Feeling intimidated by more experienced and better skaters

[skatetiludrop]

Have you ever felt that way? I sometimes have to stop skating when there're too many good skaters doing their stuff. Like when you're trying to perfect a waltz jump and people around you are doing axel, doubles or just simply skating with confident speed. It's just so intimidating :??

[backspin]

I know it's easy to feel this way (actually, I'm more likely to feel self conscious when there are high level coaches on the ice!), but you have to remember, they didn't get there overnight & they are WELL aware of the work it takes--and they were once where you are too.

When skaters are practising, they tend to focus on their own practice, & while they notice who else is out there, they aren't watching & critiquing them. In my experience, even the kids respect someone who works hard, watches out for others, & is friendly. They really don't judge based on ability.

So go out, work hard, and if you notice someone flying around, appreciate the work it took to get them there & let it serve as inspiration to you! You've paid for the ice like everyone else--enjoy it!

[Figureskates]

yeah, but then I realize that some of these skaters are 20, 30, 40 years younger than me then I don't feel so bad.

[daisies]

Just remember no one is watching you. They are busy training. :)

[NCSkater02]

yeah, but then I realize that some of these skaters are 20, 30, 40 years younger than me then I don't feel so bad.

And at 41, I am usually the oldest on the ice. At my two rinks, I think I'm even older than all the coaches except for one, and I'm not sure of her age. Most of the skaters are half to 3/4 of my age. And fast. And good. For the most part, they don't see me unless I am in their way, but there are a few who talk to me and even know my name.

[TashaKat]

Hi, yes I've been there and, as the others said, there's really nothing to worry about.

I used to skate on patch with kids going to Nationals ie VERY good skaters. I was incredibly intimidated at first and literally used to stay in one corner (not a good move I realise now!) However, with time I got to be 'friends' with most of them and they were so kind and helpful to me. It's easy to misinterpret people especially if they are concentrating. The best thing to do is get an idea of the general pattern of the programmes and dances (it's easier than it sounds) and make sure that you follow rink rules.

I've told this story a gazillion times but I'll repeat it anyway ....

I once went to an ice rink before work, first thing in the morning. I got onto the ice and was followed on by this guy who had been sat on the benches (I didn't look at him as the rink was having building work done and you DO get a bit tired of the cracks and the *jokes* after a while). There was only him and I on the ice ..... imagine how MORTIFIED I was to find out that it was Robin Cousins!!!! Only one of my hero's!!!!! There's me doing my crappy little loop jump (I had JUST got it so it was before I really loved it) and he's doing wonderful doubles and THE most amazing spins. Anyway, he was absolutely adorable, if I was ploughing my way (ploughing was such a good analogy btw) round to do the loop he would give way to me. He was SUCH a gentleman. I thought he was wonderful before but that only confirmed my thoughts about him.

Anyway ...... don't worry, you've got as much right to the ice as anyone else. DON'T apologise for being there. You've paid the same money as everyone else. And don't forget ..... strangers are just friends that you haven't spoken to yet :D You'll probably find that in time you integrate into the 'community' and it will be YOUR turn to welcome some poor sod who's trying to hide next to the barrier.

All the best


Lx

[dani]

yeah, but then I realize that some of these skaters are 20, 30, 40 years younger than me then I don't feel so bad.

20 Years younger than Figureskates would make them ... ummm. carry the 1, - Ouch! never mind :twisted:

Hugs!!
Danielle

ps) Figureskates I know that we met while I was up there, but I don't think I realized who you were at the time.

[jenlyon60]

I skate afternoon FS sessions once or twice a week with kids ranging from LTS type beginners through Junior Dance/Junior FS. The worse part is late winter/early spring when all the kids are getting new programs, and I don't know where they are at when in the music.

It took me awhile to get used to watching for the other skaters...I was a bit intimidated at first. Now, I will yield right of way to whoever has their music on, but if I'm in lesson with my coach, I am less likely to yield to other skaters who are in our way.

The other winter, before I started my new job, I had my lesson on a midday FS session. Thought I was going to luck out and coach and I would have the ice to myself, when Mike Weiss got on the ice. I was worried for a bit, but he was very nice about staying out of the way of my European Waltz, and I stayed out of the way of his triples and quads.

[daisies]

Now, I will yield right of way to whoever has their music on, but if I'm in lesson with my coach, I am less likely to yield.

I know this is a different topic, but I find it interesting. At my rink, the rule is that if your music is on you have the right of way. Period. A person in a lesson only has the right of way to someone not in a lesson, but not to someone doing their program.

Not that anyone actually follows any of these rules! :frus:

[jenlyon60]

I forgot a few words. I meant to say, "yield to skaters in my way whose music isn't playing." My fingers and my brain weren't in sync... so I edited my original message to correct it.

[icedancer2]

I think we've all felt that way at one time or another. The really classy ones will yield to you (the Michael Weiss' and Robin Cousins of the world) -- some may be snotty about it (I once overheard two teenagers say about the adult skaters at our rink, "Just run 'em down..." -- those were fighting words for me -- I made sure I got as close to them as possible as often as possible and eventually they left "us" alone).

