Washington FSC New Years Adult Invitational

[jenlyon60]

Information on the WFSC Adult Invitational has been moved to the top right of the WFSC Home Page (http://www.erols.com/wfsc). See below for the text of the blurb (note... if the links embedded below don't work, please visit the home page... I hand-jammed in the URLs from the original.)

New Years Adult Competition will be held on January 30, 31, February 1, 2004 at the Ashburn Ice House - same as the last two years. We hope that you can participate as well as bring new adult skaters to the competition. Unless we run out of ice time, Friday January 30 will probably be practice ice. Early morning practice may be available if we have spare ice time. You will be notified in early January. Please pass the information to your fellow adult skaters, especially ones that do not have email. Download the announcement in Word format (http://users.erols.com/wfsc/docs/NYrs04_Announcement.doc) or PDF format (http://users.erols.com/wfsc/docs/NYrs04_Announcement.pdf) and the entry form in Word format (http://users.erols.com/wfsc/docs/NYrs04_EntryForm.doc) or PDF format (http://users.erols.com/wfsc/docs/NYrs04_EntryForm.pdf) here.



I look forward to seeing everyone there. I probably won't be competing, but will be there to at least watch and probably help as a volunteer.

[skaternum]

I'll be there. So far, we have 5 definites + 2 maybes from my club. This is a great comp. (But who got a bug up their *** when they made up the spin event requirements?!) :)

[climbsk8]

I LOVE the idea for the spin event!! My coach is going to go psycho on me for this...

We have four or five people from my club who want to make the trip...we've never been before. Sounds fun...

[skaternum]

Ptooey on the spin event. :P I'm just mad 'cause I suck at spinning and they picked spins that are way above the spins required at that test level. And ptooey also on the Moves in the Field event that has standard track stuff thrown in for no good reason. I don't get it at all. For example, the Silver MITF includes the Pre-Juvenile power pulls, which don't appear on any adult MITF test. What's up with that?

Regardless, it'll be a fun competition! Any skatingforums folks want to try to find a time to meet and say hi? Once the schedule comes out, we can try to set something up if anybody's interested.

[LoopLoop]

I'll be there, in Silver II freestyle and Silver spins.

Skaternum, we definitely have to get a group together!

[climbsk8]

OK, I have to agree with you on the silver MITF point...that's just weird...we're all confused enough already with moves test, since they're new, but to throw moves into a competition that aren't on the test sounds like a waste of time for the skater.

I competed in Adult Silver moves at Eastern Sectionals last year, and one of the competitors skated the wrong spirals move...and WON. It said plain as day on the announcement that the requirement was the pre-pre spiral move, but she did the prelim spiral move and didn't get docked by the judges for it. I don't think the judges knew what
the requirements were.

Anyway, I got second place in that event...that was a little perturbing.

And you make a good point on the spins...some of them are above the test level for that event.

[LWalsh]

"Ptooey on the spin event. "

I agree. I consider myself at least an average spinner and this is tough this year.

The MITF event also suprised me but after I thought about it I suppose they were thinking that the move they picked is from approximately the same level so it would add some variety. Power Pulls are definitely not my favorite. By contrast I think the compulsory event for Silver is easier than it has been in past years. I still plan to do each of these if nothing else to gain more compeitive experience. Even if I end up in last, again. :roll:

Would love to meet up with whomever else is coming.

[Terri C]

Originally posted by skaternum
(But who got a bug up their *** when they made up the spin event requirements?!) :)
Not only that , but the Compulsory moves as weel! A camel spin is required in the Bronze CM- and it's NOT a required spin on the test!

I'll be there, doing Pre Bronze Free and Bronze MIF!

[skaternum]

I'll be there competing in Silver II freeskate and Adult Pairs (which we affectionately call Faux Pairs). If I can get the guts and enough ice time to practice, I may also do Silver MITF, but I'm not sure.

[dani]

I agree on the move requirements. I have passed Silver MIF and they won't let me skate Gold. :-( Oh well ... ;-)

I will probably skate bronze everything, pre-silver dance, and maybe unveil my interp. We started choregraphing that yesterday ;-)

Hugs!
Danielle

[manleywoman]

I'm hoping to go to skate Madters Ladies and Spins, but I have to see if I have the "coinage"...

[flo]

I'll hopefully do the interpretive and the Silver CM.

[RNsk8r]

I'll be there skating young adult bronze. I might do interpretive too, it depends on if I can get a program ready. Not actually looking too likely since I still don't have my free program done. Anyway.

