walley difficulty?

[mikawendy]

Where are walleys in relation to other jumps, as far as difficulty (of doing them)?

I think I read a USFSA judging manual that says that toe walleys and toe loops are considered about equivalent (so they cannot be counted as two different jumps even though the entrance edge is different). But are they harder to _do_ than toe loops because of the counter-rotation from the entrance edge to the jump?

In terms of learning, when did you (if you did) learn to do a walley? The freestyle group lessons at my rink teach the jumps in this general sequence:
waltz
toe loop
salchow
loop
flip
lutz
axel

Thanks!

[pinkjellybean]

I remmember practicing a walley for a test instead of doing an axel (we only did this because it was an option and as i had a concussion at the time so we were just going to atempt the walley instead of further hurting myself b/c of getting dizzy doing axel's).

However I would say the walley is much harder than a single axel. I don't think you realize just how hard it is until you attempt to do one... over and over and over and over... and when you think you've finally done it your coach will tell you it flipped to an outside edge...so you try and try and try some more. Sorry I don't know how much this helps other than skate canada let you do a walley instead of an axel (atleast they used to).

[mousey]

ive had my axel for about 4 years now, and i still cant do a walley. however, some people find it easier to do a walley than an axel. my friend's brother was doing walleys right away, before all the other jumps (and he was in hockey skates too... i think...)

[supersk8er]

I think axel's are way harder than walley's! I'm a reverse skater and I can do walley's both ways...Axel's require technique, but walley's...you can just throw yourself into it...However, Double Axel's are possible, and, well, Double Walley's definitely aren't...Even when you try them on the trampoline, be warned, the falls hurt. :P

[Elsy2]

My coach always equated the level of difficulty of the walley to an axel......however, daughter, who actually has the experience here says they are not comparable, (for her).

I would say a toe walley is just slightly harder than a toe loop, only because being on a true inside edge for the jump is a bit difficult. I always tended to rock over to a flat or outside edge before the jump.

[sk8er1964]

I've been playing with the walley lately. It is challenging, but I don't really think it is harder than an axel. I used to have a walley as a kid, but that was 9 million years ago. It's just that it is not a comfortable jump, so people tend to not even try. JMO.

[dorvalskater1]

You mentioned Toe Walley...that is not the same as a Walley. A Walley is said to be equivalent to an axel....not for most people I have encountered, they find the axel easier. Toe Walley on the other hand are easy, until you try to do a doule toe walley!

[plinko]

For the Junior Bronze free skating test, the jump is either a single axel or a walley. Axels are taught, walley's don't get taught until much later when skaters start to need some variety for sequences.

[TashaKat]

Originally posted by mikawendy
In terms of learning, when did you (if you did) learn to do a walley? Thanks!

Hi, this is my sequence of events ;)

Waltz
Toe-loop/Salchow
Loop
Flip (Toe-Salchow)
Walley/Lutz
Axel
Doubles ......

I was taught the Walley to help my counter-rotation with the Lutz (which I had problems with initially) and amazed my coach by 'getting' it first time out! I wouldn't say that I'm wonderful at them but I didn't find them as difficult as, say, learning the loop (oh the traumas!). I never learned the toe-walley as part of the sequence but did get taught it as an extra when I started on axel/doubles.

x

[batikat]

OK - gotta ask - what is a Walley (in jump terms rather than someone who has just done something rather stupid and is therefore a total walley!)

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by batikat
OK - gotta ask - what is a Walley (in jump terms rather than someone who has just done something rather stupid and is therefore a total walley!)

Here's a good link that shows you a walley (from Sk8stuff.com).

http://sk8stuff.com/f_recog/recog_j_walley.htm

[icedancer2]

This is a great site -- thank you for the link.

For the record, I miss seeing walleys -- in the "old days" of skating you would see most of the top skaters doing a string of walleys down the center of the ice near the end of their program -- it was always very exciting and fun to watch.

FWIW however, I still have trouble recognizing a double or triple-toe walley when I see one...

[96.23??]

For I beleive our Jr. broze test you have the option of an axel or a walley. I find the walley a lot more difficult than an axel, it's hard to stay on the inside egde for me, I always tend to switch to the outside and doing something that kind of resembles a loop. :S
This is the sequence I learned my jumps in:

bunny hop
waltz jump
salchow
toe loop
loop
flip
lutz
axel
walley

I only learned the walley just incase I couldn't land my axel for my test, it's not usually taught around here anymore... shame because they're so neat to watch when done properly.

