men, trousers are the accepted form of dress and a man wearing a skirt seems to me to be more about making a statement and NOT about the skating.

If a lady goes to a competition and wears a dress and goes out on the ice everyone will watch her skating. If a lady goes out on the ice in trousers it immediately screams 'look at me' - and for non-elite skaters people are more likely to wonder what that person is trying to hide - It stops being about the skating and becomes about the clothes.

As an example some kids did a show number and the girls were asked to wear cropped tops and a skirt which fitted the theme. One girl feeling that she would be embarrassed in a crop top as she is not as slender as some (not fat though) refused and wore her top T-shirt length. The result - instead of blending in where no-one would have even noticed her figure - eveyone noticed she had on a T-shirt and thought she must be trying to hide something: ergo they all thought she must be fat!

The nice thing about adult skating is that we are all supportive and we are not sitting around waiting to make snide remarks about how someone looks - though we sure do all admire a lovely dress!

It will be interesting to see how the proposed amendment is voted on. When I started skating 5 years ago I would probably have supported the amendment to allow trousers for many of the same reasons as people have put forward on this thread. Having tested and competed and tried skating in a dress, and watched others do so, I am against it. If the requirement to wear a skirt was relaxed I would also be sad because then I would not have an excuse to wear these sparkly/ floaty dresses. :cry: Now I can justify them because we have to have them for competitions. :D

[NickiT]

So what does skating in an over-sized penguin costume do to you???? (This is a bit mean, but last Bracknell, batikat and her friends did an extremely funny penguin sketch).


Sticks hand right up and confesses to skating in an oversized penguin outfit! Certainly not as easy as skating in a dress I have to say, but we had such a laugh. Seriously though, I'm all for wearing a dress or skirt. I much prefer it despite not being the slimmest skater in the world. I definitely skate better and feel a whole lot more comfortable and I agree that those who have never skated in a skirt of dress don't know what they are missing.

Nicki

Nicki

[jenlyon60]

I've spent a small fortune on test/competition dresses (custom because of the boobs and figure)... I really don't mind wearing the dresses for test/competition.

I wear pants for practice for convenience, because I tend to cut my schedule very close.

But... each to his/her own. If a woman has nice stretch trousers, and they want to wear them for test/competition (for whatever reason), why not? If a guy wants to wear a dress, why not.

As long as all essential parts are appropriately covered (and heck, we don't see that in a lot of world competitor competition outfits, especially ice dance), BFD.

[TashaKat]

The nice thing about adult skating is that we are all supportive and we are not sitting around waiting to make snide remarks about how someone looks - though we sure do all admire a lovely dress!

sigh ..... if only ..... adults can sometimes be as bad as the kids!

[slusher]

I had another thought in favor of pants. This morning when I looked in the mirror and saw my bare legs I also saw my varicose veins (thanks, kids). That's a good reason to want to wear pants.

Although, I did then put on my Mondor extra thick tights that I wear and nothing shows through, so bad veins are not a total reason to wear pants. I think the tights hold my flabby legs tighter anyway.

And then I took off my tights and went to the rink to practice in my stinky black pants. :)

[kisscid]

This is a tough call for me. I have not started to test or compete yet. But one of the things I was looking forward to was getting really pretty skating dresses. But then the thought of my plump body in a little dress is scary! I think If the pants outfit fits the theme of the music (like the pictures that were shown in one of the above posts) then I think It should be allowed. Give us a choice of what to wear. Then we can decided for ourselves wether to go traditional or modern. It's the skating that should matter the most anyway. I have always wanted to skate to "Cats" and a leggings suit would work better for that than a skirt (IMO). It would be nice to have the choice if it enhances the performance.
Cid

[SDFanatic]

I think Wimbldon still holds on to the tradition of women wearing skirts for tennis. And it just looks so much nicer - nothing to do with their ability to play tennis but it looks good.

Yes skating should be about skating. But - if someone competes then they have to be prepared to go out on to a rink on their own and have everyone watch them. If someone is that bothered by their appearance that they feel they need to wear trousers (which in most cases look worse than a skirt on those with less-than-traditionally-perfect figure types (like me) when you actually see people on the ice) then perhaps a sport where everyone is looking at you all the time in a competition is not the most suitable for them to compete in. Having done it I would say that what I look like is the least of my worries when I compete. If it's more a question of simply wanting to exercise 'choice' then there are plenty of other sports where choice in your attire is perfectly acceptable, (can't think of any right now though). Even then at the competitive level many sports do have fairly rigid dress codes. Netball - womens hockey - don't most competitive teams wear skirts?

On the other hand there's women's volleyball which I would not take up competitively even if I was any good as I would not be seen dead in those skimpy outfits they have to wear!!

I don’t think the rules say they have to wear such things, but then again, how are you going to get some people to watch it?


If skating is about skating then put on the appropriate clothes for a competition and get on with it!

From all your posts on the forum Steven it appears that your interest in skating more or less started with the clothing! No problem with that and I'm all for individuality when it is appropriate and if you want to wear skirts when you skate in practice that's your choice but a competition is a formal occasion and the dress code for such occassions is for men to wear trousers and women to wear skirts. For women wearing a skirt for competition is perfectly practical for skating and even adds to the performance in the way it moves. For men, trousers are the accepted form of dress and a man wearing a skirt seems to me to be more about making a statement and NOT about the skating.

If a lady goes to a competition and wears a dress and goes out on the ice everyone will watch her skating. If a lady goes out on the ice in trousers it immediately screams 'look at me' - and for non-elite skaters people are more likely to wonder what that person is trying to hide - It stops being about the skating and becomes about the clothes.

Oh yes, I like the clothing, the choices and what not, but I do like skating too for what it is, it’s a different kind of energy and such, nothing at all like any other sport out there. I disagree that you think a lady wearing pants or that a man wearing a skirt would be making a statement, after all, are not most female costumes making a statement already? In fact, many women play traditional male roles and throw a skirt on it and it’s deemed acceptable. Yet many men compete in just plain black pants and white shorts, nothing fancy or anything, in fact, the rules strictly prohibit men from showing their bare arms or chest. Yet a women’s outfit usually emphasizes the chest as the skirt does for the legs.