[flo]

Hi,
For anyone who has done the cm in previous years, are the elements strung together, or are each done one at a time?
thanks

[LWalsh]

I've done the CM before. They are strung together. You get a time limit (which I think varies for each division) and you complete the elemnents together in whatever order you like. The spin event is the other way where you do each element seperately and wait for everyone to complete the first before moving on to the second and third.

Does anyone have a schedule yet for this competition? I forgot to include the self addressed stamped evelope with my entry and I see they haven't posted online yet.

[LoopLoop]

No schedule yet, since the deadline for entries was just this past Friday! If I remember correctly, last year they emailed the schedule (if you put an email address on the application) as well as posting it on the website.

[vesperholly]

Wow, this event is totally odd! I don't understand their logic at all.

You have to have passed Intermediate Free to compete Young Adult Gold?! The requirements for the Young Adult FS levels are one ahead of what they should be. Right under "Adult MIF" it says, Adult MIF will not be used as a qualifier. Why not? That's like saying, "Here are the Freestyle categories, we will be basing eligibility on your Pairs tests." Ummm, huh?! And a back camel in Silver spins? The levels that they chose are all much more difficult than the tests, and I think that rather than raising the level of the competition, it will actually alienate skaters who aren't sandbagging in their levels.

It seems that the organizers were looking to be unique and different, but actually are just confusing. I love competing and if I had the $$$ I'd certainly be attending this competition, but the levels are so screwy I'm almost glad I'm not. Good luck to everyone who is, though!!

[skaternum]

Originally posted by vesperholly
Right under "Adult MIF" it says, Adult MIF will not be used as a qualifier. Why not? That's like saying, "Here are the Freestyle categories, we will be basing eligibility on your Pairs tests." Ummm, huh?! And a back camel in Silver spins? The levels that they chose are all much more difficult than the tests, and I think that rather than raising the level of the competition, it will actually alienate skaters who aren't sandbagging in their levels.

A couple of comments.

I think I understand the logic for the MITF events. The Adult MITF haven't existed for very long and most adults haven't taken them, so they really can't use your MITF test level as a qualifier. So what else could they use? Just freestyle. And that makes some sense. You wouldn't want a Gold freestyle skater to compete in Pre-Bronze Moves! There really was no other way to come up with a qualifier for freeskaters. Peach Classic did essentially the same thing.

I totally agree about the spins! Count me as one of the alienated skaters who isn't sandbagging at Silver and who won't be doing the spins event. Their choices are so far above the test level that I haven't even started learning some of them. I hope there is low turnout and somebody remembers to mention it to next year's referee.

[flo]

For the moves - also remember that most of us are practicing the moves at a level above our freestyle test level. If you have passed silver, then you would be working on gold, and would compete gold moves (as defined by the freestyle entry for gold either a silver or gold test). If the movers were an entry criteria, then you would have to compete silver, which for many would not be what you are currently practicing.

And by the way for pairs, the majority of the entry rules go be the freestyle test and not pairs. This year there is another change in the pair requirements for nationals.

I'm entering silver CM and interpretive. I didn't think the spins were that bad, but a very strange entry requirement for the back camel - if you do a back camel it's usually from a forward or a flying camel. I would rather do a flying camel and compete in gold.

[vesperholly]

Originally posted by flo
For the moves - also remember that most of us are practicing the moves at a level above our freestyle test level. If you have passed silver, then you would be working on gold, and would compete gold moves (as defined by the freestyle entry for gold either a silver or gold test). If the movers were an entry criteria, then you would have to compete silver, which for many would not be what you are currently practicing.
<snip>
I'm entering silver CM and interpretive. I didn't think the spins were that bad, but a very strange entry requirement for the back camel - if you do a back camel it's usually from a forward or a flying camel. I would rather do a flying camel and compete in gold.

But aren't Gold FS'ers grandfathered to Gold MIF anyway? Ie, if you passed your Silver FS before MIF started, your first MIF test would be Gold. They could have also done it by standard track MIF test since they roughly correspond with Adult MIF. I do like that they have a Masters MIF though!

For example, in kiddie competitions: Skaters can compete at their current test level (passed Juv, compete Juv) or one higher (passed Juv, compete Int).

As for spins, I do think that's an unusual requirement for the back camel but would work very nicely for me who can do a good back camel from a FI-3 but not very well from a forward spin! :-)

[NoVa Sk8r]

Just a clarification and a few comments:
In the adult silver spins category, you can do either a back camel OR a back sit. So if the back camel is near impossible (I think it is a pretty hard move--flying camel is definitely easier for me!), do a back sit. The back sit's not above silver level.