The worst are kids who have not been taught to look, and to yield. In my book the better skater should always yield to the one with less skills (the better skater knows how to move quickly out of the way) -- those who do not look often have coaches who teach them to be aggressive like that -- they are usually not well-liked at the rink and in a lot of cases, end up leaving the rink altogether (eventually -- sometimes you have to wait a long time).

Good luck, and don't be discouraged. Eventually you will become a normal part of the scene and everyone will know what you are up to! skating should be fun for everyone, otherwise why bother going out and slogging through it every day!

Have fun!

[TreSk8sAZ]

It's actually quite ironic that this topic came up when it did. I was skating on an early FS session the other day with three other girls: one senior level, one intermediate level, and one open juvenile level. Because I'm just shy of adult level age, I'm in standard track prelim freeskate. I'm learning my axel, double sal and double toe, but they aren't consistant, and I've only landed my double toe twice. The senior level skater was practicing triples and double axels, while the intermediate girl had nearly all of her doubles. I was more equal to the other skater jump-wise, but my spins were just rediculously bad comparitively. I finally just looked at the other girls and, laughing at myself, told them "I just cannot keep up with you guys... I feel so stupid."

The senior level skater just smiled and told me not to worry, that she was there too and she was impressed that I was even out there trying. She told me later that she was amazed at how fast I was progressing. The other girls honestly didn't care that I was further behind them, they just skated for themselves and enjoyed the company.

Moral of the long, long story: Same as what everyone else has been saying. Everyone feels inferior to someone at some time, but most of the people we feel inferior to don't seem to care that we're doing lesser elements, they're out there doing their own thing!

[NCSkater02]

The worst are kids who have not been taught to look, and to yield. In my book the better skater should always yield to the one with less skills (the better skater knows how to move quickly out of the way) -- those who do not look often have coaches who teach them to be aggressive like that -- they are usually not well-liked at the rink and in a lot of cases, end up leaving the rink altogether (eventually -- sometimes you have to wait a long time).

Have fun!

And worse yet--they glare at you as they skate through your path or spinning. I have a couple of these in my group lesson and they look at me like they are daring me to get in their way. If they are like that at 6, what are they going to be like at 10 or 16? I hope they will grow out of it, but both of them seem like spoiled kids.

[sk8er1964]

And worse yet--they glare at you as they skate through your path or spinning. I have a couple of these in my group lesson and they look at me like they are daring me to get in their way. If they are like that at 6, what are they going to be like at 10 or 16? I hope they will grow out of it, but both of them seem like spoiled kids.

Unless they have a coach who is advocating that behavior, most of them do grow out of it. As a mother of a 9-year-old, I am constantly amazed at the self-absorbtion (sp) of that age group. (Believe me, I try and try and try to correct it -- I think it's time that will do the trick.) I just try to go around them, annoying as it is. I much prefer to skate with kids 12 and older and adults, no matter their level.

As far as the original topic, I think it is the responsibility of the better skaters to look out for the lower level skaters. I have told beginning adults and kids many times that I will get out of their way, not the other way around. The only thing I ask is that they watch out for me when I'm in my program. I tell them I am concentrating too much on what I am doing to watch out for them - they always understand that. From what I've seen around here, except for a few obnoxious exceptions, that is the rule more than the exception.

Good luck -- have fun -- and don't worry at all what other skaters think :) . After all, you're skating for you, not them. :bow:

[Sk8Bunny]

Moral of the long, long story: Same as what everyone else has been saying. Everyone feels inferior to someone at some time, but most of the people we feel inferior to don't seem to care that we're doing lesser elements, they're out there doing their own thing!

Oh my gosh, this is so true! At our rink, theres a novice(?) skater who imo, is really good and quite better than me. I look up to her a lot- even though me and her aren't miles apart in our skating levels. But I always feel inferior to her. Until one day this younger skater was complementing me and I was really surprised because, although her skating/stroking isnt too advanced(yet!) she is working on many of the same jumps I am. I never thought of her as inferior, I always thought we were pretty close level-wise. So then it dawned on me, if a skater has 2 more jumps than me, I tend to think they are so so much better, but if a skater has 2 jumps less than me, I get worried cause they are catching up to me and they could be a threat at competitions. Even though they probably see it as I am so much more ahead than them, which isnt totally true. I hope im making sense lol. Anyways, what Im trying to say is, everyone is always both ahead and behind someone else. But when it comes down to it, we all work hard on the ice and no matter what we are working on, we all have the (somewhat)same goals, detrimination, and passion for skating. (And after re-reading this, I just realized Im pretty much repeating what TreSK8sAZ said -sorry about that! :oops: Ahh, oh well, ill post it anyways hehe)

[Chico]

When I was a newer skater I often felt "behind". I now understand that everyone has to start somewhere. I try to be extra kind to new skaters remembering this "behind" feeling. Even now that I feel more capable, I still have "behind" feelings. I've been skating with some very advanced skaters this week and negative feelings have crept in. Then, I had someone compliment me on my progress since they last saw me and I got over it. Reality check. Skating with "better" skaters is a great way to push yourself. Watch their body line, stroking, and tempo. Three days, I feel like my speed has improved. Faster skating or a chance of being run over! Hang in there.