I Still agree however, skating should be about the skating, and not the clothes, but do you know how many people who see my legs want them? Yet I’m prohibited from "showing" them off, and why? Why is seeing a mans chest, arm, or leg such an evil thing?


As an example some kids did a show number and the girls were asked to wear cropped tops and a skirt which fitted the theme. One girl feeling that she would be embarrassed in a crop top as she is not as slender as some (not fat though) refused and wore her top T-shirt length. The result - instead of blending in where no-one would have even noticed her figure - eveyone noticed she had on a T-shirt and thought she must be trying to hide something: ergo they all thought she must be fat!

The nice thing about adult skating is that we are all supportive and we are not sitting around waiting to make snide remarks about how someone looks - though we sure do all admire a lovely dress!

It will be interesting to see how the proposed amendment is voted on. When I started skating 5 years ago I would probably have supported the amendment to allow trousers for many of the same reasons as people have put forward on this thread. Having tested and competed and tried skating in a dress, and watched others do so, I am against it. If the requirement to wear a skirt was relaxed I would also be sad because then I would not have an excuse to wear these sparkly/ floaty dresses. :cry: Now I can justify them because we have to have them for competitions. :D

If it was relaxed, then why would it matter? It's not that the rules will turn 180 degrees and say that your only allowed to wear pants, it’s just that you have the option to do so if you wished. And I’ll tell you right now is that most female skaters will stay in skirts, but why deny the ability for those who would rather wear pants the choice to do so?

Now this is my opinion on skating and competition, I’m not alone in this however but this is how I think of it.

If skating was like most of the other sports out there, skaters would wear the same generic outfits regardless of their sex, they would skate to the same music and do the same moves to a set pattern. That in my opinion is the only way a true competition would be done as it focuses on the persons skating and not what their music is or what they are wearing. I’ve heard it many times from others as to judges who don’t like certain music, or certain colors, or wether it was long sleeved or short sleeved. Or thinking that the little extras that some people throw in were inappropriate. Set a standard that this is what everyone wears, and this is the music you are skating to and this is the pattern you will do it to, PERIOD! Now that in my opinion would be a true competition based on ability, and not all the extra fluff.

Now, for those who wish to express themselves, then you have something like artistic that they have now, where you can choose your own music, outfit, and sequence of steps you want to do. That of course is much more highly subjective to the wims of the judges at times then the actual skating.

Steven

[Michigansk8er]

While I don't have a problem with pants (I can actually see pants working well with my new music), I doubt I'll ever opt for them if it passes. The reason being the judges. Just as there are some that choose to ignore adult moves standards, there will surely be some that will score you down because they don't like it. I'd rather play it safe...............and I must admit, I'm a sucker for a pretty dress. A longer skirt can sometimes be a lot more flattering than stretchy pants.

Still, for those of you going to GC, give it my vote. It's obviously a bigger issue than we realize, for it to have gotten this far.

[batikat]

I Still agree however, skating should be about the skating, and not the clothes, but do you know how many people who see my legs want them? Yet I’m prohibited from "showing" them off, and why? Why is seeing a mans chest, arm, or leg such an evil thing?


I have no objection to seeing a mans chest, legs or whatever (within reason ) but I dont' necessarily want to be distracted by the sight during a skating competition - (Batikat swoons at the thought of Brian Joubert in skimpy shorts and a singlet)
:lol:



If skating was like most of the other sports out there, skaters would wear the same generic outfits regardless of their sex, they would skate to the same music and do the same moves to a set pattern. That in my opinion is the only way a true competition would be done as it focuses on the persons skating and not what their music is or what they are wearing. I’ve heard it many times from others as to judges who don’t like certain music, or certain colors, or wether it was long sleeved or short sleeved. Or thinking that the little extras that some people throw in were inappropriate. Set a standard that this is what everyone wears, and this is the music you are skating to and this is the pattern you will do it to, PERIOD! Now that in my opinion would be a true competition based on ability, and not all the extra fluff.


But how excrutiatingly boring this would be for the judges and the participants
and the spectators. If you've ever been to a compulsory dance comp which is exactly like you describe (except for the costumes), you would have endless sympathy for the poor judges who have to sit through the exact same thing over and over again.
In my opinion it would absolutely kill the sport stone dead! And certainly you'd never get televison coverage again. Talk about taking the personality and expression out of a sport - what happened to individuality and expressing yourself?????

I watched the compulsory dance at Worlds - these were top class skating couples doing an extremely complex and beautiful dance with a set pattern, set music. By the time the 25th couple are taking to the ice you never want to hear the music again I can assure you. The costumes were one of the the few spots of relief - that and the fun I had taking photos with my digital camera but it was the most sparsely attended of all the events.

Can you imagine the horror of starting skating and being told - you are in this level - you will learn this, this and this and perform them in this order to this music at this level. Maybe you are not good at one of those things but there is something from another level you can do - but you are not allowed at all. As for the music side - a few years back in the UK all skaters took their first National level test by performing a sequence of moves to music - the music was a waltz. There were I believe 6 versions, of which most rinks seemed to play only 3. You heard that music over and over until you were ready to kill the next poor kid who put it on.

Skating is never going to be a purely objective sport - like diving and some other sports there is a subjective element to it (Doesn't Judo have 'style' points ? - or is that fencing? - that certainly has a rigid dress code!)
If you are not prepared to deal with the problems of a subjective sport - and gee what would we all talk about if we didnt' have the vagaries of judging to exercise our brains - then skating is not a suitable sport to get involved in.


Now, for those who wish to express themselves, then you have something like artistic that they have now, where you can choose your own music, outfit, and sequence of steps you want to do. That of course is much more highly subjective to the wims of the judges at times then the actual skating.

Steven

And indeed if you want to compete and wear trousers - or a dress if you are a man, then you can compete in artistic now. So - something for everyone!

[Mrs Redboots]

Sticks hand right up and confesses to skating in an oversized penguin outfit! Certainly not as easy as skating in a dress I have to say, but we had such a laugh. Seriously though, I'm all for wearing a dress or skirt. I much prefer it despite not being the slimmest skater in the world. I definitely skate better and feel a whole lot more comfortable and I agree that those who have never skated in a skirt of dress don't know what they are missing.
Ah, it was you - I knew it was one of you two, and was not at all sure it wasn't both (hard to tell, when you are dressed up as penguins!). I do remember you - or one of you, anyway, it might have been another of your team - swearing that never again would she skate in an outfit that required quite so much padding!

