Education and Competitive Skating

[IceDanceMom NW]

For folks who have contended with the balance of education and competitive skating, when the skater is at a training center with optimal training ice in the middle of the day, what have you found successful? Have you home-schooled? Have you combined partial school with online learning? Which online learning programs are rigorous and interesting?

If your high school student is in community college, how did you negotiate entry? How does the skater maintain a social life with young people the same age?

It seems that for each skater's family, the process of entering competitive skating is like entering a very cold lake, first one toe, then the whole leg, finally you just dive in, shuddering. The costs, the disruption of normal routines, the highs, the lows, all are just unimaginable to regular folks. Still, the growth we see in our kids, the discipline and focus they gain, the increasing poise and ability to rise to challenges are all amazing.

[garyc254]

I have a friend whose daughter quit the local high school after her sophomore year and started a home school-type curricillum through a local state university. It takes some discipline for her to maintain her studies and decent grades. She does enjoy only having to concentrate on one or two subjects at a time.

Her social life isn't a problem. She found most kids in her high school to be too juvenuile for her anyway. She's made a number of friends through skating and her part time jobs, so she hasn't suffered socially.

[Elsy2]

I home schooled my daughter for 8th grade and half of 9th. Since 9th grade was high school I searched for correspondence courses at colleges and chose Indiana University. I felt the English was very beneficial, but did get boring towards the end. Other schools we looked at were the University of Nebraska, and I forget the third one now. I had the local school approve the courses we took so I was sure those credits would carry over when I sent her back to school.

Some of our skaters have been able to work out attending local school part time, and taking on line or correspondence courses at the same time.

Those who are not in high school yet use various programs like Abeka and Calvert. One girl used Seton for high school.

Socially, I never thought my daughter suffered at all. She had lots of skating friends, and friends in the neighborhood. I was happy to have been able to give her an experience few kids have. She loved training all day. Homeschooling was difficult though. It takes alot of organization and motivation to stay on track.

[babeonblades]

well since bout grade 9 i have stayed at the training facilities dorms and i have 3 tutors who come and teach me what i would be learn if i was in regular school and then they get tests and exams which i take and then my grades are assesed on what they record and what i get on exams. then that way they work aroud my sched and i get excellent teaching becaue its one on one

[skaternum]

Originally posted by babeonblades
exams. then that way they work aroud my sched and i get excellent teaching becaue its one on one

Anybody besides me see the irony here? :lol:

[IceDanceMom NW]

I must say I am not interested in the grades as much as the quality of the education. Let's not delude ourselves, if kids who skate do not end up well educated, they will not succeed as adults. They must be challenged to write well, to complete challengin courses in math and science, to be forced to think about controversial issues that will confront them as citizens.

My fundamental question is: which on line programs demand excellence and good education? Are the kids who are being home schooled learning to write in complete sentences with good spelling? Can they read Scientific American, the Economist, War and Peace? What are their SAT scores? Can they enter a four year college or university and hold their own academically?

[babeonblades]

rite now i attend mcgill university and am enrolled as a travelling student cuz i train everyday but the tutors they r trained and like often if i will goto classes that are not wen i train like at night the tutors prety much just explain everything and they will do lectures and stuff its actually better because they will show me what im doing right and wrong and in a class of 40 people thats not always possible and if i need to do a lab i wil take time out and goto the university to do them with my class

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by skaternum
Anybody besides me see the irony here? :lol:

Yes. I had the same thought. ;)

[Alexa]

Originally posted by skaternum
Anybody besides me see the irony here? :lol:

Oh, yes I do.

[arena_gal]

It's not so bad. You should see how kids write in university, the kids who did go to high school full time and who apparently have passed English to graduate.

About education and competitive skating, one of the reasons why Quebec is cleaning up in Canadian skating these days is their entire sport-etude system. Starting at grade 2 (age 7) about when kids start to get groomed for the competitive stream, they can go to school half day and skate in the daytime, and it's not just figure skating either. Some skating schools outside Quebec have similar systems in cooperation with a local school, but Quebec has an entire province wide system. Go to school with your friends, graduate with your friends and be able to skate too.

[Elsy2]

I can only say that the English 9 we took through Indiana University was way more demanding than any class she took at our local schools...
You can check out the content of classes and review learning guides for yourself.

http://scs.indiana.edu/

[oroetlaboro]

We are different from most skating families in that we got into competitive skating because we are homeschoolers, and not vice-versa. We were looking for an interesting phys. ed. class for our daughters when we moved to this area. We often wonder, "WHAT were we thinking?" I can assure you that homeschooling is an excellent educational opportunity for those who are seriously committed to it and believe it is the right option for them. I believe you'll find answers to many of your questions by starting with the Home School Legal Defense Association website: www.hslda.org. On that site you'll find information about the history of homeschooling, laws in your state, links to local homeschool support groups, etc. At the bottom of the site is a section called, "Top Issues". Many of your questions about test scores, colleges & universities are answered there. There are hundreds of web sites and resources that you can find just by doing a search online. Also check your public library. They often have several books on the topic of homeschooling. Get in touch with local homeschoolers. I could offer more info., but I have to run now.