Chico

[slusher]

I'm the old lady on the ice and the youngest kid has adopted me, she's 4 or 5, and tries to teach me sit spins. She can do a beautiful one, I'll never match it and don't really try to. I concentrate on my practice and the little kids mostly respect that. I sometimes take ice at the elite center, and the senior and international skaters are the most respectful of all, and I'm in awe. Me - waltz jump, Them - triple axel, same take off and landing is what I tell myself.

I don't like being on the ice with the pre-teens 8-13 year olds. They're the ones that intimidate me, really. Once a week I'm on that ice and I usually take a dance lesson, so that I have a partner for support as we try not to run them over (although, coach has suggested we do so, but I think it was a joke - was it?)

[skatetiludrop]

Yeah, I often use them as an inspiration but when the rink is full of high-level skaters, I can't help but feel obliged to give them way. Anyway, I agree with what you said about we should appreciate them because it takes them time and hard work before they get to where they are now. I so hope I'll become one of them some day, one of the skaters people watch and wish they'd be able to be like me :D

[Tessie]

Have you ever felt that way? I sometimes have to stop skating when there're too many good skaters doing their stuff. Like when you're trying to perfect a waltz jump and people around you are doing axel, doubles or just simply skating with confident speed. It's just so intimidating :??

remember...we were all beginners at one time or another. Anyone who disrespects a beginner is probably not a very good sportsman (woman) to begin with. Keep trying

[daisies]

remember...we were all beginners at one time or another. Anyone who disrespects a beginner is probably not a very good sportsman (woman) to begin with. Keep trying

I agree, but I have to say, honestly, that it is very frustrating to have beginners on freestyle sessions, which are much different than public sessions. I was not allowed on a freestyle session until I was taught how to skate on one: giving way to people in programs and lessons, not standing in the middle, keeping my head up and watching where I was going, not playing games, etc. I have noticed that beginners these days, at least at my rink, skate in their own little worlds, and that's dangerous for everyone.

[CanAmSk8ter]

I've seen this topic come up before, and whether it's because I'm at a major training center or what I don't know, but while it makes sense to say that the better skater looks out for the lower skater, that's not what I've seen actually happen. When the more experiened skaters continually yield to the less experienced skaters, the beginners don't learn how to yield- or, more importantly, how to recognize when they should and where to go. I'm certainly not out there running down anyone who skates into my way- I'm actually the "OMG she's only six feet away and I don't know if she's going left or right so I'm going to slam on the brakes even though I'm on lesson" type, which drove my old coach insane- but I watch out for the skaters on lesson/program and I expect them to watch for me, regardless of level. Anyone who isn't capable of doing that 99.9% of the time is either too inexperienced or too young to be on a freestyle. (Edited to add, given the choice I'd much rather skate with beginner adults than little kids- at least I get the impression that the adults want to understand and follow the rules!)

I think I'm a little more sensitive to this topic because I'm a dancer. I can't just move three feet to the right or left to accomodate someone else without throwing off my entire pattern. (Obviously if the other skater is on lesson or doing program I'm going to move). But I worry about beginners learning to yield to dancers because if they don't do dance themselves the only way they're going to learn where a pattern goes is probably by being asked to move out of it a few times (and trust me, this doesn't always do it). The people I skate with every day are no problem; even the ones who aren't dancers are good enough skaters to figure out where my pattern is going and to remember it after a few runthroughs. If the dancers stop in their tracks, or call out to a beginner every time they're in the way, that skater isn't going to learn to predict where we're going. Everyone who skates freestyles on a regular basis can recognize a Lutz setup and haul booty out of the corner, or learn which program music goes with which skater, but how many beginners can recognize the Rocker Foxtrot music, identify enough of the dance to figure who's doing it, and make sure they're not in the way of the dancer(s)? And how are they going to learn this if the coach doesn't teach dance? I tell my beginning students, especially young ones, that it's their responsibility to avoid the person with music on, and if they don't know who that is, they need to get over to the boards and out of the way until they figure it out.

To the original poster, I'd say don't worry so much. Intimidation can be a great motivator. As long as you follow the rules and are respectful of the other skaters, you'll probably get to know some of the other skaters eventually, and even the best skaters are usually less intimdating once you know them.

[daisies]

When the more experiened skaters continually yield to the less experienced skaters, the beginners don't learn how to yield- or, more importantly, how to recognize when they should and where to go.

I totally agree! That's how you learn!


I watch out for the skaters on lesson/program and I expect them to watch for me, regardless of level. Anyone who isn't capable of doing that 99.9% of the time is either too inexperienced or too young to be on a freestyle.

Yep!!!