I've landed myself with another 30-minute make-up job for this year's artistic. Sigh.... really, I am in the camp who prefers dresses and skirts - I tend to practice in a skirt if it's not too cold, although I very rarely wear one off-ice.

[NickiT]

Ah, it was you - I knew it was one of you two, and was not at all sure it wasn't both (hard to tell, when you are dressed up as penguins!). I do remember you - or one of you, anyway, it might have been another of your team - swearing that never again would she skate in an outfit that required quite so much padding!

I've landed myself with another 30-minute make-up job for this year's artistic. Sigh.... really, I am in the camp who prefers dresses and skirts - I tend to practice in a skirt if it's not too cold, although I very rarely wear one off-ice.

Yep we did decide that the costumes, while fun, were a bit of a nightmare as far as putting on and taking off and we didn't want to land ourselves with more difficult costumes this year. Anyway I'm doing this year's artistic with Batikat. Did make me feel a bit guilty as I was in demand this year since both groups wanted me in their number. The thought of dressing up in pretty dresses this year is very pleasing I have to say!

Nicki

[Mrs Redboots]

I shall look forward to seeing you in it - in fact, we may be competing against you, even! Or are we in Artistic Pairs, the new cup? I haven't got that far, yet....

[SDFanatic]

I have no objection to seeing a mans chest, legs or whatever (within reason ) but I dont' necessarily want to be distracted by the sight during a skating competition - (Batikat swoons at the thought of Brian Joubert in skimpy shorts and a singlet)
:lol:
Oh my, what a catch 22 is it not?


But how excrutiatingly boring this would be for the judges and the participants
and the spectators. If you've ever been to a compulsory dance comp which is exactly like you describe (except for the costumes), you would have endless sympathy for the poor judges who have to sit through the exact same thing over and over again.
In my opinion it would absolutely kill the sport stone dead! And certainly you'd never get televison coverage again. Talk about taking the personality and expression out of a sport - what happened to individuality and expressing yourself?????

As I said, if it was a true competition, thats exactly how it should be run, and yes, it would be boring as heck! But perhaps make such a thing as another form of competition, almost like an elite status. Still have the other forms of competition and such, just more relaxed rules.

So whats so bad if one could be allowed more laxity in the dress code that allows women to wear pants?

I really can't think of another sport where one can express their individulaty.


I watched the compulsory dance at Worlds - these were top class skating couples doing an extremely complex and beautiful dance with a set pattern, set music. By the time the 25th couple are taking to the ice you never want to hear the music again I can assure you. The costumes were one of the the few spots of relief - that and the fun I had taking photos with my digital camera but it was the most sparsely attended of all the events.

Can you imagine the horror of starting skating and being told - you are in this level - you will learn this, this and this and perform them in this order to this music at this level. Maybe you are not good at one of those things but there is something from another level you can do - but you are not allowed at all. As for the music side - a few years back in the UK all skaters took their first National level test by performing a sequence of moves to music - the music was a waltz. There were I believe 6 versions, of which most rinks seemed to play only 3. You heard that music over and over until you were ready to kill the next poor kid who put it on.

Skating is never going to be a purely objective sport - like diving and some other sports there is a subjective element to it (Doesn't Judo have 'style' points ? - or is that fencing? - that certainly has a rigid dress code!)
If you are not prepared to deal with the problems of a subjective sport - and gee what would we all talk about if we didnt' have the vagaries of judging to exercise our brains - then skating is not a suitable sport to get involved in.

Oh I know, the bleachers just empty right out don't they?

I think it would be a great correlation to the way most sports are now if thats how it was. Some people are better at making 3 pointers, while others are better at slam dunks, and others at free throws. In skating however, it's not a team effort, it's just you competing against another individual, and you don't even compete at the same time.

I still don't understand why skating would not be a suitable sport to get involved in, what other sport is there that one can combine so many elements and portray it in such a manner?


And indeed if you want to compete and wear trousers - or a dress if you are a manor woman,then you can compete in artistic now. So - something for everyone!

Yes, very true, course adult competitions are not easy to come by, and artistic or interperative events even harder. On top of that, just try being a guy in which your the only competitor and you get cancelled.

Ahh, we could just beat this to death could we not?

Steven

[batikat]

As I said, if it was a true competition, thats exactly how it should be run, and yes, it would be boring as heck! But perhaps make such a thing as another form of competition, almost like an elite status. Still have the other forms of competition and such, just more relaxed rules.

So whats so bad if one could be allowed more laxity in the dress code that allows women to wear pants?

I really can't think of another sport where one can express their individulaty.


Now you've confused me- on the one hand you want to wear a dress and express individuality and on the other you are saying it is this very individuality which makes it an unfair sport so we should all be the same and do the same???!!! :??




Oh I know, the bleachers just empty right out don't they?

I think it would be a great correlation to the way most sports are now if thats how it was. Some people are better at making 3 pointers, while others are better at slam dunks, and others at free throws. In skating however, it's not a team effort, it's just you competing against another individual, and you don't even compete at the same time.


So if I am understanding you correctly, a sport like diving cannot have proper competitions because they don't all dive together doing the same dive (Just like skating, dives have varying degrees of difficulty - they don't all do the same) and there is a style element to the judging just like skating has now???

And you would like all skate comps to be stultifyingly boring to satisfy your ideal of what a 'fair' skating comp maybe, just so long as you can wear your dress and the ladies can wear pants - though of course to suit your 'all wear the same' ideal then I guess we should all be out there in head to toe unitards with hoods to make sure the colour of one's hair did not influence the judges!!!
:roll: :lol:

I guess the comp would also have to be more or less an elements only comp like most club 'spin spiral jumps' are so each prescribed element for each skater could be compared and there'd be little point doing this to music. Then I guess you'd add up the points for each person on each element to get your winner.

So having eliminated the music, the style, the individuality, the expressiveness, the musicality, the costume, you would have what you may feel is a fair competition but thanks all the same I'll take skating the way it is now. :D Strange how despite it being such an apparently 'unfair ' sport the best in the world at skating (according to the judges) (e.g.those competing at Worlds) are the best in the world at skating.


