What "Adult" means to USFSA

[skaternum]

Every so often, the topic of adult skater vs. continuing skater crops up. There are some who perceive a trend in USFSA to interpret adult skater to mean someone who skates, turns 25, and keeps skating. For example, I heard the term used repeatedly and almost exclusively in this context at the last Governing Council I attended. This is frustrating to those of us who prefer to see the term adult skater interpreted as it was more-or-less originally intended to apply: someone who starts skating as an adult. And, of course, we'd like not to see real adult skaters ignored by USFSA.

Along those lines, I noticed an interesting quote on the USFSA website article on the Adult event at Synchro Nationals. It says:

"Team member Beth Swanson said that about 75 percent of the team skated on the younger Elan squads at some point in their careers. Swanson couldn't contain her excitement about the gold medal."

Is this where adult skating is headed in USFSA? Thoughts?

[jp1andOnly]

Well syncro is different from singles or dance. There are various levels of adult skating in syncro. For example, in Canada you have adult competitive or adult festival. Then you have older teams that are masters. Depending on which route your team is going some teams are made up of all former skaters and have world class skills. Other teams have beginner skaters.

I am a person who skated when I was younger nad stopped when I hit 14. I wasn't competitive. I probably socialized more than I skated. I passed a few tests but nothing to write home about. Over the years I have stepped in and out of skating. I mostly coached learn to skate programs and special olympics. I was never paid, I volunteered. I skated on an adult team one year where I was not the best skater and our teams wasn't the bes.t After that I stopped for 4 or 5 years. I have just started back into skating and I am finding a new love of it.

There are many faces of adult skating

[w.w.west]

The Adult Skating Program is for Singles, Pairs and Dance and is for skaters "25 and over" not necessarily if you started skating as an adult or not. Yes, there are some adults that have started as an adult. But, there are also some that have passed standard tests as well and then decided to cross over to the adult track.

Adult Synchro. is a whole different ballgame. Then, of course, there is Adult Masters. Adult Masters in Synchro. is opposite of Masters in Adult Nationals and Adult Sectionals in that Adult Masters in the Syncronized world means age and not level.

There are indeed many faces of adult skating. However, Adult Synchro. falls under the Synchronized Skating Program not the Adult Skating Program.

Okay, everyone clear on that? Hope that clears things up...errr....doesn't confuse things more?

[skateflo]

Hard as it is to accept, IMHO, the USFS is a competitive organization and will do everything possible to keep skaters in their ranks, from their younger years, college, and on into adult years. That is where in years past the ISI differed and welcomed all.

Complaints (and discussions over recent years) have been sent to Skating magazine as the articles on Adult skaters were all about skaters returning after a break from their younger years. The point being that people who learned to skate as adults were being ignored (and they were.)

Ironically, having a full collection of Skating magazine since the first issue, adult skaters were frequently written about until the 1961 crash. Rarely were adult skaters even mentioned until the push really came for Adult skating competitions.

Now adult skating has evolved into sectionals, etc. and the skaters that have returned to the sport after 5-20 years are frequently taking the top spots. It takes an especially focused and determined adult skater to continue to compete against the returning skaters.

Yes, there are a number of local and regional competitions that now have adult portions included in their competitions. But I also feel the adult who learned to skate as an adult, and I agree that 'adult skater' was originally the meaning, has been shuttled to the back rink.

ISI is not prevalent here in the Northeast having been the founding area of the USFS.

I would love to see a section for those who learned as adults (I started at age 46) but somehow it does not fit in with the focus of the USFS.

[skaternum]

Originally posted by w.w.west
The Adult Skating Program is for Singles, Pairs and Dance and is for skaters "25 and over" not necessarily if you started skating as an adult or not.

There are indeed many faces of adult skating. However, Adult Synchro. falls under the Synchronized Skating Program not the Adult Skating Program.

Okay, everyone clear on that? Hope that clears things up...errr....doesn't confuse things more?

