Question about adult sectionals

[charlie]

I have a question about the rules for adult sectionals, and I'm hoping some of you here may be able to help me out. I'm interested in competing this year, but I've never taken any adult tests. I'm 27, and have passed my juvenile freestyle and intermediate MIF in the standard track. As far as I can tell, that would put me at around the ladies adult gold level. I'm wondering if I have to have tested in the adult track in order to compete in adult competitions? I haven't taken any of the adult tests, because I assume I'd have to start out at pre-bronze MIF and FS, and work my way all the way up. That would be a waste of time and money, seeing as how I'd just be repeating what I've done in the standard track already. After I first turned 25, I did have thoughts of trying to take the standard intermediate FS so I could skate masters adult and not have to go back and take all the adult tests, but that just isn't looking realistic at this point- I can't land a double jump to save my life right now! Does anybody know what the rules are for someone in my situation? Thanks!

[techskater]

If I understand the rules correctly, you can skate in any of the open events at sectionals but not the qualifying events and you are not eligible to skate at AN's because you haven't passed the appropriate tests.

[miss cleo]

Charlie:

You are correct in your understanding of the rules for Adult Sectionals. If you desire to skate at the Adult level, then you must take and pass the Adult tests just as if you wanted to skate ISI, you would be required to pass ISI tests regardless of what other tests you have passed.

Since you have already passed your Intermediate moves, it would make more sense to take one Intermediate freeskating test than all the Adult tests you would need to skate Adult Gold. And you might feel more accomplished rising to the challenge of the Intermediate test verses taking a bunch of tests that are below your current level.

[skaternum]

miss cleo is correct. (Of course she is. She's psychic!) To skate an Adult event, you must have passed Adult tests. If you read the announcement it says:

Adult Gold - A competitor in the Adult Gold event must have passed the Adult Gold Free Skating Test and no higher than the Standard Juvenile Free Skating Test ...

I agree that you might be better off just trying to pass the Intermediate Free Skating Test and skate Masters.

[charlie]

Originally posted by miss cleo
Charlie:

Since you have already passed your Intermediate moves, it would make more sense to take one Intermediate freeskating test than all the Adult tests you would need to skate Adult Gold. And you might feel more accomplished rising to the challenge of the Intermediate test verses taking a bunch of tests that are below your current level.

I agree that this is the simplest solution to the problem, but it's much easier said than done! I honestly don't know that there's a successful intermediate test in my future. I'd rather work towards that though, than go back and restake tests I've already passed in the standard track. I just think it's wrong that there aren't any other options for skaters in my situation. There really needs to be some way to crossover from standard track into the adult track without having to start all the way back at the beginning. That just doesn't make any sense.

I guess Sectionals are out of the question for me this year. I'll probably just focus on somehow rising to the challenge of passing my Intermediate freestyle. That would be a pretty amazing accompishment for me. Thanks for the advice everyone.

[skaternum]

Well, if it's any consolation, they didn't make the rule intentionally to exclude people like you. It's just that the adult competition and test structures were originally created for real "adult" skaters -- i.e., people who started skating as adults. At the time, there really weren't that many "returning" skaters competing. It's only been fairly recently that we've seen really big numbers of adults who've passed standard track. So as the situation has developed, and as various USFSA committees have gotten their fingers into the pie, the rules have sort of gotten a little weird when you look at them in toto.

[charlie]

Thanks, skaternum.

I'm actually not a "returning" skater. I started skating at 16, and while not an "adult" in the eyes of the USFSA at that time, I was still essentially dealing with an adult body and the accompanying challenges. Over the past 11 years, I've worked very hard to get to where I am now. I passed my Juvenile FS at 22. I landed my first double toe at 23, and my first double loop at 25. All of that was while putting myself through graduate school. In my eyes, I'd call that an "adult skater". I just wish the USFSA would realize that we don't all fit neatly into the categories they've created. Why on earth would they make it possible to cross over from standard to adult track, ONLY if you successfully passed the standard intermediate freestyle or higher? How many skaters ever really accomplish that in their skating career? Surely there ought to be some other options for those of us wanting to cross over from standard track.