I still don't understand why skating would not be a suitable sport to get involved in, what other sport is there that one can combine so many elements and portray it in such a manner?



Steven

Only unsuitable if you don't believe a sport with a subjective element in the judging can still be a sport worth getting involved in. 8-)

[SDFanatic]

Now you've confused me- on the one hand you want to wear a dress and express individuality and on the other you are saying it is this very individuality which makes it an unfair sport so we should all be the same and do the same???!!! :??

Oh my, this is getting a bit ridicules isn't it? Many times I state that I’ve been fighting more for the right for women to wear pants, yet you keep saying I’m doing all this because I want to wear a skirt. Sure, it would be nice if I could wear a skirt, as I like the styles and such, but I continually strive to try and get equal acceptance of the clothing between the sexes, no matter what it was “traditionally”

And I’m only saying that if skating was like any other sport out there, then that’s exactly how it should be done, there would be no room for “opinions”

But that’s not what skating is about now is it? Skating still has the rules that say women must wear skirts and men must wear pants. Now how silly is it that a women plays a male character and doesn’t wear pants when she does it? And as I said, there are many ladies out there who would prefer not to wear a skirt, and because they have to, they don’t compete at all, now tell me why they should not compete over the simple matter of either wearing a skirt or wearing pants? I don’t care how traditional you want to get with it, it used to be traditional for women to wear floor length skirts with a large number of petticoats underneath, high collars and corsets. Now, do you want to dress that way on a hot summers day as that is what’s traditional? Heck, I can’t even skate to Scottish music wearing a kilt, sure, that’s what they wore, but sorry, rules say you have to wear pants, such baloney. Traditions would have you wearing black boots and a floor length skirt, and it would be unladylike for you to do any jumps or spins, only guys were allowed to do that. How’s that for traditional?

So if I am understanding you correctly, a sport like diving cannot have proper competitions because they don't all dive together doing the same dive (Just like skating, dives have varying degrees of difficulty - they don't all do the same) and there is a style element to the judging just like skating has now???

Diving, as well as gymnastics and some other sports are an individual sport, but their not diving to music, nor what their wearing has anything to do with portraying the non-existent music. Some sports do some routines to music and such, but the women are not restricted to only being allowed to wear skirts, even though it was traditional for them to only wear a skirt in the past.


And you would like all skate comps to be stultifyingly boring to satisfy your ideal of what a 'fair' skating comp maybe, just so long as you can wear your dress and the ladies can wear pants - though of course to suit your 'all wear the same' ideal then I guess we should all be out there in head to toe unitards with hoods to make sure the colour of one's hair did not influence the judges!!!
:roll: :lol:

I guess the comp would also have to be more or less an elements only comp like most club 'spin spiral jumps' are so each prescribed element for each skater could be compared and there'd be little point doing this to music. Then I guess you'd add up the points for each person on each element to get your winner.

So having eliminated the music, the style, the individuality, the expressiveness, the musicality, the costume, you would have what you may feel is a fair competition but thanks all the same I'll take skating the way it is now. :D Strange how despite it being such an apparently 'unfair ' sport the best in the world at skating (according to the judges) (e.g.those competing at Worlds) are the best in the world at skating.

I won’t disagree with you on what skating is, but I think it could be better, just as it’s better now then it used to be.


Only unsuitable if you don't believe a sport with a subjective element in the judging can still be a sport worth getting involved in. 8-)

Well, I enjoy skating for what it is, it lets me express myself, be it in pants or a skirt, my summer rink is implementing new rules that says boys will wear pants and girls will wear skirts. So my individuality is now being further restricted, does that make you happy?

Steven

[tidesong]

Well just a thought on this... ISI doesnt seem to have this kind of dress code for competitions, so there are the fair share of pants (and some skimpy costumes too lol) and skirts. So people tend to choose what to wear depending on the music which i think is not a bad idea. While ISI is not leading to worlds and olympics, the competitions I find are still respectable and having seen what people make with that rule being flexible, I think that its not such a bad thing to allow pants.

[batikat]

Oh my, this is getting a bit ridicules isn't it? Many times I state that I’ve been fighting more for the right for women to wear pants, yet you keep saying I’m doing all this because I want to wear a skirt. Sure, it would be nice if I could wear a skirt, as I like the styles and such, but I continually strive to try and get equal acceptance of the clothing between the sexes, no matter what it was “traditionally”

My comment was in the context of the apparent conflict between your wanting to be able to express individuality and your perception of what would make skating 'fair'. I did not say you are doing this 'only' because you want to wear a skirt but I assume that to be a factor in your interest in what here is a women's issue. I was illustrating what I understand your ideal skating comp to be -- I should have put '...want ladies to be able to wear trousers (if they want to) and men to be allowed to wear skirts (if they want to).......'


And I’m only saying that if skating was like any other sport out there, then that’s exactly how it should be done, there would be no room for “opinions”

But that’s not what skating is about now is it? Skating still has the rules that say women must wear skirts and men must wear pants. Now how silly is it that a women plays a male character and doesn’t wear pants when she does it? And as I said, there are many ladies out there who would prefer not to wear a skirt, and because they have to, they don’t compete at all, now tell me why they should not compete over the simple matter of either wearing a skirt or wearing pants? I don’t care how traditional you want to get with it, it used to be traditional for women to wear floor length skirts with a large number of petticoats underneath, high collars and corsets. Now, do you want to dress that way on a hot summers day as that is what’s traditional? Heck, I can’t even skate to Scottish music wearing a kilt, sure, that’s what they wore, but sorry, rules say you have to wear pants, such baloney. Traditions would have you wearing black boots and a floor length skirt, and it would be unladylike for you to do any jumps or spins, only guys were allowed to do that. How’s that for traditional?


There is a difference between changes due to modernisation and practicality that suit everyone, and changes that are not necessary for any practical reason but would suit some people (which may or may not be a small number). If it is democratically decided that the pants rule is instigated then so be it - and I shall probably end up wearing them if it becomes an international rule as I would have problems justifying the time and expense spent on getting a costume made for competitions when I have perfectly serviceable black pants I could wear. I just think it would be a shame that's all and I believe that the standard of dress we have come to expect at competitions would decline. I hope not.


