Adult Sectionals: I'm so bitter!

[manleywoman]

I just found out last night that the inequity of the regions does not affect only the under 25 crowd. Here's the breakdown of the number of ladies competing at the Championship Masters Level at the upcoming Adult Sectionals:

Easterns: 17 ladies

Mids: 15 ladies

and Pacifics? FIVE

That's right. Five. And the top four in each region get to go.

I'm so bitter...I have to beat 13 good ladies to make it. Next year I'm joining a west coast club! :twisted:

On the one hand, I'm thrilled that the numbers for Adult skating are increasing, since Adult Easterns and Mids have been steadily growing in number every year, but Pacifics has actually decreased! It's great for Adult skating in the long run. But I'm sad for myself and my fellow competitors who have been in Adult Nationals a long time (7+ years for me!) and who have been steadily improving, who work so hard to try to make the Championships just once.

Oh well. If I do make top 4, I'll just have more to celebrate about I guess.
;)

[dcden]

Yeah, it seems the Easterns events have all had increased numbers over last year. There are 6 master men (4 last year) and 9 gold men (5 last year, with one who could not make it to AN even though he qualified). Not as bad as for the ladies, but now unless there are a rash of withdrawals, qualifying for AN is not trivial for the Eastern men this year.

Again, contrast with other sections: in Mids, 3 master men & 2 gold men. How _is_ the real estate in the Chicago area anyway? ;) Pacifics for some reason also have a low turnout of men, and they usually have the most master & gold men of all three sections.

[jazzpants]

FIVE WOMEN in Pacific Coast Sectional!?!?!?!? 8O 8O 8O I'm surprised! There's usually so many women from the All Years FSC alone!?!?! :P

Only 3 Master's Men in Midwestern this year? Can anyone find out how many men in the Pacific Coast Men? (You know where I'm getting at, dcden...) ;) (I personally can think of 2, possibly 3 men in the Pacific Coast myself.)

Originally posted by dcden
Again, contrast with other sections: in Mids, 3 master men & 2 gold men. How _is_ the real estate in the Chicago area anyway? ;) Pacifics for some reason also have a low turnout of men, and they usually have the most master & gold men of all three sections. And you don't have to move to Chicago to be in the skating club, dcden! If you wanna move up...you'll just have to sign up for the club in that regional and be content skating with a different group at Sectionals. ;) :P

[mskater]

Ugh! So much for hoping that there would only be 4 Masters Men including myself at Easterns. This will be my first year competing and I was really wishing for a "free" ride to Nationals...oh well:]

[mskater]

Btw, where is all of this information coming from? Is the schedule out already?

[mary]

Originally posted by manleywoman
I just found out last night that the inequity of the regions does not affect only the under 25 crowd. Here's the breakdown of the number of ladies competing at the Championship Masters Level at the upcoming Adult Sectionals:

Easterns: 17 ladies

Mids: 15 ladies

and Pacifics? FIVE

That's right. Five. And the top four in each region get to go.


;)

On the other hand, would you want to be that 5th place skater from the Pacific region who does not get to go? How bad will that skater feel?

[dcden]

Actually I'd rather be 5th out of 5, because sometimes someone in the top 4 withdraws before the event... not often, but it happens.

[manleywoman]

Yes, actually it happened to me last time ANs was in Lake Placid: i was 5th at Sectionals and the winner of my section tore a hamstring and I got to skate. (she was a friend of mine too so I felt really bad for her) So it can happen.

[Black Sheep]

Anyone know how many skaters for Midwestern Gold Ladies? I'm guessing about 20(!). It makes me wonder, how come they don't have elimination rounds with so many skaters?

