Why private lessons?

[Kelli]

My sister and I were chatting and started to compare figure skating to gymnastics (I'm the skater, she was the gymnast a few years and knee surgeries ago). Gymnasts workout in groups all the way through the elite level, while skaters generally start private lessons before they even begin testing (I mean USFSA testing here, though it probably applies to other situations as well). The sports have a lot in common, so why the difference? And for those who have done groups at camps or clinics, how did they compare to your standard private lesson?

She thinks it's a scam, I think it's cheaper than a therapist. :D

[batikat]

I do think there could be a lot more done in group lessons as long as the group sizes were kept to reasonable levels but the main difference surely is that in a gym, (aside from not having to cope with limited time due to hockey and public sessions) you can have several groups working at any one time on a number of pieces of equipment set up around the gym. Skating has only one piece of equipment in that sense - the whole ice sheet. So while you can have groups for learning jumps etc, as soon as you get to needing programmes each skater needs to use the entire ice sheet. In a half hour session each coach might manage to get his or her skaters music played only once or twice so it is not possible for each coach to take several skaters doing programmes in one lesson as not all would get a chance to run programmes.

Having said that my two children have had mostly joint lessons from the start and luckily have kept pace wth each other pretty well but if I want both of them to get a chance to run their programmes it usually is only possible if I book a 45 min lesson and the coach then runs through field moves, jump practice etc with both of them to start and then takes each individually for 15 mins while the other practices. Many coaches however will not take more than one skater at a time.

Our rink does run group lessons in an Academy at weekends with several coaches on the ice taking groups of different levels and working on the appropriate jumps and spins for the levels. However the problem comes when some skaters haven't taken tests they could easily have passed because they want to win competitions at the lower level yet want special treatment when it comes to the groups because they think their little one should be in with the next level up. I don't know how gymnasts cope - maybe they are able to work more at their own pace within the groups but for skating the various levels require different jumps etc to be taught. I'm sure some clubs manage this well but the alternatives - grouping by jump ability for e.g. doesn't seem to work well either as often the footwork, spinning etc abilities are not in line with the jumping ability level.

Oh - and I definitely agree with you about the therapist bit!!:lol:

[Jade]

I think having a private coach for this level (preliminary and up)
Is fine because even though the coaches may cost, At my club you can get coaches to work work in a group with some of the younger loew leveled skaters and that really does bring the cost down quite a bit!

[JDC1]

It depends on the size of the group, are the levels even and is everyone getting equal attention. I've done both and I don't think my group lesson experience came close to my private lessons particularly when it comes to stroking and carriage etc. I've chosen to pay the extra money for private lessons even though I'm not exactly well off.

[Mrs Redboots]

At least one rink in this country only offers group lessons, no matter how advanced the skaters, and no private lessons at all. However, these lessons go on for an hour, and there might be as few as 2 or 3 skaters in a group, so plenty of individual attention is available.

My husband loathes private lessons, he's very self-conscious and would far rather have group lessons if they were available at our rink for skaters of our level. He's fine sharing a lesson with me, but won't take more than 15 minutes' private lesson a week for himself, even though I think he'd do better with more. Mind you, he kindly had my lessons for me yesterday when I couldn't get out of bed, but then, not to have done so would have been to have wasted the lesson fee....

I find that group lessons can be very worthwhile for some things, but you do need private attention to iron out faults and errors that have inadvertently crept into your skating that a group coach might not notice. But for learning a new dance, or field moves, or whatever, group lessons are excellent. And children often benefit simply because they are not willing to be outskated, so if A can do an axel-double-toe combination, then B will not rest until she can, too!

[Kelli]

Originally posted by Mrs Redboots

I find that group lessons can be very worthwhile for some things, but you do need private attention to iron out faults and errors that have inadvertently crept into your skating that a group coach might not notice. But for learning a new dance, or field moves, or whatever, group lessons are excellent. And children often benefit simply because they are not willing to be outskated, so if A can do an axel-double-toe combination, then B will not rest until she can, too!

But gymnasts in group classes must somehow get those faults fixed, as do ballet dancers. And I know we skaters aren't any "slower" than gymnasts or dancers! I think I agree with Batikat that it has more to do with gymnasts being able to use mutiple pieces of equipment.

Gymnasts all do their routines, and the ones who aren't going presumably sit on the side doing something productive. Why couldn't a coach watch one skater at a time while the rest of the skaters in the group practiced while not getting in the other skater's way?

I'm totally playing devil's advocate here, because I have somewhere between an hour and two hours worth of private lessons each week. I'm just trying to figure out what the difference is.

[Jade]

Well, Yes i do agree with JDC1 that it is better to fork out for the private lessons where you get 1 on 1 attention!
but defenitly for stroking i would advise gettingn a 5-1 ratio coach !
It definetly lowers the cost!