Diving, as well as gymnastics and some other sports are an individual sport, but their not diving to music, nor what their wearing has anything to do with portraying the non-existent music. Some sports do some routines to music and such, but the women are not restricted to only being allowed to wear skirts, even though it was traditional for them to only wear a skirt in the past.


Many sports have strict dress codes. Some use music which should be expressed in the movements, rythym etc even if not always in costume.

Synchronised swimming - team and individual - music used - must wear swim suit!

Gymnastics - ladies floor exercises - must wear leotard - done to music
Men - wear trousers and singlets - they can't even wear shorts at the moment can they??

Snooker players - wear evening dress!!

So why not have dress rules for skating as long as they don't interfere with one's physical ability to skate.


I won’t disagree with you on what skating is, but I think it could be better, just as it’s better now then it used to be.



Their are always improvements that could be made sure but it will always have some element of subjectivity and is always likely to favour one type of skater over another - at the moment the best jumpers tend to win. From what I hear CoP may alter that.
I just don't believe that altering the costume rules to allow women to wear trousers is necessarily a change for the better.
The music, costume , expressiveness is what makes skating the best sport there is - you're right it's not like other sports - and thank goodness for that!

I guess for the most part we have to agree to disagree! :)


Well, I enjoy skating for what it is, it lets me express myself, be it in pants or a skirt, my summer rink is implementing new rules that says boys will wear pants and girls will wear skirts. So my individuality is now being further restricted, does that make you happy?

Steven

I am not after restricting your individuality, although I do not personally agree with the idea of men wearing skating dresses for skating. Sometimes one has to compromise on individuality when it affects other people. I am glad you enjoy your skating and I do hope when you compete you meet good judges who can reach fair decisions regardless of costume or whatever.

As for your rinks new rules - why not view it as a challenge for your creativity - and wear a skirt over the trousers? Black leggings are trousers that are not much different to tights. If you like the skirts then a skirted top can easily be worn over them. Poppers on the outside of the trouser waistband and the inside of the top will keep them together. You can use the same fabrics you already like and use, for the tops. In fact with the right pair of trousers and some of the higher waisted dresses you could wear the dress as is and have low rise trousers on over the bottom part. Cotton lycra yoga pants are good for this!

Good luck with your skating!

[SDFanatic]

I guess for the most part we have to agree to disagree! :)
Hehe, yes, as I say, to each his/her own.


There is a difference between changes due to modernisation and practicality that suit everyone, and changes that are not necessary for any practical reason but would suit some people (which may or may not be a small number). If it is democratically decided that the pants rule is instigated then so be it - and I shall probably end up wearing them if it becomes an international rule as I would have problems justifying the time and expense spent on getting a costume made for competitions when I have perfectly serviceable black pants I could wear. I just think it would be a shame that's all and I believe that the standard of dress we have come to expect at competitions would decline. I hope not.

I don't think it would, as I said, it would be nice if it was allowed, as the people who don't want to wear skirts, can now compete in pants if they so which, numbers would increase.


Many sports have strict dress codes. Some use music which should be expressed in the movements, rythym etc even if not always in costume.

Synchronised swimming - team and individual - music used - must wear swim suit!

Gymnastics - ladies floor exercises - must wear leotard - done to music
Men - wear trousers and singlets - they can't even wear shorts at the moment can they??

Snooker players - wear evening dress!!
Odd, I didn't think snooker players were required to wear dresses, as for the other sports, yes, there are strict rules of dress, as you must wear something. But none of those say that a lady must wear a skirt if she wants to participate in it.

Actually, I have seen men wear leotards for gymnastics, which would be perfectly acceptable as the leotard was invented by a man for men to wear. All male competors I have seen however who wear a leotard also wear shorts for some odd reason.


So why not have dress rules for skating as long as they don't interfere with one's physical ability to skate.
Won't disagree there, but way say that one sex can wear one thing, and the other sex something else? Isn't that a bit sexist?


I am not after restricting your individuality, although I do not personally agree with the idea of men wearing skating dresses for skating. Sometimes one has to compromise on individuality when it affects other people. I am glad you enjoy your skating and I do hope when you compete you meet good judges who can reach fair decisions regardless of costume or whatever.
Compromise on individuality? Ahh, so I should be just like everone else then? I don't think thats going to work for me. And it wouldn't be a pretty site if I were to be what some people think I should be.


As for your rinks new rules - why not view it as a challenge for your creativity - and wear a skirt over the trousers? Black leggings are trousers that are not much different to tights. If you like the skirts then a skirted top can easily be worn over them. Poppers on the outside of the trouser waistband and the inside of the top will keep them together. You can use the same fabrics you already like and use, for the tops. In fact with the right pair of trousers and some of the higher waisted dresses you could wear the dress as is and have low rise trousers on over the bottom part. Cotton lycra yoga pants are good for this!

Good luck with your skating!
Yes, there are many other things I have discussed with designers about deffernt styles and such, and honestly, they deplore the trousers/skirt look, they say it messes up my lines. Leggings, maybe, depends in how specific one wants to get, as tights are pretty much leggings. Hmm, I could get some flesh colored trousers made, boy that would rile them up.

Higher waist, maybe, I have a goofy top to bottom proportion, so some styles don't work on me all that well. Course then I have to invest in a another set of clothes, such sillyness, why oh why am I disallowed the choice?

Steven

[Mrs Redboots]

When I first came into the sport, the convention was still very much that compulsory dances were done wearing plain black dresses (for the women) and/or shirts and trousers (the men). I should think they were even more boring to watch than they are now - although I don't personally find them boring, since compulsory dance is what I do! But I do see why people do find them boring!

But figures tests and compulsory dance tests were always done in the plainest of clothes. Maybe we place too much stress on costumes these days? I seem to remember that in Improvisation classes, we are expected to wear fairly plain dresses, and we all skate to EXACTLY the same music, not a choice of 5!

We are never going to agree on this issue, I think - there will be as many views as there are skaters. All the same (I'm watching the London Marathon as I type this) I am glad we are not expected to perform in bikinis, the way women runners are!