By the by, I'm actually skipping my rink's annual Ice Theatre show to go to Mids. this year (they just had to fall on the same weekend!). A lot of people are disappointed that I'm not in this year's show. I have worked hard all year to do well at Mids. and Nats., but will missing the show really be worth it? :roll:

[jazzpants]

Originally posted by mary
On the other hand, would you want to be that 5th place skater from the Pacific region who does not get to go? How bad will that skater feel? It actually happened last year at Pacifica Coast Sectionals. Nick Chou had an off night and ended up in 5th place. Someone dropped out and he skated as an alternate at Nationals and WON the Championship Gold Men!!! 8O (Of course, being that he's a friend of mine and knowing how wonderful his skating is, I was REALLY HAPPY for him!) :mrgreen:

[vesperholly]

Does the USFSA apply "fill-up" rules to Adult Nationals? If there are only 2 Masters men in Mids and 6 in Easterns, I think all should go. It's not really fair for the 5th and 6th place finishers.

[manleywoman]

Currently I beleive fill-up rules don't apply. Huge bummer for the men. (doesn't affect the women in any region, I don't think)

[tidesong]

Thats quite an imbalance there... lucky we don't have quailfiers yet but it would be good when that day comes... which means more skaters here... heres to top four for you :)

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by Black Sheep
By the by, I'm actually skipping my rink's annual Ice Theatre show to go to Mids. this year (they just had to fall on the same weekend!). A lot of people are disappointed that I'm not in this year's show. I have worked hard all year to do well at Mids. and Nats., but will missing the show really be worth it? :roll:

Yep - because you'll be skating in the same event as me! :D (I had to withdraw from last year's event due to injury, so I am really looking forward to this years.)

You know, I wonder if attendance is down on the Pacific coast because AN is on the other side of the country - travel expenses might be out of reach for some? Just guessing.

[Black Sheep]

I'm bumping this up because I still don't know how many Gold Ladies there are for Championship Adult Mids. I'm afraid to ask Joyce @ Brooklyn FSC because I want to know, but I don't want to know, if you know what I mean....

[miss cleo]

Black Sheep!

Who cares how many ladies are there. The most important person there will be YOU as far as your friends and family are concerned. Focus on you and your goals for this competition and forget the rest. You won't remember the other skaters a year from now, but you will remember how skate. Make it a good one.

PS - take extra tapes/cds

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by miss cleo
PS - take extra tapes/cds

Amen! ;)

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by Black Sheep
I'm bumping this up because I still don't know how many Gold Ladies there are for Championship Adult Mids. I'm afraid to ask Joyce @ Brooklyn FSC because I want to know, but I don't want to know, if you know what I mean....

Hi Black Sheep. I can guarantee that there are at least two - you and me! :D

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by manleywoman
I But I'm sad for myself and my fellow competitors who have been in Adult Nationals a long time (7+ years for me!) and who have been steadily improving, who work so hard to try to make the Championships just once.

You actually won the Championships one year, so I have no sympathy. Ha! Ha! :twisted:

[vesperholly]

But I think manleywoman won Championship Gold, and she is talking about Championship Masters. Quite a different set of competitors! All very good, too. :)

Anyone know if they are going to combine any of the Young Adult events at Easterns? I am scared because last year they combined Silver and Gold, rather than Silver and Bronze, and I just "moved up" to Silver this year. I don't have an axel or any doubles. The girls in Gold last year were really good!

[manleywoman]

Nor should you, since I'm not asking for any! :) True, I won Gold once, for which I'm thrilled. Especially since I started at the bottom of Gold for many years and worked hard to get to get a medal.

I was actually speaking more about the inequity of the regions. I have lots of east coast friends who would love to just be in the Championship event once who are bummed about having to compete against so many others while Pacifics is so much easier. I've gone once to the Championship Masters event, so at least I can say that. But I feel for my other east coast friends who are getting older (though better!) who would like to make it. They're all joking too about switching to west coast clubs!

Personally, I've been skating well lately, so I'm just going to go out there and do what I can do with a smile, and hope it's enough. But I'll be happy when it over and I can get a drink in my hand!