Yes, I understand that adult synchro is not the same as the singles/pairs/dance adult skating program. But the difference helps to illustrate what I was questioning (apparently not very clearly!). In synchro, Adult means, in theory, anyone over the age of 25, and in practice, returning or continuing skater. At GC a couple of years ago, there was a lengthy discussion about the impending shortage of judges. One area that was identified as a source of replacements was "Adult skaters." I, of course, thought of people who started skating as adults. It became very clear to me, however, that they were referring to skaters who simply got older. ;)

Is this becoming an "institutionalized" or de facto philosophy throughout USFSA? Obviously pockets of USFSA (synchro, judges committee, etc.) interpret Adult differently from the Adult Skating Committee. Does this have a direct or indirect impact on the rules that are created to govern adult skating? Does it have an impact on how we are judged in tests? If the general body thinks that's what Adult means, will this influence the rules they make about us?

I believe that there can be a place for everyone in USFSA. I think there can be a robust program for returning/continuing skaters AND skaters who started as adults. I just think I may be seeing the beginning of a trend in USFSA, and I don't want to see skaters who started as adults get squeezed out.

Of course, it may not matter after a while. I haven't seen any "new" adults start the test stream since the adult MITF became mandatory. The only ones I've seen testing prebronze are the skaters who were already hooked. ;)

[Mel On Ice]

FYI: there are three different competitive arenas for adult synchro: Intro, Adult, and Masters. Adult and Masters are the only two that qualify for Nationals.

I'm torn on this issue as someone who first put skates on at 28. I've been stung in events where they simply grouped all adult skaters together and I, a pre-bronze working on bronze and silver elements, had to compete against a gold skater who said she skated as a kid, and just turned 25 to qualify for the competition. How can I compete against that?!

As much as I'd love to whine about how unfair it is to compete against someone with childhood training, it's not fair to judge skaters who come back to the sport they love. I'm sure there are many reasons to come back. Maybe they are looking to find the joy in skating that was missing when they quit so long ago. Or maybe the competitive stress was too much for them as kids, and now they are mature enough to handle it.

I would have a hard time asking the USFSA to resolve the issue to further dividing groups of adults as continuing adults vs. new adults. The best solution for us new to the sport is to keep working on our skills and seek the competitive level that is right for us.

[Beccapoo2003]

Amen, Skateflo!
I started at age 38, and am proud to say that I'm an Adult Skater! Competitive adult skating is in it's infancy, and I think for a while, we'll have to skate with those who have had experience in their childhood. I always wanted to skate as a kid, but we didn't have a rink. When a rink opened near my home, I was the only adult in the classes. Now, we have a bunch of adults in our Monday night class! I feel SO fortunate to be able to be living a lifelong dream, now! I think before too long, Adult skating will become so popular (kinda like health clubs) that we'll have plenty of folks willing to become skaters in their adulthood!
Becca from Alabama
PS(Hi Lori and Melanie)!

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by Mel On Ice
As much as I'd love to whine about how unfair it is to compete against someone with childhood training, it's not fair to judge skaters who come back to the sport they love. I'm sure there are many reasons to come back. Maybe they are looking to find the joy in skating that was missing when they quit so long ago. Or maybe the competitive stress was too much for them as kids, and now they are mature enough to handle it.

I would have a hard time asking the USFSA to resolve the issue to further dividing groups of adults as continuing adults vs. new adults. The best solution for us new to the sport is to keep working on our skills and seek the competitive level that is right for us.

Thank you for your post, Mel. I am a returning skater, and I skate for exactly the reasons you list - I have regained the joy in skating that I lost as a teenager. I love skating, and I feel just as much a part of the adult skating scene as those of you who started as an adult. I skate at the level that is required of me by the rules (and by my own ethics), which is Gold. Sure, I may not understand every challenge those who started as adults face, but I have my own set of challenges. It's not easy making this almost 40 year old body do the things it did at 16.

skaternum - you mention that you haven't seen any adults who started as adults taking tests. In the past six months, one of the ladies at our rink (who started skating as an adult) has taken her pre-bronze MIF's and freestyle tests. She is looking forward to taking her bronze MIF's and freestyle soon so that she can finally do a program. We have a man who is working on the kids' track and will soon be doing the adult track, having recently passed his pre-preliminary MIF's and freestyle (he wants to do both). There are others that have successfully taken ISI tests. None of the folks I am talking about are under 30. I guess it's all in your attitude.....

[erdehoff]

I would love to see a section for those who learned as adults (I started at age 46) but somehow it does not fit in with the focus of the USFS.