[TashaKat]

I would prefer to see someone like Dorothy Hamill etc skating in a plain costume than *some* skaters skating in their finery! There are some skaters who don't need the costume to sell the performance :D

[batikat]

Odd, I didn't think snooker players were required to wear dresses,

:lol: OOps! - evening dress for men equalling black trousers/waistcoat/ bow tie or whatever - i.e. formal wear - NOT dresses!!!!! :lol:



as for the other sports, yes, there are strict rules of dress, as you must wear something. But none of those say that a lady must wear a skirt if she wants to participate in it.

Actually, I have seen men wear leotards for gymnastics, which would be perfectly acceptable as the leotard was invented by a man for men to wear. All male competors I have seen however who wear a leotard also wear shorts for some odd reason.
Those that don't specify a skirt may be ones where a skirt is not practical (e.g swimming) :lol: . In netball and hockey even the most amateur ladies teams all seem to wear skirts for competition - is it a rule? I dont' know but it is at the very least a custom that appears to be pretty strictly adhered to.

As for men and leotards:I would imagine they wear shorts over because they appreciate that a sporting arena is not the place to have their dangly bits on show! I'm not keen on mens ballet outfits for that reason :oops: too distracting!



, but way say that one sex can wear one thing, and the other sex something else? Isn't that a bit sexist?

But the sexes are different - not one better or worse than the other but different. If mens and womens bodies were identical then identical clothing makes sense - but they're not! I'd conceed that trousers (cut for women) can look good on women (but I still prefer skirts for competition skating) but ladies style skating dresses on men - sorry - to me that is not a good look - however good one's legs.



Compromise on individuality? Ahh, so I should be just like everone else then? I don't think thats going to work for me. And it wouldn't be a pretty site if I were to be what some people think I should be.

Now I'm intrigued - what do people think you should be??? A compromise doesn't make you the same as everyone else. There's plenty of variety in what I see at the rink. I would not however want to see a man skating in a ladies type of dress. Sorry but there it is. Is one persons right to be an individual more or less important than other people's rights not to be upset by something that they feel to be out of the norm?



Yes, there are many other things I have discussed with designers about deffernt styles and such, and honestly, they deplore the trousers/skirt look, they say it messes up my lines. Leggings, maybe, depends in how specific one wants to get, as tights are pretty much leggings. Hmm, I could get some flesh colored trousers made, boy that would rile them up.


Would you want to rile them up - why?

[SkateGuard]

I can understand how some women would feel uncomfortable wearing a skirt for testing...it's hard enough to go in front of the judges for the first couple of times without feeling overly self-concious.

I do something a bit weird...I only wear skating dresses when I test or compete. The getting into costume thing gives me that extra bit of adrenaline.

However, I know people who have been skating for years, and will probably never test because of the skirt requirement.

I also agree with the person who said that skating dresses and skirts are made for teens. And since girls have been growing and maturing at younger ages, the adult dresses are styled for younger skaters. I am the only adult student my coach has where she doesn't have to make the dress. (My coach is so gifted that she finished one student's dress at Adult Nationals--it wasn't even fully cut when we got there!) Everyone else has boobs or hips or is over the age of 45 and can't find a good dress.

And adult dresses are so expensive--many adult skaters don't understand why they have to buy a $100 dress that doesn't fit for testing. They'd rather not test.

Now for competition, I would rather see a nice costume appropriate to the music, either skirt or pants, than a poorly fitting dress that is not related to the music in any way.

As for gymnastics, I'm not fond of the modern leotards--they're cut way to high for prepubesent girls.

Erin
(who as a child, always wondered why there wasn't a "team uniform" in skating)

[SDFanatic]

:lol: OOps! - evening dress for men equalling black trousers/waistcoat/ bow tie or whatever - i.e. formal wear - NOT dresses!!!!! :lol:

Ahh, penguin suits, the kind you see at fancy dinner parties were all the guys wear the same boring thing, and the ladies wear all kinds of fancy and different things.


Those that don't specify a skirt may be ones where a skirt is not practical (e.g swimming) :lol: . In netball and hockey even the most amateur ladies teams all seem to wear skirts for competition - is it a rule? I dont' know but it is at the very least a custom that appears to be pretty strictly adhered to.
Want to know something? Boys are starting to wear skirts for netball. But I ponder on the practicality on any sport saying that one needs to wear a skirt however. What does a bunch of loose fabric hanging from the waist flying all over the place have to do with anything? Oh, that’s right, it's "traditional" not that it has anything really to do with actually doing anything as it's just for "looks" and it definitely doesn’t have anything to do with modesty anymore now does it?


As for men and leotards:I would imagine they wear shorts over because they appreciate that a sporting arena is not the place to have their dangly bits on show! I'm not keen on mens ballet outfits for that reason :oops: too distracting!
Ahh, and plunging necklines, nude fabric, and/or crotch shoots are not distracting then eh? Nah, those are not distracting, after all, women do it all the time, but how dare a man have a visible bulge.

What’s interesting is that, yes, a man with a bulge may be distracting for some, but the same people won't allow a skirt to "hide" it, In fact, my skirts hide my "bulge" better then my leggings or trousers. And heaven forbid if the people at "Girls Gone Wild" start going after guys showing off their bulges.

Course I’m just weird since I don’t treat people as objects, so stuff like that doesn’t effect me the way it does others.


But the sexes are different - not one better or worse than the other but different. If mens and womens bodies were identical then identical clothing makes sense - but they're not! I'd conceed that trousers (cut for women) can look good on women (but I still prefer skirts for competition skating) but ladies style skating dresses on men - sorry - to me that is not a good look - however good one's legs.
Yes, they are different, even in the same sex people are different, do you know my one seamstress prefers mens pants as they fit her better? Another female friend of mine also wears mens pants as the waist on most women’s pants are too high for her. You know how many times I would have loved to be in a skirt rather then pants at work when I'm outside on hot and humid 80-90 degree day? Course I don't even let my female employees wear a skirt at work, as it's not practical as well as not safe. But I love to wear a skirt, there much better then pants at times, but since your not a man, I guess you may never understand.


