Possible changes in Adult Moves in the Field elements

[sk8pics]

Just wanted to give everyone in the U.S. who tests the adult moves in the field track that there is a proposal to change the elements at each level. So, pre-preliminary would translate into pre-bronze, preliminary into bronze, and so on. I haven't looked, so I don't know if all the elements are used in the adult version or not. Supposedly the passing score is 0.1 lower on each element for the adults.

So... those of you testing might want to consider the timing of your test, depending on whether the old or new version would be best for you. Obviously I don't know if this proposal will pass; it wll be interesting to see. Below, just fyi, I showed the current and proposed Bronze test elements. Too bad I can't pick and choose from the entire set of elements! I may be stuck having to do those awful alternating 3's after all!

Current:
Forward perimeter power crossover stroking
Backward perimeter power crossover stroking
forward power 3's
Alternating backward crossovers to back outside edge
5 step Mohawk

Proposed:
Forward and backward crossovers
Consecutive outside and inside spirals
Forward power 3's
Alternating forward 3-turns (outside and inside)
Alternating backward crossovers to back outside edge

If anyone wants more information, about the other levels, I can provide it. Anyone going to adult nationals can provide some input; there is a survey you can hand in there.

Pat

[skaternum]

I assume this in the proposals in the Governing Council packet? Does this mean that Adult Gold moves would be drawn exclusively from the Juvenile Moves?

By the way, here's a link to the proposal that makes the Adult Skating committee a permanent committee: Exhibit C (http://www.usfsa.org/shell.asp?cat=3&id=3&sid=24205)

I couldn't find a link to the MITF proposal. They usually don't put those on the web anyway.

[Lurking Skater]

Maybe I should start pushing my bronze moves more. I don't want to test those alternating threes for a third time.

I'm all for fine tuning of the Adult MITF tests, but since I test on both tracks, I really don't want to end up having to test some moves three different times, especially the ones I hate.

[Michigansk8er]

If this is true, that would be great, and make a lot more sense than what we currently have.

[sk8pics]

skatermum --I think so. A friend who is a delegate sent it to me. And yes, juvenile moves would be equivalent to the adult gold. So, for gold:

Existing Adult GOLD MIF
(Utilizes Juvenile, Modified Juvenile and Intermediate MIF )
Forward Power Circles
Backward Power Circles
Forward Double 3-turns
Backward Double 3-turns
Backward Perimeter Power Stroking with Back Inside and Forward Inside 3-turns
Brackets in the Field Sequence
Passing Average = 3.0 ; Passing Total 18.0

Proposed Adult GOLD MIF
(Utilizes only Juvenile MIF)
Eight Step Mohawk Sequence
Forward and Backward Freeskating Cross Strokes
Backward Power 3-turns
Forward Double 3-turns
Passing Average = 2.9 ; Passing Total 11.6

Lurking Skater - I don't know what if any plans exist for crossing over from one track to the other. The only reference to crossing over I saw was for crossing over to intermediate moves after passing adult gold, saying that it would be more appropriate with the new structure. BTW, I'm impressed you've already passed those alternating 3's twice! You should get a medal.

Pat

[Debbie S]

Hey Pat,

Thanks for posting this. So basically, what it sounds like is that adult MIF would replicate standard MIF at each level. So if I want to take Pre-Bronze FS, I would need to pass Pre-prelim MIF (named Adult Pre-Bronze for my purposes) first, which I'm assuming would have the same judging standard as the standard test - they're both pass/retry. (And it's not as if the judges actually follow the "Adult MIF" guidelines anyway.)

My question (especially as someone who has already signed up and paid to take Pre-Bronze MIF and FS next Monday) is what will be the procedure for adults who have already passed some of the moves in a particular track on an "old" adult test? Does this mean I'll have to pass those dratted alt 3s twice? (Of course, the way my practice went this week, I may not pass them for the first time for a while :(.) And there are some Pre-Juv moves on the Bronze test - I'm assuming they would now be part of the Silver test.

I really think there should be a grandfathering/exemption system in place for adults who have already passed a move on a (now) lower-level adult test. My rationale for saying this is: if I pass Pre-Bronze MIF and FS, and then take Bronze MIF, I'd have to repeat some moves that I already passed in the adult track . I know this is the same issue that adults who passed standard MIF and FS tests before they were 25 have when switching to the adult track (which is why I think they should be grandfathered as well - has that been proposed?) but in my (and anyone else's) case, if I follow the adult track and pass moves at a particular level, having to pass them again would be akin to me being told that I haven't yet proved I'm ready to take the next FS test (as far as those particular moves are concerned) when in fact I have, albeit for a different FS test. If the judges pass me at the standard for a particular move, why should I need to demonstrate that same standard again?

