ISI vs USFSA

[dbny]

I attended an ISI coaching seminar yesterday, and one of the speakers said something that seemed to exemplify the difference to me: "USFSA is about elimination, while ISI is about participation". Personally, I prefer the USFSA programs, but have long felt that the extreme discordance between the test requirements and the elements allowed in competition for the corresponding levels has been a damper on many a child. I realize that possibly the most important function of the USFSA is to develope world class elite skaters, but I don't see why it is necessary to discourage so many "lesser" skaters in the process.

[AshBugg44]

ISI is great for beginning skaters. Obviously if you ever hope to go to Nationals and the Olympics, you eventually have to switch over. I have never witnessed the USFSA group classes, as my rink does ISI but I find them great. Ever since I started competing USFSA, I have not really wanted to do ISI much anymore, because in the long run, it's just not as important and impressing.

[dbny]

Originally posted by AshBugg44
Obviously if you ever hope to go to Nationals and the Olympics, you eventually have to switch over.

This is my point, exactly. The percentage of kids who start skating and actually make it to Nationals is very small, and of course, even smaller to the Olympics. I think the USFSA would do well to make itself more inclusive at the non-qualifying levels. We do want more skaters, not fewer, right?

[MissIndigo]

This is just my opinion, but I feel the USFSA is the superior organization for adult skating. Even as frustrated as I am with testing right now, I still intend to continue in this track for the variety that is offered. I want the opportunity to test MITF and with USFSA, I get that chance.

I also like the inclusion of more compulsory-type events in USFSA competitions, including footwork without needing music and my favorites, the spin events.

[flo]

USFSA is not just for the Olympic hopefuls. Having been in both, the greatest distinction I found was in the quality of not only the skating, but in the testing and judging and there were also no accomodations for adults. There was not much of a challenge for me in ISI. This was many years ago, so things may have changed.
I have also found this difference in the running of the rink which is ISI. We wanted to have an adult show with skaters of all levels from around the region who were primarily USFSA. The woman who runs the rink said that our adults "were too good, and that we would scare off the other skaters"

[Mel On Ice]

I skate both and like them for different reasons.

ISI is more inclusive, and I feel more comfortable knowing I'm competing against someone who is exactly at my skill level. Because there is a rule against using skills from an upper level, I'm not going to get blown away in a FS3 competition because someone threw out a lutz jump at me.

But USFSA is much more competitive, and that pushes me to constantly improve and strive for more.

The thing I do hate is competing up since there are relatively few pre-bronze competitions. I just know I will be finishing at the bottom with just a toe loop, sal and loop because I am competing against lutzes and flips.

ISI is more encouraging to skaters to compete at their level; the USFSA levels seem to encourage more sandbagging. I know of numerous bronze level skaters that should be silver but won't test because then they would become the bottom-feeders in silver. Yes ladies, it does suck to come in last...

[Terri C]

Originally posted by Mel On Ice
I

The thing I do hate is competing up since there are relatively few pre-bronze competitions. I just know I will be finishing at the bottom with just a toe loop, sal and loop because I am competing against lutzes and flips.

ISI is more encouraging to skaters to compete at their level; the USFSA levels seem to encourage more sandbagging. I know of numerous bronze level skaters that should be silver but won't test because then they would become the bottom-feeders in silver. Yes ladies, it does suck to come in last...


I used to do ISI, but I often was competing "against the book" or there was one other skater that I'd blow out the window! Plus, my rink is no longer a ISI rink.
I, too am a Pre- Bronze competitor and HATE skating up, but my coach and I just want for me to skate a clean program when that happens!

[CanAmSk8ter]

I did my first ISI competition last weekend. I did USFSA learn-to-skate and never did any ISI tests until last year. I started teaching ISI about four years ago, so I'm very familiar with the program.

I don't know how to describe what it is I don't like about ISI. I guess because most ISI skaters aren't training on a regular basis with competitive-level skaters, they often seem to have an inflated sense of how accoplished they are. Maybe because when you go to an ISI competition the best skaters you'll see are probably Freestyle 4, where the USFSA learn-to-skate competitions often include Pre-Pre and Pre events. I always feel abd when I read the kids' letter in ISI magazine and these kids say they're 12 years old and in Freestyle 1, or that they're 10 and in Beta and they've been skating for three years, and they want to go to the Olympics. One little girl who was 10 and in Freestyle 3 thought that when you passed Freestyle 10 you automatically went to Olympics- and she was basically taking it for granted that she would do so. I think ISI should be more up front with kids and parents about the sacrifices it takes to go to the Olympics- and that at some point they have to do USFSA.

I had a blast at the ISI competition on the Cape. I'm definitely planning to continue doing both. I'm already hoping to go to WInter Classic and to Adult CHAMPS next year, but I'm also going to do the big USFSA events in my area.