Now I'm intrigued - what do people think you should be??? A compromise doesn't make you the same as everyone else. There's plenty of variety in what I see at the rink. I would not however want to see a man skating in a ladies type of dress. Sorry but there it is. Is one persons right to be an individual more or less important than other people's rights not to be upset by something that they feel to be out of the norm?
What people think? People think I'm a child molesting sexual pervert and an abomination to GOD, but I don't think I could be that way, even if I got up on the wrong side of the bed that day.

Oh, I'm sure people are upset, but not everybody voices their concerns to me, so I couldn't tell you percentage wise of who is, and isn't upset. As for individuality, I have a really goofy thing about that, I let people be individuals. I don't care what they wear, how they look, if they are tall or short, fat or skinny, skin color, etc, etc, etc. Sure, I may not like how someone looks or what they wear, but unless that person does something that makes me think differently of them, I don’t let such things prejudice me. So odly enough, I let them be them, and not what I think they should be.

I'm sorry if some are upset, but what am I supposed to do? Go to each person and ask them what I should be wearing when I'm around them? What if one person says it's fine if I wear a skirt, but the other one does not? How about if two of them say it's ok, but one does not? Does democracy rule? And what about my rights to choose? As it stands right now if they put that rule into effect, I can wear my skirts anywhere I want, except on the ice. Yes, I mean everywhere, on the bus, the subway, the sidewalk, when shopping, when eating out, when walking, in the lobby of the rink. So why can’t I wear a skirt on the ice?


Would you want to rile them up - why?
I was just saying, I could wear pants or leggings, but make them flesh color, I can hear the groans already.

Steven

[Mrs Redboots]

Ahh, penguin suits, the kind you see at fancy dinner parties were all the guys wear the same boring thing, and the ladies wear all kinds of fancy and different things.Do they? In my experience we all wear black..... or, just possibly, black trousers with a pretty top.

But for sheer sexiness, give me a man in a dinner jacket any day of the week. Mmmmm :yum:

[batikat]

Just got back to this forum after a break due to making skating costumes for my kids! They are competing in pairs tomorrow and trying to get suitable pair outfits is a real nightmare so I resort to making them.

A final thought on the skating dress issue:
For anyone who is struggling to find a dress to fit - making skating dresses is not really so tough if you have a decent machine with a stretch stitch (not necessarily an overlocker). There are good patterns available (e.g Butterick5781) and Kwik Sew do a great Swim and Action Wear book with ideas for customising and patterns. The great thing about lycra is that it stretches and is really quite easy to sew so you don't have to worry too much about an exact fit. A friend of mine simply drapes fabric over a dressmakers dummy (or her daughter!), pins it together with the right side inside and pins and chops away til it fits/hangs right! So if you cant' find something that fits - try making one. (I appreciate not everyone would want to but it's easier than you might think!). And much easier than making a decent pair of trousers :lol:

Steven - I'm sorry to hear that people are apparently judging your character so harshly based on your choice of attire. Though I can understand how anyone who chooses to go against accepted social customs and practice might initially arouse suspicion - it's the way society works. People are naturally wary of something they don't understand. Plus if everyone insisted on their rights to choose to be different in every situation, we would have anarchy. You seem like a nice guy and I've enjoyed our conversation on this thread - but I'd still prefer to see you skate in trousers (and yes I have seen the picture of you in a dress). It's an aesthetic preference I guess - I like men to look like men :) I would be very surprised to find any woman who did not prefer it. You are of course free to ignore our preferences!!

Something I just have to know before I go, to satisfy my idle curiosity...
What on earth is Girls Gone Wild? and where have you ever seen a boy play netball in a skirt (other than at a charity/fancy dress/fun event)?

Happy skating everyone!

[SDFanatic]

Just got back to this forum after a break due to making skating costumes for my kids! They are competing in pairs tomorrow and trying to get suitable pair outfits is a real nightmare so I resort to making them.

A final thought on the skating dress issue:
For anyone who is struggling to find a dress to fit - making skating dresses is not really so tough if you have a decent machine with a stretch stitch (not necessarily an overlocker). There are good patterns available (e.g Butterick5781) and Kwik Sew do a great Swim and Action Wear book with ideas for customising and patterns. The great thing about lycra is that it stretches and is really quite easy to sew so you don't have to worry too much about an exact fit. A friend of mine simply drapes fabric over a dressmakers dummy (or her daughter!), pins it together with the right side inside and pins and chops away til it fits/hangs right! So if you cant' find something that fits - try making one. (I appreciate not everyone would want to but it's easier than you might think!). And much easier than making a decent pair of trousers :lol:
I agree, I started sewing my own also as I grew tired of waiting so long for alterations or getting someting made, in fact, some of my stuff has been waiting for nearly three years (maybe four) talk about patience! I'm trying to get a good sloper made so I can work off that, I'm a bit fickle when it comes to the fit and such, but it sure is hard to try and pin yourself! (www.lovetoskate.com is having a 25% off sale at the moment also, some are easy to modify to something else)


Steven - I'm sorry to hear that people are apparently judging your character so harshly based on your choice of attire. Though I can understand how anyone who chooses to go against accepted social customs and practice might initially arouse suspicion - it's the way society works. People are naturally wary of something they don't understand. Plus if everyone insisted on their rights to choose to be different in every situation, we would have anarchy. You seem like a nice guy and I've enjoyed our conversation on this thread - but I'd still prefer to see you skate in trousers (and yes I have seen the picture of you in a dress). It's an aesthetic preference I guess - I like men to look like men :) I would be very surprised to find any woman who did not prefer it. You are of course free to ignore our preferences!!
Yes, thats how people are, some are pretty cool about it though, and far too many of them want my legs. And yes, we would have anarchy if we also did not have tolerance. And it's fine that you prefer your men in pants, you have that choice, me? I could really care less, course pants are not traditional female wear, and I don't think a women in pants looks like a man :P (course, some people have had me guessing) Prefer? I'm not sure, many don't care, the ones that don't however are either too young, too old, or already taken 8-) I'm still a guy Batikat, no mistake in that, be it that I'm wearing pants or a skirt. I hope that a guy in a skirt doesn't scare you too much to not get to know better.


Something I just have to know before I go, to satisfy my idle curiosity...
What on earth is Girls Gone Wild? and where have you ever seen a boy play netball in a skirt (other than at a charity/fancy dress/fun event)?

Happy skating everyone!