Does anyone know if there is someone I could contact at the USFSA about the adult competition rules?

[skaternum]

Both the Adult Committee and the Competitions Committee would be appropriate.

[charlie]

Originally posted by skaternum
Both the Adult Committee and the Competitions Committee would be appropriate.

Thanks skaternum. Do you know how I can contact someone on those committees?

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by charlie
Thanks, skaternum.

I'm actually not a "returning" skater. I started skating at 16, and while not an "adult" in the eyes of the USFSA at that time, I was still essentially dealing with an adult body and the accompanying challenges. Over the past 11 years, I've worked very hard to get to where I am now. I passed my Juvenile FS at 22. I landed my first double toe at 23, and my first double loop at 25. All of that was while putting myself through graduate school. In my eyes, I'd call that an "adult skater". I just wish the USFSA would realize that we don't all fit neatly into the categories they've created. Why on earth would they make it possible to cross over from standard to adult track, ONLY if you successfully passed the standard intermediate freestyle or higher? How many skaters ever really accomplish that in their skating career? Surely there ought to be some other options for those of us wanting to cross over from standard track.

Does anyone know if there is someone I could contact at the USFSA about the adult competition rules?

Contact Maggie Harding, the Adult Chair, by going to USFSA.org and clicking on programs - adult. However, if you want to try to get out of taking the tests I don't think it will get you anywhere. As others have suggested, taking the Intermediate free might be easier time and finances wise, but be warned -- at the championship level at sectionals and AN, those ladies are doing all doubles through lutz, and last years winner landed a double axel. So if the championship level is in your plans.......Gold might just be a better option.

I am a returning skater. In order to qualify for AN, I had to take all the adult tests. With the MIF's, that does throw a wrench into the works, however it is not impossible for someone with standard track testing experience to pass the necessary adult tests. I took my Pre-Bronze, Bronze and Silver freestyle tests in one session (before the MIF's were required), then my Gold MIF two months later (the MIF's were required at that point), and my Gold freestyle a month after that. (And I was exhausted and injured by the time I got to AN 8O, but that's a different story.)

I know another returning-skater lady who has passed all of her MIF's and freestyle through Gold in the last year and 1/2, so she can go to AN this next year. She's in the age group III.

It can be done. Yes, it's a pain. However, those are the rules and if we want to skate at national competitions, those are the rules we must play by.

Best of luck to you -- hopefully we'll see you at the 2005 AN in Kansas City!

[Isk8NYC]

Have you considered competing in ISI, just for fun? You probably wouldn't have any trouble passing the tests and the competitions are divided up by age and test level.

[vesperholly]

My situation is very similar to yours, charlie. Thought it is a pain and costs money, I am planning on taking all the MIF through Gold and freestyle probably through Silver when I turn 25 (1.5 years). I'd rather compete in a level that I have a fighting chance in, even if it requires perfunctory tests.

Without doubles, you won't stand a chance in Championship Masters. A good axel and good in-betweens could be competitive in Championship Gold, depending on the rest of the competition.

Anyways, you get a real gold medal for completing your Gold adult tests (like the ones for Senior MIF), so you might as well do them and then you can say you're a gold medalist. :-)

[charlie]

Originally posted by sk8er1964
However, if you want to try to get out of taking the tests I don't think it will get you anywhere.