I think I'm a little more sensitive to this topic because I'm a dancer. I can't just move three feet to the right or left to accomodate someone else without throwing off my entire pattern. (Obviously if the other skater is on lesson or doing program I'm going to move).

I'm a dancer too, and the kids just don't get that I can't just "go around" them. It doesn't work that way in dance!


Intimidation can be a great motivator. As long as you follow the rules and are respectful of the other skaters, you'll probably get to know some of the other skaters eventually, and even the best skaters are usually less intimdating once you know them.

Well said! :)

[Chico]

I do agree that a skater should be able to "stand on their own" in a freestyle session. This means keeping your eyes open, giving better skaters space, knowing the "rules"(jump corners and knowing jump set ups, understanding when moves are being done, and correct spinning zones, etc.) and giving way to programs and lessons. Saying that, it does take a few days to get with the flow. I skated with a pair team this week and found it to be a new experience. Once I learned their program and figured out how to best use the ice with them I did fine, but the first day was interesting. These guys move fast and take up more space than normal. I learned to skate right behind them when working on jumps or spinning. This gave me time to set up and jump or spin before their return trip down the ice. I think a skater should be able to keep up with their freestyle peers. Much slower skaters should look for more appropiate ice. It would be less uncomfortable for them and the other skaters. I have found that kids can be very supportive and enjoy this relationship at the rink. Most parents are too. There are always a few in all groups though who make your hair stand up.

Chico

[TashaKat]

Saying that, it does take a few days to get with the flow. I skated with a pair team this week and found it to be a new experience. Once I learned their program and figured out how to best use the ice with them I did fine, but the first day was interesting. These guys move fast and take up more space than normal. I learned to skate right behind them when working on jumps or spinning. This gave me time to set up and jump or spin before their return trip down the ice.

LOL, ITA!! You only get IN FRONT of a Pairs couple once when they're doing their lifts ..... let's just say it's 'change the outfit' time when you do ;)

I have to say, though, that it's not just the kids that get in the way. The WORST problems I've had has been with 1) a teenage skate princess who thought that she owned the ice, that adults shouldn't have been allowed onto HER ice and who wasn't all that anyway (she used to deliberately run you over) and 2) adults who focus so much on what they're doing they don't see what's going on around them. When I was dancing with my ex dance partner we were stood waiting for our compulsories music to come on, this guy was just skating around and decided that we were in his way ..... he actually pushed me in the back to move me! I was absobloodylutely furious, arrogant git, especially as he was ALWAYS in somebody's way! Another time we were doing our free dance, we had to come round the corner anticlockwise, going backwards on a circle .... this adult female thing just carried on doing her forward cross rolls, I thought "she's not going to stop, no, she MUST see us, oh **** my partner is going to get past but I'm not" and was desperately trying to drop hands but he hadn't realised what was happening and had got my hand in a death grip ..... she slammed into me but we were going quite fast at this point so it was her who hit the deck. Funnily enough she was a bit more careful after that!

I do agree, though, that the better skaters are GENERALLY very courteous AND they can stop better, it's not them that I worry about when I'm on the ice :D

[Chico]

Thank goodness I didn't skate in front of those pairs, as I didn't have extra things! =-) I did feel a thrill skating behind them though. Their speed was catching and it was too cool. If I was a kid I just might like to try pairs. Throws and lifts look fun. The challenge of skating at the same tempo looks cool too.

Chico

[TashaKat]

Chico, you can still have a go! I did a few Pairs lessons and I loved it, I only stopped because, well, erm, I'm not awfully sure ...... I quoted something that he'd said on here and he didn't like it (despite the fact that I'd never said anything but good about him and had HUGE amount of respect for him). I always had the feeling that there was something else going on that I didn't know about :cry: You don't dump somebody for one thing that they've said do you? Anyway ..... that's another thread I guess.

My point is ..... why not give it a go?

Have a good weekend everyone




Lx

[Mrs Redboots]

My point is ..... why not give it a go?Maybe Chico is as much of a coward as I am - I hate pairs! Actually, much less than I did, maybe I like them more than I thought I did :?? - I am happy enough with our pivot-spiral now, but haven't yet dared a death-drop. Sadly, I was off the ice on the day when all the pairs stayed on the ice after Camp at the Mountain Cup and worked on their death spirals - I could have had a go then, they didn't look that difficult. But Robert says he's not strong enough to lift me (we've tried, but not on-ice), and I don't know what we'll do about lifts for our free dance in October. And we will NOT TALK about our pairs/dance spin..... but we have managed 2 revolutions, once.....

[skaternum]

Sadly, I was off the ice on the day when all the pairs stayed on the ice after Camp at the Mountain Cup and worked on their death spirals - I could have had a go then, they didn't look that difficult.

Then they must have been doing them well or had excellent instruction, because I can assure you're they harder than they look. The man has to have just the right amount of curve to his pivot; he has to ease the lady out at just the right rate of speed. The lady has to be in just the right postition relative to the man -- not too far in front, not too far behind him; she has to twist her hips about 30 degrees more than God says she should (at least that's what it feels like); she has to fight gravity AND centrifugal force to stay on the correct edge. And assuming they manage all that, then together they have to reverse it all to make sure she can rise up without getting jerked or flung like a rag doll.

