waltz jump problems....don't laugh

[AstarZ41]

Ok, I've been skating for about 2 years and I'm working on sals and toe loops etc but I still can't do a good waltz jump! I even know what I do wrong - when I go to take off I don't push off the toe pick so my leg ends up being bent when I kick up and the jump is tiny. I think most of my lift comes from my arms. My coach has been trying to fix this by having me swing my leg back and forth by the boards and do bunny hops. I can do those fine but when it comes to actually doing a waltz I chicken out... :oops: Today I was working on waltz/toe combos and my toe loops were bigger than my waltz jumps. Does anyone else have the same problem? How do I make my mind let me do the jump the way I know its supposed to be done? I can already tell that I'm gonna die when it comes to learning axels... :?? ;)

[Justine_R]

To jump higher on your waltz jump, you need to actaually JUMP!! Use your arms for momentum, and bring your free-leg through. Think of jumping over a box (you bring your fre leg through, not around).

Hope this helps!

[Debbie S]

You're probably already doing this, but be sure to bend the leg you're jumping off of. The lift should really come from your takeoff leg, and your arms are supposed to be working with your leg to create the momentum, as Justine said. My problem has been that I'm throwing my arms too far away from my body and not really using the leg. One of my freestyle group lesson instructors told me that the arms should remain close to your body and only assist your motion, not create it.

My coach and I worked this week on adding more height to my waltz jump and salchow. She had me first stand at the boards and practice jumping with my free leg almost going out to a split position (well, not quite! :)) Then she had me try them from crossovers. It's basically a joint effort between your takeoff leg and your free leg that makes you go up and out. Does that make any sense? I would try it facing the boards, with your left hand on the ledge (assuming you jump CCW) and just practice bending your takeoff leg and swinging your free leg up as if you were almost going to do a split, to get the feel of it.

You could also have your coach work with you on it in the harness, which would help you get a sense of how the jump is supposed to feel. Good luck! I've been landing the waltz jump for a year and a half, and it's still a work in progress.

[AstarZ41]

Oookay, I think my waltz jump has completely gone on vacation! ;)

Thanks so much for your advice guys, I'll try that next week when I can do at least something resembling a waltz. :lol: I tryed to work on them today but it was just *not happening* ....so instead I did toe/toe/toe combos. :)

[flippet]

Have you tried practicing waltz jumps off-ice? Try that, using all the tips your coach gives you, and tips from here (really use that take-off leg, and really 'step up' with the free leg). It feels a bit 'safer' than just going all-out on the ice. Just remember to 'hop' the landing, so you don't twist a knee. You can even work on getting almost a 'split leap' position in the air--if you see elite skaters warming up, and they toss a waltz jump in there before the multi-rotation jumps, that's nearly the position they get.

[AstarZ41]

Yep I do practice my jumps off ice, and on the floor my waltz is much better. I keep my swinging leg straight and I push off my left leg to take off. The problems start when I get on the ice...it's like a have a mental block against hitting that toe pick because that's how you can often fall. I don't feel in control so I often bail out of it and just do a little hop. It's much easier for me to take off backwards because I can control my speed and balance...and it's easy to stop just in case. I did a bunch of bunny hops today since they have the same toe pick idea, but even then once I start going fast I get kinda freaked out. :lol:

[quarkiki2]

Hey -- you're still doing better than I am, LOL! I can't get off the ground at all, but I do a lovely "pretend" waltz jump 3-turn instead.

I can do stunning waltz jumps off-ice, even in skates off-ice. High, straight and secure. But nowhere near the ice...

One of the instructors at my rink has us practice getting in the air by jumping onto the benches at the rink. You kick through and have to land correctly on the bench. If you think about it, you're getting at least 18 inches in the air to get up there. Plus whatever other spring you get. We even practiced geting into a backspin after the landing and hopping around in backspin position up there, too. If I jumped like that for real I'd have a triple axel, hee hee!!

Funny thing was, this was after I'd only been skating a couple of months and was nowhere to actually learning the jumps. But the instructor did complement my height and quick rotation -- which is pretty funny since I'm not a teeny tiny person, LOL! But I remember in ballet class I did jump pretty high compared to others. Now why can't I do it on the ice???

[flippet]

Originally posted by AstarZ41
The problems start when I get on the ice...it's like a have a mental block against hitting that toe pick because that's how you can often fall.

Well, you can fall if you hit the pick while going forwards if you're still going forwards. For example, just forward stroking--your momentum is still going forwards, so it's easy to trip. BUT---with a waltz jump, your momemtum will shift to going backwards, so you won't fall just by working with the pick. Just before you jump, your skating foot basically comes to a 'stop', so you can jump 'off' the pick. Your forward momentum stops then shifts (very rapidly, granted).

Given that information, what it sounds like to me is that you're not comitted to the directional transfer. You're 'blocking' or resisting at the point where you need to turn your body. Because you're starting out going forward, your body isn't 'getting' that it needs to turn around, and it wants to keep going forwards. That's the problem with a forward jump--you can see where you're going, and it's hard to allow your body to accept switching to not seeing where you're going. (If you start out 'blind', somehow it's easier--not quite the same 'fear' factor.)