[dbny]

Originally posted by CanAmSk8ter
I always feel abd when I read the kids' letter in ISI magazine and these kids say they're 12 years old and in Freestyle 1, or that they're 10 and in Beta and they've been skating for three years, and they want to go to the Olympics. One little girl who was 10 and in Freestyle 3 thought that when you passed Freestyle 10 you automatically went to Olympics- and she was basically taking it for granted that she would do so. I think ISI should be more up front with kids and parents about the sacrifices it takes to go to the Olympics- and that at some point they have to do USFSA.

This isn't just ISI. My daughter has always skated USFSA and we have always belonged to a USFSA club until recently, when we went independent USFSA. I've seen quite a few kids (not just girls) who think they are going to the Olympics, when it's clear to anyone who knows the rules and knows the competition, that they are not. I think some of it has to do with the coaches, and some with the parents. There is a fine line between letting a child down gently, and totally dashing their hopes and fantasies. I have also, unfortunately, seen a few coaches lead the kids and their parents on in totally unrealistic beliefs about competitive success.

As far as kids being in Beta after skating 3 years, I think that has a lot more to do with how often the kids get to skate and with how seriously their parents approach the sport. We always knew our daughter was not top rank material, but she loved skating and wanted to skate all the time her first year. As a result, she had an axel after one year. Then she decided she wanted a life outside the rink also, and slowed down. I teach in a (USFSA) skating school wich is in it's third season, and although we do have kids who started with us, there are precious few who have gone on to private lessons and skating more than once a week or skating at all after the season is over. That's where the 3 year Beta skaters come from.

[CanAmSk8ter]

Oh, I know. I'm starting my fourth year teaching at my current rink, and we have kids who literally skate only from November to March every year. They pass one or two levels each year and as a result kids I taught in 2000 as Tot 2s are just now moving to Pre-Alpha. (of course, when they haven't skated in six to eight months, their skill levels will be nowhere near Pre-Alpha at this point, but that's another thread altogether). I guess that's part of what I'm getting at, though- these kids who talk about wanting to go to Olympics, their parents need to have someone explain to them what that entails. Obviously in Learn-to-Skate we're not talking about skating five days a week and having private lessons, but when these kids are already seven and eight years old, if they really want to make it in skating they need to be skating most if not all of the year. Granted, six months down the road most of them will decide they'd rather play soccer or do karate or what have you, but it seems like they and there parents should be given all the information to make a decision and not have the parents think that if they enroll an eight-year-old in Basic 1 there's plenty of time for her to skate year-round when she's older. It's like with equipment- I don't hesitate to tell a parent that their child is at a point where he/she needs to have his/her own skates, or that his/her skates from Wal-Mart aren't cutting it anymore and it's time to buy a real pair. (I do it slightly more diplomatically than that, of course;)). I feel bad telling the parents they should really be spending more money on the sport, but I think it's my responsibility to let them know that their child isn't getting the benefit from lessons that he/she could be because of their skates.

And I do think practice time has something to do with it. I don't understand why, when these kids get to Gamma or Delta, they aren't coming to public skate once a week to practice. Actually, I guess at our rink I kind of can understand it, because the skate guards don't do anything about keeping kids who are just fooling around out of the center, and the learn-to-skate kids really aren't ready to be on freestyle sessions without a coach- although since my rink allows anyone on freestyle, they technically could do it.

[Skatewind]

I don't understand why you consider it a "vs." situation when there are many difference in objectives & goals. ISI is an organization who addresses commercial endeavors in skating, recreationally or otherwise, which are similar but not the same as USFSA. But I disagree USFSA does not address the needs of beginning skaters with their learn to skate programs. The main reason rinks often use the ISI learn to skate program is because it has been directly tailored for the ease of rink management. However, almost all the skaters I know who have participated in both USFSA & ISI learn to skate have told me they prefer the quality of the USFSA basic skills lessons & feel they learned better skills during their beginning lessons using this program. It seems to me there is a definite quality difference between the two from the start, but either one can be very useful in it's own right.

[quarkiki2]

My rink teaches ISI, but another local rink does USFSA. I have compared the elements and actually prefer the way USFSA is structured for adults, especially in the early classes.

I always though it was insane that in ISI you learn mohawks and FO3s before you learn forward or backward edges. I like that USFSA has you learning the edges before the turns. As an adult and because I understand that a 3turn or mohawk are ways of connecting edges to other edges, knowing what the edges felt likewould have been temendously helpful before learning how to put them together.

I assume that ISI teaches the 3turns and mohawks before edges because many would get bored if all they did for their first four classes was stroking, gliding and edgework, but I think I'd prefer that.

[AshBugg44]

We teach edges along with 3-turns and mohawks.