I realize this could get very messy, with a different Bronze/Silver/Gold moves test being required for different skaters depending on test history, but perhaps there could be a 1-year "transition period", where there are parallel tests. Since it takes about a year to perfect a moves test, and the changes in adult moves would be off by 1 test level (some current Pre-Bronze now in Bronze, some Bronze now in Silver, etc.), that would allow most adults to avoid testing the same moves multiple times.

When would this proposal (if adopted) take effect? I assume it will be presented at this year's GC?

It would be a good idea (particularly for those of us not going to ANs) to let our club's (or any club's) GC delegates know how we feel about this, however that may be.

[Terri C]

While I understand what they're trying to do, it looks like I WILL be pushing to get my Bronze moves on before this proposal passes. I've been there done that and worn the shirt (proudly) on the Alt's 3's and do not want to have to test this again! And I do want to hae to do the spiral sequence!!
Who came up with this proposal and what is the rationale??? :??

[Terri C]

Wht I meant to say was- I do not want to do the spiral sequence!!

[Elsy2]

Usually when such changes are made, there is a fairly long period of time for implementation, so....many of us who have been working on moves should test them ASAP to avoid some of these issues.

I agree with the intent of these changes even though I understand everyone's reluctance to test the spiral sequence. Even the kids hate that one, and I see alot of kids pass with spirals that are not hip level or totally in control.

[SkateGuard]

Call me on the other side of the fence...

I think I would stay a bronze until these new moves are implemented. I test both tracks, and the pre-juv test is much easier than the current silver test. (I was planning on testing pre-juv as a warmup for the silver test.) It makes a lot of sense since there are Intermediate moves and a novice move on the Gold test which have to be re-tested after passing the gold test.

As for grandfathering...since I've passed my prelim MIF, I have to retest the straight-line spiral sequence according to the current test structure.

By the way, the alternating 3's are on the current pre-bronze test, so adults have to do them with both structures.

Erin
(who has been whining about the Adult MIF test stucture ever since it came out!)

[Michigansk8er]

If I'm remembering right, the year I went to GC the majority of changes went into effect in September of that year (the adult moves were an exception).........so we could look at the change for this year. Oh, I hope this is true!

Michigansk8er
(who has also been whining about the Adult MIF tests since they came out)

[w.w.west]

Hello,

There is NOT a propsosal on this year's GC agenda for a change in the Adult Moves structure. Yes, there has been discussion about this. It is still in the beginning stages. It requires much more thought and discussion to bring a change like this about. There are many factors involved.

I would be interested to know who gave you this information though.

Also, there will be a survey at Adult Nationals. There will also be a survey available on the USFSA website very soon for those members that may not make it to Adult Nationals. As soon as it is available on the website, something will be posted here as well as other message boards.

Also, adult skaters do not need to wait for a survey to express their concerns to the Adult Skating Commitee. We are adult skaters ourselves. While we certainly cannot make everyone happy, the good of the Adult Skating Community as a whole is considered. The names and contact information of the Chair, Sectional Vice Chairs and Committee Members are listed in the U.S. Figure Skating directory that comes with the rulebook as well as on the adult page on usfigureskating.org.

There are several concerns. We know that. We appreciate your input. We also appreciate your patience.

Gail Sombati
Midwest Vice Chair, Adult Skating Commitee

[jazzpants]

Can you also give info on pre-Bronze and Silver MITF?

AHA!!! Yet another reason I better hurry up and test Bronze MITF soon! Assuming this list DOES comes into effect (which I highly doubt), I'm not looking forward to doing those prelim spirals. (Well, I don't mind, but my lower back does!) :P

I'm not too upset about learning alt. 3's, since in the current Adult Silver Moves, I have to do the pre-Juv 3's anyway and doing alt. 3's would be a good training ground to start. Plus I'll have the advantage of having practiced for most of the other pre-Juv moves anyway, if the Silver Moves are mostly pre-Juv moves. But my knees aren't gonna enjoy those power pulls!!! :evil:

Those of you who have gone through the Bronze Moves, a question -- does anyone think the pre-Juv part of the test is EASIER than the prelim part of the test, or is it just me??? :lol:

[jenlyon60]

Me too.... I think the pre-juv stuff is easier.

I actually realized that on 4 of the 5 current Bronze Moves, Power is at least one of the foci (Focuses).



Those of you who have gone through the Bronze Moves, a question -- does anyone think the pre-Juv part of the test is EASIER than the prelim part of the test, or is it just me??? :lol:

[sk8pics]

Nice to see all this discussion.

The proposal was forwarded by Maggie Harding, and at the top says, "Proposal for Revision to Requirements for Adult MIF Tests." I understand this is to be discussed at the adult committe meeting in Lake Placid. I have no personal knowledge of what will happen to this after the Lake Placid meeting.