But how would that be enforced on those who (like me) skated as kids but never tested? I think I did two or three competitions (just local non-qualifying events), but I stopped skating before I got to the point where my coach felt I was ready to test.

When setting up a competition in which the "real adult skaters" are separate from the returning kid skaters, how on earth does one split them? Is it that if you tested as a kid, you're with the returning skaters? Is it on the honor system? What if you just went through Basic Skills as a kid but never really got to the freestyle stuff? I don't see a good way to divide the "real" adults from the... what are we, "fake" adults? :)

[vesperholly]

Originally posted by erdehoff
[When setting up a competition in which the "real adult skaters" are separate from the returning kid skaters, how on earth does one split them? Is it that if you tested as a kid, you're with the returning skaters? Is it on the honor system? What if you just went through Basic Skills as a kid but never really got to the freestyle stuff? I don't see a good way to divide the "real" adults from the... what are we, "fake" adults? :)

I agree. This is only divisive to an already small community. Not to mention skaters who formerly achieved success in testing but whose skills have seriously lapsed due to time away, injury, whatever.

Speaking personally, I have been almost fearful at times of when I become age-eligible to skate as an adult. I started skating as a child, but didn't enter into private lessons until I was 13. I would hardly call myself a child skater. Since I haven't tested very high in freestyle, I plan on testing up to silver when I turn 25 in 18 months. I am curious to see if I will see any resentment since I am a "continuing" skater. Somehow, I doubt it - so far I have had nothing but positive, welcoming experiences - but only because with singles and no plans (yet) to compete in Championship, I am also not a competitive threat. I won't be "taking away" spots to Nationals.

I have to wonder where some of the complaining is coming from. Are former competitive skaters not adults? Certainly, I think it would be unfair if Todd Eldredge turned around and entered Championship Masters. But below that, who can say what is fair and where the line is to be drawn. I tend to think that the excellent skating in Masters at Easterns is great for pushing skaters to improve. Just look at manleywoman's post about how she will have to work on her double flip for next year because the top 4 had it. After all, you (collectively) are here to compete.

Perhaps Masters should be divided into Intermediate-Novice and Junior-Senior. There was very nearly a qualifying round at Easterns! Perhaps former Regional or higher competitors should only enter Championship. But really, what purpose would that serve? Nationals has non-qualifying events, and isn't this all about the spirit of skating, not winning?

/optimism :)

[manleywoman]

Yes, see the problem is that while you can say that generally most adult skaters who did not skate as kids will never be as strong as those that did, there are always exceptions to the rule. There are skaters who started as adults who do extremely well, and some skaters who were competitors as kids who just didn't retain the skills at all. So it's hard to draw the line.

And while splitting the Masters event into Intermediate/Novice and Junior/Senior has been discussed ... because it certainly would apply to Ladies Easterns and Mids...it doesn' t work in Pacifics. And there definitely are NOT enough entries to do it for the Men's Masters events.

I think if we continue to get more entries as time goes on, perhaps more divisions will be made. And while I understand the frustration of some of the complaints here, I don't think the number of entries will be able to justify splitting the events up.

What I would like to see at Nationals is a Spin event and a Jump event, so that the strong jumpers or spinners have an event that they can do and feel good about, if they are not so good at a whole program. But I don't think there's enough time at Nationals to add events.

[jazzpants]

Originally posted by manleywoman
Yes, see the problem is that while you can say that generally most adult skaters who did not skate as kids will never be as strong as those that did, there are always exceptions to the rule. There are skaters who started as adults who do extremely well, and some skaters who were competitors as kids who just didn't retain the skills at all. So it's hard to draw the line. So do I put myself as a "returning skater" or an "adult skater." In my case, I skated recreationally for two years and had a waltz jump and a one foot spin then. However, I learned everything through a book I borrowed at the library and on rental skates. No coach! No group lessons! So now, 17 years later I come back and now have two coaches and my own boots. But since I didn't have a coach or my own skates when I was a kid, do I consider myself a "returning skater" or an "adult skater", since I really didn't learn to skate as a kid but just "fooled around."