[kayskate]

To the best of my knowledge, walleys are not req'd on any USFSA test. I think they are an optional move that is incorporated into step sequences or footwork leading into a double or triple jump.

I tried to learn them once (I'm an adult skater) and found them very difficult. I did not pursue it. It seems they are commonly executed from backward pulls (1-foot slalom).

Kay

[TashaKat]

Originally posted by batikat
OK - gotta ask - what is a Walley (in jump terms rather than someone who has just done something rather stupid and is therefore a total walley!)

Mmmm ... I guess in simple terms (which is about my level) it's like a loop but takes off from an INSIDE edge instead of an outside! The entrance isn't the same (I love to see it done from power-pulls) and the feeling (to me) was TOTALLY different to a loop ..... that makes no sense at all .... I'll shut up now, it's the stress!

x

[icedancer2]

Although I don't jump (anymore) I always thought of a walley like those tests on the GRE, ie.:

Walley is to Loop as

Lutz is to Flip

Does this make sense to anyone else? Both the Walley and the Lutz are infinitely harder than the Flip or Loop, and both involve a counter-rotation (or is that a counter-intuitive rotation?).

Thinking too much.

[96.23??]

Originally posted by icedancer2

Walley is to Loop as

Lutz is to Flip

Does this make sense to anyone else?



Yah! That's what I thought I just wasn't totally sure, so I didn't post it.

[mikawendy]

Originally posted by icedancer2
For the record, I miss seeing walleys -- in the "old days" of skating you would see most of the top skaters doing a string of walleys down the center of the ice near the end of their program -- it was always very exciting and fun to watch.

I've seen a few skaters at my rink do walleys in their programs. And I think I saw someone in this year's Eastern Sectionals (Senior Men) do a walley in one direction then step to the other foot and do a walley in the other direction. It was very neat to see. (It might have been Mauro Bruni, but I'm not sure...)

[flo]

We've worked on them in class with Mr.Ogalvie. He say's there are very few skaters who can really do them well. They're trick little beasts.

[LoopLoop]

I worked on a walley for a little while last year and couldn't get it. I was able to jump and rotate it, but couldn't transfer my weight properly so I always landed on the wrong foot (LBI instead of RBO).

[sk84life]

i find axel a ton easier then walley, although i didnt even try to learn the walley untill after i had my axel for about 2 years. over the summer i worked on my walley but i have a bad habbit of puting my left toepick in the ice like a second b4 i take off just to ensure myself of enough rotation i guess but i cant break the habit i can do flying counters good but i cant get that extra 1/2 rotation. so i definatly think the walley is much harder then the axel.

[mikawendy]

Originally posted by sk84life
over the summer i worked on my walley but i have a bad habbit of puting my left toepick in the ice like a second b4 i take off just to ensure myself of enough rotation

sk84life--
Have you ever tried it from backwards power pulls? I saw someone do it this way recently but had never seen that before. I'm sure it's been done, but I usually see it in the middle of other footwork. I think she did the power pulls to build up speed and momentum coming into the jump.

[icedancer2]

Originally posted by mikawendy
sk84life--
Have you ever tried it from backwards power pulls? I saw someone do it this way recently but had never seen that before. I'm sure it's been done, but I usually see it in the middle of other footwork. I think she did the power pulls to build up speed and momentum coming into the jump.

This is usually the way it was done -- at least in the past -- they didn't really call them power-pulls per se (I don't think) but the skater would do a couple of power pulls and then up into the jump --

[sk84life]

Originally posted by mikawendy
sk84life--
Have you ever tried it from backwards power pulls? I saw someone do it this way recently but had never seen that before. I'm sure it's been done, but I usually see it in the middle of other footwork. I think she did the power pulls to build up speed and momentum coming into the jump.

yes i usually try it from the powerpulls

[Magz]

what are powerpulls?

[mikawendy]

Originally posted by Magz
what are powerpulls?

They're like one-foot slalom--skating on one foot while changing edges back and forth. In USFSA MIF, they're referred to as power change of edge pulls, I think.

[IceAngel725]

so i finally understand what a walley is (well sort of...lol), so what's a toe walley? This might be a dumb question, but i figured i'd ask anyway :oops:

[icedancer2]

A toe walley is like a walley except that you pick off to get propulsion. People (some people) can do double and triple toe-walleys, but I have never seen a double walley -- I don't think so anyway.

They are also not usually done out of power-pulls like the walley is, but they can be done that way.

So, a counter-clockwise jumper ("normal" jumper) will be on a RBI edge, pick off, rotate CCW and land on RBO.

It's what I call a counter-intuitive (or counter-rotational) jump.