[flo]

Hi,
I guess it's for this reason that I think it's bizzare to have the gold event and then a gold championship event. In the majority of the gold and gold championships, it's the same people competing. Because of the differences in numbers in the regions the "best" skaters are not always the ones in the championship gold event.
With the gold event at AN, everyone competes to qualify, and thus there's often a truer representation of the top skaters. Of course I realize that this can also happen in the open event if there are several flights and depending on what skaters are in what flight - but there is a lower probabilty of this as there are more skaters in the open event (and the mix of the groups is not geographical but random).
I know that this is patterned after the standard track, and because of the greater number of skaters this method is necessary and more successful at bringing the "top" skaters. But again we are not "standard" skaters - we're adults. Just based on the stats and probability alone I don't think the numbers are great enough or the regional distribution equitable enough for the championship event. For me it would be more meaningful to go to nationals and compete against the entire field.
So, bla,bla bla for this reason, I tend to go to the gold events and skip the championship gold event.

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by flo
Hi,
I guess it's for this reason that I think it's bizzare to have the gold event and then a gold championship event. In the majority of the gold and gold championships, it's the same people competing. Because of the differences in numbers in the regions the "best" skaters are not always the ones in the championship gold event.
With the gold event at AN, everyone competes to qualify, and thus there's often a truer representation of the top skaters. .....

True, but the open events are seperated by age, so as we get older (ie a 3 or 4, for example), we may not be as competitive as we once were against 1's and 2's. So for that reason, the championship event makes sense to me.

What I'd like to see, though, is a rule saying that if you qualified for the championship event you cannot compete in the open event (the USFSA would refund your open event entry fee). Theoretically, if you are one of the top four finishers in your region, then you are skating at a higher level than someone entering an open event. You could see it in Gold II last year - out of the top eight skaters, five of them had skated in the championship event. (Nobody below 8th had). Without them in the open event, it would have been much more competitve for the other skaters (although the winner was not in the championship event).

Anyway, food for thought......

[flo]

Skater1964, I agree with what you said, "Theoretically, if you are one of the top four finishers in your region, then you are skating at a higher level than someone entering an open event", but for the standard track and not in the adult events. In reality because of the inequity of the number of skaters in the regions this is not the case. I think that the better skaters do compete in both events. If 5 of the 8 top Gold II skaters were in the championship event, then we don't need two gold events.

[Stormy]

Anyone competing Silver I? My first year as a non Young Adult, so I am a little nervous, expecially without an axel. I'm just hoping to skate a clean program. :)

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by flo
Skater1964, I agree with what you said, "Theoretically, if you are one of the top four finishers in your region, then you are skating at a higher level than someone entering an open event", but for the standard track and not in the adult events. In reality because of the inequity of the number of skaters in the regions this is not the case. I think that the better skaters do compete in both events. If 5 of the 8 top Gold II skaters were in the championship event, then we don't need two gold events.

I do think that there should be a championship round - I think it is a valid event for adults, and will see more participation as time goes on. Actually, I don't know why there isn't a championship round at silver - there's certainly enough entries at that level, and you could consider it the same as kid Intermediate at their Nats.

I just would like to see more possibilities to medal for those of us who don't make the gold championship rounds. Kids who skate qualifying rounds don't skate in the open events - why can adults? As far as the structure of qualifying to non-qualifying events, I don't see much of a difference between kids and adults (except what I mentioned above) since kids have inequities in their regions too (although the USFSA has addressed them...)

originally posted by Stormy

Anyone competing Silver I? My first year as a non Young Adult, so I am a little nervous, expecially without an axel. I'm just hoping to skate a clean program.

I don't know any Silver I's, but I'm sure you will be fine. Just go out there and have fun. What section are you competing in?

[Michigansk8er]

Originally posted by sk8er1964
True, but the open events are seperated by age, so as we get older (ie a 3 or 4, for example), we may not be as competitive as we once were against 1's and 2's. So for that reason, the championship event makes sense to me.

What I'd like to see, though, is a rule saying that if you qualified for the championship event you cannot compete in the open event (the USFSA would refund your open event entry fee). Theoretically, if you are one of the top four finishers in your region, then you are skating at a higher level than someone entering an open event. You could see it in Gold II last year - out of the top eight skaters, five of them had skated in the championship event. (Nobody below 8th had). Without them in the open event, it would have been much more competitve for the other skaters (although the winner was not in the championship event).