This may sound strange, but for me, the relaxation to allow the directional change occurs in the back, right between the shoulder blades. If you can keep it relaxed there, things get better. Also, think like there's a string attached to your back right there, and as soon as you jump, someone in front of you 'pulls' that string, so you automatically turn and glide as if being 'pulled' by it.

I hope that makes sense. Eventually it all becomes second nature, and it gets easier the less you 'think' about it.

[Raine]

This tip has helped me (when I remember to use it): think of pressing your toe pick into the ice before take off. This will help you get better extension of your takeoff leg and more extension of your free leg as it kicks into the air.

Happy Skating,
Raine

[AstarZ41]

Today my coach noticed that I don't take off of a good outside edge. So I worked a bit on fixing that and once I started getting a better outside edge my toepick hit the ice with out me even thinking about it and my waltz jumps got a bit better! I'll work on it some more tomorrow (I was feeling kinda sick today so I stopped jumping for the rest of the lesson) I think that might have been my problem! I hope this is gonna fix my waltz :)

[twokidsskatemom]

my dd is working on hers, and has really gotten better by doing them off ice first and doing better bunny hops.She is going arond the house right now doing them.
I know it will take awhile for them to be perfect, just practice practice practice !!!!

[Mrs Redboots]

What finally got my 3-jump (as waltz jumps are called in this country) off the ice was an axel exercise my coach gave his advanced students - and couldn't do himself until he'd tried about 4 times, which made us all laugh. You wound up on the right back edge as usual, then stepped to the LFO edge - and HELD it, and only then jumped, right at the end of the edge. 3-jump for me, axels (in theory) for the better skaters. I found that helped my 3-jump no end, but I'm not sure why....

[TashaKat]

ITA with others who say practise and off-ice (it's the only jump that I've found beneficial to practise off ice .... but that's me!).

Don't forget, though, just because it's a 'lower' jump doesn't mean that it's easy to do properly or beautifully! There's a LOT of crappy waltz jumps out there!! I used to have a link to a great waltz jump .... but I can't find it :(

Good luck


x

[montanarose]

Originally posted by twokidsskatemom
my dd is working on hers, and has really gotten better by doing them off ice first and doing better bunny hops.

This is not the first time I've heard or been told that perfecting one's bunny hop will lead to a better waltz jump, but I just don't get it. What, in particular, is transferable from the bunny hop to the waltz jump?

Ellen, who hates bunny hops, in case you couldn't guess!

[Keely]

Originally posted by TashaKat
I used to have a link to a great waltz jump .... but I can't find it :(

One here of Scott Hamilton:
http://www.iceskate.net/term_jump.html

[flippet]

Originally posted by montanarose
This is not the first time I've heard or been told that perfecting one's bunny hop will lead to a better waltz jump, but I just don't get it. What, in particular, is transferable from the bunny hop to the waltz jump?

Ellen, who hates bunny hops, in case you couldn't guess!

I would guess that the free leg swing is a big part of it--especially since for the bunny hop, you very specifically bring the knee straight up in front of you--you can't swing it around to the side (or where would you go? :lol: ). For a waltz jump, you bring the free leg through exactly the same way--there's no swinging it around to/from the side--it goes straight through and up.

[quarkiki2]

Practicing the bunny hop gets two important things for the waltz jump: swinging the leg through and rocking forward onto your toe pick with the skating foot.

I ought to know -- my instructor made me do about a thousand bunny hops before practicing waltz jumps on Saturday morning!

[twokidsskatemom]

i never knew the reason behind it,just that she one day really got bunny hops , and i didnt think she would do a waltz jump yet.Then last week, after doing a ton of bunny hops, she did her waltz jump and so was excited !!!! it was fun to watch :} she still needs to perfect it and practice practice practice

[montanarose]

Originally posted by flippet
I would guess that the free leg swing is a big part of it . . . For a waltz jump, you bring the free leg through exactly the same way--there's no swinging it around to/from the side--it goes straight through and up.

Yes, and this is EXACTLY what terrifies me so about the waltz jump! I can't picture how to swing that free leg "straight through and up" -- one coach described it to me as kicking a football -- without catching my toe pick on the ice as I swing it straight through.

Ellen, the chicken-hearted :oops:

[skateflo]

I couldn't envision a straight leg either - so I always bent it much to my coaches dismay. She finally convinced me to think more about lifting my torso up, back straight, arms pizza rounded, and the free leg would follow as I would be up off the ice and there would be plenty of room for a straight leg....sort of like jumping over a log or the 'horse' in gymnastics. Focusing on first the deep knee and push off and then thinking about lifting my rib cage, I forgot about the free leg...what ever works.....

[dani]

Unfortunately I don't have the answer, However, I do have a fairly nice waltz jump.

KEEP WORKING ON IT!! There is not a jumping feeling to me like that of a nice huge waltz jump. It really feels like flying!

Good luck!!
Danielle