And last year, there was a typo, if I recall. They listed the back camel as the only type of back spin (no back sit option). That sort of flustered me. But you know what, I hunkered down and started to learn the back camel. It wasn't pretty at first, but I attempted something that I never would have if I weren't required (hmm, sounds like shades of silver MIF, too), and learned a new move. That move actually helped with my back sit spin.

Also, I think most adults don't have these back spins nailed down, so in a way, it sort of evens the playing field (or probably just keeps a lot of adults from entering this event?).

So here's hoping these herculean challenges will make us better adult skaters!

[skaternum]

Originally posted by NoVa Sk8r
Just a clarification and a few comments:
In the adult silver spins category, you can do either a back camel OR a back sit. So if the back camel is near impossible (I think it is a pretty hard move--flying camel is definitely easier for me!), do a back sit. The back sit's not above silver level.

I beg to differ. I can do neither as recognizable elements (and I've managed to place okay at the Silver level). Granted, I'm a crummy spinner anyway. :oops: But this event isn't going to make me hunker down and take on a spin that is way beyond my ability at this point. It's just going to make me not enter the spins event. :P

[skaternum]

Originally posted by vesperholly
But aren't Gold FS'ers grandfathered to Gold MIF anyway? Ie, if you passed your Silver FS before MIF started, your first MIF test would be Gold.

Correct, and this is what you can do in this competition. I've passed my Silver FS test, so I can compete in Gold MITF.

[Debbie S]

I agree that the MITF comp is a little messed up. I am a no-test, at least right now (hoping to pass pre-Bronze MIF and FS in early Feb), so I'm competing pre-Bronze FS and MIF at the comp. However, the moves in Pre-B MIF are forward crossovers and the edges, only 2 of the moves required in the test (yes, I realize it would probably be too time-consuming to include all 4). What doesn't make sense is that the Bronze MIF comp has the alt back crossovers, from the Bronze MIF test, and the alt forward threes, from the pre-Bronze test. Why can't both Bronze moves be from the Bronze test? And I wish they had the alt threes in the Pre-Bronze comp b/c I need to get practice doing those under pressure a lot more than I need to practice crossovers. I would almost rather compete Bronze MIF, but of course, I can't do that.

[Stormy]

Originally posted by climbsk8
OK, I have to agree with you on the silver MITF point...that's just weird...we're all confused enough already with moves test, since they're new, but to throw moves into a competition that aren't on the test sounds like a waste of time for the skater.

I competed in Adult Silver moves at Eastern Sectionals last year, and one of the competitors skated the wrong spirals move...and WON. It said plain as day on the announcement that the requirement was the pre-pre spiral move, but she did the prelim spiral move and didn't get docked by the judges for it. I don't think the judges knew what
the requirements were.

Anyway, I got second place in that event...that was a little perturbing.

And you make a good point on the spins...some of them are above the test level for that event.

Ok, I'll admit. That was me! Here's the story. I was competing in Young Adult, and honestly, wasn't familiar with Silver moves since I hadn't tested Adult yet. I really thought that it was the Prelim spirals since I reasoned Pre-pre spirals wouldn't be on the Silver test. I didn't double check the announcement. I asked the ice monitor what the Moves were, since I thought they would be on the ice check-in sheet, and they weren't and she didn't know. So I did the Prelim spirals. And when I realized my mistake, it was too late. Believe me, NO ONE was more shocked than me to see I won. I really do feel bad about it. I guess the judges really didn't know the requirements. :?? :oops:

[climbsk8]

It's OK, stormy...you did have nice spirals ;)

I think it's going to take a couple of years before all of the kinks get ironed out of moves, anyway. Remember, they changed the standard track moves a few years after they were instituted. And I think they're still trying to figure out the Young Adult class, too.

[dani]

Originally posted by skaternum
A couple of comments.

I think I understand the logic for the MITF events. ... Peach Classic did essentially the same thing.


I agree that they can't use the moves alone as a qualifier, but since I passed my silver moves last year and am working on the gold moves, it would have been nice to have been able to enter gold. So, I am not entering moves this year.

The bronze compulsaries are a little screwed up too. I thought compulsary moves were usually taken from moves that were required at that level? I really like the requirement from bronze MIF, that is a nice touch. The inside spirals are interesting and aren't really on any test. However, the remaining elements (loop, camel, and salchow/toe loop combo) aren't required until the silver test. That just seems odd to me. They are common enough in bronze competition, but are they "compulsary"?