I totally agree. It only seems fair. I wonder how one goes about getting something like this considered for a rule change? I'd support it.

[flo]

Hi,
I guess I'm just looking at this from a long range view. With the overall increase in numbers over the 10 years of Adult Nationals came an increasing strain and difficulty to host the event. This, in combination with other factors resulted in the elimination of final rounds of interpretive skating, and to some extent figures. I guess I'm thinking that I would rather see the Adult Nationals put effort into the existing (or once existing) events rather than duplicate events like the championship rounds. If the numbers do grow, then the championship rounds will work as they should and be justified, and not just be a repeat of the open events. I'm just not convinced that they are with the present participation.

[dcden]

I looked over the results from last year's Adult Nationals to see how sk8r1964's suggestion would affect the other gold/masters open events. While it would be helpful to look at more than just one year's AN, the conclusion I came to is that the rule suggestion has merit re the Gold II Ladies event, but the argument is not as strong when you look at the effect on the other gold/masters open events. While the Gold II Ladies event had 5 women who were also in championship, the other gold ladies events were hardly affected. Gold Ladies III and IV had no entries who were also in Championship, and class I had only one.

For Master Ladies events, there was also little crossover from the champonship to open events. Most of those events had no crossover at all; those that did only had one or two skaters also in the championship event. It sounds like the non-championship gold II ladies just happened to have bad luck of the draw in being in an event with many championship skaters.

For the men's events, a different problem arises if you were to institute the "championship or open but not both" rule. For the Gold I, Gold III, and Novice I & II events, eliminating the championship skaters would have left only one skater in each open event, and the event would not have been held at all! Gold II would have gone from six to two skaters. I did happen to look at the effect on the 2002 events, and it's even worse -- ALL of the men's open events would have been cancelled since there would have been 0 or 1 skater left in each open event.

Another problem with this rule is that it means less $$$ in entry fees going to the LOC or USFSA or whomever. I'm sure that the powers that be would want to encourage as many entries as possible in each event, especially if it means the difference between holding the event at all or not.

[Stormy]

Originally posted by vesperholly
But I think manleywoman won Championship Gold, and she is talking about Championship Masters. Quite a different set of competitors! All very good, too. :)

Anyone know if they are going to combine any of the Young Adult events at Easterns? I am scared because last year they combined Silver and Gold, rather than Silver and Bronze, and I just "moved up" to Silver this year. I don't have an axel or any doubles. The girls in Gold last year were really good!

4 YA Silver ladies this year, wow! Nice to see the YA events (veeeery slooowly) growing. :) Maybe they will put the one YA Gold lady into YA Silver?

EIGHTEEN Masters Ladies and sixteen Gold Ladies in the Championship Rounds. Wow, wow, wow. Plus now I know who the two new ones into Masters that manleywoman mentioned in another forum are. One might have triples, she was a former New England senior ladies competitor and an alternate to Easterns a few years back, and one competed in YA Gold last year and she was very good as well.

Well, I just can't wait for Easterns. Good times will be had, and I hope everyone has a great skate! :)

[vesperholly]

Oh oh now I'm nervous, 4 or possibly 5 YA Silver Ladies! :) But solo dance will sure be fun right CanAm?!!!

The event looks bigger this year. Yaay!!

[manleywoman]

Originally posted by Stormy
Plus now I know who the two new ones into Masters that manleywoman mentioned in another forum are. One might have triples, she was a former New England senior ladies competitor and an alternate to Easterns a few years back,

Yup, that's what makes me nervous. On the other hand, she may or may not land the jumps that day!

I figure, looking at the list, that if everyone skated on competition to the best of their ability, doing everything that they can do well, I'd be lucky to come in 7th-9th.

But as we all know, ice is slippery! And it all comes down to how everyone skates that day, those few minutes. So I have hope!

[Kristin]

Quantity doesn't necessarily mean quality. Just continue to work hard and do your best!

Kristin