[batikat]

Another difference I see between gymnasts and skaters is that due to the nature of the sport and equipment I would imagine that gymnasts are not allowed to use the equipment without a coach present. Therefore in order to accomodate all those who want to do gymnastics there would be little alternative to group lessons. By contrast whilst skaters may pay for the undivided attention of a coach they also have the opportunity to do lots of unsupervised practice on the ice. If a skater was only allowed on the ice with a coach you could be sure there would be almost nothing but group lessons or else there would be very few people able to skate at all!!

Also there are team competitions in gymnastics wheras there is very little in the way of team competitions in skating. Synchro skating is an exception and I imagine this is a cheaper way to enjoy skating if you are a team oriented person as coaching costs can be shared.

To compare skating to ballet is misleading as in general the aim of ballet dancers is to perform with others in a show or exhibition - the corps de ballet need to practice together. For ballet tests etc the same music can be used for all the dancers.

Where there are group lessons for skaters it is definitely worth taking advantage of them if possible. I do group lessons in figures, dance moves, Annies Edges and a jumps and spins class but I still need private lessons as well in order to prepare programmes for competition and tests and in addition I do 4-6 hours practice on my own.

[batikat]

Originally posted by Mrs Redboots


My husband loathes private lessons, he's very self-conscious and would far rather have group lessons if they were available at our rink for skaters of our level. He's fine sharing a lesson with me, but won't take more than 15 minutes' private lesson a week for himself, even though I think he'd do better with more.

I'd have thought a group lesson is the worst possible thing for someone who is self-conscious. :oops: In a private lesson nobody but your own coach takes a blind bit of notice of you as they are all too busy doing their own thing but in a group lesson everyone is all too aware of how everyone else is doing. Or am I missing something here?????:)

[Elsy2]

I was on a gymnastic team for 6 years....back in the stone age :roll: I'm sure alot has changed in the way things are done. But I thought I'd point out that although we were a team, we really did compete solo on every piece of equipment. We vyed for individual medals in each category of equipment, and also an "all around" medal. This is very much like skating, where the "team" members compete solo, but may perhaps pick up a team trophy when the competition offers this.

As for use of equipment, we definitely used equipment without a coaches supervision.

We usually got individual attention during our turn on a piece of equipment. There were days when you did not get any individual attention.

I see alot of similarities between the sports, but am not familiar with gymnastic coaches and their compensation these days. It certainly has to be more lucrative for skating coaches to teach privates. In skating we contract with our individual coaches directly. They are not necessarily employees of the rink.

I suppose most times a gymnastics coach is hired to coach the entire team....So I think part of the answer is just the way the sports have evolved over time. It's the way it's been done for years...

Just a few thoughts, I really don't have the answer!

[Justine_R]

I personaly like the individual attention.:D:D

[reeta]

I'll just put in an example of another kind of system...
In our club (in Finland) all lessons are group lessons and I guess the situation is pretty similar in other clubs as well, so I guess it is possible to do without private lessons. The difference is that there is no separate practise ice and lessons, but the coach is always there. All skaters still get some individual attention, while others practise. Of course, the more advanced the skaters are, the smaller the groups.

I think the reason why private lessons practically do not exist, is that there is no free ice time available, because of ice hockey taking up any possible free slot...

Batikat, I'm taking group lesson once a week, and believe me, in a group of 20 you do not get any attention unless you want so, and anyways, I'm usually so concentrated on practising I see hardly anything what is happening around me :)

[batikat]

Originally posted by reeta
I'm taking group lesson once a week, and believe me, in a group of 20 you do not get any attention unless you want so, and anyways, I'm usually so concentrated on practising I see hardly anything what is happening around me :)

I used to have group lessons for learn to skate and we had 25 or more in our first few level classes and you are right that you dont' get much attention! Though we always had plenty of time to look at what other people were doing as we would get bored practising the same thing over and over while waiting for the coach to come and see us. Small group are different though and in my jumps and spins class we have usually only 3 or 4 and we do often watch each other to learn from what other people are doing.

originally posted by Elsy2
although we were a team, we really did compete solo on every piece of equipment.
I see your point but I think there is much more of an ethos of being in a team in gymnastics - in competitions they often wear the same 'team' leotards etc. There also seems to be a lot more in the way of inter-club competions (where gymnasts compete as individuals but there is a team prize too). There are very few interclub competitions in skating - our club (the biggest in the UK)is involved in two a year,one of which involves only 4-8 skaters (out of about 150 active skaters in the club)and both of those look in danger of dying out at the moment.

As for use of equipment, we definitely used equipment without a coaches supervision.
That surprises me - but I assume you were at a reasonably high level to be allowed to do this? Whereas anyone can go on the ice at a public session and once passed a very basic level of competence - on patch too.