I wouldn't say I'm trying to "get out of taking tests" though. I've been testing all along. What would be the point of repeating the MIF? I've already passed those SAME EXACT moves, and at a higher standard even. The same can be said of the freestyle tests. Is there some element contained in the pre-bronze through gold freestyle tests that isn't required in the pre-preliminary through juvenile standard tests? I've already shown that I can pass these tests, not years ago when I was a child, but fairly recently. I know some of you might say just suck it up and take the 8 adult tests I would need to compete adult gold, but that would be a huge investment of time and money. I am just finishing up grad school right now. I have no money. I'm lucky if I can pay my basic living expenses. Skating twice a week right now puts me into debt. I cringe at the thought of what it would cost to take 8 adult tests (along with the non-home club test fee). I could understand this system a little better if I had never taken the MIF tests or something, and just somehow expected to be allowed to enter whatever adult level I want. I have taken the moves tests though. I have taken the FS tests. Testing has been very important to me over the years I've been skating. I have pushed myself to a level I never thought I would get to. I just don't see any reason to go back and duplicate my work. If the USFSA allows those at the Intermediate level and higher to cross over to the adult track, why are those at levels below that not allowed to do the same?

[w.w.west]

Originally posted by charlie
I If the USFSA allows those at the Intermediate level and higher to cross over to the adult track, why are those at levels below that not allowed to do the same?

The "adult track" is Pre-bronze through Gold. Anything above that is Masters. While Masters is still part of AN and AS, it is really a different track. It was created just for the purpose of those skaters who took tests when they were younger on the standard track. A skater is considered Masters if they have passed Intermediate FS and higher. Confusing? Yes! I know this doesn't help you for your current situation. The system is far from perfect and there will always be people that it doesnt' fit perfectly. But is continually evolving and has come a long way since it's inception. It will continue to evolve and change.

[manleywoman]

There's something I really don't understand here...if you have a double sal, double toe, and double loop (or used to have them anyway) you are MORE than qualified to take the Intermediate Free test and basically grandfather into the Novice level. If you are age group I, the Novice level is about as competitive as Gold I. Then you don't have to take all the adult tests to be able to skate Gold level. If you DON'T want to do that, as sk8ter1964 said, it is possible for someone at your ability level to take many of the Adult tests in one day. I also took many of the Adult tests in one day, since I was overly qualified for Pre-Bronze, Bronze and Silver, but had to pass them as a formality. So if you have those abilities you'll be able to sail through them quickly. If money is an issue and you don;t want to pay for all those tests (totally understandable) then work hard to take the Intermediate Standard Track test. Frankly, I think that's your best option, because it will cost you less in time and money.

I also think you may be confused: the Adult tests end at the Gold level. From there you take the same tests as the kids: Intermediate through Senior MIF and Free. So if you take the Intermediate test you're skipping the Adult tests altogether. Understand?

The USFSA system for adults, IMO, covers most of us pretty well, returning skaters and new skaters. We can all, for the most part, find a category into which we can fit.

I have to address vesperholly's comment regarding "without doubles you don't stand a chance in Masters." Maybe not a chance to medal, but I don't think that should discourage you. Perhaps you won't medal the first year out if you've lost those double jumps that you once had, but your edgework and spins I bet would be more than competitive, and the jumps will come back. So I think you'd be fine in Novice.

[dcden]

I agree with manleywoman... while Championship Masters might be challenging, the open Novice event would be right up your alley, would not be a wild stretch for you in terms of the technical elements, and would only require you to take the intermediate FS test. Is it feasible/reasonable to go to Adult Sectionals and/or Nationals to see what typical programs in Gold, Novice and Ch. Masters look like first before making a decision? Then at least you'd know what to expect.

[charlie]

Manleywoman- The basic problem with taking my intermediate free is that I haven't been able to land any doubles in quite a while. Of double toe loop, salchow, and loop, the only one I was ever able to land with some consistency is double toe loop. I'm hoping that maybe with a lot of work, I can get my double toe back consistently enough to pass my intermed. test.

As for several posters' precautions about the extremely high level of skating present in the masters level, I do appreciate the warning. If I do somehow pass intermediate and compete masters, I may very well end up towards the bottom of the group in masters novice, but that's okay. I'm not looking to win anything. What I miss is the motivation, challenge, sense of accomplishment, and camaraderie. I don't, however, miss the butterflies in my stomach before I get on the ice! ;)

dcden- You made a great suggestion about going to sectionals as a spectator. I'm definitely going to do that, as I have a friend competing, and midwestern sectionals are only about an hour away from here.