[GoldenLady]

Originally posted by skaternum
Anybody besides me see the irony here? :lol:

My thoughts exactly! :D

[garyc254]

Originally posted by skaternum
Anybody besides me see the irony here? :lol:

I think it's called "teenspeak". :roll:

[skatepixie]

Originally posted by IceDanceMom NW
My fundamental question is: which on line programs demand excellence and good education? Are the kids who are being home schooled learning to write in complete sentences with good spelling? Can they read Scientific American, the Economist, War and Peace? What are their SAT scores? Can they enter a four year college or university and hold their own academically?

Reguarding the first two questions: students from most public schools in my area cant. Not unless they are really smart to begin with or gifted in spelling/writing/reading/exc. There is one district around here that is a long standing joke because many of the kids leave HS without being able to spell their names. At least I had that expectation placed on me from the time I could write.

BTW, I used public school until 9th, when I switched to a private catholic school. My grammar schools (K-6) were decent, and my public JR High was very good. My HS is better, but I would much rather be homeschooled or perhaps get a GED and jump right into Jr College.

[flippet]

Originally posted by skaternum
Anybody besides me see the irony here? :lol:

Sadly, yes.

IceDanceMomNW, don't let one poor example scare you off! :lol:

[emyh]

I do not competitively skate, but I hope what I say may help you. Home-school and online education is very effective, if done correctly. I have a cousin who is home-schooled and is several grades ahead of his peers. I also had another cousin who took several online courses through the UC system I believe, graduated a year early, and is trying to transfer to several Ivy league schools right now (which is reasonably within her abilities). Home-schooled and online education offer many advantages. It allows your child to move at his own pace, and is more efficient since it is mainly one-on-one education. Online education, I think, is worth it because it is usually offered through colleges and taught by qualified instructors. Most high school classrooms are usually spent trying to get the kids to listen to you first.

I'm a senior right now and I attend public high school full-time. Some high schools are well, bluntly, crap, and some offer excellent education. I wanted to compete and devote more time to skating, but my parents were quite adamant about my studies always coming first. I've had some high stress over the years trying to balance skating, studies, and a job all at the same time but it is quite manageable if you organize time efficiently (I don't have a car either, so it takes some negotiating with my mom). I'm pretty grateful for my parents' emphasis on education all in all - by the time I graduate I will have more than a few credits at most universities before having attended, and will probably qualify for sophomore standing (I took a few college level courses). There was a mutual decision that if I wanted to compete still, I would pursue it in college. I do remember, when I almost focused exclusively on skating, I virtually forgot that there was a "real world" beyond the rink. Staying in public school kept that in check for me.

If you are looking to seriously compete, I would suggest having your child attend school at least part-time if possible (maybe combined with an online course). Honestly, I would try to be realistic about my child's abilities if possible, and see if its truly worth it for you and your family (because it is a family effort, no doubt).

[Tessie]

Originally posted by skaternum
Anybody besides me see the irony here? :lol:

I do I do! But I don't think it's limited to those in athletic programs.

[skaternum]

Originally posted by Tessie
I do I do! But I don't think it's limited to those in athletic programs.

Definitely not. You see that every where. I just find it funny that someone is trying to convince us how excellent his/her education is while using some of the worst grammar, spelling, and punctuation I've seen!

[Andie]

I started homeschooling when I was in 5th grade - that was before I was ice skating. Then about 2 1/2 or 3 years ago, I enrolled in an online/distance education program called Education Direct (formerly Harcourt Learning). I'm finished with the course now, and unfortunately Physics lowered my lesson grade average a little. Physics was very hard!

Here's the Website:
www.educationdirect.com

You may or may not have seen some of their TV commercials. :lol:

[miss cleo]

At the college level, I can tell a homeschooled kid in my classes very quickly. As was pointed out, they get one on one attention and can move at their own pace. That is not the reality of higher education or the world in general. They often have poor time management skills. Taking an exam in 45 minutes or completing assignments in a timely fashion is a real challenge. Getting to campus prepared for class is a major event for some. Being in a lecture hall with many other students is a big distraction for others. Many of these kids have made their "own schedule" and have trouble accepting responsibility for being on time for class, their books or working with a group on a team project. And who can blame them?
Academically, the students are either exceptional or behind - depending on the subject matter. It is a tremendous responsibility to homeschool a child properly and include other "non-academic" skills will allow them to function effectively in society. I have had the pleasure of meeting some exceptional homeschooled students with fabulous parents but I am afraid that in not the norm.