To look at the original question from the opposite direction - I am wondering how much use private lessons would be to most gymnasts? Even if you had your own coach, you would still be queueing with everyone else to use the equipment; whereas in ice skating your coach can be teaching you on any part of the ice while everyone else is also being coached or practising.

It would presumably be prohibitively expensive to have to hire your own coach plus hire the private use of the equipment in the gym. If you had say horse, beam, parallell bars, floor plus the mens stuff (sorry can't remember all the names of the equipment) so you could have only 8 or 10 people and the scheduling problem doesn't bear thinking about!! And maybe the waiting time in gymnastics groups has a positive angle in allowing you time to recover - could you do constant vaulting for 15 mins? or a floor routine continuously
for 15 mins? So instead of a concentrated 15 min private lesson a gymnast probably gets more benefit out of an hour long group lesson. In skating you can practice jumps over and over and if you get tired you can switch to spins or footwork which are (maybe I should say can be) less strenuous, or work on a small aspect of the programme and then after the lesson can practice on your own.

[Mrs Redboots]

Originally posted by batikat
I'd have thought a group lesson is the worst possible thing for someone who is self-conscious. :oops: In a private lesson nobody but your own coach takes a blind bit of notice of you as they are all too busy doing their own thing but in a group lesson everyone is all too aware of how everyone else is doing. Or am I missing something here?????:) I think he finds working with other people takes the pressure off - the coach isn't looking at him all the time. However, since he's started competing solo, he's much less self-conscious on the ice, anyway.

[batikat]

Originally posted by Mrs Redboots
I think he finds working with other people takes the pressure off - the coach isn't looking at him all the time. However, since he's started competing solo, he's much less self-conscious on the ice, anyway.

He shouldnt be self-conscious at all anyway - he's really good!

[IceDreams]

I agree with the poster that said if one skater is doing an axel-double toe, the other skater won't rest until she/he can do it also. At my rink there is a group of girls around the age of 10-13 at the pre juvenile - juvenile level. Their coach just recently started doing group lessons where she'll take, let's say, three of them that are all in the same level. They will have a group lesson for 30 minutes or so, then they have a "competition" and each skater does her program. Whoever lands the most jumps and gives the best performance "wins." They are a lot more enthusiastic about skating now and are improving faster. I think it's a really great training tool for young skaters.

[Mrs Redboots]

Originally posted by batikat
He shouldnt be self-conscious at all anyway - he's really good! Yes, isn't he - I hate him! :mrgreen:

Still not skating; tomorrow, I hope.

[dani]

While I wouldn't give up privates, I would love a good group lesson with people around my level. I learn a lot listening to the mistakes other people make as well as the things they can do that cause me troubles. Sometime listening to a coach explain something to another skater causes a lightbulb to go off in my head.

I have a joint off-ice lesson with my 11 year old friend, and that is helpful, too!

Hugs!!
Danielle

[Elsy2]

[i]As for use of equipment, we definitely used equipment without a coaches supervision.
That surprises me - but I assume you were at a reasonably high level to be allowed to do this? Whereas anyone can go on the ice at a public session and once passed a very basic level of competence - on patch too.

To look at the original question from the opposite direction - I am wondering how much use private lessons would be to most gymnasts? Even if you had your own coach, you would still be queueing with everyone else to use the equipment; whereas in ice skating your coach can be teaching you on any part of the ice while everyone else is also being coached or practising.

It would presumably be prohibitively expensive to have to hire your own coach plus hire the private use of the equipment in the gym. If you had say horse, beam, parallell bars, floor plus the mens stuff (sorry can't remember all the names of the equipment) so you could have only 8 or 10 people and the scheduling problem doesn't bear thinking about!! And maybe the waiting time in gymnastics groups has a positive angle in allowing you time to recover - could you do constant vaulting for 15 mins? or a floor routine continuously
for 15 mins? So instead of a concentrated 15 min private lesson a gymnast probably gets more benefit out of an hour long group lesson. In skating you can practice jumps over and over and if you get tired you can switch to spins or footwork which are (maybe I should say can be) less strenuous, or work on a small aspect of the programme and then after the lesson can practice on your own. [/B]

batikat - I agree with everything you say here, and so that's pretty much the answer I would go with for this question!

As for using the equipment unsupervised, we were responsible for spotting our teamates on all the equipment. Most times you needed spotting for just certain "tricks", and you would ask for a spotter when you needed it.

[Justine_R]

When you have private lessons , you definetly have more of an advantage because you are getting one on one attention...But some people cant afford the one on one attention so a grup could definetly work, and you cant say that it dosent lower the $$.

I would definetly recommend the group session for some of the younger basic level skaters, its great and fun too!