So have a go at it! Hee hee. :P

[Sk8Bunny]

If I was a kid I just might like to try pairs. Throws and lifts look fun. The challenge of skating at the same tempo looks cool too.

Chico

Omg, pairs is SO much fun! Definetly try it if you ever get the chance- you will never regret the experience!!

[sk8pics]

I'm a dancer too, and the kids just don't get that I can't just "go around" them. It doesn't work that way in dance!

So, then the dancers should skate on their own blasted sessions. Seriously, I think it's a really bad idea to have freestyle skaters and dancers on the same session. It's dangerous and too many dancers have that attitude of "I must keep on pattern even if it means running people down." I know you have your patterns to follow, but you can't expect everyone else to get out of your way every single time; they won't get anything done and they paid for the ice, too. I know not every rink has separate freestyle and dance sessions, but we do around here and yet some coaches insist on teaching dance on low freestyle sessions or on open freestyle sessions. I don't go running over to the dance sessions to pracctice my jumps, after all! I think a serious accident is only a matter of time. In fact, one of these dance coaches DID knock a girl over and unconscious on a freestyle session one morning!

If an Olympic silver medalist (in dance) can be gracious to me and even apologize for getting in my way during my program :bow: , you'd think the regular dancers and coaches could do that, too. And especially when I try very hard to show them the courtesy of space when they need it as well. Many are very careful, but some...

Sorry for digressing from the original topic, but this is a hot button for me. On the original topic, I always find I skate faster when I'm skating with higher level skaters and that's a good thing for me!

Pat

[singerskates]

I'm starting to get bold and not stop unless another skater is 3 or 4 inches from me. It cost me though at Ann Arbour Spring Skating's practices session where a Junior Competitive Level skater slammed into me while I was spinning and I hit my tailbone. Just Thursday on Ticket Ice I just about jumped on to this Junior Competitive Level skater who was going to try to skate around me when I was going into a split jump while he was on his lesson. Now he already knew my skating path because I went by there 15 times before the same way because it's part of my program. I stopped mid take off and just laughed while he was relieved that I didn't hit him. I had some nice speed going into the split jump too.

But when there are little ones on the ice who are skating preprelim, prelim and junior bronze, I'm much more careful because my mother instinct takes control and I always stop because I just can't bring myself to hurt one of these little ones. I mean if I were to ever crash into one of them, I might kill them. Plus just for safty sake with little ones on the ice, you never know where they will go because one minute they will be practicing what their coach wants them to practice and the next they are playing tag not watching where they are going. Plus they tend to wipe out alot and they are shorter so you have to look down towards the ice so that you want skate over them and trip.

[Isk8NYC]

So, then the dancers should skate on their own blasted sessions.
In my youth, I belonged to a club that had a two-hour session. Every half-hour, the session switched from Freestyle to Dance. If you were doing Dance on a freestyle session, you had to yield to Freestylists, so dancers worked on moves rather than patterns. If you were a freestyle skater, you had to stay right in the middle during the Dance session. One night, I decided to follow the dancers! It was really good for my skating in general, and made me appreciate Dance more.

The Dance sessions were funny, though: they had 30 minute cassettes with someone's ex-husband announcing each dance in a monotone voice. My non-skater husband, to this day, mimics the "Dutch Waltz. Dutch Waltz." announcements anytime someone mentions ice dancing. It was effective for managing the session: no one had to juggle tapes and when the tape ran out, Dance was over.

I really miss that Club. Too bad it folded.

[Isk8NYC]

Have you ever felt that way? I sometimes have to stop skating when there're too many good skaters doing their stuff. Like when you're trying to perfect a waltz jump and people around you are doing axel, doubles or just simply skating with confident speed. It's just so intimidating :??
It can be intimidating -- I sympathize with you. I found that staking out a little corner at first is helpful. Most skaters have some pattern to where they want to place their jumps and spins. (Except the ones that are really looking for attention -- they want you to be their audience.)

During a freestyle (and even during a less-crowded public) session, you can usually find an out-of-the-way spot to practice without distraction. Make sure you're not on a session with skaters that are too advanced. Many rinks have high and low freestyles -- mainly for safety. You can also try different sessions. We used to have a wonderful Wednesday Night session, but the Saturday mornings were scary with crazy, inconsiderate skaters.

Several posters mentioned watching others to figure out their patterns. This only works if the other skater isn't looking for attention. I will suggest saying "sorry" and "Heads Up" if you cut someone off. Too many kids today refuse to apologize, even when it's their fault.

I usually have to stop and watch because I'm too tired to keep going!

