Groans of despair or gasps of delight - 14-20 July 2002

[Mrs Redboots]

My turn to kick off this week.

[b:efc3123189][color=brown:efc3123189]Groans of despair[/color:efc3123189][/b:efc3123189]: Back to reality after months of competition practice. As, apart from the occasional RIDL, we don't now have a competition until the beginning of September, and as we are weekend-only skaters for the next fortnight (except tomorrow, and I may go down to practice on Thursday or Friday evening, we'll see, but probably not), today was back to exercises. We really need to work on our partnering skills. I think the main problem is that neither of us can skate backwards very well, and neither of us has very flexible shoulders! We really need to practice this. We were made to skate round doing the Novice Foxtrot steps (just runs and swings, for those who don't know the dance) and helping each other to get into position, but it wasn't altogether satisfactory. Then we had to stand facing each other, with our hands on each other's shoulders, and do a lap of chasses like that, first with Robert going backwards and then me. That actually wasn't too bad, nor were the laps of chasses in waltz hold that followed.

But both of us will occasionally anticipate and step where we want to end up, not where we want to start off. And Robert's apt to point his shoulders where he wants to end up, even though he points his feet in the right direction. We had to work on inside swing rolls in Kilian hold, and they were also rather disastrous, and we ended up doing just one round the hockey goal, in each direction. I kept on raising my free hip instead of dropping it, which was not a good idea.....

[color=green:efc3123189][b:efc3123189]Gasps of delight:[/b:efc3123189][/color:efc3123189] Actually, very little. I was pleased with my back cross-cuts, which really are beginning to flow, but my posture deteriorates and then they go pear-shaped.

I really think I must learn not to be so negative about my skating, but it's difficult to be positive when there's so very much work to be done before I can hope to improve.

But to finish on a positive note, a skater last night who I hadn't seen for about 9 months said how impressed she'd been by our performance, and how very much we had improved! I am glad to hear it, as we still aren't desperately competitive at our level, although we have been told another 10% improvement will probably do it. Perhaps we can manage that, but I wonder if we can before September?

[jenlyon60]

I skated at the club dance session on Saturday morning. First time I've skated at that session in quite a while (I think since last October??)

Anyways, it was a good skate. Foxtrot was still "on" and nice and big, although I didn't work on it to the music. 14Step was okay. I skated a solo EW to the music! 8) 8) First time in a LONG time for a solo EW to the music. It wasn't pretty, it was small, but it was TO THE MUSIC!!!

I also did a bit of American Waltz just for fun, and I can tell all my MIF work is paying off. My checks on my 3-turns were much improved, and I was covering more ice (this not to speed).... so I am definitely a fan of MIF work (I have been working mostly on MIF so far this summer....)

The hardest thing was that the club dance session was on the NHL rink, which is about 15 feet narrower than the rink I normally skate at. I didn't realize how much I'd gotten used to the wider rink until I started to do my Foxtrot, and started, marker-wise, at the same spot I start at on the bigger rink. Ran out of ice width wise before I finished my intro and it took me 3 or 4 tries of skating the intro and tweaking location and shape to fit my standard Foxtrot intro into the narrower rink. And I wasn't skating full power!

Still... it was a fun skate.

--jsl

[Debbie S]

I'll start with the positive:

Gasps

I did two good scratch spins in practice yesterday, the first two times I tried them in the session.

My toe loop is (slowly) improving.

My waltz jump has more height.

I'm getting more speed from my back crossovers.


Groans

After my two scratch spins, every other time I tried them, I messed up. Why can I do something perfectly at the beginning of practice, and then not be able to any more? Arrgghh! To make matters worse, I started whacking my left leg again (I'm CCW). I guess my leggings protected my skin b/c I didn't see any new unsightly red marks when I got home.

I am still terrified by the salchow.

I understand intellectually what I'm supposed to be doing, but my body seems to be unable to follow my mind. :)


I had my right boot stretched and yesterday was the first time I skated in it. It does feel a little wider, but the area right across the ball still felt too tight. To make matters worse, the ankle starting rubbing. I think that was just a temporary prob though, maybe b/c I had them on for almost two hours straight? (I decided to skate the public session yesterday instead of the freestyle). There weren't that many people, except that the ice seemed to get more scratchy in less time.

[JDC1]

Practiced both Sat & Sun and have lesson tonight.