The other thing is how long it's been since you have last skated. It's one thing to quit skating to go to college and then come back to it right after you're done and have a job (about 5 years.) It's another when the last time you skated was as a 17 year old kid and now you HAVE a 17 year old kid and start skating again!!! :P :lol:

I was just thinking about it and thought at first that this is NOT fair for the returning skaters who used to compete at US NATIONALS to come back to medal at AN at the Masters level. Then I thought of something my husband said to me about business and this applies here: "Life's not fair! Just used to it!" So... *sigh* I do the best with God gave me! :D Besides, I think it's an interesting challenge to see if I could eventually do as well as the kiddie skaters that the judges wouldn't be able to tell the difference! :P

[skaternum]

Originally posted by sk8er1964
skaternum - you mention that you haven't seen any adults who started as adults taking tests. In the past six months, one of the ladies at our rink (who started skating as an adult) has taken her pre-bronze MIF's and freestyle tests. snip. We have a man who is working on the kids' track and will soon be doing the adult track, having recently passed his pre-preliminary MIF's and freestyle (he wants to do both). There are others that have successfully taken ISI tests. None of the folks I am talking about are under 30. I guess it's all in your attitude.....

No, that's not what I meant. I meant that I haven't seen any adults taking prebronze who weren't already into skating before the MITF became mandatory.

If your statement about "attitude" implies that you think I have an attitude about returning skaters, let me state again that I have nothing against returning skaters. I'm not whining about having to compete against them. (I beat them all the time. ;) ) I've already stated that I think there is room for all kinds of adult skaters. I just don't want to see USFSA assume that they're the only adult skaters around. I'm merely postulating about what I perceive to be the beginnings of a trend.

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by skaternum
No, that's not what I meant. I meant that I haven't seen any adults taking prebronze who weren't already into skating before the MITF became mandatory.

If your statement about "attitude" implies that you think I have an attitude about returning skaters, let me state again that I have nothing against returning skaters. I'm not whining about having to compete against them. (I beat them all the time. ;) ) I've already stated that I think there is room for all kinds of adult skaters. I just don't want to see USFSA assume that they're the only adult skaters around. I'm merely postulating about what I perceive to be the beginnings of a trend.

Two of the three skaters (the ones doing USFSA tests) I mentioned all started skating and/or testing after the MIF's became a requirement. The lady started about a year ago, and the man, while skating for a few years, never tested until after the MIF's started.

As for the attitude comment, what I meant is that these skaters have the right attitude about the MIF's, even if they can be time consuming and/or a pain to have to do. They want to improve themselves and their skating. I didn't mean it as a slam on you, and I'm sorry that it looked that way. :?? :(

[skaternum]

Originally posted by sk8er1964
Two of the three skaters (the ones doing USFSA tests) I mentioned all started skating and/or testing after the MIF's became a requirement.

That's reassuring. I don't want to see the number of adults entering the lower levels drop off because of the MITF requirements. Hopefully it's just a temporary slump around here. I think even our skate school numbers have dropped off.

I didn't mean it as a slam on you, and I'm sorry that it looked that way. :?? :(

I see. Sorry! Typing and reading is never as clear as speaking and hearing.

[garyc254]

Originally posted by Mel On Ice
The best solution for us new to the sport is to keep working on our skills and seek the competitive level that is right for us.

Which is exactly why my girlfriend (on Mel's synchro team) won't waste her money going to another USFSA synchro competition. ISI offers the best bet for recreational adult skaters.

As a skater that started as an adult at age 47, I see no reason for me to attempt to compete at anything other than a local event. Hence, I see no reason to put myself through the rigors of testing. If I were, ISI recreational skating would be more to my taste than the USFSA program. I'm skating for fun, not to go to the Olympics.

[flo]