[icenut84]

I'm certainly not out there running down anyone who skates into my way- I'm actually the "OMG she's only six feet away and I don't know if she's going left or right so I'm going to slam on the brakes even though I'm on lesson" type, which drove my old coach insane

Me too! I'm exactly like that and it annoys my coaches too. Even if I'm in a lesson, I always feel like I have to yield to other skaters. Even if there's actually room for both of us to get past, I have to stop what I'm doing till I've got ample space again. My coaches jokingly say I should elbow the other skater out of the way, lol. I've always been like that though - even when I did gymnastics, I had to have lots of room before I'd do something - I felt uncomfortable doing e.g. a cartwheel if there was anyone standing within about 5 feet of me. I was always scared of kicking someone, even though there was probably no chance that I would have. (I got kicked in the face once by someone going into a handstand.)

On the ice though, no matter if I'm in a lesson or setting up for something/in the middle of an element or pattern, it's always me that moves for the other skater. Can't help it. Some of the other skaters always assume they've got right of way anyway.

Back to the original topic though - I can totally sympathise with feeling inferior to other higher-level skaters. I very often feel like that too. Sometimes, I can be practicing something like a 1 foot spin and be fine, concentrating etc, but then someone else comes on and starts doing much more advanced elements like camels or something, and I immediately feel uncomfortable and feel stupid if I carry on practicing my pathetic excuse for spins. I know I shouldn't, but I do. :(

[TashaKat]

I am happy enough with our pivot-spiral now, but haven't yet dared a death-drop. Sadly, I was off the ice on the day when all the pairs stayed on the ice after Camp at the Mountain Cup and worked on their death spirals - I could have had a go then, they didn't look that difficult. ...

Yes they are!!! I've had a go at them and they ARE NOT as easy as they look ..... you end up polishing the ice quite a few times ;)

Why not try an 'Old Man's Death Spiral' (trademark Lynne & Will)?

http://img48.photobucket.com/albums/v146/TashaKat/Death_Spiral_PB.jpg

You skate into it CCW backwards, he goes into pivot on a RBO edge with left toe in the ice, he holds your right hand in his right hand, you lift your left leg up and he grabs your boot/blade so that you're in a 'sortasplits' position (this can be as 'splits' or as non splits as you want) .... do what you want with your left hand/arm.

It's not that easy to see from the pic but he's got my left foot in his left hand. It's a GREAT feeling and not that difficult.

Lx

[skaternum]

If I was a kid I just might like to try pairs. Throws and lifts look fun. The challenge of skating at the same tempo looks cool too.

Chico

You don't have to be a kid to try pairs. I started skating at 30, and started skating pairs at 38. My partner was 39 when we started. The throws are fun, and the lifts are fun too when they go right. :P It's a lot of fun to work together and try to skate as one. It's much harder than it looks, but it's worth it. We suck at it, but we have a blast!

[johnfisher]

This is certainly a thread which is close to my heart!

One of the session I skate at was until recently a great session to train at and is the only non-first-thing-in-the-morning session I can get to. Unfortunately it has recently been subject to a large influx of lower level skaters who have absolutely no concept of what a freestyle session is for. We have groups of skaters who congregate in groups chatting, others who work on their crossovers on the hockey circles in the jump corners! and others who are just generally oblivious to anything else that is happening on the ice. Most annoyingly of all when their actions inconvenience those skaters who are actually trying to train, they do not seem to learn from it. I have started my programme and had to stop because of someone being in the way at a vital point, restarted and then still had them in the way a second time. Once is readily forgivable but twice in immediate succession isn't. Even more surprisingly this doesn't only apply to young kids. We have beginner adults with absolutely no awareness of what else is happening on the ice. Unfortunately the coaches at this particular rink are abysmal at enforcing any kind of rules on freestyle sessions, and this particular session has been worst affected by this.

I have to absolutely disagree with the poster who advocated staking out a patch of ice to work on. More advanced skaters need to use the whole ice surface and there is nothing more annoying than someone persistently being in the one bit of ice that you need to use for a jump set up, a dance or whatever. It doesn't matter what level you are if you are on a freestyle session you should be using the entire ice surface and in fact you will be less in the way by doing so. (It will also make you a better skater - there is no advantage whatsoever to only skating in 1/8 of the rink). Of course this requires you to have some awareness of the other skaters, but if you are on a freestyle session you should have this anyway. Staking out your patch of ice then blithely ignoring everything else which is going on, thinking that you are out of the way is not being considerate to other skaters. (this isn't a dig at Isk8NYC - I realise that I have exaggerated greatly what he/she was suggesting but not beyond what I have witnessed on the ice).

One other point to make is that someone mentioned that dancers are unable to move their pattern three feet to one side to accomodate someone who is in the way, but it is often overlooked that this applies equally to higher level freeskaters. If you watch a skater working on a jump you will see that the tracings from repeated attempts are often within inches of one another. The precise positioning of the jump and it's entire setup is just as important for a freestyler as the placement of a pattern is for a dancer.

With regards to the original post I think the bottom line is that higher level skaters are unconcerned by what level the other skaters on the ice are at, but all skaters suffer when skaters of any level don't use the ice with due consideration for eachother.

John

[Chico]

Cool picture lynne. =-)

I'm not a chicken gal. I used to give my old coach heart attacks trying some skills. I sorta sprung 2 loops on him. =-) I'm too brave for my own good sometimes. I don't think fear would hold me back on pairs. If I want something enough I'm stupid enough to try.