Groans - I really can't spin. :-) It gets frustrating!! I am just trying to be patient.

Gasps....- the Waltz jump is getting more and more comfortable and it's a full fledged JUMP!! Did some stroking and I got on some really deep edges on the corners and I did cross overs and didn't chicken out. Usually if I get going fast around corners I just pump but I am getting bolder and doing the crossover.

[MissIndigo]

Groans:

Everything. Was tired for lesson today and had a sore back. Couldn't get my knee straight on my camel; I just felt like everything was wimping out on me. My salchow, my best jump so far, even decided to go "sourcow" on me tonight. I've noticed when I'm tired everything becomes rushed and my body tends to stiffen and becomes its own cast.

However...

Gasp: A 20-revolution scratch spin with feet fully crossed and arms fully extended over head. I had witnesses! 8O

[jazzpants]

[b:7609e5c43d]Gasps:[/b:7609e5c43d]
So glad to be back on the ice after healing my hamstring!!!! :D :D :D

Primary coach says that the backspins is very, VERY close!!! He compares teaching backspins to me to like lighting up a BBQ with a match. You go through many, MANY matches and you almost get the BBQ to light up and then POOF, the match goes out!!! :P (Of course, the even funnier part was that my hubby was doing the BBQ'ing last night!!!) :P But anyway...I'm getting 1/4-1/2 rev. backspins still, but getting them more consistently, using the standstill method.

Primary coach thinks that my camel spin is getting close still but I just have to get that back leg up and my torso DOWN!!!

As for my sit spin, he thinks it's better because instead of doing the squat sit now I'm actually trying to do a REAL sit and get that big ol' butt of mine to go down now... (which is partially why most of my sit spin ends up being a "sit on the butt" spin! I did have one really good (according to primary coach) sit spin which I spun a couple of rev. but had to step out of it. And he got his wish of watching me fall on my butt just to work on getting that nice low sit spin too!!! Coaches are so WEIRD!!! :roll: :wink: )

[b:7609e5c43d]Groans:[/b:7609e5c43d]
My spins are the pits today!!! The reason for this is that even though my hamstring is recovered, my leg in that area is still weak. It's incredibly hard to stay on the spinning edge and not fall into that inside edge. And my calf and hamstrings are EXHAUSTED when I was done too!!!! Oui vei!!! :( The irony in all this is that is that my primary coach thinks that my spins are better. Okay, I should say certain types of spins. (See "Gasps" above.)

Cheers,
jazzpants

P.S. Did I say that I am SOOOOO HAPPY to be back on the ice again???? :D :D :D

[melanieuk]

[b:1291d809a9]Gasps[/b:1291d809a9]
Back on the ice after 8 days holiday.
I did the field moves a few times (nice unbumpy ice) - still not doing the back swing/cross things though because they are terrifying. :twisted:

All the jumps worked ok. :o
I had a goofy slip on a flip during the picking, and one wobble on the loop-loop (weight too far back, doh), but apart from that, these were fine.

The lutzes are not bad. I have better speed on them then any other jump, isn't that strange? :roll:

[b:1291d809a9]Groans[/b:1291d809a9]
I'll play it safe and say all the spins.
Who knows what happened to the parallel? It felt like I was really straining to keep the position. I couldn't get it at all in the program - and EXIT it in the right direction.

Backspins are their minging selves. :evil:

[JDC1]

Groan - MY ARMS!! Eek they have a mind of their own!! ANd why oh why do I stick my hip out whenever I am supposed to put my weight on the leg!! It's a total reflex. Was really tired after private lesson then group lesson and did miserable FI3's and BO3's felt really every day of my 37 years right about 8:40. :-)

Gasp - I actually finally controlled the beginning of the loop and was able to pop up and then land on my toe pick!! It felt great so now I know how the loop should feel before I jump. My back outside edges were reallly not bad, I was pretty happy, usually they are all over the place but they are definitely improving.

[Yazmeen]

Groans of despair: Actually, none really, and isn't that nice? 8)

Gasps of Delight: Today we worked on "going to the next level" with my jumps. Getting a longer back glide into the half lutz and positioning the upper body properly (Salute the crowd!!! Face the mirror!!!) to pick in and do it. Its still got a ways to go, but now I don't feel so much like its getting "stuck." Half flip now has "neat feet"--getting the feet closer together when bringing the free foot through. Salchow was the toughest--now that I can get it around and basically jump, we're trying for fully rotated. (I tend to land sideways, which I guess is normal when you're starting). It was tough, and I had quite a few stumbles, but I'm getting the feel of bringing the free leg through better and controlling the RBOE that finishes it--I'm trying to not continue to rotate and twist.

