How to improve a spiral?

[icenut84]

Does anyone have any good tips for how to improve your spiral? I'm thinking mainly amplitude, and also extension. Usually, my spirals have my free leg at about the height of a good camel spin, e.g.

http://www.cleanvancouver.com/skating/P3240225.JPG

I really want to develop spirals with my free leg higher though. How can you achieve this? I know it's possible because on an interview with Michelle Kwan I read a while ago, she said she used to be the most unflexible skater in the world. So apart from:

* working on flexibility, e.g. splits
* practicing them, on & off ice

what else can I do? Are there specific areas that you can strengthen (e.g. abs, legs, back?) that will help? I can't do the splits, but I can certainly get my legs further apart when trying than a camel spin position. I just can't raise my leg much higher than that when I try a spiral position, even off ice.

Also, what about extension? Sometimes when I'm doing a spiral, I check my reflection in the glass to see what my position's like. Sometimes my extension looks pretty good, sometimes it looks like I'm not stretching properly, even if it feels like I am. I'm not expecting to have the stretch of Sasha Cohen, but any tips? I used to do gymnastics so I was used to pointing my toes, but I noticed quite early on in skating that it's hard to point my toes in skates because I'm used to pointing them properly, so in skates it feels like I *can't*. Hmm. Any advice?

[garyc254]

Originally posted by icenut84
Usually, my spirals have my free leg at about the height of a good camel spin, e.g.

Feel fortunate. My free leg is at the height of a good sit spin. :lol:

[skaternum]

You need to strengthen your gluteals and your back muscles, mostly. But don't underestimate practicing them off-ice, especially if you use ankle weights! Start with a low amount of weight and increase.

[alexeiluvr]

Try wall splits and hip flexor kicks- kick back as high as you can and then forward as high as you can.

[dbny]

My coach stresses two points: warm up before stretching, and always stretch just beyond your comfort level.

I have given up on spirals for the time being and am just concentrating on the stretching. I warm up first, then do a set of spiral stretches on the boards. Being 5'3", just getting my free leg up there is stretching beyond my comfort level and is above my hip height. I then continue to skate and do another set later. I try to do 3 sets per 1.5 hr freestyle session. Each set is easier than the previous one, demonstrating that the warm ups and stretches do help. When my first set of stretches has become as comfortable as the third set is now, I will begin doing spirals again.

[NetExpress]

Wow! What a stunning costume!

Back to spiral. I think I have my free leg about the same height as yours. However, I stretch my skating leg more forward than yours. My theory is that since my back muscle is not strong enough yet to lift my leg higher, I just stretch my skating leg forward more to make my spiral look bigger.

Also I try spiral on the floor a lot. Hold a good position as long as I can. Spiral on ice is easier than spiral on the floor for me.

[triple twist]

TWO WORDS:::::

HIP FLEXERS

you neeeeed to build these muscles in order to have a high spira..its the muscles that keep your leg up there. Also have your back muscles strengthened...try some ball exercises..ask your local chirpropractor for some. THey might, or go to your local gym. Trust me it works, not to boast, but I have a pretty high spiral as it is


also you could cheat a little bit and turn your hip open when you spiral and not just kick back into a camel spin position. Try it out, let me know if you don't get it!

[alhrayth]

Originally posted by icenut84
I used to do gymnastics so I was used to pointing my toes, but I noticed quite early on in skating that it's hard to point my toes in skates because I'm used to pointing them properly, so in skates it feels like I *can't*. Hmm.

:?? I know this feeling! I used to do gymnastics too, and the first times I was told to point my toes while skating it felt just so weird... you can't compare the feeling of being barefoot/with those lovely almost non-existent shoes with a pair of skates!! LOL It always feels like I'm miles away from having my toe pointed, while I'm already doing the best that is physically possible with those boots! (things improved slightly in terms of feeling when I switched from figure to dance boots of course, but still...)

[Mrs Redboots]

Like Gary, my spiral is totally not what it ought to be! However, two things help: firstly, get your coach to stretch you, either on or off ice. Secondly, when doing a spiral, open your hip - it makes you look as though your leg is higher, even if it isn't. And make sure your leg is very straight, and do try to point your toes.

[Justine_R]

Which is your best foot?, Mine is my right but i can now do them both equally and i can nearly do a charlotte spiral.