I also have no idea what will happen if you already passed, say, pre-bronze moves, and now have to retest some of the elements on a changed bronze moves test. I agree that it's hardly fair to have to test them again, but I doubt it would be too feasible to have different requirements depending on test history. Oh, and Debbie, you would still take the adult track moves, not the standard, even though now they are the same moves at the corresponding level, and supposedly at the lower passing standard.

And it looks to me like skaters at the higher moves levels may be happier than those at the lower levels! Count me in as one who appreciates the importance of the alternating 3's, but who never wants to test them, ever!

I encourage everyone to provide feedback, as Gail has suggested. I hope this is truly in an early stage and won't be implemented this year. I'd also suggest that even when something like this is at an early stage, feedback should be solicited and it should be publicized early, so more people's opinions can be collected, instead of a relatively small group.

Pat

[w.w.west]

Since this came directly from Maggie, I know that she would not say it was a proposal to be be presented at this year's GC. It was a proposal that was sent to fellow Adult Commitee members. So, please, unless it is fact, do not post in a way that may be misunderstood. In this case, it was presented in a way that people were led to believe it was a proposal for this year's GC, which is not the case. Posting information is fine if it is done within the correct context.

I can assure you it is in an early stage. In fact, the Adult MIF will be discussed at a meeting at this year's Adult Nationals. The moves that were posted here are just a starting point. They may or may not end up being the ones that are proposed for change. You have to start somewhere.

Again, your patience is appreciated.

Good luck to everyone going to AN!

[Michigansk8er]

I won't be at AN this year..............but this proposal gets my full support! I'll be keeping my eyes open for the online survey. Thanks for filling us in on the details Gail!

[kar5162]

I think this would have made sense from the beginning. Now? Well, I guess it's better late than never, but for me to test the cross strokes and 8 step mohawks 3 times seems a little ridiculous. :roll: Hopefully by the time anything new passes I will have passed the Gold moves though and grandfathered myself into Intermediate, which I have already passed.

Kim...who has spent a ridiculous amount of money doing these tests now and still may never make it to Nationals because it's held at nearly the worst possible time of year for accountants. Hoping for next year though.

[tazsk8s]

Me too.... I think the pre-juv stuff is easier.



Everything except the power pulls. OY!

OTOH, if I didn't have to deal with that dratted move from Intermediate just yet, I'd be one happy camper!

[backspin]

My guess would be, that if/when they change the elements around, you won't have to go back & retest. Every so often, they change things in the compulsory dance levels; skaters who are already through that level don't have to go back & retake it.

Example: this past year they added the Starlight Waltz to the pre-gold level. Those already through pre-gold don't have to go back & do the Starlight.

[Mel On Ice]

I'd better pass Bronze in May, I don't want to have to start all over again.

[jazzpants]

Everything except the power pulls. OY!

OTOH, if I didn't have to deal with that dratted move from Intermediate just yet, I'd be one happy camper!Thankfully, the power pulls are not on the current Adult Moves structure. OWWWW! My KNEE!!!! :cry:

My friend at my rink who's learning the slide chasse from the Int. Moves agrees with you!!! It's EVIL!!! :evil:

[dbny]

Thankfully, the power pulls are not on the current Adult Moves structure. OWWWW! My KNEE!!!! :cry:


The first few times I tried F power pulls they did hurt my knee, but then I had a few lessons on them and discovered that I was doing them wrong. No more hurting the knee!

[SkateGuard]

Thanks, Gail, for the correction. It's great to have someone "in the know" when information comes out on the boards and lists.

(And this is nothing compared to the News section of this board!) ;)

Well, a contingent from my club (I believe five, including one of our club board members) will be in LP this week, and most of us are planning to attend the meeting.

I find this rather interesting, considering I was going to use my pre-juv to prepare myself for the Silver MIF. I was grandfathered into bronze, and even though I have tested my prelim MIF and two pre-bronze dances (solo), I am rather overwhelmed by the jump I have to make from bronze to silver. I can't imagine going from no moves test to Silver MIF. I think that's why I am rather hesitant to claim sandbagging when a skater hasn't moved up. In five years, I may change that opinion.

But I'll talk to everyone at AN.

Erin
(who is waiting for the company polos she promised to wear this week are dry)

[Terri C]

Those of you who have gone through the Bronze Moves, a question -- does anyone think the pre-Juv part of the test is EASIER than the prelim part of the test, or is it just me??? :lol:


Amen, amen, amen-- the "pre juvie" moves on the Bronze is definitelyeasier!!

[Terri C]

Those of you who have gone through the Bronze Moves, a question -- does anyone think the pre-Juv part of the test is EASIER than the prelim part of the test, or is it just me??? :lol:

Amen, sister! Here's another skater that will pass the Bronze MIF before it's changed AGAIN!