Hi,
This has been an increasingly important topic as the rules in "adult skating" have changed. I started skating a bit before the Adult skating program was first conceived. It was primarily developed to provide a program for skaters who began skating as adults. There was also an interest to provide a venue for returning kids to continue or resume skating. The original thinking was that the returning skaters who competed or tested as kids would be in the masters events, and the aduts in the adult events. At this time there was no idea how many skaters would be interested, or for that matter how many there were that had skated as kids but never tested. The thought was that 150 skaters would show up for the first AN. There were 600. Since then the rules and the program have changed greatly The entry and testing requirements have become more time consuming,difficult and restrictive, which has favored the returning skaters who did not test at all or high enough to be in the masters events. Having competed at all the adult nationals, I have seen that the make up of the skaters in the events since the first AN has changed significantly. Some of this is to be expected as we all progress, but much of the change has been due to the increasing numbers of returning skaters entering the adult events.
The changes have been difficult for those of us starting with the program as adults, but also for many of the returning skaters who may have tested but now must fit into levels beyond their present skills. I don't believe that the USFSA has a grasp of what an adult skater is, or is not. Or perhaps they do, and see the only viable and acceptable older skaters are the returning skaters. It's still very much like insisting that a woman will fit into a larger size of a kids dress, rather than making the dress from a woman's pattern to fit an adult body.
I also find it interesting that the skating magazine primarily covers the masters events at AN, and not the adult events! Also, the last time there was a comprehensive survey of the skaters at AN to find out who the skaters were and what they wanted in an adult program was the 1996 Adult Nationals. If anyone has any thoughts, please contact the adult chair, Maggie Harding.

[jenlyon60]

Another thought...

The MIF requirement is only in its second season. I wouldn't expect to see very many "started as an adult" skaters who started within the past year to 18 months testing PreBronze yet. Perhaps a few, who quickly acquired AOSS, and had access to plenty of training sessions...but not very many.

In the ice-dancing side of the house, the "Adult" track has been around for years (with just the age changing downwards every so often). I've seen quite a few "started as an adult" skaters who have successfully made it through their Pre-Golds and even their Golds...and even a few who have done it standard track.

OTOH, I could tell a definitely improvement in the quality of the basic skating at the Pre-Bronze and Bronze events at the Ashburn competition.

But then I'm weird...I enjoy MIF and I enjoy puttering around with figures on empty ice.

[pennybeagle]

After reading all of these posts, I am now confused as to what category I belong to...

I began skating in college at the age of 20 (during my sophomore year). I skated for 9 months during the school year through the college's Phys Ed program, and actually managed to pass my Pre-Preliminary moves at the end of the school year (I think I skated 2 hours a day, 6 days a week, though)

Then, I spent my junior year abroad. During my senior year, I skated off and on due to other commitments (such as senior theses and recitals, etc). I did, however, pass my Pre-preliminary freestyle test and took but failed my Preliminary moves test.

Then, I lived abroad again until I was 26. I came back to skating first as a hobby, and then realized that I could compete and test on the Adult track. I am now a Bronze-level skater who hopes to move up to the Silver level once I find a back camel and an axel.

Technically, wouldn't I be a "continuing" skater, then? But since I really skated a total of perhaps 15 months when I was 20 and 22 years old, is that the same as a person who "skated as a child?"

[flo]

Hi Penny,
The distinctions between returning skater and adult are pretty arbitrary! If you started at two and tested and all, most would probably consider you a "returning skater". You started when you were much more with the body of an adult than a kid. Before the young adult events were in place, it was difficult for skaters who began skating in that age group. At one local event, a friend of mine would always have to enter the events with the kids, and then be placed by the referee into the adult events. She was welcomed by the skaters in the adult event, and is now like yourself old enough to enter as an adult. Whatever you want to consider yourself, good luck with silver. Also, just a suggestion, but you don't really have to wait for your axel to move up. I placed at AN without an axel.

[KJD]

Penny,
I hear you on the "which category am I". Mine is almost as complicated. I lived in Canada as a kid and took skating lessons in rental skates once a week or every other week for 2-3 months in the winter for I think 2 years. We skated recreationally in homemade backyard rinks (my dad and brother shot pucks at me in the net :roll: ). I think I passed one or two of what must have been the equivalent of basic skills test - I was learning backwards and forward edges on the line when I quit. I could almost do a spiral and never really learned a jump or spin - other than a bunny hop.

I started skating at 36 as an adult. I am now 40. I have an axel and a double sal. So I have no idea if I would be a returning skater or not. I certainly don't feel like one. We don't have many adults in my area, but the one or two that I occasionally see who don't compete but just come skate to fool around that are returning skaters are really, really good. So......... its really hard to determine I guess.