To borrow a line from Judge Judy - "Skating fades, Dumb is forever."

[flippet]

Homeschooling success depends greatly on both the individual student, and on the 'teacher', who is usually a parent. I would have loved to have been homeschooled, and I probably would have done very well--my personality is such that individual study would have been terrific. I'm the kind of student where, if there's a 45-minute test, I'm out the door in less than 20, with one of the highest grades in the class. But, a lot would have depended on my 'teacher' as well. My mom tried to homeschool me in second grade, but she wasn't well-prepared, and was too distracted to do a good job.

Really, all education is 'self-education'--no one can do your learning for you. But others can help with the extras of learning--deadlines, study habits, resources, etc. Sometimes a parent is up to the task, sometimes they're not.

Give it a try for a year, and see how it goes. If everyone's happy and on track academically, keep with it. If not, re-evaluate, fix what needs fixing, or decide that it's just not for you. You really can't make sweeping statements regarding the success or failure of homeschooling in general, precisely because it is so individual.

[Mrs Redboots]

Whereas I, on the contrary, needed the discipline of boarding-school (yuck!) where homework was done at set times of day between certain hours, supervised for the younger children. Before I went to boarding-school, I was dreadful at doing homework!

I think home-schooling has both advantages and disadvantages - children can learn at their own pace, and do public exams early if they want and are ready, and, of course, those children who have other interests, like skating can sort out their own timetable. On the other hand, unless parents are very careful, their children don't become socialised and have trouble mixing with other children their own age, and don't know how to cope with being teased. And some children don't believe their parents know anything, anyway!

Probably the ideal for skaters, etc, is a "small school"; up to ten or so children of varying ages who are all learning together with a qualified teacher, but who can take the time they need to train at their sport, and be infinitely flexible about what is learnt when.

It is a pity that "governesses" have demised - my grandmother and her sisters were all sent away to stay with other girls in term-time, to share their governess and learn with them. They were very happy and made life-long friends - and got a better education than their mother (the father died young) could have otherwise afforded for them.

[Skatewind]

I like The Calvert School curriculum, however, I would not recommend homeschooling for any student if the sole purpose of it is to schedule ice time at the convenience of the rinks & coaches.

[twokidsskatemom]

We dont hs for icetime, here there isnt a huge difference.We do hs as we like being with our kids, and really dont see aneed for them to get along witha bunch of 5 yos.As most people say, in the real world, you deal with all people, not just people of your age.
There are colleges who love hs kids, stanford and harvard being among them.They accept 25 percent of hs kids, compared to 13 % of ps kids.
My kids are being taught and deal with people young and old every daily.They dont need school to be socializied, and we can work on not only school, but morals and values daily.
But if they want to freestyle, they go in the early am or after school, just like everyone else.
its the right choice for us.

[peaches]

Originally posted by IceDanceMom NW
For folks who have contended with the balance of education and competitive skating, when the skater is at a training center with optimal training ice in the middle of the day, what have you found successful? Have you home-schooled? Have you combined partial school with online learning? Which online learning programs are rigorous and interesting?

If your high school student is in community college, how did you negotiate entry? How does the skater maintain a social life with young people the same age?

It seems that for each skater's family, the process of entering competitive skating is like entering a very cold lake, first one toe, then the whole leg, finally you just dive in, shuddering. The costs, the disruption of normal routines, the highs, the lows, all are just unimaginable to regular folks. Still, the growth we see in our kids, the discipline and focus they gain, the increasing poise and ability to rise to challenges are all amazing.

I tried it all when I was skating, beginning with public school. They weren't too keen on the idea of me missing days for competitions, so we moved on to private school. They were a bit more forgiving, but that wasn't a good fit either. There were schools that were very generous with skaters, actors, etc., but my parents couldn't afford that *and* skating, plus they were far away from the rink, so.....I ended up home schooling 2 1/2 years of high school with the aid of a private tutor. I saw her 3 mornings a week and she made sure I was keeping up, and sent in tests to the correspondence school. I ended up getting one year ahead because I could work at my own pace, which was considerably faster than the schools were teaching. I went back to public school for my last semester and hated every second, lol. I got into a good college though, which was amazing considering that it was a time when home schooling was considered somewhat freakish.

There are no easy answers to the problem of what skaters should do about school; everyone needs to do what is the best fit for them IMO.

[oroetlaboro]

Link to a recent, brief CBS article about socialization & homeschooling: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/29/earlyshow/contributors/debbyeturner/main596669.shtml

[sk8rbean]

The main thing to keep in mind is that the range in quality of homeschool/independent study programs is enormous. I am a college freshman now but prior to my high school graduation I attended a public independent study program with the best reputation in our district. There were two other programs that I could have attended, but both were primarily composed of students who had flunked out of regular school or were just trying to get high school out of the way. The first year I attended my program it was not very difficult, but the second year a new director came in and it became at least as good as any public high school in the district. The program required students to attend one class a week per subject in which we had discussions, labs, debates, etc. In this way I made friends at school even though I only went once a week. I also was exposed to different opinions, people with different backgrounds, and kids who were in independent study for a spectrum of reasons. My experience with this was fantastic and I would recommend it.