Ironically, with the half flip and lutz I keep reminding myself "not to do it like Sarah Hughes"--in other words, don't lean over when picking and kick the free leg up too high. Geez, it feels weird and inappropriate to use the Olympic Gold Medalist as your bad example!!! (No offense please, Sarah, I love your skating!!!!)

All in all, a good day. Next week, back to one foot spins...Lions and Tigers and One Foot Spins, OH MY!!!!!! 8O

Beth

[Mrs Redboots]

This is for yesterday; I don't normally have my lesson on a Monday, but I can't make it in tomorrow, as I have to work. Work, to misquote Oscar Wilde, is the curse of the skating classes.....

So I went on the ice at 5.45 pm, and don't come off it until nearly 8.00, with a break for resurface. My lesson was only 30 minutes of that time (actually 35), but then it was dance club.

[b:a6b05357e5][color=brown:a6b05357e5]Groans:[/color:a6b05357e5][/b:a6b05357e5] The ice was very slow by the time I got on it, and it was all HARD WORK. We just worked on basics and Dance Moves. I said, when I skated backwards, "If I put out all this effort and was going forwards, I'd be going at the speed of light; what am I doing wrong", and was told I needed to take my shoulders back with each push. That worked a treat, although I still didn't go as fast as I wanted to, but why it's under "Groans" is because could I repeat this when doing back cross-rolls and cross-strokes? You guess!

Had to leave dance club early as I had a church meeting to go to, which meant I couldn't have the 15 minutes' dancing with a pro that I'd hoped to have. Fortunately he didn't mind, and didn't ask me to pay him. And it was the last dance club of the summer; if I want to dance between now and September, it means going to another rink.

And, unless I make myself go down to the rink on Thursday, it was the last time I'll skate until next Saturday - and next week, I am not skating at all between Sunday and Sunday! :cry: :cry:

[b:a6b05357e5][color=darkblue:a6b05357e5]Gasps:[/color:a6b05357e5][/b:a6b05357e5] I have finally grasped how one ought to do a Mohawk (mine were and remain rather fudged). I am still not really able for them, but they are coming. The secret, of course, is to move your head.....

My forward cross-rolls were okay, for once, only of course he wanted deeper knee-bend. When I gave him deeper knee-bend, I was afraid he'd tell me I was toe-pushing, as it felt as though I was. But he said it didn't sound like it.

In Dance Club Robert and I did a British Waltz together, and I do believe he is beginning to be able to track! I think part of the problem was our chasses weren't coming round enough, and now we are on the way to correcting that, it is solving the other problem. My 3-turns at speed are still a disgrace to the name of skating, though, but at least I do them with a partner!

Heigh ho.... of course, I could just nip down to the rink now for half an hour - I do have to go to the supermarket..... well, perhaps not.

[garyc254]

[quote:4d0254b8bc="Mrs Redboots"]I really think I must learn not to be so negative about my skating, but it's difficult to be positive when there's so very much work to be done before I can hope to improve. [/quote:4d0254b8bc]

"The truly great athletes aren't just exceptional performers; they also are exceptionally positive. They make no excuses, take the blame when the results don't meet expectations, and congratulate their teammates on every shining performance."
-- Eric Flaim, four-time U.S. Olympian, speed skating/short track

[garyc254]

[quote:5bd27bac52="jazzpants"]So glad to be back on the ice after healing my hamstring!!!! :D :D :D
[/quote:5bd27bac52]


Hey Jazz!!! Glad to hear you're back out there with us!!!

Don't push too hard until you've healed completely and restrengthened the muscles.

[melanieuk]

The backspin continues to cause grief, but I practised 100s today, and some have made an improvement. 8)

I'm still struggling to keep the parallel - biggest problem is getting the entry right.

No chance at programme - I cannot do it/concentrate when there are so many (fast), sometimes unyeilding skaters on the ice.
Never mind, I'm doing the elements individually for now.

The jumps, except the flip-toeloop :evil: are ok.