Can't wait to see everyone there!!

Hugs!
Danielle

[Terri C]

Originally posted by Debbie S
What doesn't make sense is that the Bronze MIF comp has the alt back crossovers, from the Bronze MIF test, and the alt forward threes, from the pre-Bronze test. Why can't both Bronze moves be from the Bronze test? And I wish they had the alt threes in the Pre-Bronze comp b/c I need to get practice doing those under pressure a lot more than I need to practice crossovers. I would almost rather compete Bronze MIF, but of course, I can't do that.

Debbie, I know your frustration, since the alt threes are the worst part of the Pre Bronze MIF. However, I think I figured out why the alt threes and back crossover to back outside edge are in the Bronze MIF event: Together they are the building blocks for the power three turns that are on the Bronze MIF and are the PIA on that test!

In the meantime how's everyone's practices for this event going?? :D

[Elsy2]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LWalsh
[B]I've done the CM before. They are strung together. You get a time limit (which I think varies for each division) and you complete the elemnents together in whatever order you like. The spin event is the other way where you do each element seperately and wait for everyone to complete the first before moving on to the second and third.

Really? It's interesting that they would run the spin event this way. I've never seen one done like that. It's always been a short program like CM with the moves/spins done in the order of your preference.

[LWalsh]

The first year it was done that way (in a program). Last year though, they changed it. It is more confusing at first, but once you get used to, it it's much better. This way you can warm up your spins on the open third of the ice for as long or as little as you want. I consider this a big help. Also you don't have to do three spins right in a row, so you are not so dizzy by the last one.

[Ellyn]

Anyone who's skated at this rink before, how cold is it?

(Should I plan to wear a long-sleeved dress, or would I be OK in short sleeves?)

[jenlyon60]

Moderate. There's colder rinks in the DC area. I find that the ice is usually quite hard though.

[skaternum]

I find it to be a fairly cold rink, but it depends on which surface you're on. Personally, I'd go with long sleeves, but I'm also a little cold-natured.

[Ellyn]

Thanks.

Good thing I've got a nice new long-sleeved velvet dress I haven't worn yet. Can't do up the zipper by myself, but that shouldn't be a problem at competition. :-)

[miss cleo]

Would any of you "veterans" of this event have any idea when the schedule will be posted online? Any insight as to what events would be held on which days would be greatly appreciated.
Making travel plans (with skates) has taken on a new meaning since 911.

Thanks!

[NoVa Sk8r]

You can e-mail the coordinator, Peter Tsai, and ask him what he tentatively has, though nothing is probably close to being finalized yet. I seem to remember last year that he sent out an e-mail on jan 20 alerting us to the schedule (I know this because I saved the message in Outlook and recently deleted it). Perhaps a similar timeline will be in effect?

[LWalsh]

This brings up my biggest pet peeve with competitions.

If I even knew which day my events fell on it would be tremendously helpful (for any competition that is, I'm not picking on this one which happens to be run very well).

It would be easier on the wallet if I knew I didn't need a hotel room for all the days and I could just drive home (4 hours). Also some of the comps that have adults events run on weekdays and through the weekend. So when you enter, you have no idea if you'll need to take day off from work to compete. I guess the people who fly just plan on being there the whole time. That can make competing a lot more expensive. Fortunately VA seems to have the cheapest hotel rooms I've ever encountered.

Of course from the organizers point of view, they can't tell when they'll have to schedule events until they get all the entries.

[miss cleo]

Would anyone here have an email address for Peter Tsai?

Appreciate your help!

[NoVa Sk8r]

You can reach him at:

petertsai@erols.com

[Terri C]

I guess no one's heard anything yet as far as a schedule??

[erdehoff]

Yikes! The competition is in a few weeks and I still can't get through my program without gasping for air! I haven't had a program since I was 13 -- wow, it's a lot harder at 24! :)

I can't wait to get the experience, though. I'll be in the Young Adult Pre-Bronze (I think). This is partly a chance for me to practice my preliminary freestyle test.

Can't wait to see everyone there!

[jenlyon60]

Originally posted by Terri C
I guess no one's heard anything yet as far as a schedule??

Nope. Just checked the web site and nothing posted yet.

But I think it was pretty close to barely a week before, last year.

[skaternum]

Jen, which rink is the East rink? Is it the one that's to your right as you come into the building? Based on the Ice House's schedule on the web, it looks like most of the comp will be in the East rink. ??

[jenlyon60]

I think so. I rarely skate there....