But try to go into say your clubs fitness room if they have one andhold on to a bar and practice stretching your legs i did that and I think it really helps!

Well good luck!

[skaternum]

Warning! Stretch gently and evenly. You should stretch just beyond your comfort level. If it really hurts, you're stretching too hard, and can do more harm than good. And don't overstretch one side. Over time, this can lead to biomechanical problems, like uneven hips and pelvis, etc.

[Raine]

When doing your spiral, work on stretching your torso forward, then lowering it towards the ice. This will help raise your leg higher. Keep your head up of course!

Happy Skating,
Raine

[quarkiki2]

I just wanted to pop in and add my two cents!

I have a 140 degree spiral off ice, but on ice I can only get my leg to about shoulder height. My issue is that I'm to chicken to actually lean from my waist, so I just lift my leg as high as I can with minimal lean, LOL! My instructors know this and have set a goal for me to improve this for this lesson session. Even though my spiral meets the standards without a lean, they tell me that I'm not *really* doing a spiral without the lean...

Anyway, my advice is that in addition to stretching your hip flexors and back is to strengthen your abdominals. I think that most of the support in a spiral comes from the abs, then the back.

When I'm off ice and doing a high spiral, I am pointing BOTH of my feet. It sounds crazy, but sending energy through both legs is what makes the extension look good.

This is how I warm up for spirals:
1 I start by doing a gentle ballet cloche (swinging my leg forward and backwards to about waist height).
2 Then I do some forward grande battments (swinging my leg forward as high as I can), then back grande battments (holding on to a barre or something with both hands, swinging my leg back as high as I can. I can often hit a full split doing this.)
3 Then I do some hip flexor stretches (deep lunges with my back knee on the ground and my weight pressed forward into my front hip).
4 Then some gentle back stretches (layback position without a leg lift).
5 Then I do a "bow: stretch (think of a back catchfoot spin -- press your back left foot into your left hand as hard as you can and let the stretch tip you forward).
6 Then I use the barre as a support and lift my leg up behind me as high as I can, when I can't lift it any higher, I tip forward and press my leg up into a spiral position.

Using the boards to stretch is also a good idea. It's not effective for me when I have skates on, but when I'm 3 inches shorter without skates, it's a good stretch.

[icenut84]

Thanks for all the tips everyone - I'm gonna print them off. :)

Originally posted by NetExpress
Wow! What a stunning costume!

Back to spiral. I think I have my free leg about the same height as yours. However, I stretch my skating leg more forward than yours.

Lol - the picture isn't me! It's Michelle Kwan. I just looked for a picture of a good camel spin, to demonstrate the leg height I'm talking about (although she's doing a camel in that pic, not a spiral). I agree, it's a gorgeous dress though. It's from her LP in 01 Worlds, as far as I can tell.

Thanks again everyone :)

p.s. any other hip flexor exercises?

[1lutz2klutz]

just a note about the muscles involved- hip FLEXORS are the muscles that bend your hip toward your body, while the hip EXTENSORS are the muscles that lift your leg behind you. A spiral requires strong hip extensors and flexible hip flexors, as well as good turnout. Also, be sure to stretch the hamstrings of the skating leg to allow the proper motion of the pelvis.

[Keely]

I feel garyc254's pain. The first time I tried a spiral position off-ice (the first time ON-ice was 30 years ago and I lost a front tooth so I'm not spiral-happy) I thought, "Wow it feels like my foot is about to hit the ceiling fan!" When I looked in the mirror I was chagrined to see it was nearly dragging on the carpet. Dang.

So I have been applying myself to improving it. I find that the flexibility doesn't help if you don't have the strength for maintaining a steady position. I started doing floor spirals whenever I could (meaning when nobody was around to laugh) with a 2-3 pound ankle weight to simulate the skate, working on lifting and holding and paying attention the rest of my body position.

I try to eke my leg a fraction higher and hold, get a nice burn in the muscles. It's my butt and lower back getting stronger that are responsible for my foot now being much higher than a month ago... I don't think my flexibility is improving very fast but increasing the strength of the muscles required has helped me better use the flexibility I already have. Know what I mean?