[mikawendy]

Originally posted by skaternum
That's reassuring. I don't want to see the number of adults entering the lower levels drop off because of the MITF requirements. Hopefully it's just a temporary slump around here. I think even our skate school numbers have dropped off. [/QUOTE]

I for one (once my 3 turns are ready for the pre-bronze test) will be entering the test stream--and I started skating after the MITF requirements were changed. In my area, there seem to be a number of adults who are planning on testing and who started skating after the change in requirements. (You'll know us by the tearing of hair as we struggle through our alternating 3s and, later, our power 3s! :D )

I've noticed the enrollment fluctuate at the rink I take group lessons from. Some class sessions are crowded and others seem *very* empty, especially after some of the group freestyle students begin taking private lessons only. (Winter Olympic years do seem get everyone coming out in droves...)

[FSWer]

In my opinion even though not a skater myself, I think what the USFSU. must really go by for adult is age. Because I went to a Adult Championships a few years ago and one skater I saw and talked to looked like an 18 year old. Which is when you usually first become an Adult. Though I could be wrong on her age though. As for Synchro. I'm not really sure how the age works.

[jp1andOnly]

I look years younger than I am. Some skater at the rink I train at thought I was only maybe 20 or 21. I'm 27! I get carded all the time a the liqour store and at bars.

Jsut be careful you dont assume people's ages without asking them.

[Andie]

Originally posted by jp1andOnly
I look years younger than I am. Some skater at the rink I train at thought I was only maybe 20 or 21. I'm 27! I get carded all the time a the liqour store and at bars.

Jsut be careful you dont assume people's ages without asking them.

I know what you mean. I will be 19 in two or three weeks, but most think seem to think I look only 15. I wish they would stop assuming I'm that young. Sometimes it drives me crazy, but hopefully when I'm a lot older I'll still look younger. Doesn't every older person want to look younger nowadays?

[Isk8NYC]

Originally posted by skateflo
ISI is not prevalent here in the Northeast having been the founding area of the USFS.

I agree with you - ISI is very weak in certain areas of the country. I skated ISI in New Jersey as a young adult before "retiring" to teach. I have to say that I loved it. I made friends, had a lot of fun, and entered tons of competitions. If you lost or blew a competition, it wasn't a big deal because there was another competition the following month. The "Rec League" attitude was terrific and really helped skaters develop good sportsmanship. The NJ ISI competitions still exist, they're just not as noticed because Basic Skills and Adult competitions in USFSA have taken away some of their skaters.

When I competed, USFSA didn't have adult events, adults skated against little kids. Every gold medal was awarded carefully since it determined who could progress up the ladder to the next level of competition. However, there are also the college-age young adults who are "lost" in the system. Unless they're terrific skaters, they don't do well in the regular USFSA competitions. Yet, they're not old enough to compete in the Adult competitions.

(Sigh) The world is not perfect yet. I have to hand it to the adults who take up skating for the first time. It takes a lot more courage and persistence than starting as a child. Plus, you have to pay for your own lessons!

[skateflo]

Even though I have been skating now for 11 years and started at age 46, I still dream of having skating clubs and ice time just for adults who truly learned to skate after age 35....it's just a dream so don't bash me please. Of course, my ultimate dream would be my very own practice rink.....

I don't test or compete - I've witnessed true unfairness - as I just don't have the personality to deal with the stress. I am just enjoying my own skating and the ability to do a variety of skating elements and personal programs to music for practice. I wish I could take early retirement and skate in the mornings with the other adults I see when I am on vacation from work.....such is life.

I do understand the feelings of those who dabbled with skating in their youth and question how they would be categorized - adult or returning. There is no easy answer. I can only say that those who did have the experience seem to have a slight edge in learning. I imagine it might be the same for those who had a bicycle as a child and those that did not.....the brain stores every experience.

Perhaps if there were active ISI clubs around here, I might feel differently. I do commend all those who worked so hard to bring adult skating back into focus within the USFS and all those adults who participate and enjoy the experience. And they are trying to find things to bridge the gap between 18 and 25. But remember it is a business and a primary focus is to make money. I'm sure the adults have greatly added to their funds. Sadly, there are still judges who perceive adults as unnecessary, they should just 'have fun' period, or if they must skate, just do dance......on the other hand I have heard of some wonderful clubs that are very supportive of adults and I applaud them - they are just not in my area.