[miss cleo]

"Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never grow."

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

[vesperholly]

Originally posted by manleywoman
I have to address vesperholly's comment regarding "without doubles you don't stand a chance in Masters." Maybe not a chance to medal, but I don't think that should discourage you. Perhaps you won't medal the first year out if you've lost those double jumps that you once had, but your edgework and spins I bet would be more than competitive, and the jumps will come back. So I think you'd be fine in Novice.

To be fair, I was referring to Championship Masters, not the Masters category in its entirety. From what I saw of Championship Masters at two sectionals I attended (one Midwesterns and one Easterns), every competitor was doing at least three different doubles, and the top tier were attempting all of them including double axels.

My apologies for forgetting there are Masters non-qual events. Masters Novice seems like a great place to start. Since finances and training time seem to be a big hurdle, I would then suggest focusing on the Intermediate test. It seems like it is well within your grasp. Good luck!

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by charlie
I wouldn't say I'm trying to "get out of taking tests" though. I've been testing all along. What would be the point of repeating the MIF? I've already passed those SAME EXACT moves, and at a higher standard even. The same can be said of the freestyle tests. Is there some element contained in the pre-bronze through gold freestyle tests that isn't required in the pre-preliminary through juvenile standard tests? I've already shown that I can pass these tests, not years ago when I was a child, but fairly recently. I know some of you might say just suck it up and take the 8 adult tests I would need to compete adult gold, but that would be a huge investment of time and money. I am just finishing up grad school right now. I have no money. I'm lucky if I can pay my basic living expenses. Skating twice a week right now puts me into debt. I cringe at the thought of what it would cost to take 8 adult tests (along with the non-home club test fee). I could understand this system a little better if I had never taken the MIF tests or something, and just somehow expected to be allowed to enter whatever adult level I want. I have taken the moves tests though. I have taken the FS tests. Testing has been very important to me over the years I've been skating. I have pushed myself to a level I never thought I would get to. I just don't see any reason to go back and duplicate my work. If the USFSA allows those at the Intermediate level and higher to cross over to the adult track, why are those at levels below that not allowed to do the same?

Charlie - I must apologize to you. When I said "trying to get out of taking the tests" I used that terminology because that's what I tried to do last year - get out of taking the tests. My argument was if the USFSA is requiring me to skate at a certain level because of my previous tests, then why do I have to waste my time (and yes, I do think it was a waste of time, except for the Gold MIF's which I had never done before) taking the adult tests when I could be working on getting my doubles back or improving my overall skating. I was told in no uncertain terms "tough luck - you have to take them".

So, I didn't mean to offend, and if I did, I'm sorry - my bad. Friends? :)

[charlie]

Originally posted by sk8er1964
Charlie - I must apologize to you. When I said "trying to get out of taking the tests" I used that terminology because that's what I tried to do last year - get out of taking the tests. My argument was if the USFSA is requiring me to skate at a certain level because of my previous tests, then why do I have to waste my time (and yes, I do think it was a waste of time, except for the Gold MIF's which I had never done before) taking the adult tests when I could be working on getting my doubles back or improving my overall skating. I was told in no uncertain terms "tough luck - you have to take them".

So, I didn't mean to offend, and if I did, I'm sorry - my bad. Friends? :)

Don't worry, no offense taken. :) I just felt a little misunderstood. I hope I didn't come off harshly in my response. You just never know how things are going to be interpreted on a message board- that always worries me. I'm sorry you had to go back and repeat all those tests. Maybe someday the USFSA will realize how ridiculous that all is.

[jp1andOnly]

at least you have a form of testing. In Canada they go by the standard tests. So for example, if you have passed gold than you have no choice but to skate at that level (or a similar category) for adults. This becomes unfair to the skater who hasn't skated in maybe 10 years and wants to compete. They are stuck doing a higher level which maybe now they don't fit into.