I've seen audiences ooohing and ahhing a SashaSpiral done practically on her flat and none too steady in the past (though she's improved it a lot) just because she's doing the splits. To me, resembling a gymnast is not the primary beauty of a spiral so I hope that doesn't become more important than the edges, line and overall grace and balance. Just 2cents from someone with still not a good spiral, so worth perhaps less than that;)

[dbny]

Originally posted by Keely
I've seen audiences ooohing and ahhing a SashaSpiral done practically on her flat and none too steady in the past (though she's improved it a lot) just because she's doing the splits. To me, resembling a gymnast is not the primary beauty of a spiral so I hope that doesn't become more important than the edges, line and overall grace and balance. Just 2cents from someone with still not a good spiral, so worth perhaps less than that;)

The most beautiful and impressive spiral I've ever seen was done by my coach in a few spare minutes she had after my lesson one day. She was like a fighter jet swooping down over us, and everyone backed up to the boards as she swept by at supersonic speed, with champagne glass form, and on the most solid edges anyone could possibly want. I agree that edges, line and overall grace and balance are extremely important.

[skateflo]

In "Artistry on Ice" by Nancy Kerrigan (an excellant new technical book that I highly recommend) she has a section on Spirals with several key points:

1. Find your balance point in your skate as you gradually lift your leg in the air.
2. Remember to pull up and out of your waist with your chest lifted and your neck extended so that you can hold your balance. And most importantly you want the audience and judges to see your face!
3. Turn out from what ever body part works for you; toe, knee, or hip - not everyone can turn out from the hip even Nancy.
4. Think of keeping your weight on the back of the blade - it will help keep your weight centered in the middle of the foot, make you more comfortable, allowing for extra extension and a fuller spiral position. Practice will get your leg higher over time as you find that comfortable position and are more relaxed about focusing on raising your leg higher.
5. Key is you should feel that you are lifting up and out of your waist with your shoulders down, not hunched.

My own coach gave me the tip of pressing your free leg heel down - this focus magically gets my toe more pointed upward and my leg actually goes higher too!

Please don't try and make a full 180 degree split in the air! I think the true 'champagne glass' spiral is much more flattering. For every one seeing you coming forward, someone is seeing your rear end and I personally don't like to see a crotch shot.......

[mikawendy]

I agree with what several posters have said about not stretching to pain. My father has a stretching book that he's used for years, and the first thing it says is stretch to feel good, not to be more flexible. (You *will* wind up being more flexible from the stretch, but if you go to the point of pain, you could be stressing ligaments, which aren't meant to be stretched.)

On ice, I do forward crossovers around a hockey circle, then glide on one foot to a flat, and lower into a spiral on that flat. (The crossovers to a flat give power and speed going into the spiral.) This lets me concentrate on getting my upper body into position and my leg higher. I can also get the feeling of having my free leg close to the tracing. This is helpful because when doing inside spirals, if the free leg is too far to the inside of the tracing, the leg position isn't as pretty and the circle is very small.

Just as someone said to stretch EVENLY, you might want to practice spirals EVENLY (or you'll be like me and be fine on one side but would win a gold medal for "impression of dog at fire hydrant" :D on the other side). (Plus, in the standard track MIF tests, spirals are done on both sides in prelim and I think in novice.)

So you don't crunch your back (on or off ice), think of sending energy out the free leg's toe. When I lift my leg, I almost feel as if I'm trying to push my free foot/toe behind and away from my body. This is part of the "lift up and out" that Nancy Kerrigan talks about in her book. It's as if my foot is tracing an arc in the air and I'm trying to make that arc as large as possible instead of small, tight, and crunchy.

Off ice, I practice lowering into the spiral position by starting from a regular arabesque. Then I initiate the movement from my leg (again sending energy through my foot so that I'm not crunching my back). When I rise up, I try to keep the free leg where it is as long as I can and only move it enough to accommodate my upper body coming back up.

Another back strengthening exercise is to lie on your stomach and have someone hold your feet or hook them under a sofa that's steady. Place your arms in front of you on the floor (you can put them in ballet 5th position or just straight ahead). Suck in your stomach, pull your shoulders towards your ribs and hips (so that the shoulders don't rise up toward your ears) and raise your upper body off the ground a little bit. Be careful while you do this that you are thinking of moving your upper body away from your hips (again "up and out") rather than crunching. Also don't extend your neck so far that it is crunching backwards.