I'm a mom and a married gal. (happily) Anyhow, I find time to practice singles a challenge some days. My husband would NOT like me skating pairs with anyone. I can understand this. I'm happy with doing singles and watching the pairs. I did skate with my old coach on an occasion and had fun doing so. I got a taste. =-)

Chico

[dooobedooo]

Just wanted to add ....

If you are a lower level skater, you can help faster skaters a lot to predict your movements, if you maintain speed and direction, and look in the direction you are going.

There is nothing more aggravating (for a faster skater) than spotting a slower skater from miles off, making allowances for them, and then suddenly finding that they make an abrupt change of direction or speed as you approach near (often because they are being scared-y), so that you have to suddenly put on the brakes and abort what you are doing.

And please, please, be aware of whose music is playing. I was recently on a patch with just three people, when one lower level adult skater consistently got in my way when I was on the music (not intentionally, just by not paying attention, and by dithering about). It was very difficult to keep that fixed smile in place, I can tell you. And if you are not skating, *please* get off the ice!! Don't stand aimlessly four feet from the barrier in a dream, wondering what you are going to do next.

Anybody done any driving in a sheepfarming area? Well, please don't behave like those sheep who suddenly decide to (a) stop crossing the road and stop still in front of your car or (b) change direction in a mass and start trotting along down the road in front of your car, or whatever ....

[Mrs Redboots]

Our ice was packed out this morning as there is a competition this evening, and I found it very difficult. Robert and I abandoned our normal warm-up routine, as the elite dancers were going around with their usual abandon, plus all the kids who are usually still safely in bed at that hour on a Sunday morning! We had one collision when we were running through our programme - fortunately we both stayed upright, and I was able to carry on as though nothing had happened - and at least once had to abandon the one bit of our programme we were practising as there kept being children in that corner, until our coach went and stood there. But this is fairly normal for us, mixed sessions, mixed abilities - we seem to manage, whatever! If in doubt, "Oh, sorry!" helps......

[luna_skater]

On the ice though, no matter if I'm in a lesson or setting up for something/in the middle of an element or pattern, it's always me that moves for the other skater. Can't help it. Some of the other skaters always assume they've got right of way anyway.

I have a similar problem to both you and CanAmSkater. It's spring school here, and the ice is PACKED. Although the sessions are divided up by ability (Intermediate, Senior/High Performance), that is really just more of a guideline. We skate whenever it works for our coaches. So I am considered HP (working on my last gold dance...testing it next week), but I skate Wednesday nights on an Intermediate freestyle session. I'm not the only one; there are a couple of skaters out there working on Sr. Silver dances and Jr. Silver skills (like me), as well. When I'm running through the dance (the Westminster) by myself at the start of my lesson, I am dodging people left, right, and center. It's like an obstacle course. Some kids see you coming and can get out of the way, some know me and know what I'm working on so they move, and some coaches are oblivious to the world around them. :roll: But most of the time, I end up adjusting my pattern because I am a strong enough skater to make adjustments to get out of their way, and get back on my pattern. It is easier for me to move than to try and guess if they are going to or not.

When I'm partnering the dance with my coach, we are much less lenient. We have the right of way, and it's way harder to get two people to make adjustments. However, we are also easier to notice coming when it is the two of us skating the dance.

The other night I was at the rink for a meeting, and stayed afterward to pick up some extra ice. It was on a HP freestyle session, but the club doesn't have stiff restrictions about dancers being out there. I got really frustrated after a while with so many people out there; however, I kept in mind that I wasn't in a lesson, I was a dancer on a freestyle session, and I had just picked up the ice, not registered for it. But although I don't think I was justified in having the right of way at any point, it would be nice if some of the skaters would show some courtesy once in a while and make an allowance so I could get one freaking pattern completed.

One other point...I think it is much easier for me to move when I am doing forward skating, turns, edges, etc., and can be moving my head to see what's coming...than for a freeskater who's skating backwards at a high speed, trying to set up that perfect timing to hit a triple jump. And I think I also find it easier to make adjustments from my synchro background. I find it very easy to contort my body into odd positions and just keep skating. :)

[skateflo]

A couple of things come into play. Many adults at low levels have an acute peripheral vision sense so that anything within 15 feet feels like you will be in their way. It can take years to lesson that vision radius and feel comfortable doing something. It used to drive my coach nuts too when I would stop if I felt someone was getting too close to me as I did not feel I had the fast reflexes necessary to get out of the way of a high speed skater.

After awhile you do get to know who on the ice is also aware of skaters around them and who is not. You learn to avoid the 'nots.'

Being intimidated is part of being a newbie - I remember hugging the walls for years except in lesson. As your skating confidence grows, you will expand your skating circle.

Obviously the types of skaters, numbers of skaters and coaches on the ice, makes a huge difference from session to session. I stopped going to one session as I counted 42 on the ice (with 16 coaches) and so many young ones that only have eyes for their coach and fail to even look right or left as they skate back to the boards.