Girls Gone Wild is a demeaning to women company that goes around videotaping females showing off their top, and even bottom parts. I find it very degrading to women, but they make loads of money because thats what guys want to see. They advertise quite a bit on TV with the little stars covering things.

I haven't seen them play netball (in fact, I've never seen a netball game yet) but someone posted this article a while back http://www.grapevine-press.co.uk/grapevine/10_8/netball.html

Steven

[Canskater]

For those interested in making their own skating dresses, you might be interested in the "Jalie" pattern line ..... I used (and modified) #2214 on quite a number of occasions in the beginning when I started doing dresses. A nice thing about Jalie is that the pattern envelope contains *all* sizes .. from small child to bigger adult, though some patterns are clearly not suitable for little kids ... i.e. the asymetrical view of 2214, and some others would look silly on a mature adult. However, that said, it's a good starting point.

While I agree with the poster above who states that lycra fabrics are generally forgiving and relatively easy to work with, their are a few caveats here ..... one of the biggest one is "degree of stretch". A garment made of a 70% stretch, 4-way stretch fabric will fit considerably differently than one made of 40% stretch or a 2-way stretch fabric. In fact, the size one would wear in a 70% 4-way would usually be a size or two smaller than the size one would wear (same pattern) in a 40% or 2-way stretch fabric. Also, if one works with light colored fabrics and must therefore line the garment, the lining fabric should have the same degree of stretch as the outer garment or the fit will be completely off.

All of that said, making you own really isn't all that difficult and actually can be quite fun once you get into it.

Regarding Love to Skate ..... I would wager to say that e-bay has essentially been their downfall.

-- sheilagh

[Mrs Redboots]

Just got back to this forum after a break due to making skating costumes for my kids! They are competing in pairs tomorrow and trying to get suitable pair outfits is a real nightmare so I resort to making them.Best of luck to them! Are they/you coming to SOF next week?

A final thought on the skating dress issue:
For anyone who is struggling to find a dress to fit - making skating dresses is not really so tough if you have a decent machine with a stretch stitch (not necessarily an overlocker). Well - maybe not for you, but I struggle....

[Gold*starblade]

I don't want to advertise or anything but I also know a woman who sews incredible dresses both practice and show for excellent prices, additionally she specializes in adult and hard to fit sizes. If anyone is interested please just email me and I can send you the information. I know she doesn't have a website...but she might in the future, I would have to ask.

[kisscid]

Erin
(who as a child, always wondered why there wasn't a "team uniform" in skating)

I always wondered this myself. They have Team warm up suits. I wouldn't mind seeing a "Team Uniform".
Cid

[Mrs Redboots]

I always wondered this myself. They have Team warm up suits. I wouldn't mind seeing a "Team Uniform".
CidSynchro skaters?

[kisscid]

Yes they have one..But I wonder what it would be like if Sasha, Michelle and Jenny all had to wear Team dresses. I think there was a competition YEARS ago where the elite skaters were broken up by North , South, East, West and had a series of competitions. I think they had Team dresses for that one. But My brain may be befuddled too.
Cid

[flo]

Speaking again of GC issues, there is an issue addressing the pairs tests and cometition requirements. The competition structure would be bronze, silver and gold. One part I'm confused on is the grandfathering or test requirements. I would be a gold pair, as I have a juvenile pair test, but it also states that the silver pair must have tested no higher than the pre-juvenile pair test. I didn't know there was one. Does anyone here have any experience with that test?
Thanks

[Michigansk8er]

Speaking again of GC issues, there is an issue addressing the pairs tests and cometition requirements. The competition structure would be bronze, silver and gold. One part I'm confused on is the grandfathering or test requirements. I would be a gold pair, as I have a juvenile pair test, but it also states that the silver pair must have tested no higher than the pre-juvenile pair test. I didn't know there was one. Does anyone here have any experience with that test?
Thanks

I don't know anything about pairs, but found this in some 2000 Governing Council notes: A Pre-Juvenile Pairs event has been added. Test requirements are the Preliminary Pair Test and at least Pre-Juvenile MIF.

[kisscid]

Speaking again of GC issues,

Oh fine stay ON topic. Hee Hee (Internet Sarcasm - ment to be funny, but probably isn't)
Cid

[flo]

Oh well - once in a while!
Thanks Michigan - It's good to know - I wonder why there's no judging sheet for that test.
Thanks!

[Elsy2]

I don't know anything about pairs, but found this in some 2000 Governing Council notes: A Pre-Juvenile Pairs event has been added. Test requirements are the Preliminary Pair Test and at least Pre-Juvenile MIF.

Well I guess somewhere along the line they changed their minds. Check page 210 of the rulebook, Schedule of Pair Tests. They list Preliminary, Juvenile...etc.

[flo]

Thanks,
It's very strange, I couldn't find anything in the 2003 book, but thought perhaps it was slipped in last year. If there is no pre-juv pair, it shouldn't be in the proposed adult silver pair competition description. More confusion.

[skaternum]

Yes, this confused me too. If there's no pre-juvenile pair test, why list it as a requisite test? Methinks someone will have to propose an amendment from the floor to clear this up.

Michigansk8r's notes must be referring to a competition event being added somewhere, not a test being added.

[flo]

I sent in a note, and there is no pre-juv test. When I was told that, under the new proposal, I would be a gold pair it didn't make sense. I think I'll be silver with a juvenile test, and I have an adult Silver pair test.

[skaternum]

I just sent off an email to Les Ascher asking about the pre-juvenile test issue. Assuming it's a typo (or even a thinko), I asked what would replace it when they correct it.

I also asked about the proposed well-balanced program components. The proposal says existing SSR 6.11 and 6.12 will be deleted and replaced with a new 6.11 through 6.14. However, the proposal only gives the new text for 6.11 and 6.12 -- it completely omits the text for 6.13 and 6.14. So we can't see what the well-balanced components are for Adult Gold Pairs and Masters Pairs. I want to know what these are, especially since my partner and I will be put in Gold Pairs because of a Juv FS test he passed 20 years ago.

If I hear back, I'll post the answers.

[flo]

Hi,
I got a reply that the silver and gold requirement would be juvenile. So what level would a juvenile skater be? Do two juveniles make a gold??? Confused.