The feeling of pulling your shoulders to your ribs to your pelvis also helps keep your shoulders down (instead of up and hunched) in the spiral position on ice.(Another way to feel this shoulder position is to hug yourself, with each hand on the opposite shoulder. In this position, raise your shoulders as high as they will go, then lower them as far as they will go. Hold this lowered position and open your arms, and your shoulders will be down and connected to your core.)

A freestyle coach I know also teaches her students the back position for a spiral by having them stand on two feet on the ice, bending their knees and bending at the hips with the arms extended in front and the head looking across the ice at about the level of the boards. This way the upper body is lower than it is when just gliding in arabesque on one foot, and the head is not too low.

If you've practiced a lot of spirals on ice or have done a lot of strengthening exercises off ice, be sure to stretch afterwards--sometimes my hamstrings and external hip rotators (especially piriformis) and my back muscles feel really tight after doing a lot of spirals.

A third thing I practice for spirals (aside from stretching and strengthening) is balance. I'm much better at spirals on one foot than the other, though my flexibility is about the same on each side. So, my problem I think is balance and body alignment. I practice balancing on my nonfavored foot by just standing barefoot on that one foot in whatever position I want (backspin position, landing position, free foot near standing anke, etc.) and shutting my eyes. Sometimes I do this standing on a small pillow and have a chair (or my husband) nearby in case I stumble. A PT gave me this exercise as rehab for tendinitis in the knee--he said it would strengthen the muscles that stabilize the ankle, knee, and hip joints.

[jwrnsktr]

Another little hint. After you arch your back and get into the spiral position, you should feel like someone is pulling back on the free leg, not up! This will help with extension, believe it or not! It almost feels like your skating foot is sliding forwards. Does this make any sense to anyone?

[icedancer2]

Originally posted by jwrnsktr
Another little hint. After you arch your back and get into the spiral position, you should feel like someone is pulling back on the free leg, not up! This will help with extension, believe it or not! It almost feels like your skating foot is sliding forwards. Does this make any sense to anyone?

Yes, this makes perfect good sense. You need to have the feeling of pulling your hips back while your chest, etc., is pulling up and out. Being on the back of your blade also will help.

[vesperholly]

My favorite off-ice exercise for spirals are Supermans.

Lay on the floor on your stomach with your arms stretched in front of you and legs straight back. Arch your back and lift your chest and legs off the floor. Hold for 15 seconds, then rest for 30. Repeat 10 times. As you get better, hold the position for longer. Try to get your chest and legs as high off the floor as possible.

I am practicing the Novice Moves spirals (FI and BO both legs) and my weak-side spirals used to be pitiful. I did Supermans every other day for two weeks, and I felt a huge difference. All the spirals were so much easier.

Also, I like to stretch for spirals on my kitchen counter. It's hip-height for me and perfect to just rest my leg on.

[melanieuk]

My camel:
http://uk.geocities.com/melanie32uk/camel2.jpg
I do them off ice after I've warmed up at the gym or been out walking.

[Isk8NYC]

I have the kids practice off-ice at home by using a STURDY dining room chair or on-ice at the wall. One kid tells me that he puts his little sister on the chair to make it more sturdy. Of course, if it does tip, both kids will get hurt, but I think he meant it kept him more careful so as to NOT hurt his baby sister. LOL

Using the chair/wall as a barre, they put their hands in front of them, then bend knees, lift free leg behind them, straighten skating knee and lift more. Tighten your buttocks to keep the hip in check.

Turn the free toe "UP" to point at the ceiling. That increases the extension a few inches and looks really nice.

[Schmeck]

I practice my spirals (which are about 1" above horizontal, and I'm very proud of it, LOL!) while at work, because I have 3 wait times while the student I work with is with the school nurse. I get to "babysit" her office while she's with the student, and if anyone ever looked in her window, they'd be shaking their heads and laughing at the "old lady" on one leg, :roll: But this off ice practice has really helped, as my spiral is now a lot stronger, and maybe a tiny bit higher (2" above horizontal would be nice :D )

Schmeck, who also does not like the full split/see my crotch spirals that have become so popular lately (seems like half a dozen girls at my local club can do a semi-decent one, but not a dramatic, strong one)