The best thing our rink finally instituted was a neon-orange pullover stretchy vest that the person doing their program to music must wear. When the vests wear out or 'disappear' you really understand how valuable they are. I wish one of the skating companies (clothes, assessories) would sell them. Our home made ones just don't last. If a company does sell them, please post it!

[CanAmSk8ter]

So, then the dancers should skate on their own blasted sessions. Seriously, I think it's a really bad idea to have freestyle skaters and dancers on the same session. It's dangerous and too many dancers have that attitude of "I must keep on pattern even if it means running people down."
Pat

What, you think I choose to skate on freestyle? No way ;). If my rink offered dance-only session none of us would skate freestyles. But we can hardly afford to keep having freestyle sessions, let alone separate ones for the 5 or 6 non-elite dancers we have. I'm lucky that I can skate during school hours and it's usually me, a pair team, and sometimes another dancer or two at my level on the ice. I avoid after-school sessions at all costs; that's when I run into problems. I don't want to think about what's going to happen next week when the kids are out of school... luckily a lot of our beginners take from two of the skaters I train with so at least they're not usually on the ice when we are. It's not a matter of "I must keep on pattern if it means running people down"... it's a matter of "I paid for this ice too, my music is on, and since I'm sure as heck not going to get through a pattern without stopping for somebody when my music ISN'T on, I expect that when my music is on, people will move". I move for the freeskaters on program, they need to move for me when I'm doing music. I expect that when I'm doing a new dance, or sharing the ice with someone who doesn't know the higher dances there will be near misses and I may have to stop occasionally, but it shouldn't happen on a regular basis with the same skater or two.

Speaking of the attitudes of dancers/freestylers, has anyone else run into the attitude of "I don't have to move, he/she's only doing dance?" I used to get that a lot at my first rink- luckily, with the caliber of dancers that train at my rink now, NOBODY says anything like that! Well, one of my friends does, but he only says it to bug me;)

[luna_skater]

Speaking of the attitudes of dancers/freestylers, has anyone else run into the attitude of "I don't have to move, he/she's only doing dance?"

I haven't run into that explicitly, but that's certainly what it feels like most of the time. However, much of it is just teenagers with attitude, also. I've only been skating regularly at this rink since September, and I didn't skate with this club last summer. Most of the skaters at this club have been there a long time, and I get the "Who the hell is she?" feeling a lot. So it doesn't help that on top of that, I'm only working on dance and skills. Most of the coaches know me because I have kind of a reputation--in a good way, lol. I'm "That girl who was working on her prelim dances last May!" And a number of the skaters do for that reason also. However, even though I've been skating longer than most of those kids have been alive, I still feel intimidated by the free skaters because I have never been a free skater myself.

[Figureskates]

As a last resort I can give them a nasty paper cut with my AARP card or trip them with my walker!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[NCSkater02]

As a last resort I can give them a nasty paper cut with my AARP card or trip them with my walker!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Can we get those walkers on blades? :lol:

[timing]

The best thing our rink finally instituted was a neon-orange pullover stretchy vest that the person doing their program to music must wear. When the vests wear out or 'disappear' you really understand how valuable they are.

Neon orange vests work really well. One of the rinks my daughter skates at uses orange mesh vests. They are adult sized so the kids take the front corners, cross them, pull tight and tie a big knot. I've also seen wide colored belts used for the person whose music is being played. They are very visible on some costumes but disappear into others.

Here most of the ice time is for hockey so we don't have separate dance, pairs, freestyle or moves session or sessions grouped by test levels. The person with the vest whose music is playing has the right of way. When the fastest skaters are wearing the vest, the slowest ones tend to stay at the boards or even get off the ice for a water break.

[sk8pics]

What, you think I choose to skate on freestyle? No way ;). If my rink offered dance-only session none of us would skate freestyles.
Well here we DO have dance only sessions, and yet we have coaches teaching higher level dancers on low freestyle sessions, at times.
it's a matter of "I paid for this ice too, my music is on, and since I'm sure as heck not going to get through a pattern without stopping for somebody when my music ISN'T on, I expect that when my music is on, people will move". I move for the freeskaters on program, they need to move for me when I'm doing music.
I wasn't talking about YOU specifically. And I will say that it doesn't seem to matter to SOME people WHOSE music is on. I have been nearly run down a number of times by dancers whose music was NOT on. And in fact, that's happened to me when I am IN A LESSON WITH MY COACH and MY MUSIC IS ON and they STILL don't get out of the way.

Speaking of the attitudes of dancers/freestylers, has anyone else run into the attitude of "I don't have to move, he/she's only doing dance?"

I have never heard anyone say that.

I think the problem is a lack of common courtesy by some, certainly not all, people. All I ask is a bit of consideration in return for showing it. And I don't think it's too much to ask if a coach or dancer (it's more rare that the freestylers do this, but it does happen) should please get out of my way if you're just meandering across the ice and I'm trying to do my program.

End of rant.