[quarkiki2]

Adult Alpha, Lesson 8

Gasps: I passed my Alpha test today with no repeated elements -- got everything right on the first try! Forward stroking, snowplow stop, forward crossovers R over L and L over R.

Continued on backwards stroking -- seems to be OK when I hit the sweet spot on the blade. If only I could do that every time! But I'm hitting it more frequently, which is good.

Learned backward pumping -- can do OK on left foot with right pumping, I was able to gather some speed doing this. Meaning a little faster than a snail's pace. Couldn't get the other side working, though, my right foot doesn't want to stay in place while the left pumps. I'll forgive myself, though, since it was the first time I tried it!

T-stops ok from a creep, turn into a mini-spin if I have any speed going into them, but again, I just started on these so I'm not upset.



I actually had a make-up lesson on Satuday with a different instructor, who happened to be Russian. Boy was that different! As some of you may know, I've been having issued getting my feet completely crossed, pinky-toe-to-pinky-toe in my crossovers. I had been told for my test that a close cross was something they'd be looking out for, so my instructor had me holding the crossed foot position for a second before uncrossing my feet. The make-up instructor approached crossovers completely differently -- he was so much more interested in getting the weight change smooth and complete. He had me working on a smaller circle and insisted that I NOT spend any time with my feet crossed "because they are going two different directions and will slow you down and you'll never learn to skate on one foot if you keep skating on two!" That made so much more sense to me! By the end of my 1/2 hour lesson with him, my crossovers on both sides were smooth and he said I improved 100% from the beginning. Of course, I get to my normal lesson and they want me back to the holding-the-crossed-feet thing and suggested that I not worry about speed yet, so I was a little confused, but managed to show them what they wanted to see for the test.

Is that a common difference in teaching philosophies? My normal instructors teach the crossovers without any pushes -- literally stepping over and my make-up instructor (Russian) wanted both pushes and complete weight transfer. He was also insistant that I use better form -- stroking leg straight with pointed toe, etc. ("That's what makes a crossover a corssover and not a step-over!") Or maybe he thought that my crossovers were ok enough to work on more power and speed. I dunno. It was a very good lesson and I learned a whole bunch, regardless. His best piece of advice: "It is always a program. One thing must always flow into next."

ps. I'm posting this on both threads so I don't snub anyone!

[TashaKat]

TUESDAY

Was lazy, still not well but won't bore you all with that ;)

Did a bit of everything but didn't particularly work on ANYTHING. Ran the step sequence SLOWLY (I always get to do it at proper speed and screw it up 50% of the time).

Dance lesson was ok, I'm following better than I ever have. Still go straight legged on the last mohawk of the 22 step (cos I'm scared ;) ).

WEDNESDAY

NEW BOOTS!!!!!

[img:87aa0563df]http://pictures.friendsreunited.co.uk/pictures/14720015.jpg[/img:87aa0563df]

Felt GORGEOUS, wore them for the whole 90 minutes which means that a) they're PERFECT or b) my feet have become hard, calloused things that shouldn't see the light of day :oops: The blades, however, are a different matter! I'm convinced that they're set too far in, my coaches say they're not (but I [b:87aa0563df]DO[/b:87aa0563df] feel as though I'm dropping to the outside) and have been told to stick with it for a while :( The blades are new too (same make, 1/4 inch longer) so I've got a rocker which I haven't had for YEARS!

Did all jumps up to and including Lutz, Lutz was a bit off but it has been recently anyway. Backspin was BETTER but other spins were a bit strange. Programme was absolute [i:87aa0563df]'word that I can't put here'[/i:87aa0563df]. I chickened on the step sequence (well, the back 3's) and got a 'we have to talk' about that one! It didn't help that certain skaters simply refuse to give way when other people's music is on ...... but I won't go there!

Didn't do dance as coach has hurt his leg :(

That's all at the mo ........ nearly finished cutting my 'interpretive' music ...... just hope she likes the damn thing!

L x

[Alexa]

Quarkiki--I have gone through a similar experience and also going through many changes on the crossovers, so I will comment on my experiences.

When I had my first session of classes, it was a beginning ice skating class, and we worked on crossovers, but now that I am in my second session I am realizing that we did not really go into much detail in my first session, as I am learning so much about crossovers now.