*However*, I know several skaters who depended on skating and counted on making a career out of it, and they skated ;) through high school without learning much at all. The only people their age that they socialized with were skaters.

To work independently one must be motivated and fairly outgoing so that they can make friends and socialize outside of skating. Beyond that, it is important to choose a program correctly that will fit your needs. For example, the program I was enrolled in fed students into the highly competitive UC system, but others in my area tailored to students wishing to take the GED. Also, one program gave money for PE and this attracted skaters because they got $1,000 towards ice time. The program, though, was weak and they aren't prepared for whatever may lie ahead of them.

AND, I see the irony very clearly ;).

[twokidsskatemom]

Originally posted by sk8rbean
The main thing to keep in mind is that the range in quality of homeschool/independent study programs is enormous. I am a college freshman now but prior to my high school graduation I attended a public independent study program with the best reputation in our district. There were two other programs that I could have attended, but both were primarily composed of students who had flunked out of regular school or were just trying to get high school out of the way. The first year I attended my program it was not very difficult, but the second year a new director came in and it became at least as good as any public high school in the district. The program required students to attend one class a week per subject in which we had discussions, labs, debates, etc. In this way I made friends at school even though I only went once a week. I also was exposed to different opinions, people with different backgrounds, and kids who were in independent study for a spectrum of reasons. My experience with this was fantastic and I would recommend it.

*However*, I know several skaters who depended on skating and counted on making a career out of it, and they skated ;) through high school without learning much at all. The only people their age that they socialized with were skaters.

To work independently one must be motivated and fairly outgoing so that they can make friends and socialize outside of skating. Beyond that, it is important to choose a program correctly that will fit your needs. For example, the program I was enrolled in fed students into the highly competitive UC system, but others in my area tailored to students wishing to take the GED. Also, one program gave money for PE and this attracted skaters because they got $1,000 towards ice time. The program, though, was weak and they aren't prepared for whatever may lie ahead of them.

AND, I see the irony very clearly ;).


But independent study really isnt home schooling.Home schoolers are taught at home by a parent.Lots of parents use the same matetials the schools use.my kids socialize with kids of all ages, both at skating and othe places.hs arent independent study, there is no progam in inself. parents pick what to teach.

[sk8rbean]

I know, but many skaters (at least in the US) use independent study instead of homeschooling for whatever reason, at least in high school. I do have one question about homeschooling though: How can a parent know enough about every subject to design a high-school college prep curriculum?

[twokidsskatemom]

there are a zillon hs programs out there.They go from pre k to high school.why would you think it would be so hard?Most teachers didnt even go to school for the subject they are teaching.
Most of the kids who skate here go to ps, inclding the two from jr nationals this year.
I dont know everything about everything, but then neither do teachers or we wouldnt have such a issue with 12 graders who dont know how to read, write and do math.We will use others to help us and we will in turn, help others with things we know about.Since harvard and stanford love home school kids and take 26 percent who apply vs 13% from public schools, there must be something they like about hs.Until recently, there was no such thing as public schools.


http://www.hsu.edu/faculty/worthf/acad.html#1

[twokidsskatemom]

a small list of schools who take hs kids

http://learninfreedom.org/colleges_4_hmsc.html

Im sure there are a alot more, and all kids dont go to college. they attend other schooling.

[emyh]

Originally posted by sk8rbean
How can a parent know enough about every subject to design a high-school college prep curriculum?

From what I've seen in practice, my aunt who homeschools her son, often teaches her son what she is learning at that very moment. It's quite a full-time job. You learn as you go, I suppose.

[Mrs Redboots]

Originally posted by sk8rbean
How can a parent know enough about every subject to design a high-school college prep curriculum? In the UK we have a "National Curriculum", which is standardised and sets attainment targets for each level. It is not hard for a dedicated parent to find out what's wanted. Plus the various exam boards issue their syllabuses for public examinations (without which you do not get into university here), and again, not hard to get hold of.

A 16-year-old skater at my rink attended school until the end of compulsory schooling in year 11, but she is now studying for her A levels (university entry qualifications taken at 18) independently. It is helped by the fact that her mother is a physics teacher, so she can use the facilities at her mother's school for practical work, etc, but it is requiring a great deal of dedication and maturity on the skater's part to keep up with her year. But as her mother said, it was by way of being an experiment; if she couldn't do it, well, all that happened was that she wasted a year, and she could easily go to Sixth Form College next year, after all.