Anyway--My instructor is teaching me in phases when it comes to the crossovers. Once she sees that I am doing what she instructs well, we take it up a notch a concentrate on something else. For example, she noticed at first that I was crossing over and then toe picking the back foot when returning to being on two feet--in other words, it wasn't very smooth. So, then she had me try to hold the crossover so that I was basically gliding on two feet in order to get the feeling of the softness of it, and being able to hold the crossover--rather than lifting the leg and clunking it over and then returning to two feet.

Next, after doing that, I no longer had to keep the foot over, but just make sure I had the feeling of the softness of the move, so that is more fluid.

The next step that we just got into is to try to understand the feeling of a crosswords/sideways motion versus front to back type motion--as when you get good at crossovers you end up crossing over more rather than just doing a forward move on a circle and lifting one foot over another.

My point being that I have learned a lot about the different approaches to crossovers that I did not know existed before this session, and I am thinking that maybe your regular instructors want you to get the feeling of holding the foot on the crossover, and the make up instructor wants you to go ahead and do faster/more fluid crossovers, and isn't concerned so much about holding the foot over.

Sorry this was so long!

[JDC1]

Crossovers can be taught so many different ways and it could just be differing approaches work better for different people. You also will keep working on Cross overs for ever!! I have been taught to always maintain form even from the beginning, toe pointed, shoulders back, stomach tight, slight lean into the circle, at times it's a lot to think about so maybe your primary coach didn't want to overwhelm you and was going to slowly introduce what your posture should be etc. Crossovers are a really good way to work on your edges too, so as you get confident do more and more of them!!

[TashaKat]

Re: Crossovers/Progressives .... in my experience it tends to be Dance coaches who are more likely to teach the 'push with both feet' method of crossovers, you get more power and better flow from this :) Personally (soap box time) I think that EVERYONE should be taught like this, I HATE to see bad crossovers on skaters with advanced elements :twisted: You may also find that they teach you to bring your free leg in beside the skating foot and 'slide' it beside and past until it crosses over onto an inside edge and you push with the 'new' free leg .... they're GORGEOUS when they're done properly and you'll NEVER perfect them! The Senior Solo Dance Champion at my rink is STILL made to work on her progressives (and STILL corrected on them!).

THURSDAY

Dance coach has a bad leg so I had a solo lesson. Did lots of edges, cross rolls and 3turns and then a solo 22-Step. He says that he can see that I'm not used to the rocker on my (new) blades but is 'impressed' at how quickly I've got used to new blades AND boots, he didn't expect me to actually 'do' the whole of the 22-step ;)

Free ...... mmmm ...... camel was 'off' today but I managed one in my programme. Backspin is better EXCEPT for the exit!

Step sequence is 'better' except the double BI3 which I'm not confident with on the new combo (wasn't confident on the 'old' set so it's hardly suprising!). I've been given the task of doing mega amounts of double BI3's at my next few practises!!! She wasn't happy with my step sequence AT ALL and said that I'd have to just keep on doing it until I stopped bottling the BI3. This meant that I did it about 7 times in succession ..... never getting further than about 3 seconds worth :oops:

Programme was under par (it doesn't help that some people won't give way and it becomes an obstacle course), I'm 'ok' when I'm doing an element at a time but when the music comes on I start to rush, don't think and the rocker really throws me and makes me feel incredibly unstable. I'm also still not happy with the blade positions, when I try to do a tight corner I'm 'losing' my grip on the ice ...... something that I didn't do before!! I've been told to stop moaning and give it a week ...... that it's probably my body weight off because of being used to my other blades!

Oh well ...... nothing now until NEXT FRIDAY!!!! I'm on a course from work next week (2 nights in a hotel ..... bliss :D ) so can't get in .... then two whole beautiful weeks off work ........ mmmmmm

L xx

[JDC1]

Gasp.............................................. .................................................. ................okay, I am getting a little more comfortable with my waltz jump and am doing it with speed and around (i.e. near) other skaters. I used to be too itimidated and scared of making a mistake.

Groan - My spirals were so weak!! My back has been sore and it's tough to do spirals when your back hurts.

In Between - I forced myself to do lots of stroking and cross overs on the left side....they get rusty fast. I got good speed and a decent edge after a while. Practiced lots of 3 turns and 3 turn prep to the loop but stopped short of jumping, my coach wants me to practice the 3 turn and the arm position and holding the edge more before I try and jump.

For those just learning Inside 3 turns - DO THEM OFTEN - you will need them when you start learning jumps!!